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Where did you read that Bananarama were manufactured? Far from it - they were discovered by Terry Hall after he saw a photo of them in The Face magazine...at the time (1981), they'd been playing shambolic gigs round London and living with the Sex Pistols in Denmark Street for a few years in the late 70s (Paul Cook actually played drums for them in the early 90s....).

 

yes its quite ironic if you take the (McLaren) view that the Sex Pistols were a manufactured band when banananarana was not!!!!

 

Girls Aloud are great and would be the most brilliant pop act of that type ever - even better than s club!!! - if they hadnt released any cover versions or appeared in those dull itv2 show (their dvd had all the videos as an extra - so it was a rare occassion where i didnt bother watch the main feature....)...the show has to be one of the best songs ever!!!

 

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yes its quite ironic if you take the (McLaren) view that the Sex Pistols were a manufactured band when banananarana was not!!!!

 

Girls Aloud are great and would be the most brilliant pop act of that type ever - even better than s club!!! - if they hadnt released any cover versions or appeared in those dull itv2 show (their dvd had all the videos as an extra - so it was a rare occassion where i didnt bother watch the main feature....)...the show has to be one of the best songs ever!!!

 

 

Well seeing how Stevie Wonder was a guest on this week's Jonathan Ross show, and Girls Aloud are the musical guests on next Friday's Jonathan Ross show I expect you'll say that they are more talented than Stevie Wonder.

 

Whilst Jonathan Ross is interviewing Cheryl Cole who pipped Boy George for the 4th judge in X-Factor. Again no doubt you think that Cheryl Cole is far more qualified to be a judge than the hilarious, witty, acerbic Boy George who's CV is more substantial than the 4 judges on X-Factor put together.

 

When Girls Aloud write and produce a song without the help of Xenomania then I'll give then some credit, until then they are just another disposable pop act, who happen to be very lucky that Brian Higgins & co is their main producer/writer.

Well seeing how Stevie Wonder was a guest on this week's Jonathan Ross show, and Girls Aloud are the musical guests on next Friday's Jonathan Ross show I expect you'll say that they are more talented than Stevie Wonder.

 

maybe its a good thing that you have brought into a thread about s/a/w an artist like Stevie Wonder..a hugely talented artist of the 1960s and 1970s..responsible for some brilliant records of the 1960s and 1970s...and some utter utter c**p since then...remember he is part responsible for Ebony and Ivory - perhaps one of the worst songs ever made...and even worse than Philip Oakey & Giorgio Moroder's Together In Electric Dreams (tho i will flag this up in worse ever lists rather than that as tbh i prefer brian wilson's work to Paul McCartney's)...so maybe pete waterman is a similar type of genius working along the same lines...tho this one going from from Tracey Ullman to One True Voice....rather than from Superstition to So What The Fuss!!!

 

Stevie Wonder - So What The Fuss...

 

Ebony and Ivory - Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder

:puke2: :puke2: :puke2: :puke2: :puke2: :arrr:

 

maybe it would be easier wondering if Jay Kay should take over from Richard Hammond on top gear!!!

 

Jamiroquai - Virtual Insanity

 

Whilst Jonathan Ross is interviewing Cheryl Cole who pipped Boy George for the 4th judge in X-Factor. Again no doubt you think that Cheryl Cole is far more qualified to be a judge than the hilarious, witty, acerbic Boy George who's CV is more substantial than the 4 judges on X-Factor put together.

 

Boy George as 4th judge in X-Factor...don't you mean 4th, 5th and sixth judge in X Factor :lol: ...sorry seemed to be having a pete burns moment for a while there :lol: :lol: ....as far as the x-factor goes i dont watch it so dont care who the judge is tho i guess that Sharon Osboune is much missed - fake tantrums and all....

 

 

  • Author
yes its quite ironic if you take the (McLaren) view that the Sex Pistols were a manufactured band when banananarana was not!!!!

 

that is one of the biggest LIES ever put about in rock music history

 

catch 'the filth and the fury' the sex pistols own version of events.

 

"nobody manufactured me" .... john lydon.

that is one of the biggest LIES ever put about in rock music history

 

catch 'the filth and the fury' the sex pistols own version of events.

 

"nobody manufactured me" .... john lydon.

Well of course you find nothing wrong about Pete Waterman who was/is older than the likes of Dad Rockers Mark Knopfler, Sting & Phil Collins writing a song with lyrics moaning about all the old acts around at the time then.

 

At the time Pete Waterman claimed it was their "God Save The Queen" FFS.

 

As for Style Council, if you bothered listening to the lyrics of Life At A Top People's Health Farm you would know that it is rather sarcastic savage put down of the Conservative administration and all that it stood for.

 

Still how many more hits did the Reynolds Girls have eh? Whilst I must have missed Bill Clinton using their song as an anthem for his administration & I must have missed the Corrs cover of the said song.:lol:

 

Still as for Fleetwood Mac:

 

Fleetwood Mac - Big Love (1987)

 

Does that video (concept thought up for by Lindsay Buckingham) look familiar eh?

 

White Stripes - Seven Nation Army

 

Ting Tings - Shut Up & Let Me Go

 

The simple fact is all the new acts that the Reynolds Girls namecheck in that song have all long since disappeared, yet the acts they slag off are still around. Why is that then?

 

Answer: Maybe because those old acts had something most Stock Aitken & Waterman acts failed to possess: Musical Talent.

 

at this point think this comment should go here...and wasnt punk less to do with musical talent with just picking up a guitar* and going for it...? esp when it has been reported as a reaction to all those talented types who were so talented with their intruments they wanted to show you via a solo that lasted 30 minutes, and all those soft rock, jamband and almost famous types of bands like i guess doobie brothers, The Allman Brothers, foreigner, chicago, King Crimson, Yes, and the Kings of Leon (well maybe not Kings of Leon but someone who could be Kings of Leon :lol: ) etc

 

*well except if you were Philip Oakey and co who think they were being more punk than punk as the guitars were like too hard to play and thats why so they choose synths....and i suppose everybody else reading this will be like...but you cannot criticize Dare..its such an iconic album...tho its got on it Open Your Heart and that has to be regarded as one of the worst songs of the 80s - its horrid....

 

"THE GOOD"

HUMAN LEAGUE - BEING BOILED :cheer: :yahoo: :cheer:

 

"THE BAD"

:up: The Human League - Open Your Heart :( :puke2: :( :up:

 

"THE EFF-ING UGLY"

The Human League - Soundtrack To A Generation

 

however think its a bit pointless like totally trying to comparing punk with this kind of disco-pop...tho are we saying that punk-rock is nothing but simple pop here?!?!? think maybe another comparison is needed - American production powerhouse Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis perhaps...

 

:down: Alexander O'Neal Criticize :down:

 

:down: HUMAN LEAGUE - I NEED YOUR LOVING :down:

 

:down: HUMAN LEAGUE - LOVE IS ALL THAT MATTERS :down:

 

:down: Janet Jackson & Herb Alpert - Diamonds :down:

 

and have you noticed all these songs above sound like Jam and Lewis productions as much as what people say s/a/w productions do...but i guess this will not be a criticizism of Jam and Lewis as they are american and black...

  • Author
at this point think this comment should go here...and wasnt punk less to do with musical talent with just picking up a guitar* and going for it...? esp when it has been reported as a reaction to all those talented types who were so talented with their intruments they wanted to show you via a solo that lasted 30 minutes, and all those soft rock, jamband and almost famous types of bands like i guess doobie brothers, The Allman Brothers, foreigner, chicago, King Crimson, Yes, and the Kings of Leon (well maybe not Kings of Leon but someone who could be Kings of Leon :lol: ) etc

 

*well except if you were Philip Oakey and co who think they were being more punk than punk as the guitars were like too hard to play and thats why so they choose synths....and i suppose everybody else reading this will be like...but you cannot criticize Dare..its such an iconic album...tho its got on it Open Your Heart and that has to be regarded as one of the worst songs of the 80s - its horrid....

 

"THE GOOD"

HUMAN LEAGUE - BEING BOILED :cheer: :yahoo: :cheer:

 

"THE BAD"

:up: The Human League - Open Your Heart :( :puke2: :( :up:

 

"THE EFF-ING UGLY"

The Human League - Soundtrack To A Generation

 

however think its a bit pointless like totally trying to comparing punk with this kind of disco-pop...tho are we saying that punk-rock is nothing but simple pop here?!?!? think maybe another comparison is needed - American production powerhouse Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis perhaps...

 

:down: Alexander O'Neal Criticize :down:

 

:down: HUMAN LEAGUE - I NEED YOUR LOVING :down:

 

:down: HUMAN LEAGUE - LOVE IS ALL THAT MATTERS :down:

 

:down: Janet Jackson & Herb Alpert - Diamonds :down:

 

and have you noticed all these songs above sound like Jam and Lewis productions as much as what people say s/a/w productions do...but i guess this will not be a criticizism of Jam and Lewis as they are american and black...

hmm... maybe a good idea for a thread... 'the good, the bad. and the ugly'.. three tracks of differing quality by the same artist...

 

i think the only ones to come close to manufactured sameish sounds that are black and american was berry gordys motown.. he was producing a production line music thing 25 years before watertwat. maybe im hypocritical here but i LIKE motown, production line sounds or not.

i think the only ones to come close to manufactured sameish sounds that are black and american was berry gordys motown.. he was producing a production line music thing 25 years before watertwat. maybe im hypocritical here but i LIKE motown, production line sounds or not.

 

But two key differences:

 

1. Stock Aitken & Waterman did not have the fantastic set of musicians "The Funk Brothers" to do the backing tracks and instead had cheap nasty synthesised Euro beat musak instead for their backing tracks.

 

2. Motown re-recorded their backing tracks if different artists used the same song often radically re-intrepreting them depending on the artists in question:

 

Example:

 

Gladys Knight & The Pips - I Heard It Through The Grapevine (1967)

 

Marvin Gaye - I Heard It Through The Grapevine (1968)

 

 

 

 

hmm... maybe a good idea for a thread... 'the good, the bad. and the ugly'.. three tracks of differing quality by the same artist...

 

i think the only ones to come close to manufactured sameish sounds that are black and american was berry gordys motown.. he was producing a production line music thing 25 years before watertwat. maybe im hypocritical here but i LIKE motown, production line sounds or not.

 

motown is alright...even tho some of the early motown-pop stuff could be just seen as black american cheesy pop :lol:

 

in regard to motown & its almost henry ford production line mentality...the detroit production line era (backed by people like The Funk Brothers) is the kinda idea people most associate with the genre of motown (you know when you see it written on pub a-boards advertising friday night discos when you walk past) i guess even more than the political and psych-funk stuff that came out afterwards and when the firm moved to LA and released more records with a social conscious....

 

however how good records those were i guess motown is also responsible for some $h!te...

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/StevieWonderIJustCalledToSayILoveYou7InchFrenchSingleCover.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Loves_Alright.jpg

 

i bought my dad a total motown collection not so long ago...and he thought it was rubbish and gave it back to me as it was full of really bad slow jamz from the mid 1980s (like the ones you get on timelife telelshopping) and i guess all the decent tracks from earlier i guess he had already...

 

dont know where that comp has got to but i've got motown chartbusters 10 here but those tracks seem mostly to be from the late 70s...and its got Love Hangover and Frankie Valli's The Night on it...so that good...

 

oh and by the way..... im thinking of a follow up thread to this on the subject of punk...

 

yeah a punk..how it ruined music could be good - esp from a when indie goesd mainstream perspective..tho maybe it was britpop that could be seen to having killed indie

"yeah a punk..how it ruined music could be good - esp from a when indie goesd mainstream perspective..tho maybe it was britpop that could be seen to having killed indie"

 

Punk didn't ruin music - it evolved. I know you've read "Rip It Up" so you know music didn't stand still and post punk moved music on after the necessary year zero that punk was. I presume this was just a title for discussion and you don't necessarily mean that.

 

I'm totally with you on Britpop ultimately ruining Indie though.

Edited by grebo69

  • Author
"yeah a punk..how it ruined music could be good - esp from a when indie goesd mainstream perspective..tho maybe it was britpop that could be seen to having killed indie"

 

Punk didn't ruin music - it evolved. I know you've read "Rip It Up" so you know music didn't stand still and post punk moved music on after the necessary year zero that punk was. I presume this was just a title for discussion and you don't necessarily mean that.

 

I'm totally with you on Britpop ultimately ruining Indie though.

 

spot on.... but i dont want this thread to drift into a punk debate, i wanted to set the record straight regarding S/A/W and not gloss over them in a 00's style political correct stylee. (everybodies got a right to an opinion.... yeah but lets not forget the FACTS)

  • Author
motown is alright...even tho some of the early motown-pop stuff could be just seen as black american cheesy pop :lol:

 

in regard to motown & its almost henry ford production line mentality...the detroit production line era (backed by people like The Funk Brothers) is the kinda idea people most associate with the genre of motown (you know when you see it written on pub a-boards advertising friday night discos when you walk past) i guess even more than the political and psych-funk stuff that came out afterwards and when the firm moved to LA and released more records with a social conscious....

 

however how good records those were i guess motown is also responsible for some $h!te...

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/StevieWonderIJustCalledToSayILoveYou7InchFrenchSingleCover.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Loves_Alright.jpg

 

i bought my dad a total motown collection not so long ago...and he thought it was rubbish and gave it back to me as it was full of really bad slow jamz from the mid 1980s (like the ones you get on timelife telelshopping) and i guess all the decent tracks from earlier i guess he had already...

 

dont know where that comp has got to but i've got motown chartbusters 10 here but those tracks seem mostly to be from the late 70s...and its got Love Hangover and Frankie Valli's The Night on it...so that good...

yeah a punk..how it ruined music could be good - esp from a when indie goesd mainstream perspective..tho maybe it was britpop that could be seen to having killed indie

 

 

well true..... motown post 1970 was largely DIRE. when i refer to 'motown' though i am refering to 60's music, not 80's shmaltz.

  • Author
But two key differences:

 

1. Stock Aitken & Waterman did not have the fantastic set of musicians "The Funk Brothers" to do the backing tracks and instead had cheap nasty synthesised Euro beat musak instead for their backing tracks.

 

2. Motown re-recorded their backing tracks if different artists used the same song often radically re-intrepreting them depending on the artists in question:

 

Example:

 

Gladys Knight & The Pips - I Heard It Through The Grapevine (1967)

 

Marvin Gaye - I Heard It Through The Grapevine (1968)

 

oh absolutely , its just im not sure how 60's production line motown is percieved by todays younger generation and if the very same argument leveled at watertwat couldnt be levelled against gordy... and i guess by 'haters' of motown and dispite other evidence , they could.

 

well true..... motown post 1970 was largely DIRE. when i refer to 'motown' though i am refering to 60's music, not 80's shmaltz.

 

Yes, but the classic Motown sound ended in 1971 when Berry Gordy moved its operations from Detroit to Los Angeles, and Holland-Dozier-Holland & Norman Whitfield left the Hitsville U.S.A. set up to try their luck elsewhere.

these are alright i guess even tho the cover of long train running sounds also like a rip-off of boy george's generation of love (then again seeing as its like one of only two decent records he has made i guess that could be seen as being alright)

 

Long Train Running and Preacher Man (and moreso the fabulous Only Your Love) were Bananarama at their best, I think - their work with Youth was excellent. Long Train Running's a great cover version - how it should be done. And anyone else think Girls Aloud's people had been watching a bit of Bananarama when they got them to do this video...?

 

]... ahem. :rolleyes:

 

Generations of Love, whilst a superb single (one of the singles of the 1990s, surely?).... you can't forget classics like Church of the Poison Mind, Victims, Il Adore and one of the best songs ever written (and bizarrely - not even ever a single), the jaw-droppingly beautiful 'I Specialise in Loneliness'.....

 

you can't forget classics like Church of the Poison Mind, Victims, Il Adore and one of the best songs ever written (and bizarrely - not even ever a single), the jaw-droppingly beautiful 'I Specialise in Loneliness'.....

 

 

dont know that or il adore (unless its a retitled remake of Ava Adore by The Smashing Pumpkins :lol: ) but will have to find it some other time as me dad's lost my headphones and i dont think my brother would be too pleased if i went up in his room and took his very expensive ones :lol: - dont think boy george would be worth that hassle :lol:

 

 

  • 2 weeks later...
Jesus Loves You's 'I Specialise In Loneliness' is definitely worth a listen... honest ;)
Jesus Loves You's 'I Specialise In Loneliness' is definitely worth a listen... honest ;)

 

 

yeah its actually alright...and you probably wouldnt turn it off it came on your Ultra Best Ever Balearic House Chill Out Classics Album vol552 (tho something like fellow Ultra Best Ever Balearic House Chill Out Album classic La Passionara - below - i think is better in that kinda vibe)....however cannot compensate for all the terrible trash made that he has also been associated with - see guide at bottom of quote - :lol: which is a zillion times worse than anything that Pete Waterman's ever come up with...

 

The Blow Monkeys - La Passionara

 

'I Specialise In Loneliness' would be good if it could be covered by Billie Ray Martin in a style like this below...

 

Hell feat. Billie Ray Martin - Je Regrette Everything

 

Below:

 

A GUIDE TO HOW BAD BOY GEORGE CAN BE - WITH THE BEST STUFF AT THE TOP THE RUBBISH AT THE BOTTOM

 

Seu Jorge - Life On Mars

DAVID BOWIE - LITTLE WONDER

Rick Astley - Together Forever

Babylon Zoo - Spaceman

STARMAN - CULTURE CLUB

 

Yes! usually Boy George and Culture Club can be regarded as being worse than Babylon Zoo - it's a Fact!..as the wombles may say :lol:

  • 11 months later...
  • Author

interestingly, having viewed a re-run of pop britiannia (ep #1) it was amazing just how much manufacturing went on in the 50's! obviously this was before my time! just! lol, but many of the 'big acts' from the 50's were all in the hands of a few producers.

 

young lads being moulded and controled by old men... lol.. sounds familiar?. they didnt think the rock n roll scene would last and they were conscripted into entertainment as much as music. given names (billy fury for eg), put in suits, given songs to perform, yep... early british (and presumably american) rock n roll artists were puppets in the very same way westlife, boyzone etc are now.

 

so is my initial premise that watertwat and co responsible for 'ruining pop' right?... well actually i think this revelation makes him even worse! as he isnt even original! :lol:

 

 

looking at the huge link between performers/producers and the entertainment element in the stars repetoir, it seems like music has come full circle now with reality shows run by old men promoting artists on stage for a tv and music audience on 'x' factor type show is pretty much how rock n roll started out 50 + years ago...

interestingly, having viewed a re-run of pop britiannia (ep #1) it was amazing just how much manufacturing went on in the 50's! obviously this was before my time! just! lol, but many of the 'big acts' from the 50's were all in the hands of a few producers.

 

young lads being moulded and controled by old men... lol.. sounds familiar?. they didnt think the rock n roll scene would last and they were conscripted into entertainment as much as music. given names (billy fury for eg), put in suits, given songs to perform, yep... early british (and presumably american) rock n roll artists were puppets in the very same way westlife, boyzone etc are now.

 

so is my initial premise that watertwat and co responsible for 'ruining pop' right?... well actually i think this revelation makes him even worse! as he isnt even original! :lol:

looking at the huge link between performers/producers and the entertainment element in the stars repetoir, it seems like music has come full circle now with reality shows run by old men promoting artists on stage for a tv and music audience on 'x' factor type show is pretty much how rock n roll started out 50 + years ago...

 

Yes, but that was the whole premise of the entire series, that just as The Beatles and the other acts in the wake of their British Invasion broke down the barriers and seized control artistically so that by the 1970s the top UK acts like Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, David Bowie had pretty much full control of the music they made; so Stock Aitken & Waterman and later Louis Walsh & Simon Cowell have done the reverse and taken things backwards to the extent that if you did a poll on this site as to who has contributed more to the British music industry between Simon Cowell v Paul McCartney .... I reckon Simon Cowell would win.

 

Hence the golden age of British music is seen and was symbolised on the series as running from 1963 (Beatlemania) to 1985 (Live Aid).

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