May 20, 200817 yr Great case in point is Oasis - the rot was beginning to settle in with 'Roll With It' but had shrivelled to nothing by the time 'D'You Know What I Mean' was out. Pretty much how I felt about Oasis tbh... I remember the Melody Maker review of "(What's The Story) Morning Glory", which basically ended with the reviewer saying "They sound knackered".... Pretty much sums it up for me... I still enjoy the debut, some great tunes ("Live Forever", "Slide Away" and "Supersonic" remain damn good tunes...), but I've really heard nothing since then from Oasis that's got me excited about them... Stone Roses totally blew it as well, signing to Geffen and having too much money made them complacent and it showed with "Second Coming", which was just a bloody poor album.... The Verve are another one, the more music press arse kissing they got, the worse the music got and then we got "Urban Hymns" which was just one of the worst examples of stodgy, tired Dad Rock ever produced... Ride - two great albums ("Nowhere" and "Going Blank Again"), two absolute STINKERS ("Carnival Of Light" and "Tarantula").... Primal Scream are another band who buck the trend somewhat, their first two fledgling efforts were a bit ropey, then came "Screamadelica", where they got bigger and considerably better... We'll forget about "Give Out, But Don't Give Up" (a sh"tty album of second-rate Stones karaoke..) because they almost certainly redeemed themselves with three bloody amazing albums after it....
May 20, 200817 yr Well, that might be true mate, but it doesn't mean I have to like it... LOL. I just think Vig spoiled the great tunes on that album by making the production too glossy and poppy... It was honestly like Nirvana were two bands at that stage, cos when they played the "Nevermind" songs live, they were raw-as-fukk and rocked like b/astards, and bore little resemblance to how the album made them sound, "Territorial Pissings" probably being the most stark contrast... Oh, I quite agree. My favourite Nirvana album is 'Bleach' after all! My point was, if it weren't for the slickness then we might never have heard much of them - they wouldn't have headlined Reading and Kurt's death may have been no more 'celebrated' than that of, say, Shannon Hoon's.
May 24, 200817 yr Author No, it doesn't... PWL stuff was far more concerned chiefly with what I consider to be the poison of all "great" music, Marketing and Promotion, something that was not the chief concern of the likes of Mute, Rough Trade, Sub-Pop, Creation, Factory, Wiiija etc... The actual music came very far down the list of priorities at the PWL factory, and the "artists" were all so bloody interchangeable, Christ just about anyone could've been picked from a fukkin' hat to be the dancing marionette for these "songs", something you could certainly NOT say about any of the artists on the rosters of the other Indie labels I mentioned, ALL of whom had their own distinct sound and personality... but not to dwell on them for too long - cant you also say that PWL had there own distinct sound and personality...tho whereas 4AD is their kind of dream-pop - PWL cheesy Hi-NRG Eurodicso??? ...And "factory" was pretty much what PWL was... Production-line bollocks.. Music basically turned into a soul-less, gutless, bloody manufacturing process.... Yeah, like that's gonna create something that's worth anything.... and talking of production-line bollocks.. isnt this a big problem with indie with its never ending me too policy of signings - the if everyone else is doing it why cant we mentality (tho i guess nobody else wants to sound like the Cranberries :lol: :lol:) I was delighted when Nirvana became successful (not least because their success was instrumental in killing off the God-awful LA Poodle Rock of the mid-to-late-80s...), my chief problem with "Nevermind" was the crappy production that made the band sound too Poppy (something which was rectified when Steve Albini produced "In Utero").... The actual tunes bloody ROCKED when you heard them played live..... Hair-metal / glam-metal / spandex rock - call it what you want, might be awful but i guess i suppose if its there just to be dumb fun party rock music - to be enjoyed by people who like it so what...was reading about a big hair-metal concert in Rolling Stone - Rocklahoma - with people like Ratt, Poison and Quiet Riot and it might be very dumbass in comparison to the 'high arts' of the nme - tho for the people there it was just a way to let their hair down, have a beer look at some girls and just party par-tay par-tay!!! - think maybe they might have a point - they like it - so thats what they like - rather than thinking that their musical tastes owe them some great superiority over other (which can happen some times esp in some very male led enviroments of music culture - esp in the indie bore)
May 25, 200817 yr I'm sick of the whole 'indie' fascination. It used to mean 'independent', which makes sense, now it's all about describing a certain sound which i just don't get.
May 26, 200817 yr I'm sick of the whole 'indie' fascination. It used to mean 'independent', which makes sense, now it's all about describing a certain sound which i just don't get. true.... im loathed to call it 'indie' (hence the ' ' ) because it ISNT. scott calls it 'new wave britpop' which in essence is exactly what it is. i call it 'mod' quite often as it IS modernist music, the sort we have done so well for over 40 years.
May 27, 200817 yr scott calls it 'new wave britpop' which in essence is exactly what it is. i call it 'mod' quite often as it IS modernist music, the sort we have done so well for over 40 years. Actually, with the advent of bands like The Kooks and One Night Only, I'm terming it more (S)indie Haircut Bollocks...... :lol: "Britpop" at least had a bit of "rough and ready" about it, this current crop just seem like a right bunch of big girl's blouses manufactured in some "indie" factory somewhere..... :lol:
May 27, 200817 yr Hair-metal / glam-metal / spandex rock - call it what you want, might be awful but i guess i suppose if its there just to be dumb fun party rock music - to be enjoyed by people who like it so what...was reading about a big hair-metal concert in Rolling Stone - Rocklahoma - with people like Ratt, Poison and Quiet Riot and it might be very dumbass in comparison to the 'high arts' of the nme - tho for the people there it was just a way to let their hair down, have a beer look at some girls and just party par-tay par-tay!!! - think maybe they might have a point - they like it - so thats what they like - rather than thinking that their musical tastes owe them some great superiority over other (which can happen some times esp in some very male led enviroments of music culture - esp in the indie bore) So, let me get this straight, if I object to the watered-down, pishy 80s Hair Metal, then I'm some sort of "indie bore" is that it....? Who's talking about "high art" here... I'm not, I'm talking about a particularly LAME time for Rock/Metal music.... If you listen to the great "good time", PAR-TAAAAAAAY Hard Rock acts of the 70s - Kiss, Whitesnake, Van Halen, Aerosmith (BEFORE they all dumbed down and became pretty damned insufferable LA WANKY c**k ROCK in the mid-80s of course), AC/DC, Free, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Thin Lizzy, Motorhead, etc, and compare them to the likes of Ratt, Poison and Quiet Riot, I think you'll find the contrast pretty stark... Only the likes of Alice Cooper, Dave Lee Roth, Heart, Ozzy, and a bunch of young, brash, cocky sh"t-stirrers called Guns N Roses (hmmm, whatever became of them....?) could truly hold their heads high in this pretty awful period.... Apart from the Thrash Metal bands of course, but Thrash was a cut of a rather different cloth....
May 27, 200817 yr Author So, let me get this straight, if I object to the watered-down, pishy 80s Hair Metal, then I'm some sort of "indie bore" is that it....? Who's talking about "high art" here... I'm not, I'm talking about a particularly LAME time for Rock/Metal music.... If you listen to the great "good time", PAR-TAAAAAAAY Hard Rock acts of the 70s - Kiss, Whitesnake, Van Halen, Aerosmith (BEFORE they all dumbed down and became pretty damned insufferable LA WANKY c**k ROCK in the mid-80s of course), AC/DC, Free, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Thin Lizzy, Motorhead, etc, and compare them to the likes of Ratt, Poison and Quiet Riot, I think you'll find the contrast pretty stark... http://www.solitaryvision.co.uk/mediac/400_0/media/fireworks19shadow.jpg Well no I wouldnt say you personally are an 'indie bore' because obv we are moving from indie to a whole differeent are of rock and as you know a few editions of Hit Parader doesnt make a Metal Mastermind does it now... and when it comes to Hard and Metal area of Rock its obv the thing that you know the best...you know the whole oeuvres of these acts above where I only know certain well known tracks - and yeah by taking the debate into the Metal arena I am slightly out of my depth as its not really the thing I'm into**...but even without listening to the whole cannon of Ratt, Poison and Quiet Riot (names picked just from that issue of Rolling Stone as you remember)..the point that I was trying to get across is the 'Superioity' and 'coolness' that some music fans and critics seem to award themselves by listening to certain kinds of music...and I guess the negative ways that other forms of music will be criticized and 'labeled' with out fair consideration... this current crop just seem like a right bunch of big girl's blouses manufactured in some "indie" factory somewhere..... :lol: and it seems we're going back with PWL rather than PIL again :lol: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/imageuploads/1159523363_80.177.117.97.jpg The British are coming in a big way as Rhino presents the first-ever comprehensive survey of U.K. indie music with the king's ransom-sized, 4-CD THE BRIT BOX: U.K. INDIE, SHOEGAZE, AND BRIT-POP GEMS OF THE LAST MILLENNIUM. It gathers 78 key tastemaker recordings from U.K. performers spanning the last 15 years of the 20th century, chronologically sequenced over four packed discs. This celebration of cool Britannia is housed in bloody awesome box shaped like a classic red U.K. telephone booth -with working lights - and comes with a matching phone kiosk-shaped collectible keychain! Actually, with the advent of bands like The Kooks and One Night Only, I'm terming it more (S)indie Haircut Bollocks...... :lol: "Britpop" at least had a bit of "rough and ready" about it, this current crop just seem like a right bunch of big girl's blouses manufactured in some "indie" factory somewhere..... :lol: Yeah Indie-Hair-cut-bollcoks is a good definition probs better than Britpop as the problem with Britpop is that now the Americans are using it with their ultra-genre-hyphen-obessession and have re-branded it as 'Brit-pop' - it probably doesn't have the same connotations and cultural significance that the Journlist that coined Britpop*** meaning a certain period, movement and time in that part of British Musical Culture and in could just just as well mean any British Pop group or Rick Astley****... Notes: **and yeah actually I would probably expect a book of 1980s Metal in the humour section - and expect Bring Your Daughter To The Slaughter to have been in Eurovision :lol:) http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/193259518X.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V34303681_.jpg ***Maybe it should be writen Brit.Pop ****Yeah its obv that Rick Astley is the disco Micheal McDonald - tho can you think of a better punchline than Rick Astley - I know I can't :lol:
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