You've just shot your own argument on another thread about all teachers having a "cushy" job with this sentence mate..... -_-

 

I rest my case....

 

:lol:

 

game, set and match i think!!!

:lol:

 

game, set and match i think!!!

 

It was hardly a challenge.... :lol:

 

My sister went to a catholic school for some time (while our family still had money to pay for it), I checked her biology books and I don´t remember seeing anything about creationism, and the school was undoubtedly the best over this city. The Catholic Church is not against evolutionism or the Big Bang Theory. In fact, the author of the big bang theory was a roman catholic priest. The hypothesis of a universe coming into existence from nothing was discarded by all atheists before that, but christians knew that since forever. BBC likes to portrait christians as a load of middle age idiots, while it pretend to be suporting "tolerance". Their influence is huge in this society were people base their opinions on superficial TV shows and journal articles, (people who have never read an entire book since left the school). I think not only christians, but everyone needs better education, and read some basic literature before falling into this bull$h!t of cliches without ever bothering read an entire book about the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

 

Before learning to read books and basing opinions on serious stuff, wikipedia should do the job for angry adolescents.

My sister went to a catholic school for some time (while our family still had money to pay for it), I checked her biology books and I don´t remember seeing anything about creationism, and the school was undoubtedly the best over this city. The Catholic Church is not against evolutionism or the Big Bang Theory. In fact, the author of the big bang theory was a roman catholic priest. The hypothesis of a universe coming into existence from nothing was discarded by all atheists before that, but christians knew that since forever. BBC likes to portrait christians as a load of middle age idiots, while it pretend to be suporting "tolerance". Their influence is huge in this society were people base their opinions on superficial TV shows and journal articles, (people who have never read an entire book since left the school). I think not only christians, but everyone needs better education, and read some basic literature before falling into this bull$h!t of cliches without ever bothering read an entire book about the subject.

 

we have already established that there are differing degrees of militancy within faith schools... some do follow the correct sylabus whilst others teach what the bible says as fact... THAT is the problem.

 

as for the universe coming into existance from nothing... well it isnt quite like that, as i understand it the raw elements were always there pre big bang, it was the big bang that created the raw materials into a system of order.

 

however, i accept that 'what created god' is as pertainant a question as 'what made the elements, where did they come from'.... neither christian, muslim, jew, hindu or athiest can explain the origins of matter.

My sister went to a catholic school for some time (while our family still had money to pay for it), I checked her biology books and I don´t remember seeing anything about creationism, and the school was undoubtedly the best over this city. The Catholic Church is not against evolutionism or the Big Bang Theory. In fact, the author of the big bang theory was a roman catholic priest. The hypothesis of a universe coming into existence from nothing was discarded by all atheists before that, but christians knew that since forever. BBC likes to portrait christians as a load of middle age idiots, while it pretend to be suporting "tolerance". Their influence is huge in this society were people base their opinions on superficial TV shows and journal articles, (people who have never read an entire book since left the school). I think not only christians, but everyone needs better education, and read some basic literature before falling into this bull$h!t of cliches without ever bothering read an entire book about the subject.

 

If this is the case, why is Creationism being pushed far more in Religious-based schools as opposed to Secular ones....? And recently we had the case of a teacher being sacked in Florida for "wizardry" and teaching the "dark arts"... His actual "crime"...? Erm, making a toothpick disappear and appear in front of his class..... :mellow: A simple "sleight of hand" trick which is no more the "black arts" than Paul Daniels or a kid's birthday party "magician"..... Would a secular, non-religious school fire a teacher for performing a simple sleight-of-hand trick for the amusement of their students..? I really dont think so my friend...

 

If this is the case, why is Creationism being pushed far more in Religious-based schools as opposed to Secular ones....? And recently we had the case of a teacher being sacked in Florida for "wizardry" and teaching the "dark arts"... His actual "crime"...? Erm, making a toothpick disappear and appear in front of his class..... :mellow: A simple "sleight of hand" trick which is no more the "black arts" than Paul Daniels or a kid's birthday party "magician"..... Would a secular, non-religious school fire a teacher for performing a simple sleight-of-hand trick for the amusement of their students..? I really dont think so my friend...

 

These are just extreme cases, that contribute nothing to the debate. I have known of several teachers who were fired in secular schools for political opinions, for example. Should we shut them down?

 

These are just extreme cases, that contribute nothing to the debate. I have known of several teachers who were fired in secular schools for political opinions, for example. Should we shut them down?

 

Depends on the Political "opinion" though dunnit....? If they're going around saying summat like "Hitler was a decent chap and the Jews lied about the Holocaust, David Irvine was right", then you're damn right they should be sacked, because that's just plain WRONG and filling kids heads with false propaganda....

 

And you're wrong in any case, it totally contributes to the debate... It speaks to an attitude within faith schools which clearly exists if kids cant even be entertained with a parlour trick from their teacher without some religious nutters on the School Board taking it to ridiculous extremes and sacking the guy... It's like summat out of Arthur Millar's "The Crucible" FFS.... Amazed the teacher wasn't burned at the stake for being a "witch" by these bloody loonies..... -_-

 

 

 

Depends on the Political "opinion" though dunnit....? If they're going around saying summat like "Hitler was a decent chap and the Jews lied about the Holocaust, David Irvine was right", then you're damn right they should be sacked, because that's just plain WRONG and filling kids heads with false propaganda....

 

And you're wrong in any case, it totally contributes to the debate... It speaks to an attitude within faith schools which clearly exists if kids cant even be entertained with a parlour trick from their teacher without some religious nutters on the School Board taking it to ridiculous extremes and sacking the guy... It's like summat out of Arthur Millar's "The Crucible" FFS.... Amazed the teacher wasn't burned at the stake for being a "witch" by these bloody loonies..... -_-

 

So, an isolate fact that happened in a school in Florida is taken as "an attitude within faith schools". Well, if this fact was so common like you believe, then it wouldn´t have become news in first place. You wouldn´t have to mention news coming from a school overseas if this was the general faith schools attitude, because that would be happening day after day in all schools around you. It wouldn´t be "news" material.

 

In 99,9% of faith schools the teacher wouldn´t be dropped because of this little entertainment, of course, assuming there wasn´t any bigger abuse since we don´t know all the facts about it. Your judgementalism is so irresponsible. You clearly take the exception as a rule, so the structure of your prejudice is exactly the same as anyone who uses one example here and there to build concepts about a whole group of people. If you said that "Jews are all liars" it wouldn´t be less ofensive then it, cause it would be the same cheap cheap cheap generalization. We know that in a world with millions with jews, there must be many jews who are liars, in the same proportion as there are non-jews who are liars aswell. In a world with millions of christians, surely there are millions of them who are full of prejudice and make cheap generalizations about other groups of people, but then again in the same proportion as there are non-christians who practice prejudice and make cheap generalizations - yourself being one of them.

 

All these mentions about witches being burned, inquisition, and stuff is soooo childish. When was the last time you heard about people being sentenced to death by a christian church??? In the past, church and state were not separated at all, the church served for state purpouses. But churches and states have separated since then. The whole medieval mentality wasn´t that much influenced by christianity after all, the fusion between church and state being the biggest proof of it (because christianity actually teaches the separation between secular and spiritual powers, to the point state and institutionalized religion play the devil´s role all over the New Testament literature, remember Christ was killed by the state and the institutionalized religion of his time). In the middle age an average person wouldn´t even have acess to the Bible in the 1st place. Not even priests had acess to the full text, but only the excerpts that should be used during the masses, with the versions of the Bible being usually in latin, which was only understood by intelectuals who probably made up less then 0.5% of the population. And even if the Bible had been completely acessible and translated to the popular languages, still, most of the people dind´t even knew how to read. So the medieval Europe christian? It was as "christian" as 21st century England.

So, an isolate fact that happened in a school in Florida is taken as "an attitude within faith schools". Well, if this fact was so common like you believe, then it wouldn´t have become news in first place. You wouldn´t have to mention news coming from a school overseas if this was the general faith schools attitude, because that would be happening day after day in all schools around you. It wouldn´t be "news" material.

 

In 99,9% of faith schools the teacher wouldn´t be dropped because of this little entertainment, of course, assuming there wasn´t any bigger abuse since we don´t know all the facts about it. Your judgementalism is so irresponsible. You clearly take the exception as a rule, so the structure of your prejudice is exactly the same as anyone who uses one example here and there to build concepts about a whole group of people. If you said that "Jews are all liars" it wouldn´t be less ofensive then it, cause it would be the same cheap cheap cheap generalization. We know that in a world with millions with jews, there must be many jews who are liars, in the same proportion as there are non-jews who are liars aswell. In a world with millions of christians, surely there are millions of them who are full of prejudice and make cheap generalizations about other groups of people, but then again in the same proportion as there are non-christians who practice prejudice and make cheap generalizations - yourself being one of them.

 

All these mentions about witches being burned, inquisition, and stuff is soooo childish. When was the last time you heard about people being sentenced to death by a christian church??? In the past, church and state were not separated at all, the church served for state purpouses. But churches and states have separated since then. The whole medieval mentality wasn´t that much influenced by christianity after all, the fusion between church and state being the biggest proof of it (because christianity actually teaches the separation between secular and spiritual powers, to the point state and institutionalized religion play the devil´s role all over the New Testament literature, remember Christ was killed by the state and the institutionalized religion of his time). In the middle age an average person wouldn´t even have acess to the Bible in the 1st place. Not even priests had acess to the full text, but only the excerpts that should be used during the masses, with the versions of the Bible being usually in latin, which was only understood by intelectuals who probably made up less then 0.5% of the population. And even if the Bible had been completely acessible and translated to the popular languages, still, most of the people dind´t even knew how to read. So the medieval Europe christian? It was as "christian" as 21st century England.

 

 

well not strictly true...... certainly in the early medieval period what you say is correct but by the dawn of the 16th centuary the new fangled printing press and the new english version of the bible was commonplace in society.... according to simon schama's history anyway :)

 

oh and jesus being crucified by the state is a belief, NOT a fact, as it cannot be verified, proven.

In 99,9% of faith schools the teacher wouldn´t be dropped because of this little entertainment, of course, assuming there wasn´t any bigger abuse since we don´t know all the facts about it. Your judgementalism is so irresponsible. You clearly take the exception as a rule, so the structure of your prejudice is exactly the same as anyone who uses one example here and there to build concepts about a whole group of people. If you said that "Jews are all liars" it wouldn´t be less ofensive then it, cause it would be the same cheap cheap cheap generalization. We know that in a world with millions with jews, there must be many jews who are liars, in the same proportion as there are non-jews who are liars aswell. In a world with millions of christians, surely there are millions of them who are full of prejudice and make cheap generalizations about other groups of people, but then again in the same proportion as there are non-christians who practice prejudice and make cheap generalizations - yourself being one of them.

 

Nope, from what I gathered about the story, he was fired for "wizardry" and not really anything else.... Say what you like, this sort of idiocy belongs in the dark ages, teachers shouldn't be getting sacked for entertaining their kids.. And you're one to talk to anyone about making cheap generalizations mate given some of your posts in the past which frankly border on racism, misoginy and homophobia....

 

 

Nope, from what I gathered about the story, he was fired for "wizardry" and not really anything else.... Say what you like, this sort of idiocy belongs in the dark ages, teachers shouldn't be getting sacked for entertaining their kids.. And you're one to talk to anyone about making cheap generalizations mate given some of your posts in the past which frankly border on racism, misoginy and homophobia....

 

I have never done that. If it was anyone else posting this, I would be ofended and ask for proof. But since it is you, I don´t really bother, cause people kind of know how honest you are with your arguments. They just need to read a few posts below.

oh and jesus being crucified by the state is a belief, NOT a fact, as it cannot be verified, proven.

 

Well, we don´t have physical proof, that´s why I said in the New Testment literature. Altough 99% we know from ancient history comes from literature. Most of famous ancient personalities lives cannot be considered "facts" by this strict sense of the word. People who have left physical evidence of their existence surviving for 20 centuries must be one in a million anyway. Whoever invented the Jesus figure in literature, must have been at the same time, genial and dumb. Genial for writing some of the cream of universal literature, and the most famous and impactant speeches of all time, dumb for leaving the fame for an imaginary character and loosing the chance to make a name for himself, in history.

Well, we don´t have physical proof, that´s why I said in the New Testment literature. Altough 99% we know from ancient history comes from literature. Most of famous ancient personalities lives cannot be considered "facts" by this strict sense of the word. People who have left physical evidence of their existence surviving for 20 centuries must be one in a million anyway. Whoever invented the Jesus figure in literature, must have been at the same time, genial and dumb. Genial for writing some of the cream of universal literature, and the most famous and impactant speeches of all time, dumb for leaving the fame for an imaginary character and loosing the chance to make a name for himself, in history.

 

but the story of jc wasnt written by 1 bloke.... but by several sketchy references to a figure (either imaginary or based on a real person). i find it remarkable that all the REAL figures at the time have got tangible evidence that they existed, jc, the 'biggest bloke of all time' hasnt! i find this fact incredible! God. the creator of the whole universe, FAILED to get his important message across in an undeniable way.... but it was concocted many years later by a group of radicals with a point to make.

 

plus, the profound teachings credited to christ were around long before 'he' was! he said nothing new, it was an age of prophets, indeed the jews were EXPECTING 'the' prophet, so why didnt they recognise him when he came?... supersticion was abundant in ancient israel and had been for centuaries.

 

you dont have to scratch the surface of this tenuous religion to expose its enourmous flaws.

you dont have to scratch the surface of this tenuous religion to expose its enourmous flaws.

 

Not just this religion though Rob, everything else that's based upon it too - Judaism, Islam.... It's all just variations on a flawed theme, a flawed theory...

 

...And I dont reckon theories this flawed should be taught in schools as the truth anymore than idiotic Conspiracy Theories such as alien abductions or the whole "moon landings were faked" nonsense.... Makes for a good film or TV show, but shouldn't be part of a child's education.....

but the story of jc wasnt written by 1 bloke.... but by several sketchy references to a figure (either imaginary or based on a real person). i find it remarkable that all the REAL figures at the time have got tangible evidence that they existed, jc, the 'biggest bloke of all time' hasnt! i find this fact incredible! God. the creator of the whole universe, FAILED to get his important message across in an undeniable way.... but it was concocted many years later by a group of radicals with a point to make.

 

plus, the profound teachings credited to christ were around long before 'he' was! he said nothing new, it was an age of prophets, indeed the jews were EXPECTING 'the' prophet, so why didnt they recognise him when he came?... supersticion was abundant in ancient israel and had been for centuaries.

 

you dont have to scratch the surface of this tenuous religion to expose its enourmous flaws.

 

Well, it seems that you can´t go any further then scratching the surface of this religion cause you ignore even the superficial facts about it. If I am to make serious criticism of any ideology, for example, it means that I need to know about what I´m talking, and not basing on what I´ve heard. You don´t expect someone who never read Shakespeare to make criticism about his work. You point that there is no proof, but then anyone who knows christianity very superficially knows that it preaches salvation by faith, so it would have failed it there was any scientific proof. Then the point about the supposed "failure" of God is hilarious, since any kid in a C of E sunday school must have learned that the gospel is preached an believed by every single person it was planned to be. There are no possible failures. Every single person who was meant to be saved, will be eventually saved, and it´s not a matter of choice. Then again, a person becomes the most widespread name in human history without a scientific proof of his existence and you consider it "failure"??? People like Madonna and Mariah Carey have worked their entire life in order to be worldwide famous, and their name will never reach 1/30 of JC´s audience, and will be lucky to be still remembered a few decades after their death. Guess why, because they have no relevant message in it, an JC´s message doesn´t resume to "be nice, and do good to others".

Edited June 6, 200817 yr by Janet Jackson´s Nipple

Well, it seems that you can´t go any further then scratching the surface of this religion cause you ignore even the superficial facts about it. If I am to make serious criticism of any ideology, for example, it means that I need to know about what I´m talking, and not basing on what I´ve heard. You don´t expect someone who never read Shakespeare to make criticism about his work. You point that there is no proof, but then anyone who knows christianity very superficially knows that it preaches salvation by faith, so it would have failed it there was any scientific proof. Then the point about the supposed "failure" of God is hilarious, since any kid in a C of E sunday school must have learned that the gospel is preached an believed by every single person it was planned to be. There are no possible failures. Every single person who was meant to be saved, will be eventually saved, and it´s not a matter of choice. Then again, a person becomes the most widespread name in human history without a scientific proof of his existence and you consider it "failure"??? People like Madonna and Mariah Carey have worked their entire life in order to be worldwide famous, and their name will never reach 1/30 of JC´s audience, and will be lucky to be still remembered a few decades after their death. Guess why, because they have no relevant message in it, an JC´s message doesn´t resume to "be nice, and do good to others".

 

 

lol.. i like the way you assume that i have not religious background...

 

but that assumption is bollox

 

not only was i schooled in christian teachings but i WAS a born again christian, :lol:, i embraced the whole ideaology, so yes I DO KNOW what im talking about.

 

salvation through faith... faith has not scientific proof.... EXACTLY! its utterly preposterous to believe in something because you want to, it doesnt make it the truth! ffs... belief does not equate to fact!

 

" Every single person who was meant to be saved, will be eventually saved, and it´s not a matter of choice"..... thats the biggest load of tosh you have ever written and demonstrates that YOU have little grasp on christian doctrine, which CLEARLY states that 'man has free will'.... wether or not to follow the path of righteousness....

lol.. i like the way you assume that i have not religious background...

 

but that assumption is bollox

 

not only was i schooled in christian teachings but i WAS a born again christian, :lol:, i embraced the whole ideaology, so yes I DO KNOW what im talking about.

 

salvation through faith... faith has not scientific proof.... EXACTLY! its utterly preposterous to believe in something because you want to, it doesnt make it the truth! ffs... belief does not equate to fact!

 

" Every single person who was meant to be saved, will be eventually saved, and it´s not a matter of choice"..... thats the biggest load of tosh you have ever written and demonstrates that YOU have little grasp on christian doctrine, which CLEARLY states that 'man has free will'.... wether or not to follow the path of righteousness....

 

Dude, it's pretty pointless to try and reason with a fanatic... Which JJN clearly is... -_- He/she just reminds me of the priests who "taught" me when I was a kid at school, it's all "you'll be saved if you're good, rot in Hell if you're a sinner" control-freak nonsense which is the stock-in trade of Christian nutters.. They really are ALL the same.....

Dude, it's pretty pointless to try and reason with a fanatic... Which JJN clearly is... -_- He/she just reminds me of the priests who "taught" me when I was a kid at school, it's all "you'll be saved if you're good, rot in Hell if you're a sinner" control-freak nonsense which is the stock-in trade of Christian nutters.. They really are ALL the same.....

 

maybe m8, but i see religion in the same light as the moon landing conspiracies, nonsense, based on bad or non exsistent science being passed off as the truth.... i fully agree with richard dawkins , its dangerous for the future development of the human race if people are passing ideas, notions, fantasies, off as 'the truth' and are ignoring scientific fact.

lol.. i like the way you assume that i have not religious background...

 

but that assumption is bollox

 

not only was i schooled in christian teachings but i WAS a born again christian, :lol:, i embraced the whole ideaology, so yes I DO KNOW what im talking about.

 

salvation through faith... faith has not scientific proof.... EXACTLY! its utterly preposterous to believe in something because you want to, it doesnt make it the truth! ffs... belief does not equate to fact!

 

" Every single person who was meant to be saved, will be eventually saved, and it´s not a matter of choice"..... thats the biggest load of tosh you have ever written and demonstrates that YOU have little grasp on christian doctrine, which CLEARLY states that 'man has free will'.... wether or not to follow the path of righteousness....

 

Now this is LAUGHABLE!!!!!!!! You know as much as christianity doctrine as my dog knows about maths. You could have read the 39 articles of faith of the C of E at least, to pretend you know something.

 

XVII. Of Predestination and Election.

Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God, be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Mt22:14)

 

"And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. " (Romans 8:30)

 

It´s ok if you want to criticize, but dude... have some basis.

Edited June 6, 200817 yr by Janet Jackson´s Nipple