Nearly 600,000 people never convicted of any crime now have their details stored on Labour’s DNA database, shock figures reveal.

 

More than 400,000 of those were added in the past two years, further fuelling the belief that the Government is building a genetic record of the entire population by stealth.

 

The figure of 573,639 people on the database who have not been convicted, cautioned, formally warned or reprimanded has pushed the overall total to 4.2million.

 

In the past two years alone, a total of about one million new people have had their DNA added. Nearly half of them – 434,176 – have not been convicted of any crime.

Police can take DNA fingerprints from anybody arrested on suspicion of a recordable offence.

 

But DNA taken from victims and witnesses to separate it from suspects’ samples at crime scenes can also be added to the database.

 

The information can be stored indefinitely and potentially matched with samples at crime scenes, even if the suspect is innocent.

 

Civil rights campaigners and MPs have been calling on the Government to change the law to force the police to destroy the DNA records of anyone without a criminal record.

 

Last month, a Government-funded inquiry called for new laws to limit who can access the database, including restricting police use to ‘seeking matches from a crime scene’.

It also called on Ministers to curtail police powers that allow them to take DNA by force from people picked up for minor offences such as a breach of the peace.

 

The revelations of the number of ‘non-criminals’ being added to the system are contained in internal research statistics obtained by The Mail on Sunday from the National Policing Improvement Agency, which oversees the DNA database.

The research, carried out at the end of March, compared individuals on the DNA database and records on the Police National Computer.

 

It is the first official figure on the number of ‘innocents’ on the database since November 2005, when there were just 139,463 people on the system who had not been charged or cautioned.

 

Last week, the Government also revealed its database contained the profiles of almost 40,000 innocent children.

 

Home Office Minister Meg Hillier said the profiles of an estimated 39,095 ten to 17-year-olds who ‘had not been convicted, cautioned, received a final warning/reprimand and had no charge pending against them’ were on the database.

 

The UK’s database is the largest in the world, holding the genetic fingerprints of more than 5 per cent of the population, compared with the equivalent database in the United States, which holds 0.5 per cent of the population.

 

Before 2001, the police could take DNA samples during investigations but had to destroy these and the records derived from them if the people concerned were acquitted or charges were not proceeded with.

 

The law was changed in 2001 to remove this requirement and changed again in 2004 so that DNA samples could be taken from anyone arrested for a recordable offence and detained in a police station.

 

Neither the Home Office nor the National Policing Improvement Agency would explain the reason for the apparent huge increase in the number of people not convicted of any offence being added to the system.

 

Last night a spokesman for the National Policing Improvement Agency said the new figures were incomplete and had been produced only for research purposes.

 

He said: ‘It is not possible to give a precise figure for the number of people on the National DNA Database who have committed no offence as some relevant conviction and caution records have been weeded from the Police National Computer.’

He added that he was unable to discuss the apparent increase because it was not ‘a like-for-like comparison’.

 

And a Home Office spokeswoman said: ‘The National DNA Database is a key intelligence tool which has revolutionised the way the police can protect the public through identifying offenders and securing more convictions.

 

‘It provides critical investigative leads for police investigations, providing on average about 45,000 matches per year.’

 

The spokeswoman pointed to the case of Abdul Azad, who was arrested for violent disorder in his Birmingham home in February 2005.

 

He had a DNA sample taken and was released without charge.

 

Later that year a rape happened in Stafford, 25 miles away. There were no clues until skin from beneath the victim’s fingernails was profiled and found to match the DNA taken from Azad. He was jailed for six years.

 

 

Source: Mail on Sunday

Are you concerned about being put on this DNA database?

Are you concerned about being put on this DNA database?

 

in a word..... no. why should i be?

in a word..... no. why should i be?

 

If you're not concerned about your DNA being held without your knowledge or consent by God knows what Govt dept then frankly, you're an idiot Rob.....

 

40,000 kids who've done nowt wrong should NOT have their DNA kept, end of fukkin' story.... This is just outrageous....

 

The Govt is being very sneaky about this, doing by the back door, so even if you're 'caught short' one night and p*** up an alley-way you can get your DNA taken.... The filth'll probably start taking DNA from people who merely give statements next.....

If you're not concerned about your DNA being held without your knowledge or consent by God knows what Govt dept then frankly, you're an idiot Rob.....

 

40,000 kids who've done nowt wrong should NOT have their DNA kept, end of fukkin' story.... This is just outrageous....

 

The Govt is being very sneaky about this, doing by the back door, so even if you're 'caught short' one night and p*** up an alley-way you can get your DNA taken.... The filth'll probably start taking DNA from people who merely give statements next.....

 

ok im an idiot... i have yet to hear any argument to tell me WHY i should be worried. i dont care if they have my dna, they have everything else... insurance, car reg, birth certificate, nat ins no. , address, etc etc etc... im still of the persuasion by FAR that the positives outweigh the negetives by a mile.

ok im an idiot... i have yet to hear any argument to tell me WHY i should be worried. i dont care if they have my dna, they have everything else... insurance, car reg, birth certificate, nat ins no. , address, etc etc etc... im still of the persuasion by FAR that the positives outweigh the negetives by a mile.

 

All these things are just pieces of paper though, DNA is your VERY essence, the very core of your being... We are not defined by our address or nat insurance number, DNA however, is a different matter, because it's part of US.... I'd no more willingly surrender my DNA to these Govt b/astards than I would my heart or liver.... Yes, I have a donor card before you come away with some facetious point, but I'll actually be DEAD before anyone harvests my organs for transplant, and it'll be DOCTORS using my organs to save people.... Doctors I trust, the Police Force and the Govt I DON'T, simple as.....

 

People have been fitted up by forensic evidence being used entirely inappropriately (the case of Barry George being the most recent example of a gross miscarriage of justice which went on for longer than it should...), and also things like SECONDARY DNA TRANSFER can occur, which is just as likely as SECONDARY GSR TRANSFER, as any Scientist worth their salt will tell you..... Oh, and there is the "minor" matter of I simply do not find any reason to believe the Govt is competent enough to manage a National DNA database, so then, what, they'll "contract out"....? Have some Private Company manage it....? what assurances do we have that a PRIVATE concern with god knows what interests would manage people's DNA appropriately....?

 

And also, let's just take the ethical arguments - why the fukk should it be incumbent upon ME to prove my innocence when the Law of the Land is "Innocent Til PROVEN Guilty....". You clearly have no respect for history, the Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus, etc if you are willing to go along with this bullsh!t.....

 

This is WHY we need a Bill of Rights in this country.... If some copper takes my DNA for no good reason and it's kept on file permanently after I've been cleared of any wrongdoing, I will almost certainly challenge it in the Euro Court of Human Rights..... Here's hoping that one or more of the parents of these kids has the balls to do this.....

barry george was not convicted on dna evidence.

 

we have done this subject many times before and im not persuaded one bit by your argument, as ive said before, dna benefits far outweigh the hypothetical negetives.

barry george was not convicted on dna evidence.

 

we have done this subject many times before and im not persuaded one bit by your argument, as ive said before, dna benefits far outweigh the hypothetical negetives.

 

Nothing "hypothetical" about it.... The Govt have proven they cant maintain the integrity of people's private information... The HMRC fiasco, lap-tops being left on tubes, etc, I dont trust 'em with an ID card scheme, and I certainly dont trust 'em with this either....

 

Barry George was convicted on dodgy Forensic evidence, it's the same sort of thing, the same principle, it was misused and deliberately misinterpreted by the prosecution in his trial, it's not the actual science that's the problem, it's the way it could potentially be (mis)used. So, you honestly believe that a national DNA database couldn't be misused or mishandled in the same manner by the authorities so that they could deal with any "undesirables" that they wanted....? God, you really are naive..... :lol: :lol: Wake up man, this is what these people do to ordinary folks all the time..... If it happened to Barry George, it can happen to anyone....

 

Anyway, the facts speak for themselves - In US only 0.5% of the population is on a DNA database, here it is 5%... So, what, now we're a more lawless society than America???? I dont think so, so the majority of these folks on this database MUST be entirely innocent of any criminal offences......

Nothing "hypothetical" about it.... The Govt have proven they cant maintain the integrity of people's private information... The HMRC fiasco, lap-tops being left on tubes, etc, I dont trust 'em with an ID card scheme, and I certainly dont trust 'em with this either....

 

Barry George was convicted on dodgy Forensic evidence, it's the same sort of thing, the same principle, it was misused and deliberately misinterpreted by the prosecution in his trial, it's not the actual science that's the problem, it's the way it could potentially be (mis)used. So, you honestly believe that a national DNA database couldn't be misused or mishandled in the same manner by the authorities so that they could deal with any "undesirables" that they wanted....? God, you really are naive..... :lol: :lol: Wake up man, this is what these people do to ordinary folks all the time..... If it happened to Barry George, it can happen to anyone....

 

Anyway, the facts speak for themselves - In US only 0.5% of the population is on a DNA database, here it is 5%... So, what, now we're a more lawless society than America???? I dont think so, so the majority of these folks on this database MUST be entirely innocent of any criminal offences......

 

again... follow your argument through to its logical conclusion and EVERY technique used to catch crims could be open to be abused, therefore lets stop sending them to court just in case theres the minutest chance the evidence might not be watertight... strewth, youd have NO convictions and criminals would never get punished... <_<

 

utter bollox.... AGAIN i stress that the positive atributes of dna FAR outweigh the negetives, the negetives that shouldnt even exist.

There was something on the TV a while ago, about how a disabled man was arrested for a burglary over 100 miles away because 'they matched his DNA'. Now far be it from me I never knew wheelchair bound people could break through a window and proceed to empty a house.

 

And this is the Government who can't even send a disc securely around the country with millions of people's details on. I severely doubt they would be able to maintain security of a DNA database of every single person. And the way they are doing it quietly in the background tells a story itself to me.

There was something on the TV a while ago, about how a disabled man was arrested for a burglary over 100 miles away because 'they matched his DNA'. Now far be it from me I never knew wheelchair bound people could break through a window and proceed to empty a house.

 

And this is the Government who can't even send a disc securely around the country with millions of people's details on. I severely doubt they would be able to maintain security of a DNA database of every single person. And the way they are doing it quietly in the background tells a story itself to me.

 

....and the same programme highlighted 2 cases where murderers were caught by dna, neither were criminals so in grimlys world they would still be at large killing people <_< great.

There was something on the TV a while ago, about how a disabled man was arrested for a burglary over 100 miles away because 'they matched his DNA'. Now far be it from me I never knew wheelchair bound people could break through a window and proceed to empty a house.

 

And this is the Government who can't even send a disc securely around the country with millions of people's details on. I severely doubt they would be able to maintain security of a DNA database of every single person. And the way they are doing it quietly in the background tells a story itself to me.

 

EXACTLY... In the background, hush hush.... They cant even be open and honest about what the fukk they're doing, so what does that say...? These people are corrupt liars who would sell us all down the river on the back of some supposed "greater good", look at Iraq, the "war on terror", etc, and what came out of that - suicide bombs on the streets of London, huge, great targets painted on the backs of every man, woman and child in this country so we could kiss America's arse, all for the "greater good", BALONEY. And then we're supposed to trust these w/ankers with something as big as THIS or ID cards, you've gotta be sh!tting me :lol: :lol: :lol: .... The case about the disabled chap is just hilarious, for all the wrong reasons though, it proves the incompetency of those who would manage such a system....

 

And Rob, "my world", what you mean a world where people's civil liberties and the rule of law are actually respected by the State....? You would have us all give up our privacy and freedom for the sake of State wouldn't you...? I suppose you support torture as a method of extracting information as well I take it....? -_-

 

You supposedly respect history, well that's a joke, because people throughout history fought and died to give us the civil liberties and freedoms that things like this and biometric ID cards will totally erode.... Now, I'm sorry, but liberty and freedom does mean a slightly higher chance of criminal activity, but given the alternatives, it's a price I'm certainly willing to pay to be honest.... You want to target known criminals and their associates and the other assorted criminal chavvy gang scum ALL of whom are known to the Police, get THEM off the streets by whatever means necessary...? Give me the piece of paper to sign and I'll support that because it wouldn't adversely effect the rights and freedoms of the law-abiding MAJORITY and it would have the added bonus of seeing the crime statistics fall dramatically; otherwise, you and this poxy, fascistic Govt can just fukk right off....

 

I mean, sorry Rob, but the police in France, Germany, Holland, Scandinavia, etc seem to be perfectly capable of solving crimes WITHOUT eroding people's freedoms and civil liberties to this extent...... All the more reasons to persuade me to move there, fukk this country, we'd may as well have bloody Sharia Law if we're gonna allow the Govt to totally erode our rights and freedoms to this extent.....

therefore lets stop sending them to court just in case theres the minutest chance the evidence might not be watertight...

 

That's the RULE OF LAW mate, sorry if that's a bit of an inconvienience to you, but it's served us perfectly well for hundreds of years, and I dont see why we should sacrifice it on the altar of some nebulous "greater good"..... It's actually there to protect EVERYONE, if you weren't so short-sighted you'd actually recognise it as being a GOOD THING.... Otherwise, one day, we'll all wake up and find ourselves in some sort of Orwellian or Kafkaesque nightmare scenario..... Mind you, there's already a lot of people in this country who actually ARE subject to this sort of thing, it sure aint hypothetical - people under what is known as "Control Orders" just because some MI5 officer hears a bit of "chatter" they're put under indefinite House Arrest.... They have little or no recourse to the law, they have no way to question their accusers face to face, they have no right to hear the evidence against them....

 

Very Kafka..... -_- If this is the sort of system you favour for us all then I think that says a lot more about YOU than it does me tbh.....

That's the RULE OF LAW mate, sorry if that's a bit of an inconvienience to you, but it's served us perfectly well for hundreds of years, and I dont see why we should sacrifice it on the altar of some nebulous "greater good"..... It's actually there to protect EVERYONE, if you weren't so short-sighted you'd actually recognise it as being a GOOD THING.... Otherwise, one day, we'll all wake up and find ourselves in some sort of Orwellian or Kafkaesque nightmare scenario..... Mind you, there's already a lot of people in this country who actually ARE subject to this sort of thing, it sure aint hypothetical - people under what is known as "Control Orders" just because some MI5 officer hears a bit of "chatter" they're put under indefinite House Arrest.... They have little or no recourse to the law, they have no way to question their accusers face to face, they have no right to hear the evidence against them....

 

Very Kafka..... -_- If this is the sort of system you favour for us all then I think that says a lot more about YOU than it does me tbh.....

 

missed my point.... ho hum... :lol:

 

ME being short sighted, when its YOU that is just playing the gobby rik role again .... yawn.. im far sighted enough to understand what a GOOD thing this technology is.. bloody luddite, served us well for hundereds of years eh?... tell that to the guildford 4 or the birminham 6... pmsl... course mistakes/corruption NEVER happened before did it! pillock.

EXACTLY... In the background, hush hush.... They cant even be open and honest about what the fukk they're doing, so what does that say...? These people are corrupt liars who would sell us all down the river on the back of some supposed "greater good", look at Iraq, the "war on terror", etc, and what came out of that - suicide bombs on the streets of London, huge, great targets painted on the backs of every man, woman and child in this country so we could kiss America's arse, all for the "greater good", BALONEY. And then we're supposed to trust these w/ankers with something as big as THIS or ID cards, you've gotta be sh!tting me :lol: :lol: :lol: .... The case about the disabled chap is just hilarious, for all the wrong reasons though, it proves the incompetency of those who would manage such a system....

 

And Rob, "my world", what you mean a world where people's civil liberties and the rule of law are actually respected by the State....? You would have us all give up our privacy and freedom for the sake of State wouldn't you...? I suppose you support torture as a method of extracting information as well I take it....? -_-

 

You supposedly respect history, well that's a joke, because people throughout history fought and died to give us the civil liberties and freedoms that things like this and biometric ID cards will totally erode.... Now, I'm sorry, but liberty and freedom does mean a slightly higher chance of criminal activity, but given the alternatives, it's a price I'm certainly willing to pay to be honest.... You want to target known criminals and their associates and the other assorted criminal chavvy gang scum ALL of whom are known to the Police, get THEM off the streets by whatever means necessary...? Give me the piece of paper to sign and I'll support that because it wouldn't adversely effect the rights and freedoms of the law-abiding MAJORITY and it would have the added bonus of seeing the crime statistics fall dramatically; otherwise, you and this poxy, fascistic Govt can just fukk right off....

 

I mean, sorry Rob, but the police in France, Germany, Holland, Scandinavia, etc seem to be perfectly capable of solving crimes WITHOUT eroding people's freedoms and civil liberties to this extent...... All the more reasons to persuade me to move there, fukk this country, we'd may as well have bloody Sharia Law if we're gonna allow the Govt to totally erode our rights and freedoms to this extent.....

 

there you go.... youd sooner see even more criminality in the name of freedom.. WELL I WOULDNT. i got nowt to hide so i embrace anything that will ensure our safety and freedom. history has taught us that the more freedom you have, the more its abused and more people end up being hurt.

 

there has to be a balance between freedom and enforced laws.

 

that instance matt highlighted was flawed because, at that time they only used 18 pionters in a dna strand... they are now using more and as time goes on more still which will make dna foolproof as our dna IS unique in its entirety.

 

I'm not surprised. I'm sure they are doing the same thing in America. It's sad that almost everybody alive today sees the government as the enemy.

im far sighted enough to understand what a GOOD thing this technology is..

 

I've no problem with the science, I think I mentioned that SEVERAL times if you bothered to read my posts, the problem is the APPLICATION of the Science and the fact that I simply do not trust the Govt at all..... They've proven to me that they are not worthy of anyone's trust... I repeat - IT IS NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE SCIENCE ITSELF, the science doesn't lie, the people who use and abuse it for their own ends (which is what happened in the Barry George case....) DO..... Take out the liars and the corrupt b/astards, then we'll talk about this subject, until then, like I say, you and they can p!ss off about National DNA databases.....

 

The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were examples of other individuals who were convicted on dodgy forensic evidence... Not to mention the fact that the fair, judicious application of the RULE OF LAW certainly did not apply in their case.... Unless you call beating up innocent people, Kangaroo Courts, depriving them of sleep and torture methods as being part of fair, judicious application... YOU pillock..... :lol: :lol: :P

It's sad that almost everybody alive today sees the government as the enemy.

 

It may be sad, but it's a fact Tyler... Especially when we're talking about US Govt. LOL... Okay, that was a bit trite, but still, you dont exactly like your own Govt do you...? I've seen you post many times, criticising Bush....

 

Blair and Broon have proven themselves to be mendacious liars, not only over Iraq/War on Terror, but also on many other issues... This sneaky way that they're going about compiling this database will do absolutely NOTHING to prove otherwise... In fact, it will have an adverse affect on people's co-operation with the Police in any future investigations... LOADS of People are seriously gonna thing twice about volunteering "Elimination Samples" in any future high-profile murders, because they're gonna think "well, hang on, it's not an 'elimination sample at all, these faceless bureaucrats just want to put me on some database without informing me....". Talk about squandering the goodwill of the public..... -_-

 

I never thought I'd actually listen to a damn thing that the vile Ian Brady (Moors Murderer) had to say, but he is totally right in this following statement - "A few fertiliser bombs go off in London and we're all herded like some bovine generation....". Never mind the source of the statement, the statement itself is what's important, and I have to say, he has a point......

 

there has to be a balance between freedom and enforced laws.

 

Which is why I say I would sign a piece of paper that ensures that the REAL, habitual criminals have no freedom and are taken off the streets by whatever means necessary... But this doesn't mean that I'm willing to go along with something that effects the law-abiding MAJORITY..... Taking out the majority of scum who affect our daily lives will improve all our lives.... Serial Killers and Terrorism are a very rare phenomenon, they dont concern me, you've more chance being struck by lightening to be honest.... It's the random violence that occurs on our streets EVERY FUKKIN' DAY by chavvy gang scum that's the real problem...... And this is carried out in the main by scum who are KNOWN faces and have criminal records as long as John Holmes' dick.....

 

See, there's your "balance", the guilty ones get it, the majority dont.....

 

I've no problem with the science, I think I mentioned that SEVERAL times if you bothered to read my posts, the problem is the APPLICATION of the Science and the fact that I simply do not trust the Govt at all..... They've proven to me that they are not worthy of anyone's trust... I repeat - IT IS NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE SCIENCE ITSELF, the science doesn't lie, the people who use and abuse it for their own ends (which is what happened in the Barry George case....) DO..... Take out the liars and the corrupt b/astards, then we'll talk about this subject, until then, like I say, you and they can p!ss off about National DNA databases.....

 

The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were examples of other individuals who were convicted on dodgy forensic evidence... Not to mention the fact that the fair, judicious application of the RULE OF LAW certainly did not apply in their case.... Unless you call beating up innocent people, Kangaroo Courts, depriving them of sleep and torture methods as being part of fair, judicious application... YOU pillock..... :lol: :lol: :P

 

yes ive read you posts, but you seem to be under the ilusion that only dna evidence is flawed or open to abuse... this clearly isnt the case and as ive said, the technology is improving making it far harder to be 'fit up'. this would lessen the chances of the application being able to be abused. besides, how often does this abuse ever occur? its a scaremongering point as it totally overlooks the weight of evidence that proves far more good is coming out of dna then any minor wrongdoings or errors, wrongdoing and errors that occur anyway in normal police procedure.!!!

The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were examples of other individuals who were convicted on dodgy forensic evidence... Not to mention the fact that the fair, judicious application of the RULE OF LAW certainly did not apply in their case.... Unless you call beating up innocent people, Kangaroo Courts, depriving them of sleep and torture methods as being part of fair, judicious application... YOU pillock..... :lol: :lol: :P

 

lol.. youve just proved the point i was making... 'evidence' has always been open to abuse, so DONT point to the 'pre dna days' as some sort of perfect solution to crime fighting... it wasnt.