I'm not going to 'admit' (the shame of it!) that I don't 'get' Goldfrapp. I'm going to say that I only have half of their catalogue, and, like many others (and also unlike a fair few) I prefer Supernature to Seventh Tree. It doesn't have to mean I don't 'get' them as a band. Whats to 'get' anyway? Music is all about your own interpretation.

 

Well mate, I put it to you that if you DID listen to Goldfrapp's entire back catalogue (preferably in album order...), then you wouldn't come on here making such wildly innaccurate comparisons and statements about Alison and Will's music.... The facts are, they did a Pop Album, because they wanted to, then they felt that it wasn't for them, went on an entirely different path and wilfully did something that was non-Pop, again, because they wanted to ... I know that 'artistic integrity' is probably a a concept that you scoff rather ignorantly at, given the types of acts which are your normal listen (mainly because precious few of the acts you listen to would even be able to SAY the words, let alone understand the concept....), but Goldfrapp are a band who very much define themselves on this concept... They do things the way they do because they want to....

Are you not able to have intellectual debate with me without resorting to such low, petty, unnecessary blows such as 'artistic integrity is probably a concept you scoff ignorantly at' etc? Please, have some respect for my outlook if only because it makes you look arrogant saying such things without the evidence to back it up. Yes, I listen to popular female singers who make music which charts. Wow, I must be some thick dimwit incapable of making a judgement about their artistry. Yes, that's right.

 

My god, you're effectively telling me I'm completely close-minded with my choice of music - why don't you open your mind to the possibility that perhaps I take these things into account? Perhaps when I'm thinking about an artist or their music, I do actually look to see whether they write, whether they co-produce, where they go to record? Who says my favourite artists don't have artistic integrity? Please! Let's look at just the Top 5 of my latest chart:

 

1. Natasha Bedingfield. Writes her own music; seven of the eight UK singles she has released to date feature a main writing credit from her. Made it big in the US by putting in the work and spending months on end touring before releasing her debut single and album, unlike for example Leona where who got instant success with the backing of Simon Cowell and Sony BMG. Definitely an artist.

 

2. Lady GaGa. Too early to say whether she has 'artistic integrity' or not, but she's in demand - having been asked by both Darkchild and Britney Spears to contribute lyrics to their latest projects. Also built up a name for herself by becoming a favourite on the New York gay scene until she caught the attention of label bosses. An incredibly unique live performer on top of that.

 

3. Namie Amuro. Again, writes her own music, but for me her artistic integrity comes from the fact that in 2000, at the extreme height of her popularity in Japan, she herself took the huge decision to complete change her musical output from pop to an urban-dance sound, resulting in her fanbase reducing by about 80% and losing a massive amount of sales; it's not until this year that, by sticking with the sound she really wanted to go with herself rather than the bubblegum pop her label favoured, she has managed to win back legions of fans, to the point that she now has the biggest opening-week sales of any female artist this year in Japan. She's put the work in and stuck at it, and it's paid off.

 

4. Jennifer Hudson. An undoubted talent in the vocal stakes, she also writes and acts (the latter very well in my opinion) and received rave reviews in her role as Carrie's assistant in the recent Sex & The City movie. Perhaps more importantly she won awards at the Grammys for her role in Dreamgirls, nearly every single critic noting that she considerably outshone the intended star of that film, Beyonce. Certainly a brilliant vocal talent and a true R&B/soul artist.

 

5. Flo Rida. Perhaps not the best example of artistry, but he has at least re-ignited interest in the Hip-Hop genre of late, though I won't claim he's any great talent.

 

I could go on, but I won't and I don't feel like I need to justify myself to you. You can carry on with your constant, tiresome digs at my 'limited' music taste if you like, but if you really think that just because the artists whose music I indulge in are female and pretty, they must be talentless bints without artistic integrity, then more fool you.

 

And for the final time, that bloody Kylie comparison, which I now regret deeply for the sheer earache it's caused me in this thread, was ONLY intended to point out that audiences go to concerts without prior knowledge of an entire back catalogue. That is ALL, whether it's the right thing to do or not.

5. Flo Rida. Perhaps not the best example of artistry, but he has at least re-ignited interest in the Hip-Hop genre of late, though I won't claim he's any great talent.

 

Flo Rida?!?!?! whats he got to do with this argument???

 

 

Acutally, I've been listening a lot to a band called I AM X... Former Sneaker Pimp Chris Corner's band who do this whole Glam/Electro/Cyber hybrid thing marvellously well, certainly a lot better than Goldfrapp managed on "Supernature" IMO, if Goldfrapp had followed up "Black Cherry" with an album of the quality of I AM X's "The Alternative", then that really would've been something... You should check out I AM X, they're really good, but of course dont get the Press hype or anything like the success they deserve (sort of like Client in that respect...).

 

I havent got anything by I AM X - but yeah the sneaker pimps had some great tunes - 6 underground is a great tune (very slinky and very cool) and a pity that no body cared much for them when the female singer left - think she was called kelli ann - left and became slightly less trip-hop (Splinter) - tho they probs ended up like jesus jones in america (tho without the corporate business lunches :lol: )

 

err...I think you'll find Goldfrapp were selling quite a few records before 2005 - they'd had worldwide success way before this, a colossal cult following the world over and were 'the' name on everyone who mattered's lips for the first two albums.

 

You're lumping Goldfrapp in with your usual standard fare pop band - and this they most certainly are not. Never have been, never will be. This 'artistic license' you talk about is as if Kylie had gone off and been 'allowed' to make an album that doesn't sound like tatty old Roisin Murphy b-sides. Goldfrapp are on Mute - in fact, I'd go far as to say they're probably the jewel in Mute's crown - and have been since Black Cherry... Mute are not your average label - they encourage diversity, outlandish individuality, they champion off-the-wall leftfield music.

 

and thankfully EMI let them do what they do without too much interference,

 

btw talking about Mute here is Laibach doing their version of hair-metal classic The Final Countdown....

 

 

which sounds like Erasure remixing the Army of Lovers....so would you regard them as a "pop group" just like McFly and the Jonas Bros too...tho if its Erasure remixing the Army of Lovers surely it should be seen as a big gay disco thing :lol:

 

Laibach - Sympathy for the devil (list it with ananarama perhaps :lol: woooooooooh woooooooogh)

 

Laibach - Life is Life (to be listed with Scooter?!?)

 

Rammstein "Stripped" (mmm does anybody need to be told of the connection here!!!)

 

 

 

Well, this just shows that you really know not a lot about Goldfrapp at all mate... They certainly were pretty damn well known before 2005... "Black Cherry" was a successful album and went UK Platinum, so not exactly "unknowns" were they....?

 

You know, your area of expertise just seems to be in the mainstream/manufactured pop area... Goldfrapp is neither of these things

I'm just wondering why you're making such a comparison at all mate.... It's a bit like comparing U2 to Iron Maiden don't you think....? I mean, both bands play what can loosely be defined as "Guitar Rock", they both put on large Stadium concerts, but really, what the hell else do they have in common - musically NOTHING, chalk and cheese mate... Ditto with Kylie and Goldfrapp.. Both blonde singers doing electronic/synthy-based stuff.. But, erm, that's it.... Different styles, different approaches, different attitudes, just different full stop.....

 

exactly -

and if they do sound similar its because Goldfrapp leads and others follow

 

and obv a manufactured pop act would probably want to copy Goldfrapp's styles (tho most will be wanting timbaland's number :lol: ) as obv cheese doesnt sell these days (pop cheese and holiday hits rather than AATW's hardcore dance :lol:) as people are trying endlessly to obtain a certain level of hipster coolness and so manufactured pop have to adapt to survive and will have appropiated the trends and styles of more boho, more leftfield, more cool acts to there own uses - as those acts have become popular (rather than being pop!ular) thanks to all the mejjjja tarts scouting for the latest cool stuff that filters thru blogs, radio one, nick grimshaw etc etc and then down onward ever becoming populaized and commercial until it implodes

btw i've just come back from reading this in the Iglu & Hartly thread...

 

Guardian biography

 

Iglu & Hartly are the missing link between the boorish funk-rock of Red Hot Chili Peppers and the cosmic synth-pop of Flaming Lips: they're Flaming Chili Peppers, they're Red Hot Lips, they're five Kiedis-ripped hunks from Los Angeles who caused a bit of a commotion at this year's SXSW festival, and they still haven't got a long-term, worldwide record deal. Despite their on-paper jarring fusion of opposites, somehow their songs work: great big synthed-up rock anthems with nasal semi-sung, semi-rapped vocals that have been described as "like Wayne Coyne producing Van Halen and letting the Beastie Boys front the band". It's pop-rap or hip-pop - no, it's crunked-up MOR metal! - and somebody obviously believes in them because they're currently holed up in a recording studio working on their debut album with Mark Needham (the Killers, Bloc Party, Fleetwood Mac) trying to amass as many massive dance-rock anthems as they can before another somebody decides to invent the term "indie yacht-rock".

 

so going by this...if the Flaming Lips are a cosmic synth-pop band - they must sound exactly like goldfrapp circa supernature - true??? :lol: :lol:

 

]

exactly -

and if they do sound similar its because Goldfrapp leads and others follow

 

and obv a manufactured pop act would probably want to copy Goldfrapp's styles (tho most will be wanting timbaland's number :lol: ) as obv cheese doesnt sell these days (pop cheese and holiday hits rather than AATW's hardcore dance :lol:) as people are trying endlessly to obtain a certain level of hipster coolness

 

That's what it all boils down to... There really is nothing worse than talentless mainstream hacks taking bits off the more 'underground' scene and sanitizing them because they really have no ideas of their own to show us.... Kylie's been cribbing notes off Ladytron and Client no doubt as well....

 

Course it doesn't just happen in the Pop genre, look at all these bloody "indie" or "alternative" bands who do the same thing....

 

Flo Rida?!?!?! whats he got to do with this argument???

 

Kinda my thoughts to be honest... But Jark is right about one thing, he really IS no great "talent".... Not exactly in the league of Chuck D, Ice Cube or Ice-T really is it... Hell, not even in Eminem's league.... :lol: :lol:

 

And I certainly don't class the likes of Natasha Bedingfield as being a "leader"or any kind of particularly good "artist" either..... Absolutely, offensively BLAND MOR piffle to these ears...... :rolleyes: I care not if she writes her own material or not.. Might improve her material considerably if she actually got a professional (female) lyricist or songwriter to help her out a bit..... :lol:

 

TBH I think Jark shot himself in the foot there with his defence of his current top 5.

 

As for Namie, her pop career was on the slide well before she started the jump to a more dance orientated sound. Which was becoming more prevalent in Japan around the millennium anyway. And as for writing her own stuff - Pah! She has co-written one song on her last two albums.

 

Don't get me started on Natasha Bedingfield.

Edited August 7, 200816 yr by grebo69

I really don't think I did, actually. It all comes down to taste though...

 

And Namie's switch to hip-pop/dance caused huge controversy; it wasn't until Play in 2007 that she won the media, the critics and the fans back.

Don't get me started on Natasha Bedingfield.

 

Hopefully she will get pregnent like for ever :lol: and never bother anyone again (well i guess apart from ending up presenting some cheapo beauty programme about feet on BBC Three :lol: )

I really don't think I did, actually. It all comes down to taste though...

 

And Namie's switch to hip-pop/dance caused huge controversy; it wasn't until Play in 2007 that she won the media, the critics and the fans back.

She was on the wane with her pop career as Utada Hikaru and Morning Musume were wiping the floor with her so it was either change change her style or it was down the dumper.

That was why she changed. The Japanese pop market can be very fickle at times. How do I know? Because I lived there from 1993 -1995 and 1996-2002!

 

Don't get me wrong though - I love Namie. Concentration 20 was a great album and this was a better song than Can you Celebrate

 

Edited August 9, 200816 yr by grebo69