Do you remember the brilliant BBC Play For Today - The Spongers - the story of a mother of four struggling on benefits - set around the Queen's Jubilee ... wonderful television and I wish they'd repeat it today. At the end - you were left thinking ... who were the real spongers (intentional I'm sure by the writers).

 

I'm too young to remember that tbh... I was about 5 when the Queen had her Silver Jubilee year... :lol: I probably saw a repeat of it at some point, but dont remember much about it.... However, I VIVIDLY remember "Boys From The Black Stuff"... Absolutely fukkin' AMAZING drama, a totally savage, passionate and powerful indictment of the Thatcher era.... The Beeb just do NOT make them like this anymore do they...? :rolleyes:

 

Stands to reason they would generate more dunnit... ? Tourists and the general population would have almost complete access to the Palaces and grounds, as they do in France, there would be a hell of a lot more for us to see...

 

And, I'm sorry, but is the argument "oh, they're good for the tourists" really mean that we as a people should be subjugated by a system which has absolutely NO FUKKIN' RELEVANCE in a modern age...? Feudalism as a system has gone the way of the Dinosaur mate, why should we cling onto these pathetic vestiges of a shameful era... Consign it to history and books, where it belongs.... I am NOT a fukkin' SUBJECT, I am a CITIZEN..... <_< This is the 21st Century mate, not the 16th....

 

And here's you supposedly a fan of Sex Pistols/John Lydon actually in favour of the bloody Royals.... :rolleyes:

 

 

erm...i didnt say i was in favour, i said in unconvinced about the arguments, and whilst i am a fan of lydon, i am not an anarchist! :P

erm...i didnt say i was in favour, i said in unconvinced about the arguments, and whilst i am a fan of lydon, i am not an anarchist! :P

 

So, everyone wanting to do away with the Royals is an "anarchist" eh...? I suppose that makes Oliver Cromwell the first ever "anarchist" then.... And here was me thinking that Cromwell and his followers were "Parliamentarians".... :rolleyes:

 

And I see myself more as being in favour of a type of Radical Structuralism, like Marx, Trotsky or Engels.... :P

whilst i am a fan of lydon, i am not an anarchist! :P

 

I think "Anarchy In The UK" was a bit of a joke tbh, or perhaps Lydon was being metaphorical, using "anarchy" as a term for a general rant against the corrupt capitalist system ("Radical Structuralism In The UK" doesn't quite have the same buzz about it really does it...? :lol: ), but I dont think you can say the same for "God Save The Queen", it's very specific and targeted, I reckon Lydon meant every word he spat out, he's been totally consistent in his hatred for the Royals for about the past 30 odd years, whereas he can hardly refer to himself these days as an "anarchist" as such; so I think "God Save The Queen" is 100% genuine, I really do think he means it maaaaaaaan... :lol:

And this is exactly why The Sex Pistols released "God Save The Queen" in 1977 - the Silver Jubilee year..... And good on them for doing so, they stirred up sh!t that damn well NEEDED stirring.... I would say that this one act righteous musical rebellion is what led the Modern Day Anti-Monarchist charge.... Unlike the Royals, this great song is STILL relevant in 2008.... It's my own alternative National Anthem.... :lol: :lol:

 

Until six days ago you had a case. But as many posters on The Word forum have been posting John Lydon is now the biggest HYPOCRITE in the world of Popular music EVER thanks to this endorsement advert where he trousered a cool £5,000,000, in one 30 second commercial he has invalidated his political beliefs, principles and musical legacy.

 

John Lydon's Country Life Butter Commercial.

 

"Ever get the feeling you've been buttered or does this leave you Pretty Spread?"

 

What next for crying out loud Morrissey advertising British Beef; Sir Paul McCartney endorsing animal fur coats; Radiohead's Thom Yorke becoming a judge on X Factor; Oasis making a groundbreaking innovative album........?

Until six days ago you had a case. But as many posters on The Word forum have been posting John Lydon is now the biggest HYPOCRITE in the world of Popular music EVER thanks to this endorsement advert where he trousered a cool £5,000,000, in one 30 second commercial he has invalidated his political beliefs, principles and musical legacy.

 

John Lydon's Country Life Butter Commercial.

 

"Ever get the feeling you've been buttered or does this leave you Pretty Spread?"

 

What next for crying out loud Morrissey advertising British Beef; Sir Paul McCartney endorsing animal fur coats; Radiohead's Thom Yorke becoming a judge on X Factor; Oasis making a groundbreaking innovative album........?

 

Err, I wasn't aware that John Lydon was a VEGAN at any point, so I think the point is totally stupid and some people need to grow up a bit... It's not hypocrisy, just a bit WEIRD.... Country Life Butter is hardly a controversial product, I'm not aware that the makers of Country Life butter are going around oppressing the masses of Bolivia, El Salvador or Argentina. Neither am I aware that the makers of Country Life butter are destroying the environment, employing child slaves to milk the cows, or are propping up some dodgy third world regime.. If Mr Lydon was endorsing BAE Systems, the manufacturers of landmines, McDonalds or any Nestle products, then you and those idiots on The Word would have a point, but he aint, so you dont..... :P

 

Maybe he actually LIKES Country Life butter, so he agreed to do it, you know, Punk Rockers have to butter their morning toast just like everyone else :lol: .... Therefore, it aint hypocrisy is it, he's advertising summat he would normally use... I own several pairs of Doc Martens and New Rock boots, if they offered me £5 million quid to swan around wearing Doc Martens or New Rocks for a few photos or adverts, Hell, I'd take their money....

...And it has absolutely FUKK ALL to do with his long-time opposition to the Monarchy.... I suppose you'll be telling me that Claire Raynor is a hypocrite for opposing the Queen because she advertised something about a decade ago....

 

TBH, I find it kinda funny that he's out there flogging butter.... Hell, I buy Country Life Spreadable for my toast, have done for ages (long before Mr Lydon's campaign) suppose I'm a hypocrite too.... Well, unfortunately I dont live on a Socialist collective farm just now, nor do I have a cow grazing in the very small back garden so I cant churn my own quite just yet...... :lol: :lol:

So, everyone wanting to do away with the Royals is an "anarchist" eh...? I suppose that makes Oliver Cromwell the first ever "anarchist" then.... And here was me thinking that Cromwell and his followers were "Parliamentarians".... :rolleyes:

 

And I see myself more as being in favour of a type of Radical Structuralism, like Marx, Trotsky or Engels.... :P

 

Well someone who is English through & through with no Celtic blood in me since the 1840s.

 

Forgetting the fact that I like many historians regard him as a regicidal dictator.

 

Oliver Cromwell was a f***ing disaster for the country, because you fully approve of ethnic cleansing then do you?

 

"upon all of these Cromwell's record was a lasting bane. By an uncompleted process of terror, by an iniquitous land settlement, by the virtual proscription of the Catholic religion, by the bloody deeds already described, he cut new gulfs between the nations and the creeds. 'Hell or Connaught' were the terms he thrust upon the native inhabitants, and they for their part, across three hundred years, have used as their keenest expression of hatred 'The Curse of Cromwell on you.' ... Upon all of us there still lies 'the curse of Cromwell' © Winston Churchill.

 

If you think that Cromwell was so brilliant then you are endorsing an evil Presbyterian who saw to it that 300,000 to 450,000 Catholics or Royalists were executed, burned, killed in battle or sold into slavery abroad of which over half were from Ireland. How tolerent.

 

Whilst his persecution of Royalist supporters & sympathisers who largely lived in the countryside saw it that by the end of his life time there were a shortage of food crops produced within the British Isle by the end of his dictatorship which led to food shortages and famine in some areas due to higher food prices leading to misery & ruin for the common man who had been so much better off under the Charles I.

 

So it is easy to see why he became such a role model for Lenin, Stalin & Mugabe. :lol:

 

Or as Simon Schama regards him (for reasons given above) in his historical trilogy A History Of Britain "A Proto Fascist" & "the fore-runner of Political Correctness today" due to arguing that his radical actions were driven by his zeal for godly reformation.

 

In short CROMWELL is NUMBER ONE in my list of most hated Historical Britains of all-time.

 

As for Marx, Trotsky or Engels :angry:...... just don't get me started on what they represent I have not got time nor the inclination to write a thesis on why the The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, et al & the socialist/communist totalitarian regime model will never work, because as the USSR & China have proved in the past it gets rid of human rights to an extreme level, invades freedom of thought, and it totally demotivational with regards arts, culture, enterprise & innotative leading to a breakdown of productivity. By creating a all-knowing government which uses pervasive and constant surveillance of the populace, insidious and blatant propaganda, and brutal control over its citizens.

 

All I'll say is doubters just go and read George Orwell's Nineteen-Eighty-Four.

Well someone who is English through & through with no Celtic blood in me since the 1840s.

 

Forgetting the fact that I like many historians regard him as a regicidal dictator.

 

Oliver Cromwell was a f***ing disaster for the country, because you fully approve of ethnic cleansing then do you?

 

"upon all of these Cromwell's record was a lasting bane. By an uncompleted process of terror, by an iniquitous land settlement, by the virtual proscription of the Catholic religion, by the bloody deeds already described, he cut new gulfs between the nations and the creeds. 'Hell or Connaught' were the terms he thrust upon the native inhabitants, and they for their part, across three hundred years, have used as their keenest expression of hatred 'The Curse of Cromwell on you.' ... Upon all of us there still lies 'the curse of Cromwell' © Winston Churchill.

 

If you think that Cromwell was so brilliant then you are endorsing an evil Presbyterian who saw to it that 300,000 to 450,000 Catholics or Royalists were executed, burned, killed in battle or sold into slavery abroad of which over half were from Ireland. How tolerent.

 

Whilst his persecution of Royalist supporters & sympathisers who largely lived in the countryside saw it that by the end of his life time there were a shortage of food crops produced within the British Isle by the end of his dictatorship which led to food shortages and famine in some areas due to higher food prices leading to misery & ruin for the common man who had been so much better off under the Charles I.

 

So it is easy to see why he became such a role model for Lenin, Stalin & Mugabe. :lol:

 

Or as Simon Schama regards him (for reasons given above) in his historical trilogy A History Of Britain "A Proto Fascist" & "the fore-runner of Political Correctness today" due to arguing that his radical actions were driven by his zeal for godly reformation.

 

In short CROMWELL is NUMBER ONE in my list of most hated Historical Britains of all-time.

 

As for Marx, Trotsky or Engels :angry:...... just don't get me started on what they represent I have not got time nor the inclination to write a thesis on why the The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, et al & the socialist/communist totalitarian regime model will never work, because as the USSR & China have proved in the past it gets rid of human rights to an extreme level, invades freedom of thought, and it totally demotivational with regards arts, culture, enterprise & innotative leading to a breakdown of productivity. By creating a all-knowing government which uses pervasive and constant surveillance of the populace, insidious and blatant propaganda, and brutal control over its citizens.

 

All I'll say is doubters just go and read George Orwell's Nineteen-Eighty-Four.

 

And, er what does Stalinism have to do with Marx....? Stalinism has about as much to do with Marxism as Social Darwinism and Eugenics had to do with Charles Darwin's original theory of Evolution, and Trotsky was one of STALIN's victims FFS in case you'd forgotten..... :rolleyes: And if you actually knew a damn thing about George Orwell, you would know of his life-long Leftist/Marxist political beliefs, his objections were to Stalinism and 1984 could just as easily be applied to a Fascist or Police State, or indeed, be applied to the sort of "surveillance culture" we live in now... TODAY.... Blatant Propaganda???? Constant surveillance???? Control over citizens???? Yep, sounds like UK of 2008 under "Comrade Gordon", the successor of "Big Brother Tony".... :P

 

By mentioning Cromwell, it wasn't actually my intention to praise him. Mushy implied that all who opposed Royalty were anarchists, I mentioned Cromwell because he was anything but an Anarchist... I thought he was a fukkin' fascist as well, the complete opposite of an Anarchist.... Still, if he'd kept to just killing Royals and Aristos he'd've gotten my respect....

I bet Brian wishes he hadn't posted this now! What has he started?

 

Norma

I bet Brian wishes he hadn't posted this now! What has he started?

 

Norma

 

LOL, yeah probably...

 

I'm totally fukkin' sick of the scaremongering of Royalists such as Richard though... As if a DEMOCRATIC, ACCOUNTABLE "Presidential" Head of State system necessarily has to mean we turn it into a system like the Americans, or if getting rid of Royals automatically means people like Stalin, Putin or Cromwell would take control.... Bollocks it would.. We could have a Republican state system modelled on France or Germany, or perhaps Australia when it finally unshackles itself from being tied to the UK royals ....? For how much longer will the Aussies tolerate the Queen as Head of State I wonder....? Don't see it being much longer tbh... At least THEY are actually having the debate and holding referendums, WE are given NO FUKKIN' CHOICE....

 

And besides, as far as I'm concerned, however flawed the French, US or German Heads of State may be, it's still better to have a system built upon a PUBLIC mandate and not one built upon an accident of birth or privelege....

 

And, er what does Stalinism have to do with Marx....? Stalinism has about as much to do with Marxism as Social Darwinism and Eugenics had to do with Charles Darwin's original theory of Evolution, and Trotsky was one of STALIN's victims FFS in case you'd forgotten..... :rolleyes: And if you actually knew a damn thing about George Orwell, you would know of his life-long Leftist/Marxist political beliefs, his objections were to Stalinism and 1984 could just as easily be applied to a Fascist or Police State, or indeed, be applied to the sort of "surveillance culture" we live in now... TODAY.... Blatant Propaganda???? Constant surveillance???? Control over citizens???? Yep, sounds like UK of 2008 under "Comrade Gordon", the successor of "Big Brother Tony".... :P

 

You just don't get it, do you? :D

 

Three words "Power Corruption Lies"

 

Unfortunately it is irrelevent what Marx & Engels meant when wrote their Socialist literature, because it was ultimately taken as an ideological blue print then twisted by the Russian revolutionaries into what has become the Communist doctrine and all that it entailed.

 

Not unlike having a party in a house and inviting a few friends along, but then others here about and before you know it they have taken over the party and are wrecking the joint.

 

That is EXACTLY why I deliberately referenced George Orwell (I could easily have included Animal Farm, but I think some posters on here would think I was referring to a different more carnal Animal Farm :lol:) because he was fully aware of how Lenin, Stalin, etc had hijacked Marx's & Engels works & ideologies to become something far more sinister.

 

Not unlike a certain song (Katy Perry - UR So Gay that was written specifically at her ex-boyfriend (Fall Out Boy's Pete Wentz) regarding his metrosexual look and a phrase he & other Emos used to mean a compliment (like Rad in the 1980s)), but has been taken out of its original context to mean something else.

:lol:

 

LOL, yeah probably...

 

I'm totally fukkin' sick of the scaremongering of Royalists such as Richard though... As if a DEMOCRATIC, ACCOUNTABLE "Presidential" Head of State system necessarily has to mean we turn it into a system like the Americans, or if getting rid of Royals automatically means people like Stalin, Putin or Cromwell would take control.... Bollocks it would.. We could have a Republican state system modelled on France or Germany, or perhaps Australia when it finally unshackles itself from being tied to the UK royals ....? For how much longer will the Aussies tolerate the Queen as Head of State I wonder....? Don't see it being much longer tbh... At least THEY are actually having the debate and holding referendums, WE are given NO FUKKIN' CHOICE....

 

And besides, as far as I'm concerned, however flawed the French, US or German Heads of State may be, it's still better to have a system built upon a PUBLIC mandate and not one built upon an accident of birth or privelege....

 

What planet are you living on. We have a DEMOCRATIC ACCOUNTABLE "Presidential Head of State" already = The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in case it has escaped your attention.

 

Since which year have the Royal Family had POWER to affect a political decision making and interfere in the democratic system.

 

ANSWER: Not since 1721.

 

Scott, that has to be a contender for one of the daftest posts you have made on Buzzjack.

 

The Royal Family might be Head of State but that is all it is. The role is entirely ceremonial and f*** all political, but hey I guess you'd rather have Aussie Republican media mogul Rupert Murdoch's propaganda machine (Sky News & The Sun Newspaper) or a Simon Cowell produced show decide who our ceremonial Head of State is?

 

Oooh I can see it now the dilemma now.........:

 

Geordie voiceover "So will you vote for Wayne Rooney; Jade Goody; Elton John; Jamie Oliver or David Jason? YOU DECIDE". :rofl:

 

 

What planet are you living on. We have a DEMOCRATIC ACCOUNTABLE "Presidential Head of State" already = The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in case it has escaped your attention.

 

Since which year have the Royal Family had POWER to affect a political decision making and interfere in the democratic system.

 

ANSWER: Not since 1721.

 

Scott, that has to be a contender for one of the daftest posts you have made on Buzzjack.

 

The Royal Family might be Head of State but that is all it is. The role is entirely ceremonial and f*** all political, but hey I guess you'd rather have Aussie Republican media mogul Rupert Murdoch's propaganda machine (Sky News & The Sun Newspaper) or a Simon Cowell produced show decide who our ceremonial Head of State is?

 

Oooh I can see it now the dilemma now.........:

 

Geordie voiceover "So will you vote for Wayne Rooney; Jade Goody; Elton John; Jamie Oliver or David Jason? YOU DECIDE". :rofl:

 

WTF are you on about....???? They may not have "power" as such, but the Queen IS the de-facto Head of State.... And while people such as yourself continue to not take this sh!t SERIOUSLY we will continue to be "subjects" of the crown as opposed to "citizens" of a Democratic Republic, as the French and Germans are.... I'm sorry, but I have far more respect for the French and German than I do you fukkin' tw@ts who continue to be blinded by this privelege-led, unaccountable "Monarchy" that we all have to suffer... Why the fukk do we have to suffer this sh"t....? TOURISM?????? Fukk off.... <_<

 

However "accountable" the PM may be, he or she STILL has to go through the ceremonies, the "traditions", the anachronistic bullsh!t which we DONT FUKKIN NEED in a UK of 2008... Why, oh WHY do people such as you feel the necessity to cling onto this pathetic pomp and ceremony.....? The "State Opening" of Parliament...? Having to get "permission" from the Queen to hold an election or form a Govt.... IT'S FUKKIN' BULLSH"T WHICH BELONGS TO THE DARK AGES........

 

And GOD FORBID that one of the Royal Princes might want to marry someone form a CATHOLIC background... Sh!t, they'd have to give up their right to ascension of the throne!!!!!! Christ only knows what would happen if one of them wanted to marry a MUSLIM or a BLACK person!!!!!!!!! Another traffic accident perhaps...?????

That is EXACTLY why I deliberately referenced George Orwell (I could easily have included Animal Farm, but I think some posters on here would think I was referring to a different more carnal Animal Farm :lol:) because he was fully aware of how Lenin, Stalin, etc had hijacked Marx's & Engels works & ideologies to become something far more sinister.

 

But it still doesn't detract from the fact that Orwell was a believer in the principles of Marx and Engels does it....? I'm sorry, but I just do not believe that a Socialist system automatically means something bad or evil is gonna turn out of it... Cuba, Bolivia and Venezuela seem to be doing okay out of it, it seems to work okay for the majority, and at least Cubans can get proper healthcare, unlike the 50 million Americans who got fukked over by their greedy HMOs, but hey, you still keep beliving that Castro, Morales and Chavez are the bad guys, and that George Dubya and Gordon Broon are the good guys...

 

And the Swedish system of a liberal, Democratic Socialism is absolutely laudable. Shame our own "Labour" party dont learn a few tricks from our Scandinavian friends.....

 

ooops... looks like i missed a good debate! :lol:

ooops... looks like i missed a good debate! :lol:

 

I think you and I are well out of it Rob! Its getting way too heavy for me to handle any more! I hope Brian thinks long and hard before posting contentious articles like this again! :lol:

 

Norma

I think you and I are well out of it Rob! Its getting way too heavy for me to handle any more!

 

You called 'em "spongers" though Norma, on more than one occasion :lol: , so you were certainly dishing it out to the buggers as much as anyone.... :lol:

 

You called 'em "spongers" though Norma, on more than one occasion :lol: , so you were certainly dishing it out to the buggers as much as anyone.... :lol:

 

Yes ... but you and Richard are starting to use big words now! I don't like big words. But it takes nothing away from my desire to see the monarchy abolished ... I just can no longer take part in an argument where I have no big words to add! However if someone is starting a petition to get rid of them .... I'll sign ... and I'll join in any marches ... I like walking - ask Rob ... I used to walk to and from my first job - 17 miles each way every day!

 

Norma

... I like walking - ask Rob ... I used to walk to and from my first job - 17 miles each way every day!

 

Norma

 

oh hold on... have i missed the point that your first job was as a postman (woman)?...:lol: in which case 17 miles is easy!