lol.. no it isnt

 

theres a marquee hire firm top of my street, they bought a house to house immigrant workers in.

 

gangmasters do the same thing, housing their workers in cheap accomodation..

 

could these workers afford a mortgage?.... no

 

could these workers alone pay rent?... with difficulty

 

do these workers live cheaply in subsidised (by their employers) accomodation?...yes.

 

I take part of what I said back then ... by 'subsidised' I thought you were referring to 'subsidised' by the State (which would be wholly untrue). If the employer is subsidising your particular example then fair enough - but as far as I'm concerned ... then the employer is the problem ... not the workers.

 

Anyway ... a few decades ago ... didn't British workers do the same thing by going over to Germany? Working cheaply, accommodated by employers, what goes around comes around. Why! One could almost accuse these British workers of putting Germans out of work.

 

Norma

Edited April 1, 200817 yr by Norma_Snockers

In reference to this thread I just had to post this:

 

 

I see little point in posting my view at the moment since both viewpoints have validity yet are equally over simplistic and have elements of "politik speak" & "untruths" from my experience in relation to where I work & where I live.

I see little point in posting my view at the moment since both viewpoints have validity yet are equally over simplistic and have elements of "politik speak" & "untruths" from my experience in relation to where I work & where I live.

 

well in truth im playing devils advocate somewhat and id agree that the truth is probably somewhere in between what both myself and scott are advocating.

I take part of what I said back then ... by 'subsidised' I thought you were referring to 'subsidised' by the State (which would be wholly untrue). If the employer is subsidising your particular example then fair enough - but as far as I'm concerned ... then the employer is the problem ... not the workers.

 

Anyway ... a few decades ago ... didn't British workers do the same thing by going over to Germany? Working cheaply, accommodated by employers, what goes around comes around. Why! One could almost accuse these British workers of putting Germans out of work.

 

Norma

 

sorry i should have clarified that... yes the employers, not the state.

 

yeah 'auf weidersein pet'... but as i understood it we werent putting germans out of work, we had a surplus of brickies and the germans hadnt enough to cope. we werent undercutting the locals with cheap labour, we were filling a void.

ch4's dispatches last night was very good, highlighting the negative effects this recent mass migration here has caused. not only 'white middle class indiginous whites' but second and third generation blacks/asians are resenting the recent eastern european influx, the biggest in uk history.

 

a million polish here?... thats 1 in 60!!!! thats a huge burden to place on this countries infrastructure BY THE ONES WHO ARE NOT PAYING TAX.

 

if they pay nowt in...they should get nowt out.

I missed the program unfortunately but certainly think mass immigration from particularly Eastern Europe is a bad thing for this country both in demands on the infrastructure of this country (houses, roads, transport network, schools, hospitals) and on our cultural identity, I welcome SOME immigration in the sense that I always welcome high quality hard working overseas professionals coming here but our cultural identity and traditional British way of life is going to be more and more eroded for the indigenous population unless the country says enough is enough and we only let in qualified professionals as opposed to the peasants, gypsys and nomads that seem to be flooding into this country from Eastern Europe.

Edited April 8, 200817 yr by Tim Barnes

I missed the program unfortunately but certainly think mass immigration from particularly Eastern Europe is a bad thing for this country both in demands on the infrastructure of this country (houses, roads, transport network, schools, hospitals) and on our cultural identity, I welcome SOME immigration in the sense that I always welcome high quality hard working overseas professionals coming here but our cultural identity and traditional British way of life is going to be more and more eroded for the indigenous population unless the country says enough is enough and we only let in qualified professionals as opposed to the peasants, gypsys and nomads that seem to be flooding into this country from Eastern Europe.

 

i think most people would agree with you on this.

 

my particular gripe is with people coming into this country and are taking out of the welfare system without ever puting anything into it... why tf should I pay for some foreign bint to have her baby here? (its bad enough paying for our own chavettes which i also resent) or to house people who chose to come here?... why should i work to support them?.

 

but we cannot have an open doors policy, wether we are in europe or not. this country is simply too small.

a million polish here?... thats 1 in 60!!!! thats a huge burden to place on this countries infrastructure BY THE ONES WHO ARE NOT PAYING TAX.

 

if they pay nowt in...they should get nowt out.

 

Who says they aint paying tax...?

 

Who says they're actually "spongeing off the State" either.. A very, very TINY minority (not even in triple figures) are actually claiming Job Seekers Allowance and Housing/Council Tax benefit

 

I'd rather have a million Polish people here working hard and paying taxes and NI (which the vast majority DO...) than a million worthless Chav scum who do nothing but cause sh"t in our society and raise feral brats who themselves go on to lives of crime and cause misery to their respective communities.... Chuck these lousy, pestillant, criminal b/astards out of the country and give their homes to decent Polish workers who probably would actually pay rent and NOT claim housing benefit ... There, simple really.... :P :lol:

 

And no new houses would need to be built either Craig..... :P :lol:

 

Who says they aint paying tax...?

 

Who says they're actually "spongeing off the State" either.. A very, very TINY minority (not even in triple figures) are actually claiming Job Seekers Allowance and Housing/Council Tax benefit

 

I'd rather have a million Polish people here working hard and paying taxes and NI (which the vast majority DO...) than a million worthless Chav scum who do nothing but cause sh"t in our society and raise feral brats who themselves go on to lives of crime and cause misery to their respective communities.... Chuck these lousy, pestillant, criminal b/astards out of the country and give their homes to decent Polish workers who probably would actually pay rent and NOT claim housing benefit ... There, simple really.... :P :lol:

 

And no new houses would need to be built either Craig..... :P :lol:

 

i was criticising the ones who dont... both immigrants and benefit scum.

I take part of what I said back then ... by 'subsidised' I thought you were referring to 'subsidised' by the State (which would be wholly untrue). If the employer is subsidising your particular example then fair enough - but as far as I'm concerned ... then the employer is the problem ... not the workers.

 

Spot on. It actually works in employer's interests to do this.. Then they can get away with paying sh!t wages to their workers. They can claim that they're not paying as high a rate to their migrant staff because of "accommodation costs", which is wholly dishonest, when in fact these "costs" are actually pretty damned low given the fact that the accomodation itself is pretty sub-standard... The truth is, that it works out a hell of a lot cheaper for employers to do this than to pay their workers a decent, living wage...

 

...Frankly this example is going back to the Industrial Revolution period in this country, where hundreds of thousands of Irish workers were totally exploited in this manner by employers.. Employers would bring across these Irish workers, put them up in sub-standard accommodation (for which they took a cut of their employees' wages....) and basically workers had practically bugger all to actually live on...

 

Plantation workers did a similar thing to Indian "coolies" in the Caribbean when they couldn't go around slapping the chains on Africans and herding them onto ships anymore.....

 

No, this example to me very much smacks of a modern version of "Indentured Labour", which was pretty much only one step up from "Slave Labour". If we still had a strong system of unions and workers councils in this country (as they do in MANY European countries which, paradoxically, dont seem to be having anything like the problems dealing with this issue as we seem to...) then examples of exploitation such as this simply would not be tolerated, and things would be better for all concerned...

 

My argument is basically this - immigrant workers are not the problem, it is the exploitation of immigrant workers and the subsequent negative consequences this has on both the immigrant themselves and the indigenous worker that is the real problem..

 

I dislike the "blame the immigrants" attitude that is being fostered by some on this forum, I find it bordering on bloody RACISM in some cases, at the very least it's rather ignorant, xenophobic and prejudicial....

 

i was criticising the ones who dont... both immigrants and benefit scum.

 

Thing is, what you'll find is that a lot of Polish people (and also Czech and Hungarian people..) are actually too proud to claim benefits... Seriously, it's true.... My girlfriend is even so reluctant to go to the GP, even when she's pretty damned ill. I've practically got to force her to go to the Doctor.... :lol:

 

I dont think you can actually even say that Poland or Czech Republic (or indeed Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia or the Baltic States) should be lumped into the "Eastern European" category either... These countries were historically classed as "Central Europe" if you look at any geographical map before 1945.... "Eastern Europe" is, geographically, the likes of Russia, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, Armenia, Ukraine, Georgia, etc, the area of Europe which actually meets up with Asia that some referred to as "Eurasia". Poland is nowhere near this area..... We only have this idea of Poland, Czech Republic, etc as being "Eastern Europe" purely because Stalin nicked them, and declared them all Soviet "satellite states".... Poland is no more "Eastern Europe" than East Germany was in actual reality, and ethnically, the differenced between Poles and Romanians is as great as the ethnic differences between Spanish and Russian, true....

 

The reason why so many Poles come here..? Actually, it's likely to be historical reasons... Britain has a good reputation in Poland, we had alliances with that country, and in the War, we stepped up to the plate and made good on our commitments to Poland when Germany invaded them, declaring war against Hitler and then during the 80s showing support to Walesa's "Solidarity" movement which stood against The Soviet Army... Considering what Germany and Russia did to them in the past 60-odd years, would YOU as a young Pole particularly want to live or work in Germany or Russia....? Or would you go to the country which declared itself your historical friend and ally...?

 

I thought it'd be good to give my input into this thread. I live on the border of Hackney/Tower Hamlets. The two most deprived wards in the country I believe? Huge number of Poles, other Eastern Europeans and other immigrants living here. I hear Polish pretty much everytime I go down the street now so if anyone can talk about the 'effect' these people are having it is I. Tbh all I see is a lot of ignorance and stupidity in this thread on the behalf of two posters in particular.

 

Strain on public services? I do not see it! The tube and buses work perfectly fine and there is no issue here. Health too, access to hospitals remains the same. As for crime, how bloody ridiculous. The vast majority of Poles are polite, law abiding individuals. Of all the Poles I know the majority have better manners than us 'English' folk! These are the people giving up seats to the elderly/disabled on the bus! Going further up into crime 'proper' and well again it isn't Polish people you should be vilifying/looking to blame. It's second generation migrants from African/Caribbean/SE Asia who are committing/taking part in crime/gang crime more and more. These are the people disenfranchised most from society. We focus so intently on Poles, blaming them and it's like wrong. A group vilified because they're the 'new' ethnic group, just the same as the Huguenots, Jewish, Carribean and Bengalis through time. Be it now be it 500 years ago history truly does repeat itself.

 

People here talk through presumptions, rumour and idiocy and something they don't live. I'm not saying you need to live in London to speak affluently on this but for God's sake, stop with the quoting of the Murdoch media hymn sheet!

 

 

I thought it'd be good to give my input into this thread. I live on the border of Hackney/Tower Hamlets. The two most deprived wards in the country I believe? Huge number of Poles, other Eastern Europeans and other immigrants living here. I hear Polish pretty much everytime I go down the street now so if anyone can talk about the 'effect' these people are having it is I. Tbh all I see is a lot of ignorance and stupidity in this thread on the behalf of two posters in particular.

 

Strain on public services? I do not see it! The tube and buses work perfectly fine and there is no issue here. Health too, access to hospitals remains the same. As for crime, how bloody ridiculous. The vast majority of Poles are polite, law abiding individuals. Of all the Poles I know the majority have better manners than us 'English' folk! These are the people giving up seats to the elderly/disabled on the bus! Going further up into crime 'proper' and well again it isn't Polish people you should be vilifying/looking to blame. It's second generation migrants from African/Caribbean/SE Asia who are committing/taking part in crime/gang crime more and more. These are the people disenfranchised most from society. We focus so intently on Poles, blaming them and it's like wrong. A group vilified because they're the 'new' ethnic group, just the same as the Huguenots, Jewish, Carribean and Bengalis through time. Be it now be it 500 years ago history truly does repeat itself.

 

People here talk through presumptions, rumour and idiocy and something they don't live. I'm not saying you need to live in London to speak affluently on this but for God's sake, stop with the quoting of the Murdoch media hymn sheet!

 

 

i do NOT read any paper by murdoch or anyone else, i get all my info off the bbc, who i regard as the best place to get a balanced view.

 

you dont see the strain on the infrastructure?... how tf can you increase the countries population by 1/60th WITHOUT putting a strain on the infrastructure?... go talk to the councils in the south east, kent in particular that are struggling to cope with the demand on housing. go to the hospitals and schools in places like cambridgeshire where they ARE struggling to cope with the extra pressure put on them by immigration. come to the school where i work, where theres 20 fcukin languages being spoke... out of 920 pupils! does the school get extra funding (and whod pay for that? <_< ) to pay for the army of translators? do you or the oh so accommodating grimly really think that the low paid parents cover that let alone the income supplements?.... sod off!

 

for every decent, hard working immigrant theres another who are draining the economy.

 

taxpayers are paying way too much to support cretins who do not deserve it... be it feckless chav baby machine or johnny foreigner , both cases are taking the p*** and should NOT be supported by the hard working people indiginous or foreign.

and the bottom line is.... THE COUNTRY CANNOT COPE WITH MASS POPULATION INCREASE.

I thought it'd be good to give my input into this thread. I live on the border of Hackney/Tower Hamlets. The two most deprived wards in the country I believe? Huge number of Poles, other Eastern Europeans and other immigrants living here. I hear Polish pretty much everytime I go down the street now so if anyone can talk about the 'effect' these people are having it is I. Tbh all I see is a lot of ignorance and stupidity in this thread on the behalf of two posters in particular.

 

Strain on public services? I do not see it! The tube and buses work perfectly fine and there is no issue here. Health too, access to hospitals remains the same. As for crime, how bloody ridiculous. The vast majority of Poles are polite, law abiding individuals. Of all the Poles I know the majority have better manners than us 'English' folk! These are the people giving up seats to the elderly/disabled on the bus! Going further up into crime 'proper' and well again it isn't Polish people you should be vilifying/looking to blame. It's second generation migrants from African/Caribbean/SE Asia who are committing/taking part in crime/gang crime more and more. These are the people disenfranchised most from society. We focus so intently on Poles, blaming them and it's like wrong. A group vilified because they're the 'new' ethnic group, just the same as the Huguenots, Jewish, Carribean and Bengalis through time. Be it now be it 500 years ago history truly does repeat itself.

People here talk through presumptions, rumour and idiocy and something they don't live. I'm not saying you need to live in London to speak affluently on this but for God's sake, stop with the quoting of the Murdoch media hymn sheet!

 

Hear Hear Jake... I used to live in Old 'Ackney as well mate... :cheer: I was more the central area, where the Hackney Central overground station is.. I had not ONE JOT of problems with the Asian, Bengali, Greek, Turkish or Afro/Caribbean folks who lived there, and I used to go around dressed fully Goth at around 3 or 4am!!!! :lol: :lol: Nope, the ONLY problems I've had associated with being a Goth have come from, you guessed it, the White Chavs/Gooners (Arsenal Supporters) who populate (infest) the Holloway/Highbury/Angel area... :lol: :lol:

 

I totally agree with the part emboldened.. We just go around looking to blame "the other" for the sh!t that is caused in society mainly by the white ruling classes, you wanna know what's fukked up the country, look no further than the Houses of fukkin' Parliament if you ask me..... <_<

 

Haha, Hackney Central is 10 minutes on the bus from me!

 

Though Hackney is consistently being lauded as a terrible place, tbh I wouldn't live anywhere else. The mixes of creeds and colours. The variety of cultures and tbh the general harmony. It's unlike anywhere else. It's a shame we never hear anything about that...

 

The white middle classes just love to presume and blame from their 'serious' tabloid papers and never experience/come into contact with the very things they are blaming. Perhaps it comes down to that common psychological theory: 'you suppress/vilify anything that you do not know/understand...

Haha, Hackney Central is 10 minutes on the bus from me!

 

Though Hackney is consistently being lauded as a terrible place, tbh I wouldn't live anywhere else. The mixes of creeds and colours. The variety of cultures and tbh the general harmony. It's unlike anywhere else. It's a shame we never hear anything about that...

 

The white middle classes just love to presume and blame from their 'serious' tabloid papers and never experience/come into contact with the very things they are blaming. Perhaps it comes down to that common psychological theory: 'you suppress/vilify anything that you do not know/understand...

 

but i could turn that back on you and suggest that city boys used to multiculturalism dont understand the majority of 'non city' dwellers who still live in 'merrye olde englande'.

 

oh look.... a division that powel predicted! :lol:

I think the immigration problem is just a cover-up by Labour for their failings.

I think the immigration problem is just a cover-up by Labour for their failings.

 

and how do you reach that conclusion?.... please, this is perspectives where we want to debate issues not post trite 1 liners, which all of your posts seem to be. feel free to post here by all means, just support some of your points.

Haha, Hackney Central is 10 minutes on the bus from me!

 

Though Hackney is consistently being lauded as a terrible place, tbh I wouldn't live anywhere else. The mixes of creeds and colours. The variety of cultures and tbh the general harmony. It's unlike anywhere else. It's a shame we never hear anything about that...

 

I don't really have much to say about the real issue at hand, but I just wanted to say I totally agree with you! I live close to Stamford Hill/Seven Sisters area of Hackney, and I couldn't imagine living anywhere else. I have no trouble getting to college on the tube or by bus, I've never been attacked or mugged (although admittedly I have been followed), and I've not had a problem getting a job. Not a single bit. I could sit here and complain all day about immigrants coming in and taking all my job oppertunities away from me, but that would be wrong of me. If my employer thinks its ok to pay me a very low wage because he has a young, Polish girl working for the same amount, who do I blame? My employer, obviously. Business owners are taking advantage on immigrants because they don't know any better. If you have a problem with it, you do something about it, you dont just sit on your ass and blame the people that really have no control over the situation. I didn't like the fact that I was being paid £3.05 an hour at my old job, so I left. I wish I knew more on how to make it more clear to other girls how little my former employer paid, but unfortunately I'm only one voice.

I've noticed the increase of European immigrants in the area that I live in, and honestly? I haven't noticed any differences, and I live right in the center of Tottenham, Hackney and Haringey boroughs. I can only speak from exprience, and I don't see how our current immigrant situation has effected where I live. I suppose I might be a little bit bias on this whole issue because my parents migrated here from Cyprus, but whatever, they're hardworking, tax paying, honest people.