.... and the poor shouldnt be taxed so much that they stay poor.

 

I agree about the tax on the poor the 10% tax band scrapping was outrageous but I think that rather than simply raise the top rate of tax to subsidise the poor that there should be savings in other areas of the economy and the money from those savings particularly in red tape, bureaucracy, management consultants and so on should be given to the poor in tax allowances as opposed to simply "soaking the rich" as Scott would say

it is an unequal world, always has been and always will be that will never change but I can't change my opinion that entrepreneurs and innovators should not be penalised in the name of political dogma

 

It's infinitely preferable to the poorest members of society suffereing while the top 5% lord it over everyone... Most of these b/astards exploit loopholes in the tax laws anyway, and blatantly dont pay their fair share.... Closing a few loopholes and seizing the assets of those worst offenders would mean that we probably wouldn't have to get rid of the 10p tax rate...

 

But, as usual, our Politicians go for the easy target - the poor, the ones who can least afford it.. Why should they suffer to benefit those who have tens of millions in offshore accounts and are blatantly avoiding paying their taxes.... If you ask me, these people are traitors to our country, and traitors to the ordinary working man and woman.... Am I being a bit strong...? I dont think so, it's because of the selfishness of these "blessed Entrepreneurs" that you totally arse kiss so much, that the poor are being hit so hard with Stealth Taxes, VAT and now this.... If you look at business people in SE Asia and Japan, they have a far greater sense of social responsibility....

The main problem here though is that too many people will just become tax exiles.. if you tax the rich too much there will be no rich such as the way our (and US/European) culture is going. <_<

It's infinitely preferable to the poorest members of society suffereing while the top 5% lord it over everyone... Most of these b/astards exploit loopholes in the tax laws anyway, and blatantly dont pay their fair share.... Closing a few loopholes and seizing the assets of those worst offenders would mean that we probably wouldn't have to get rid of the 10p tax rate...

 

But, as usual, our Politicians go for the easy target - the poor, the ones who can least afford it.. Why should they suffer to benefit those who have tens of millions in offshore accounts and are blatantly avoiding paying their taxes.... If you ask me, these people are traitors to our country, and traitors to the ordinary working man and woman.... Am I being a bit strong...? I dont think so, it's because of the selfishness of these "blessed Entrepreneurs" that you totally arse kiss so much, that the poor are being hit so hard with Stealth Taxes, VAT and now this.... If you look at business people in SE Asia and Japan, they have a far greater sense of social responsibility....

 

Ultimately if you soak the rich then that will not do anything for the poor except put more of them out of work, start hammering entrepreneurs then ultimately it will lead to job losses among ordinary employees of those companies or whole organisations being moved to India to save money again putting ordinary workers out of work

I agree about the tax on the poor the 10% tax band scrapping was outrageous but I think that rather than simply raise the top rate of tax to subsidise the poor that there should be savings in other areas of the economy and the money from those savings particularly in red tape, bureaucracy, management consultants and so on should be given to the poor in tax allowances as opposed to simply "soaking the rich" as Scott would say

 

get more idle bstrds back to work and off benefits would increase tax revenue whilst reducing the need for taxes.

Disagree, there is nothing whatsoever stopping someone of a working class background from making a success of their lives, setting up a business and working hard is not about class, look at the likes of Alan Sugar, Bernie Ecclestone, Philip Green, all born on council estates but now BILLIONAIRES because they had a vision and worked hard to build up their businesses from scratch, a working class person is just as open to setting up a business and creating a business as one of middle class

You cant use a few exceptions as an argument. The norm for people of a lower class is that they earn less than the average person from the middle class. You yourself said in a lot of cases the working class work as hard as the middle-class; then what is the reason for the average working-class person earning less, if it is not because of an inbuilt disadvantage?

In any case, were entering a financial crisis, so all normal rules and political views should be suspended. Its very conceivable that soon, some people will simply not have enough to live on. Do you want that to happen just so the ideology you view as right is upheld?

Its very conceivable that soon, some people will simply not have enough to live on

 

In my opinion there is no reason why any able bodied person of working age should be out of work, the idea of the welfare state being a way of life should not be an option, everyone who is able bodied should be working, there are a lot of jobs around and people should simply not be claiming benefits, the priority for the economy is getting the unemployed off their asses and into work as the welfare state is a MASSIVE drain on the economy, it really grates me seeing people out of work using up my taxes when there is so many vacancies being advertised

Ultimately if you soak the rich then that will not do anything for the poor except put more of them out of work, start hammering entrepreneurs then ultimately it will lead to job losses among ordinary employees of those companies or whole organisations being moved to India to save money again putting ordinary workers out of work

 

How the fukk is asking those who earn over 80k a year to pay up an extra 10p in Tax "hammering" them exactly...... ? Tell me that one, because I'm frankly baffled... What, so they might not be able to afford that extra yacht..?? Or that third Holiday home in the Cotswolds...?? There's a very funny episode of "South Park" when the kids get caught downloading music off Napster and they see the "poor" Rock Stars like Lars Ulrich and Britney Spears... Well, that can easily be transposed to this case.... Sorry mate, but the poor and lower middle-classes such as Teachers, Lecturers, Doctors, Nurses and Firemen are infinitely MORE hammered by this Govt than the Fat Cats and Bourgeois Upper Middle Classes are, so please, please stop talking bollocks about the "poor", underpriveleged multi-millionaire entrepreneurs like Alan Sugar out thate who might have to forego one or two utterly meaningless, utterly selfish luxuries....

How the fukk is asking those who earn over 80k a year to pay up an extra 10p in Tax "hammering" them exactly...... ? Tell me that one, because I'm frankly baffled... What, so they might not be able to afford that extra yacht..?? Or that third Holiday home in the Cotswolds...?? There's a very funny episode of "South Park" when the kids get caught downloading music off Napster and they see the "poor" Rock Stars like Lars Ulrich and Britney Spears... Well, that can easily be transposed to this case.... Sorry mate, but the poor and lower middle-classes such as Teachers, Lecturers, Doctors, Nurses and Firemen are infinitely MORE hammered by this Govt than the Fat Cats and Bourgeois Upper Middle Classes are, so please, please stop talking bollocks about the "poor", underpriveleged multi-millionaire entrepreneurs like Alan Sugar out thate who might have to forego one or two utterly meaningless, utterly selfish luxuries....

 

Sugar has worked exceptionally hard for these "selfish luxuries" that he has, read his biography mate he started his business in his teens and worked from 5am to 8pm 7 days a week to build it up so if he has earned a few luxuries like yachts and property and flash cars etc then good luck to the guy, I dont begrudge him a single penny or a single luxury, what you are saying sounds to me the politics of envy, Sugar, Ecclestone, Abramovich, Green etc may have become billionaires but I dont begrudge them a single penny, between them they also employ close on 200,000 people

 

I agree that the ordinary man in the street is over taxed including the professions you listed I don't dispute that but squeezing out a bit more money out of the wealth creators and so on is at best a symbolic gesture made of envy and nothing more

 

The way to ease the tax burden for the ordinary man in the street is :

 

1) Massive changed to the benefits system, too many people are taking liberties big time

2) Getting the unemployed off their asses and into work thus making them taxpayers

3) Massive cuts in bureaucracy in Whitehall and areas like the NHS

 

Those sort of things are far more productive to the tax system than adding a few pence onto Sugar's tax bill because some people are envious of him

Sugar has worked exceptionally hard for these "selfish luxuries" that he has, read his biography mate he started his business in his teens and worked from 5am to 8pm 7 days a week to build it up so if he has earned a few luxuries like yachts and property and flash cars etc then good luck to the guy, I dont begrudge him a single penny or a single luxury, what you are saying sounds to me the politics of envy, Sugar, Ecclestone, Abramovich, Green etc may have become billionaires but I dont begrudge them a single penny, between them they also employ close on 200,000 people

 

I agree that the ordinary man in the street is over taxed including the professions you listed I don't dispute that but squeezing out a bit more money out of the wealth creators and so on is at best a symbolic gesture made of envy and nothing more

 

The way to ease the tax burden for the ordinary man in the street is :

 

1) Massive changed to the benefits system, too many people are taking liberties big time

2) Getting the unemployed off their asses and into work thus making them taxpayers

3) Massive cuts in bureaucracy in Whitehall and areas like the NHS

 

Those sort of things are far more productive to the tax system than adding a few pence onto Sugar's tax bill because some people are envious of him

 

For a start, I still maintain that expecting these people to pay up their fair share (and not hide it all away in accounts in the Caymans, Channel Islands, etc..) is NOT hammering them in the slightest, nor is a "gesture made of envy"... Why should they get away with it when you or I don't...? And I repeat, raising the Top Rate threshold by 10p aint gonna hurt ANYONE earning a six-figure salary to any meaningful degree.... Yes, the likes of "Surallan" have come out of nothing, worked hard, fair enough.. But how much do they really need...? When is it all 'enough'..? No one is suggesting that we go back to the days of the 95p rate (that was just bloody silly...), which was the subject of that famous song by The Beatles ("Taxman"), but come on, the pendulum has swung WAY too far the other way now, and if you're now talking about making the poorest members of society suffer, then sorry, but that's just utterly WRONG. If it means the folks who earn 6-figure and above salaries have to delve into their pockets A BIT (and this is what we ARE talking about here - A BIT.....) so that those earning slavery wages ALREADY aren't kicked even more in the teeth, well, sorry, but Social Justice and basic human decency demands that the richer cough up a tiny bit....

 

Fukk Abrahmovic by the way.. The man's a fukkin' CROOK.... <_< Anyone who makes the sort of money he did out of the incredibly nebulous, criminal world of the Russian oil industry is FAR from clean.... He's gonna get found out one day, and frankly I hope the c/unt gets an ice-pick through his skull.... <_<

For a start, I still maintain that expecting these people to pay up their fair share (and not hide it all away in accounts in the Caymans, Channel Islands, etc..) is NOT hammering them in the slightest, nor is a "gesture made of envy"... Why should they get away with it when you or I don't...? And I repeat, raising the Top Rate threshold by 10p aint gonna hurt ANYONE earning a six-figure salary to any meaningful degree.... Yes, the likes of "Surallan" have come out of nothing, worked hard, fair enough.. But how much do they really need...? When is it all 'enough'..? No one is suggesting that we go back to the days of the 95p rate (that was just bloody silly...), which was the subject of that famous song by The Beatles ("Taxman"), but come on, the pendulum has swung WAY too far the other way now, and if you're now talking about making the poorest members of society suffer, then sorry, but that's just utterly WRONG. If it means the folks who earn 6-figure and above salaries have to delve into their pockets A BIT (and this is what we ARE talking about here - A BIT.....) so that those earning slavery wages ALREADY aren't kicked even more in the teeth, well, sorry, but Social Justice and basic human decency demands that the richer cough up a tiny bit....

 

Fukk Abrahmovic by the way.. The man's a fukkin' CROOK.... <_< Anyone who makes the sort of money he did out of the incredibly nebulous, criminal world of the Russian oil industry is FAR from clean.... He's gonna get found out one day, and frankly I hope the c/unt gets an ice-pick through his skull.... <_<

 

I am personally in favour of scrapping income tax altogether and sharply increasing the rate of VAT in order to make up the shortfall, then that way tax is based on what people actually SPEND as opposed to what people actually earn so then everyone is paying into the coffers and someone who buys a Ferrari is going to pay more into the system than someone who buys a Renault Clio, scrapping income tax altogether and replacing it with a sales tax means high spenders pay more tax and also there is no more tax loopholes to be exploited

 

 

And I repeat, raising the Top Rate threshold by 10p aint gonna hurt ANYONE earning a six-figure salary to any meaningful degree....

 

Sure Sugar and co are extreme examples but in your original thing of £80k a year + there are people like lawyers, barristers, doctors, consultants, surgeons, dentists, IT specialists, senior marketing and sales managers and so on who earn that sort of money and by increasing their tax burden runs the risk of these very talented people taking part in the "brain drain" and moving to countries where there is less of a tax burden

I am personally in favour of scrapping income tax altogether and sharply increasing the rate of VAT in order to make up the shortfall,

 

Insanity... That'll hit the poor more than anyone else, AGAIN... Because then you're gonna be talking about taxing food, clothing, etc.... As well as probably making VAT on fuel even MORE expensive...... The US-style 'sales tax' has done exactly this - hammered poorer communities..... The rich wont care about spending a couple of extra grand on a Ferrari... If they've got a hundred grand + to spend on a sodding pen*s-extention, they wont quibble over a couple of grand extra for "taxes" will they....? But it WILL affect the middle-income families buying the Clio far more in proportion.....

 

...Back to the drawing board Craig....

 

 

 

Insanity... That'll hit the poor more than anyone else, AGAIN... Because then you're gonna be talking about taxing food, clothing, etc.... As well as probably making VAT on fuel even MORE expensive...... The US-style 'sales tax' has done exactly this - hammered poorer communities..... The rich wont care about spending a couple of extra grand on a Ferrari... If they've got a hundred grand + to spend on a sodding pen*s-extention, they wont quibble over a couple of grand extra for "taxes" will they....? But it WILL affect the middle-income families buying the Clio far more in proportion.....

 

...Back to the drawing board Craig....

 

The things currently exempt from VAT would stay exempt from VAT

 

I don't think anyone has any obligation to anyone in society apart from the sick and the elderly

 

I don't think a wealthy person or a middle earner has any obligation to the lower end of society, of course there has to be protection for the vulnerable like the sick and the disabled and so on but its a dog eat dog sink or swim society so EVERYONE has an obligation to themselves and their families and no one else as far as I am concerned

 

Everyone has an obligation to WORK, everyone has an obligation to be a law abiding citizen those that choose not to work have no right as far as I am concerned to have or to expect the rich or middle class or anyone else provide for them

 

There has never been an equal society and there never will be, everyone's obligation is to themselves and their families no one else as far as I am concerned

 

 

I don't think a wealthy person or a middle earner has any obligation to the lower end of society, of course there has to be protection for the vulnerable like the sick and the disabled and so on but its a dog eat dog sink or swim society so EVERYONE has an obligation to themselves and their families and no one else as far as I am concerned

 

This Thatcherite bullsh!t is the reason why our society is totally fukked now mate..... Your party created the generation of "Layabout, shiftless, Chavs" and the "Welfare Culture" you despise so much, because SHE never gave anyone from the lower end of society any reason to bloody aspire to be anything else other than a dolie.....

Everyone has an obligation to WORK, everyone has an obligation to be a law abiding citizen those that choose not to work have no right as far as I am concerned to have or to expect the rich or middle class or anyone else provide for them

 

Maybe an obligation, but sure as hell no incentive thanks to a totally unfair tax system, and a frankly pathetic "minimum wage".....

 

I don't think anyone has any obligation to anyone in society apart from the sick and the elderly

 

Who'll be the ones that will suffer most from "sharp increases" in VAT you plank...... :lol: :lol:

 

This Thatcherite bullsh!t is the reason why our society is totally fukked now mate..... Your party created the generation of "Layabout, shiftless, Chavs" and the "Welfare Culture" you despise so much, because SHE never gave anyone from the lower end of society any reason to bloody aspire to be anything.....

 

I don't think its Thatcherite at all

 

Someone wants to have a kid, great, but they can pay for it and its upkeep

 

Someone is too lazy to work, fine their choice but don't expect any money from taxpayers to fund that lifestyle

 

Someone wants to come and live in this country, fine, their choice but if they aren't earning any money they don't get any off the taxpayer when they haven't put anything into the coffers

 

I don't see those sort of things as Thatcherite one bit

 

I drive a nice car, I worked my bollocks off to buy it, I saved and I saved again and felt proud when I bought it, am I meant to feel guilty when I am driving in that car and see someone in a 20 year old banger or bicycle who can't afford an Impreza ? no, why should I, again that is not Thatcherite

 

 

Who'll be the ones that will suffer most from "sharp increases" in VAT you plank...... :lol: :lol:

 

Not if the state pension is substantially increased, pensioners aren't taxpayers nor are the disabled, i would increase disability benefits for the GENUINELY disabled who realistically have no chance of working, in turn I would remove the workshy and the fake disabled from the benefits system