What does that have to do with anything? You are just going in circles, posting with no basis.

 

It's got plenty to do with it... An artist can become pretty disgusted with the way some fans behave at gigs, (Kurt Cobain certainly did, Alison and Will probably did as well...), and it will affect how they would approach new material....

 

Artists are a bit like that - sensitive, tempremental. It's kinda what makes them interesting, as opposed to just being Corporate Whores who'll do anything to 'shift units'...

 

As Bill Hicks once said "I want my Rock Stars on stage with a guitar in one hand, a gun in the other..." :lol:

But who has said anywhere in this thread that it's wrong to be mad at the people who only knew the Supernature songs at the concert?

 

Wasn't so much they didn't know the other stuff, it was more they wouldn't shut the hell up, and tutted and sighed, and talked utter sh!te like "Well, that was a bit boring innit..??" or "When they gonna play stuff that we know...?". I've been to see plenty of bands in the past that I've only owned one album by and have been absolutely mad keen to hear the stuff that I didn't have, so I could ask people which albums the songs were on if I liked them (this is way before Youtube and Torrent sites by the way.. ;) )...

 

...But then, I guess I just always had a bit more sodding respect for an artist, and their long-time fans....

 

 

 

Oh ha, I didn't mean it to be a chore at all. :heehee: Bad wording. I get your point but it's not always possible. If you don't have all that much time and obviously want to play other music too it could be months before you get really familiar with all of the older material. I'd like to get into older Mariah but I know that with 2000 songs already on my iTunes it'd take me an absolute age to check out the seven or so albums I'm missing.

 

Oh ha, I didn't mean it to be a chore at all. :heehee: Bad wording. I get your point but it's not always possible. If you don't have all that much time and obviously want to play other music too it could be months before you get really familiar with all of the older material. I'd like to get into older Mariah but I know that with 2000 songs already on my iTunes it'd take me an absolute age to check out the seven or so albums I'm missing.

 

Only 2000? Lightweight.... :P I've got about 100,000 tracks on my hard-drive.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I don't do i-Tunes though (it gets on my t*ts)... I've got Winamp.... :lol:

Well, excuse me all to hell..... You try going to a concert and having some of your favourite songs by that act ruined by a bunch of fukkin' tw@ts jabbering uninteresing sh"te to each other instead of actually LISTENING TO THE BAND!!!!! Bad enough being stuck up in the balcony at a gig, even worse having to deal with dickheads who have scant respect for the artist THEY'VE ACTUALLY PAID TO SEE.... When you hear some idiot declare "Oooh, she's a bit in love with the sound of her own voice in't she" regarding "Utopia" (one of their BEST songs, in fact one of the BEST songs any artist has committed to record IMO..), I DARE YOU to not be a bit pissed off....

 

This is what's happened with Goldfrapp.... Their last album attracted a lot of morons with little or NO KNOWLEDGE of their music beyond that one rather weak album....

 

And this post is directed to you as well Ryan....

 

And, Yeah I damn well DO have a wide musical knowledge base, and I resent being lectured at by somebody who clearly doesn't have as wide a variety as I, CoD and Russ do.. It aint "snobbery", it's just a fact...

But what does that actually have to do with the thread that you've mentioned it SO MUCH?! As far as I've seen it doesn't really have that much relevance to anything that's been said by anyone in this thread, however rightly pissed off you were with it...

 

But surely people like you would have a much wider musical base, it's inevitable. The three of you are in your 30s and your using it against people who aren't even old enough to vote and using your 'superior knowledge' to claim you're right and these people are wrong at all costs. Music taste is about opinion, no one can ever be truly 'right'. Yes, the collective taste of this site is quite frankly awful and yes I often read the multichart or whatever the latest competition is and cringe at the results but it doesn't make the people that contributed wrong, just different, however much I may think the songs they like are c**p.

Edited May 6, 200817 yr by RabbitFurCoat

But surely people like you would have a much wider musical base, it's inevitable. The three of you are in your 30s and your using it against people who aren't even old enough to vote and using your 'superior knowledge' to claim you're right and these people are wrong at all costs. Music taste is about opinion, no one can ever be truly 'right'. Yes, the collective taste of this site is quite frankly awful and yes I often read the multichart or whatever the latest competition is and cringe at the results but it doesn't make the people that contributed wrong, just different, however much I may think the songs they like are c**p.

 

Mate, the reason I, as a 15/16 year old started listening to bands like Black Sabbath, Bowie, Velvet Underground, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, The Doors, etc was because OLDER FANS RECOMMENDED THEM TO ME..... And, I'm glad they did, for example - listening to Sab, Zep, Motorhead, Hawkwind, Sex Pistols, etc, totally enhanced my enjoyment of the likes of Slayer, Megadeth, Metallica, Anthrax (the Metal bands that were kind of around when I was 15/16 Y.O), listening to the Velvets, MC5, The Stooges, Bowie, etc, enhanced my enjoyment of The Cure, Jesus and Mary Chain, The Smiths, New Order, Happy Mondays; the likes Brian Eno, Pink Floyd and Kraftwerk enhanced my enjoyment of Aphex Twin, KLF, The Orb, Orbital ...... See the pattern here... I gave the older generation of fans a bit of credit that they actually knew what they were talking about when they recommended stuff to me, they set me on the right path... Musical lineage, history..... It's TOTALLY important mate, if you have no sense of where an artist comes from, how can you say you really "get" them or the music they make....? So, when CoD goes off mentioning Fairport Convention, he aint doing it to be a snob, he's doing it to actually enhance the listener's potential enjoyment of the new Goldfrapp record.....

 

...And, by the way, it actually works.... There is a GROSS and very apparent misunderstanding of this album and it IS based on a lack of musical history knowledge.....

There's no misunderstanding on my part; whatever Goldfrapp's history, Seventh Tree is in the main a collection of songs which are totally unmemorable and way too floaty to really leave any impact. There are 4 songs I often listen to - A&E, Cologne Cerrone Houdini, Monster Love, and Caravan Girl - and the rest really don't do anything for me. That's not a lack of knowledge re: Goldfrapp's past or anything, I just really can't be doing with the other songs.

There's no misunderstanding on my part; whatever Goldfrapp's history, Seventh Tree is in the main a collection of songs which are totally unmemorable and way too floaty to really leave any impact.

 

You've probably just not listened to it enough times... I used to feel that way about Air... "Insubstantial Floaty French Fluff" was how I described them once.... :lol: Then, all of a sudden, they got a bit.... I dunno, weird... And I saw them in a new light after that.....

 

Also, I absolutely HATED Radiohead's "Kid A" and "Amnesiac" when I first heard them..... But, then, it all made sense after listening to "Hail To The Thief"...... It was like, "Hail..." was what I needed to unlock the door to my understanding of the previous two albums, so now, I see them as a sort of 'Trilogy'..... Whatever... I just got them after that....

 

Sometimes it takes a bit of distance and then going back later.....

Well, excuse me all to hell..... You try going to a concert and having some of your favourite songs by that act ruined by a bunch of fukkin' tw@ts jabbering uninteresing sh"te to each other instead of actually LISTENING TO THE BAND!!!!! Bad enough being stuck up in the balcony at a gig, even worse having to deal with dickheads who have scant respect for the artist THEY'VE ACTUALLY PAID TO SEE.... When you hear some idiot declare "Oooh, she's a bit in love with the sound of her own voice in't she" regarding "Utopia" (one of their BEST songs, in fact one of the BEST songs any artist has committed to record IMO..), I DARE YOU to not be a bit pissed off....

 

This is what's happened with Goldfrapp.... Their last album attracted a lot of morons with little or NO KNOWLEDGE of their music beyond that one rather weak album....

 

And this post is directed to you as well Ryan....

 

And, Yeah I damn well DO have a wide musical knowledge base, and I resent being lectured at by somebody who clearly doesn't have as wide a variety as I, CoD and Russ do.. It aint "snobbery", it's just a fact...

 

Sorry to hear about your concert. But what on earth has that got to do with anyone on here?

 

I'm actually sticking up for Jark, because its always the same THREE people that are such snobs.

 

I could actually see your arguement if the people in question where complaining about Goldfrapp changing direction... But no one has!

 

People have merely said they prefer "Supernature" to the newest album. You could call them "bandwagon" jumpers, if they refused to listen to "Seventh Tree" but as far as i'm aware that isnt the case :mellow: They havent said "oh god i hate the new direction" or something like that.

 

Also you seem to be the only person in this thread throwing out "lectures"...

 

 

Ryan dear, asking Russ to avoid a petty response is like asking our beloved Janft to sing about a topic other than her own love box. Aint gonna happen, basically! :heehee:[/size]

:lol: I know :(

 

But you know, i can so now use a classic RUSS line :o "Oh my, arent you a moderator. Shouldnt you be setting an example?"

 

Well erm, Russ you are the moderator now and your treatment towards others have been nothing short of SNOBBISH :)

 

Tut tut.

Edited May 6, 200817 yr by Ryan

See made me double post :o

Edited May 6, 200817 yr by Ryan

Mate, the reason I, as a 15/16 year old started listening to bands like Black Sabbath, Bowie, Velvet Underground, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, The Doors, etc was because OLDER FANS RECOMMENDED THEM TO ME..... And, I'm glad they did, for example - listening to Sab, Zep, Motorhead, Hawkwind, Sex Pistols, etc, totally enhanced my enjoyment of the likes of Slayer, Megadeth, Metallica, Anthrax (the Metal bands that were kind of around when I was 15/16 Y.O), listening to the Velvets, MC5, The Stooges, Bowie, etc, enhanced my enjoyment of The Cure, Jesus and Mary Chain, The Smiths, New Order, Happy Mondays; the likes Brian Eno, Pink Floyd and Kraftwerk enhanced my enjoyment of Aphex Twin, KLF, The Orb, Orbital ...... See the pattern here... I gave the older generation of fans a bit of credit that they actually knew what they were talking about when they recommended stuff to me, they set me on the right path... Musical lineage, history..... It's TOTALLY important mate, if you have no sense of where an artist comes from, how can you say you really "get" them or the music they make....? So, when CoD goes off mentioning Fairport Convention, he aint doing it to be a snob, he's doing it to actually enhance the listener's potential enjoyment of the new Goldfrapp record.....

 

...And, by the way, it actually works.... There is a GROSS and very apparent misunderstanding of this album and it IS based on a lack of musical history knowledge.....

But the missing link here is that I've listened to these artists I've been 'told' I should have. Joanna Newsom and Kate Bush being two of my favourite artists and all. Buttt 1) why should this impact upon my listening of an album. The album speaks for itself not Newsom. And 2) After being told to listen to Newsom CoD responded to me that 'heaven forbid I should like Newsom'. How did this make any sense to the discussion in hand?

 

We live in very different times. With the internet music is far more accessible. One does not require an older person to introduce. Of course I'm constantly introduced to things but I don't see it as a necessity to increase my enjoyment of an album/understand it more.

 

'Seventh Tree' is poor for a variety of reasons. Lyrically, sonically and aesthetically I find it very off-putting. And yes I do prefer 'Supernature' but that is totally besides the point. An album speaks for itself, not what it followed on from, artists who are similar. I respect your choice to prefer 'Seventh Tree' over 'Supernature', is it unfair to expect the same in reversal?

I'm actually sticking up for Jark, because its always the same THREE people that are such snobs.

 

I could actually see your arguement if the people in question where complaining about Goldfrapp changing direction... But no one has!

 

People have merely said they prefer "Supernature" to the newest album. You could call them "bandwagon" jumpers, if they refused to listen to "Seventh Tree" but as far as i'm aware that isnt the case :mellow: They havent said "oh god i hate the new direction" or something like that.

 

My only real problem with Jark is that he seems a bit too obsessed with the sales, chart and marketing c**p, which, is really NOT important to anyone's actual enjoyment of music.... And the misconception that "Seventh Tree" is a 'failure' is just that - a misconception.... If the album has "failed" to set the world on fire in terms of "sales", dont people think that maybe that might have summat to do with the album leaking months before release...? All the markerting expenditure in the world aint gonna do jack-sh!t about that... Better if they'd just done a Radiohead or NIN really, put it out on the Net..... Radiohead made a fair bit of dough out of their release of "In Rainbows" over the net, considerably MORE than they did with a physical release.....

 

All that marketing stuff has done is to just make music a throwaway commodity, something I don't believe that the MUSICAL ART should be (I apologise if that sounds a tad haughty).... There's too much shallow c**p out there, we should be more concerned with the substance as MUSIC fans I feel..... Leave the marketing sh!t to the Cowell/Walsh/X-Factor arse-lickers, none of that has anything to do with music, this should be a REAL Music forum for discussion about artists regardless of whether they sell two hundred or two hundred million... It is called "Specialist Music", after all.....

My only real problem with Jark is that he seems a bit too obsessed with the sales, chart and marketing c**p, which, is really NOT important to anyone's actual enjoyment of music.... And the misconception that "Seventh Tree" is a 'failure' is just that - a misconception.... If the album has "failed" to set the world on fire in terms of "sales", dont people think that maybe that might have summat to do with the album leaking months before release...? All the markerting expenditure in the world aint gonna do jack-sh!t about that... Better if they'd just done a Radiohead or NIN really, put it out on the Net..... Radiohead made a fair bit of dough out of their release of "In Rainbows" over the net, considerably MORE than they did with a physical release.....

 

All that marketing stuff has done is to just make music a throwaway commodity, something I don't believe that the MUSICAL ART should be (I apologise if that sounds a tad haughty).... There's too much shallow c**p out there, we should be more concerned with the substance as MUSIC fans I feel..... Leave the marketing sh!t to the Cowell/Walsh/X-Factor arse-lickers, none of that has anything to do with music, this should be a REAL Music forum for discussion about artists regardless of whether they sell two hundred or two hundred million... It is called "Specialist Music", after all.....

Agree with you 100%. It doesnt matter at all how much it sells. Only thing that matters is if the listener enjoys, simple. Hence why if people prefer "Supernature" over "Seventh Tree" it shouldnt even have become an issue.

 

I dont actually have a problem with most of your posts in this thread Scott, as you actually back all your points up and just make it a debate.

 

Unlike a certain other who comes across as a nasty, vile, patronising git.

Edited May 6, 200817 yr by Ryan

An album speaks for itself, not what it followed on from, artists who are similar.

 

That's just not true at all.... Every artist I've ever heard speak in an interview constantly goes on about which artists/bands influenced them on whatever album they were doing... It's impossible to divorce an artist from their influences.. Totally impossible. No artist out there would ever be so arrogant enough to say that their work is 100% original or uninformed by what music they grew up listening to, and those that do either seek publicity or are dishonest liars, either way, those types of 'artist' are unworthy because they have no respect for the music that they loved that went before... Even Johnny Rotten had to admit that The Who, The New York Dolls, Bowie and The Stooges were big influences upon him and the Punk scene in general....

 

Artists adapt and adopt when they create most certainly, but their art is not divorced from either historic or socio-political dimensions....

 

Hence why if people prefer "Supernature" over "Seventh Tree" it shouldnt even have become an issue.

 

Actually, you're right.... And I totally apologise for being a tw@t..... I think perhaps I just saw the red mist before my eyes, and thought back to that bad experience at the gig I went to cloud me a bit..... I probably shouldn't assume that people have as thick a skin as I do...... It's a bit too easy for the "edit" function in your brain to switch off on Forums like this innit....? I'd probably never DREAM of saying half the sh!t I do on here in real life tbh......

 

But I still think "Supernature" a bit of sucky record though.... :P :lol:

 

Actually, you're right.... And I totally apologise for being a tw@t..... I think perhaps I just saw the red mist before my eyes, and thought back to that bad experience at the gig I went to cloud me a bit..... I probably shouldn't assume that people have as thick a skin as I do...... It's a bit too easy for the "edit" function in your brain to switch off on Forums like this innit....? I'd probably never DREAM of saying half the sh!t I do on here in real life tbh......

 

But I still think "Supernature" a bit of sucky record though.... :P :lol:

Haha :lol: Its easy to get carried away/annoyed by things on here :lol:

 

Oh i absolutely agree. "Supernature" is by far their worst album.

 

How i rank them:

 

Felt Moutain

Black Cherry (Very close to being top though...)

Seventh Tree

Supernature

Unlike a certain other who comes across as a nasty, vile, patronising git.

 

Nah, Russ is okay... He's like me, just letting the old "edit" function slip..... :lol: We get like that us Old Gits... You've seen "Grumpy Old Men"????? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Me and him have had many a set-to on "Perspectives", but, I dont see him as being deliberately malicious....

 

That's just not true at all.... Every artist I've ever heard speak in an interview constantly goes on about which artists/bands influenced them on whatever album they were doing... It's impossible to divorce an artist from their influences.. Totally impossible. No artist out there would ever be so arrogant enough to say that their work is 100% original or uninformed by what music they grew up listening to, and those that do either seek publicity or are dishonest liars, either way, those types of 'artist' are unworthy because they have no respect for the music that they loved that went before... Even Johnny Rotten had to admit that The Who, The New York Dolls, Bowie and The Stooges were big influences upon him and the Punk scene in general....

 

Artists adapt and adopt when they create most certainly, but their art is not divorced from either historic or socio-political dimensions....

That's entirely irrelevant to my point. An album speaks for itself. Of course all albums have influences. But the quality of songwriting/music/aesthetic are what make the album good. Music is entirely opinion. We all see different things in music.

 

To say 'Supernature' isn't as good as 'Seventh Tree' is an opinion. Agreed surely?

Nah, Russ is okay... He's like me, just letting the old "edit" function slip..... :lol: We get like that us Old Gits... You've seen "Grumpy Old Men"????? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Me and him have had many a set-to on "Perspectives", but, I dont see him as being deliberately malicious....

Russ is one of the sites best posters. Doesnt mean i have to particularly like him though :lol: At least he stands out and has solid opinions (Even if they are snobbish, as in this case), doesnt blend into the boring bland plastic teenage crew that this site is overloaded with...

 

Just sometimes goes the wrong way about it and starts getting a bit personal :P But meh, at least it wasnt some boring thread to read :D Unlike most round here thesedays...

Mate, the reason I, as a 15/16 year old started listening to bands like Black Sabbath, Bowie, Velvet Underground, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, The Doors, etc was because OLDER FANS RECOMMENDED THEM TO ME..... And, I'm glad they did, for example - listening to Sab, Zep, Motorhead, Hawkwind, Sex Pistols, etc, totally enhanced my enjoyment of the likes of Slayer, Megadeth, Metallica, Anthrax (the Metal bands that were kind of around when I was 15/16 Y.O), listening to the Velvets, MC5, The Stooges, Bowie, etc, enhanced my enjoyment of The Cure, Jesus and Mary Chain, The Smiths, New Order, Happy Mondays; the likes Brian Eno, Pink Floyd and Kraftwerk enhanced my enjoyment of Aphex Twin, KLF, The Orb, Orbital ...... See the pattern here... I gave the older generation of fans a bit of credit that they actually knew what they were talking about when they recommended stuff to me, they set me on the right path... Musical lineage, history..... It's TOTALLY important mate, if you have no sense of where an artist comes from, how can you say you really "get" them or the music they make....? So, when CoD goes off mentioning Fairport Convention, he aint doing it to be a snob, he's doing it to actually enhance the listener's potential enjoyment of the new Goldfrapp record.....

 

...And, by the way, it actually works.... There is a GROSS and very apparent misunderstanding of this album and it IS based on a lack of musical history knowledge.....

But there's reccomending things and there's (what certainly appears) forcing stuff upon people taking no regard for their opinions and patronising them (which has happened, not necissarily by you, but it has). Not everyone takes music so serously, and why should they? Music is there to be enjoyed, why can't you enjoy something just because you're not aware of their earlier material or influences? Or because they sound like someone else? Or that they're not creatively groundbreaking or original?

Edited May 6, 200817 yr by RabbitFurCoat