It isn't NEAR-snobbery, it IS snobbery.

 

Oh, so it's "snobbery" of me to expect people to actually SHUT THE FUKK UP AND LISTEN TO THE MUSIC at a concert then is it....? If "Seventh Tree" gets rid of these 'false fans'

who clearly have absolutely no respect for either Alison or the music (which was bloody obvious from the gig I went to a few years back), then I'm all for it, she's doing what Kurt Cobain did with "In Utero" - getting rid of the bandwagon jumpers who have no respect - "plankton" as he put it - going back to what is real about the band and the music, 'substance', not artifice... If that makes me a snob, then I put my hand up to that.. Completely.... As you have admitted you aint heard all Goldfrapp's stuff, so you're not really qualified to assess what kind of band they are, or what their 'best album' is...

 

..I've been into Goldfrapp since "Felt Mountain", so my experience judges that to be the best album, with "Black Cherry" in second place....

No, Grimly, it's snobbery to suggest as you all do that anybody who prefers Supernature is of inferior taste.

If this IS the case as you say then how ridiculous on their behalf. What a clinical and cold approach to music. It makes them somewhat staged no? Why would any staunch 'Supernature' fans bother in the first place with this album considering how musically at odds the two are.

 

Cynical?? Bollocks.. Was Kurt Cobain 'cynical' for doing "In Utero" then...? Like hell... He just didn't like what his band became with "Nevermind" so did something completely different which he felt defined them more as a band, and "In Utero" did.. Nirvana were never some bubblegum 'Pop Group', which is sure how "Nevermind" made them sound in many of the tracks, which I put down mainly to Butch Vig's rather over-rated production tbh.. So similarly, Goldfrapp no longer wish to be defined as a band by "Supernature", and so, like Kurt put one or two more 'radio-friendly' tracks (which weren't really, they were just a bit less brutal than the rest of the album.....) on "In Utero", Goldfrapp have thrown a similar bone...

 

Similarly, Amy Lee did a totally different sort of Evanescence album (well, only 'different' in attitude to anyone who's never heard "Origin" or the early demos that is... For those of us who have, "The Open Door" represents a far more logical progression of the band than "Fallen" ever did....)

No, Grimly, it's snobbery to suggest as you all do that anybody who prefers Supernature is of inferior taste.

 

You do that yourself mate by always carping on about the sales and the chart postions, as if that's the most important thing (it's not), the fact that you give anything Cowell or Walsh force-feeds us the time of day just speaks volumes mate..... You dont seem to understand how the "artist" approaches music, only how the artisan does so (and there is a difference), your dismissive posts on Alison and Will's attitude towards their music kinda proves your inverted snobbery.. For a true artist, it is preferable to have a few thousand fanatical fans who will stick by them, rather than a few million fly-by-nighters who don't really get them and will just move on.... Kurt Cobain had to battle with this for years when he was alive... He wanted to make music only for people who really loved his music....

 

Shockingly enough, this is a Goldfrapp thread, not a bloody Kurt Cobain thread, so let's keep what I've said in context by only applying it to Goldfrapp, yes? I have not 'harped on' in the slightest, but I have brought up on a few occassions how Happiness was poor choice of single and will probably flop (and it subsequently did). Now whether or not it flops makes no difference to my enjoyment of the music (not that there was any anyway, because Happiness is diabolical), but to the majority of record labels a flop single can do no end of damage to a project; so many of the artists I follow have released one or two underperforming singles and following on from that have had to abandon the project or release a half-arsed download-only single with a live video or whatever...now perhaps I was misinformed when applying this to Goldfrapp, because I didn't know that Mute are, as you have tried to convince me, a label who care not about sales or profits but who instead nurture their artists. I have no way of knowing how accurate a statement that is, but I'm only being realistic here: the majority of the time in the music industry it's as simple as 'you flop, you drop'.

 

Please do not keep feeling the need to resort to taking low personal blows at my taste, either; it only reflects badly on you. I give anything Cowell 'force-feeds us' the 'time of day' do I? Umm, who exactly? To my knowledge I give Leona Lewis a few listens from time to time (a fanatic I am not) - what evidence was that statement really built on? What do you really know about my music tastes? Let's see if that is another topic on which you can lecture me, my dear superior man.

 

And for the record, yes, I love Madonna's new album and I'm certainly proud to tell you that; it's perfect beat-tinged pop and I won't be condemned by the likes of a dreadfully snobbish bunch of music fans who believe their taste to be superior to that of any other, more pop-orientated poster.

 

Checking out the excellent metacritic.com site for average ratings of albums of 2008 so far Maximum score 100 (Number of Reviews) with a minimum of 20 reviews of major news & music papers around the world:

 

87 Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds (29)

87 Robyn (24)

85 Portishead (34)

82 Vampire Weekend (38)

82 Erykah Badu (24)

80 British Sea Power (31)

79 Los Campesinos! (24)

79 R.E.M. (32)

78 Goldfrapp (31)

78 Hot Chip (38)

77 The Black Keys (29)

76 Gnarls Barkley (33)

75 The Raconteurs (22)

75 Foals (25)

70 Panic At The Disco (22)

67 Mariah Carey (26)

66 Madonna (26)

65 Ashlee Simpson (21)

65 Kylie Minogue (24)

65 The Kooks (21)

63 Leona Lewis (21)

61 Jack Johnson (27)

61 Janet Jackson (21)

 

 

Well like it or not mine, Russ & Scott's views seem to be more in tune with music critics/journalists. I certainly agree that the Robyn album is well worth it's excellent rating, just as Britney Spears' Blackout album received last year.

Shockingly enough, this is a Goldfrapp thread, not a bloody Kurt Cobain thread, so let's keep what I've said in context by only applying it to Goldfrapp, yes? I have not 'harped on' in the slightest, but I have brought up on a few occassions how Happiness was poor choice of single and will probably flop (and it subsequently did). Now whether or not it flops makes no difference to my enjoyment of the music (not that there was any anyway, because Happiness is diabolical), but to the majority of record labels a flop single can do no end of damage to a project; so many of the artists I follow have released one or two underperforming singles and following on from that have had to abandon the project or release a half-arsed download-only single with a live video or whatever...now perhaps I was misinformed when applying this to Goldfrapp, because I didn't know that Mute are, as you have tried to convince me, a label who care not about sales or profits but who instead nurture their artists. I have no way of knowing how accurate a statement that is, but I'm only being realistic here: the majority of the time in the music industry it's as simple as 'you flop, you drop'.

 

Please do not keep feeling the need to resort to taking low personal blows at my taste, either; it only reflects badly on you. I give anything Cowell 'force-feeds us' the 'time of day' do I? Umm, who exactly? To my knowledge I give Leona Lewis a few listens from time to time (a fanatic I am not) - what evidence was that statement really built on? What do you really know about my music tastes? Let's see if that is another topic on which you can lecture me, my dear superior man.

 

I seem to recall you voted in favour of a Leona Lewis forum and against a Goldfrapp one.... The case for the prosecution rests m'lud..... :P :lol:

 

I was comparing the change of direction Goldfrapp took to the change of direction that Nirvana took, a fair comparison I'd say.. Both artists did something chose to do something less commercial... And besides, I was responding more to the rather idiotic post another person made about Alison being "cynical".....

 

And I'm not just trying to convince you, Mute are a label that are more about the artist than chart placings.. Depeche Mode's stuff aint exactly 'commercial' these days (it does well enough though, and DM are one of the artists who established Mute as a major player anyway..), but if they've no problems with supporting DM, I cant see them having a problem with Goldfrapp... As I have said REPEATEDLY, why not have a gander at their artist roster sometime and educate yourself as to what they're about... You wont see anything like as high a sh"t quota as the likes of EMI or Sony....

 

Goldfrapp have suffered somewhat through having their album leak on the Internet months before it was released, hardly their fault (and it's probably for that reason that it has been priced low in the shops, like DUH, 2+2=4 mate).... Now, they could have just totally gone back to the drawing board and abandoned the whole thing and wrote a completely NEW album, but they had faith in it... Which I feel they were right to have....

I consider Goldfrapp to be in my top 10 favourite acts ever...

 

I only really heard the singles off 'Black Cherry' and it wasn't until the 'Supernature' era that I owned anything by them, when I bought all three of their albums within the space of 10 days. It was quite clear from the beginning that 'Felt Mountain' was the best of the three, with 'Black Cherry' second and 'Supernature' third, but I think all three are cracking albums, all wonderfully different but all wonderfully fantastic at the same time. I don't particularly care if it goes away from their roots or whatever and I know there are a couple of duff songs on it but it's most certainly not a creative dead-end, it's still a better album than anything similar by anyone who's tried to copy or use the same style...

 

I'm not so much of a fan of 'Seventh Tree' though. It's a good album, but I think I'd rate it at 6.5/10 compared to 9, 8 & 7.5 for their first three albums. There are a few cracking songs on it; 'Clowns', 'Cologne Cerrone Houdini', 'Eat Yourself' being notable examples as well as this years finest single so far and my favourite ever Goldfrapp track 'A & E', but I think overall it tails off in places and can be a bit bland. I don't believe anything on 'Supernature' was as bad as 'Happiness', apart from maybe 'Fly Me Away' which I never really liked...

 

I also find it quite amusing that ThisIsPop's beloved and often mentioned in order to put forward an argument Metacritic rates 'Supernature' higher than both 'Black Cherry' and 'Seventh Tree'. :lol:

I also find it quite amusing that ThisIsPop's beloved and often mentioned in order to put forward an argument Metacritic rates 'Supernature' higher than both 'Black Cherry' and 'Seventh Tree'. :lol:

 

Good thing I very rarely listen to Music Journalists.... :lol: :lol:

 

Cynical?? Bollocks.. Was Kurt Cobain 'cynical' for doing "In Utero" then...? Like hell... He just didn't like what his band became with "Nevermind" so did something completely different which he felt defined them more as a band, and "In Utero" did.. Nirvana were never some bubblegum 'Pop Group', which is sure how "Nevermind" made them sound in many of the tracks, which I put down mainly to Butch Vig's rather over-rated production tbh.. So similarly, Goldfrapp no longer wish to be defined as a band by "Supernature", and so, like Kurt put one or two more 'radio-friendly' tracks (which weren't really, they were just a bit less brutal than the rest of the album.....) on "In Utero", Goldfrapp have thrown a similar bone...

 

Similarly, Amy Lee did a totally different sort of Evanescence album (well, only 'different' in attitude to anyone who's never heard "Origin" or the early demos that is... For those of us who have, "The Open Door" represents a far more logical progression of the band than "Fallen" ever did....)

You have completely misread what I said. I said 'clinical' not 'cynical'. And it is a clinical approach to music. Music shouldn't be about wishing to appear as something; which is what I believe Goldfrapp wanted with this album. It should be about meaning and relevance. Two qualities 'Seventh Tree' lacks with its heavy superficial qualities.

I seem to recall you voted in favour of a Leona Lewis forum and against a Goldfrapp one.... The case for the prosecution rests m'lud..... :P :lol:

 

I was comparing the change of direction Goldfrapp took to the change of direction that Nirvana took, a fair comparison I'd say.. Both artists did something chose to do something less commercial... And besides, I was responding more to the rather idiotic post another person made about Alison being "cynical".....

 

And I'm not just trying to convince you, Mute are a label that are more about the artist than chart placings.. Depeche Mode's stuff aint exactly 'commercial' these days (it does well enough though, and DM are one of the artists who established Mute as a major player anyway..), but if they've no problems with supporting DM, I cant see them having a problem with Goldfrapp... As I have said REPEATEDLY, why not have a gander at their artist roster sometime and educate yourself as to what they're about... You wont see anything like as high a sh"t quota as the likes of EMI or Sony....

 

Goldfrapp have suffered somewhat through having their album leak on the Internet months before it was released, hardly their fault (and it's probably for that reason that it has been priced low in the shops, like DUH, 2+2=4 mate).... Now, they could have just totally gone back to the drawing board and abandoned the whole thing and wrote a completely NEW album, but they had faith in it... Which I feel they were right to have....

Excuse me, I never said 'CYNICAL', I said 'CLINICAL'. Read what the hell people say before you go calling their posts idiotic. Somewhat ironic isn't it?

 

As for Mute, yes their roster is filled with non-commercial acts. Several of whom I love dearly (M83 for example of late). BUT the difference between M83 and Goldfrapp is that Mute pour huge amounts of money into the latter and next to nothing in the former. Advertising campaigns, putting out CDS, CDM and 7"s for each of their releases, the cost of putting the album out there itself. With the scale Goldfrapp were that doesn't cost pennies does it? Mute cannot bankrupt/make huge loses and it be okay just because 'they care about the artist' (something I do not question btw). Money speaks somewhere along the chain...

Ok lets just end the arguing its not getting anyone anywhere, either way sorry if this has been posted but Seventh Tree is the 23rd best selling album of the year so far :D:

23 Seventh Tree - Goldfrapp 125,000

However after two singles i thought it would have been far more than that sales, hopefully CG can help it along a bit.

Ok lets just end the arguing its not getting anyone anywhere, either way sorry if this has been posted but Seventh Tree is the 23rd best selling album of the year so far :D:

23 Seventh Tree - Goldfrapp 125,000

However after two singles i thought it would have been far more than that sales, hopefully CG can help it along a bit.

 

Considering the entire album leaked a full three months before its actual release I reckon it must have cost them nearly half their sales.

 

Just look how poorly Radiohead's latest album has sold compared to their previous albums, albeit because they controlled/manufactured their own pay what you want for the privilege of music fans getting it early via downloads.

I suppose but still you always hope for a bit more than that after two singles.

I have to pick up on the Japanese pop star recommendation - Japanese pop is the most sugary, twee and generally awful music I have ever heard. I actually Googled the act mentioned and, yes.... it's awful.

 

And Jark... Joss Stone? You honestly think I could feel aurally enlightened by lisening to a Joss Stone album? I heard her first one - it's about as entertaining as drinking a pint glass of lukewarm vomit. I suggest a hearty dose of Aretha Franklin, Dusty Springfield, Elizabeth Fraser, early Annie Lennox.... all traces of Joss Stone would almost surely be washed away.ffectations, no big PR machine... just good, honest, old fashioned real talent - without any hint of karaoke. Or faux Americaaaan accents.

 

Caw @ this thread.

Ok lets just end the arguing its not getting anyone anywhere, either way sorry if this has been posted but Seventh Tree is the 23rd best selling album of the year so far :D:

23 Seventh Tree - Goldfrapp 125,000

However after two singles i thought it would have been far more than that sales, hopefully CG can help it along a bit.

I don't percieve there to be any arguing. Rather a debating of views.

 

"Please do not keep feeling the need to resort to taking low personal blows at my taste"/"You honestly think I could feel aurally enlightened by lisening to a Joss Stone album? I heard her first one - it's about as entertaining as drinking a pint glass of lukewarm vomit."/"Cynical?? Bollocks."

I think i would count that as arguing or at least sly comments towards eachother when there really is no need for it.

 

I have to pick up on the Japanese pop star recommendation - Japanese pop is the most sugary, twee and generally awful music I have ever heard. I actually Googled the act mentioned and, yes.... it's awful.

 

And Jark... Joss Stone? You honestly think I could feel aurally enlightened by lisening to a Joss Stone album? I heard her first one - it's about as entertaining as drinking a pint glass of lukewarm vomit. I suggest a hearty dose of Aretha Franklin, Dusty Springfield, Elizabeth Fraser, early Annie Lennox.... all traces of Joss Stone would almost surely be washed away.ffectations, no big PR machine... just good, honest, old fashioned real talent - without any hint of karaoke. Or faux Americaaaan accents.

Get over the accent thing, becuase it's just another bloody-minded method of proving, as if it were needed, that your musical snobbery is beyond obscene. Her accent, or her voice as perceived by a close-minded individual such as your own sorry self, impacts on her music in not a single way, and if you think she's mere 'karaoke' then I don't want to burst your bubble because I'd rather you stay secluded. And Utada's music 'twee'? You googled the 'act mentioned' and found her music 'sugary'? The validity of that statement is rather in doubt in my mind.

 

"Please do not keep feeling the need to resort to taking low personal blows at my taste"/"You honestly think I could feel aurally enlightened by lisening to a Joss Stone album? I heard her first one - it's about as entertaining as drinking a pint glass of lukewarm vomit."/"Cynical?? Bollocks."

I think i would count that as arguing or at least sly comments towards eachother when there really is no need for it.

I have gotten no complaints from the plantiffs involved so I see no reason to intervene. People are free to debate as they wish. I personally do not believe anyone has gone too far. The thread is full of mature people who can argue succinctly. It'd be very different if it were practically any thread on this forum.

 

There is no need for you to do your job for me.