What do you think? Is Gordon responsible for the boom and bust?

Frankly, yes I do believe that he is... The Labour Party (and Brown in particular) while in Opposition were rightly critical of the fiscal policies of Chancellors such as Lawson, Major, Lamont, etc... When the "Black Wednesday" crisis in the early 90s happened, Labour absolutely leapt on the "boom and bust" policies of Thatcher and her Chancellors, condemning them as being the ones ultimately responsible; now that something even worse has occurred, Broon can blame no one but himself, at the end of the day, HE is the one who sat in No 11 for over a decade formulating the fiscal policies of this country.. He and Nu Labor claimed that they had something better to offer us than Tory "boom and bust" when they got elected in 1997; that was just an absolute fukkin' lie.... Nu Labor has given us nothing but the same old Tory sh!te, oh, and with the added "bonus" of getting pouring money down HUGE administrative black holes in the Public Sector, particularly the NHS, which has more bloody accountants, managers and consultants it seems than actual DOCTORS or NURSES, and of course the billions spent on the illegal war in Iraq.....

 

Of course, the question is, would the Tories have done any better....? I doubt that..... Is it not time to give the other guys a chance....? I really am sick of the fukkin' Two Party system in this country, it just seems to me that we allow the same dickheads to make the same mistakes time and time again.... Nothing ever changes in this country.... :rolleyes:

nope.... i dont blame him

 

house prices often go through a period of 're-alignment' after rising sharply they have a 'hic cup' and prices temporarily fall.

 

ok this time its more severe, but it was triggered by the american banks loaning too much to their homeowners and having it go t*ts up that caused this current house price fall.

 

anyway, its all accedemic, if you are moving you wont pay so much for the place you are moving too, but wont get as much for your current home.... its all reletive.

nope.... i dont blame him

 

You would if he were a Tory Rob.... :rolleyes:

 

I just dont get you sometimes, why the fukk are you so willing to forgive and overlook the clear failings of this Govt....? The c**k-ups they've committed are as severe as anything the Tories ever did, Nu Labor is as socially divisive as Thatcherism as well, not to mention the fact that, like Thatch, they're a bunch of bloody war criminals <_< ... You forgive these people WAY too much dude, and it does smack of double standards....

it was triggered by the american banks loaning too much to their homeowners and having it go t*ts up that caused this current house price fall.

 

It's bollocks to blame the Yanks for all of it mate.... I remember banks and building societies offering 100% mortgages, hell one or two even offering 120%. Fukkin' CRAZY sh!t..... :wacko: And as Postie I vividly remember delivering bucketloads of sh"te from credit card companies almost on a daily basis.... And we wonder why the "Credit Crunch" happened..... :rolleyes:

 

Broon did nothing to reign these people in, he did nothing to curb the excesses of The City... So, as far as I'm concerned, Broon is very much ON the hook for this, partly at any rate....

 

You would if he were a Tory Rob.... :rolleyes:

 

I just dont get you sometimes, why the fukk are you so willing to forgive and overlook the clear failings of this Govt....? The c**k-ups they've committed are as severe as anything the Tories ever did, Nu Labor is as socially divisive as Thatcherism as well, not to mention the fact that, like Thatch, they're a bunch of bloody war criminals <_< ... You forgive these people WAY too much dude, and it does smack of double standards....

 

thats going off the topic abit... yes the war was wrong.

 

but we will NEVER in the real world get a perfect government, someone will allways find summut to moan about.

 

ive seen great improvements under noo labour for many. investment in schools being a prime example as EVERY school ive worked in has after years of stagnation, got alot of new governmewnt cash. besides the fact that domestic economics have been good... hell, for the sensible they aint too bad now, if you are not too greedy and are willing to 'ride it out' .

but we will NEVER in the real world get a perfect government, someone will allways find summut to moan about.

 

ive seen great improvements under noo labour for many. investment in schools being a prime example as EVERY school ive worked in has after years of stagnation, got alot of new governmewnt cash. besides the fact that domestic economics have been good... hell, for the sensible they aint too bad now, if you are not too greedy and are willing to 'ride it out' .

 

People voted for a CHANGE in '97 mate, they promised us things in that Manifesto that they utterly failed to deliver.... Broken promises are a betrayal of the goodwill of the people mate, end of... The change in fortunes from winning by a landslide to being in total disarray now are a symptom of that betrayal. No other party has lost as many members in living memory mate, not even the Tories, Labour party finances are a complete shambles as a documentary made by Channel 4 a few years back proved... And when you start losing safe seats like Glasgow East, then you truly are fukked.... :rolleyes:

 

I'm not even convinced by these so-called "improvements" in education... Teachers are drowning in paperwork, hamstrung by the National Curriculum, the complete, ahem, "Balls-up" of the SATs this year, "League Tables" which are just utter bullsh!t.... Er, do I need to go on....? You're talking about the bricks and mortar mate, I'm talking about what actually goes on inside the buildings and classrooms....

 

if anybody believed that nu labour would/could deliver on every point of their 97 manifesto, then they are STUPID!. i didnt see those pledges as 'promises' per se, but 'promise to aimt for', they were goals, many of which they have implemented.

if anybody believed that nu labour would/could deliver on every point of their 97 manifesto, then they are STUPID!.

 

RIIIIIGGHHHHT... So, we're all stupid for actually expecting something a bit better than what we had for the previous 18 bloody years then..... :rolleyes: We're all stupid to believe them when they said they were going to handle things better and stop the 'boom and bust' cycle, reign in Capitalistic excesses and actually have a bit more regard for the common working class person....

 

NONE of which they've done by the way.... And the "improvements" in education and NHS are an utter falsehood as well.... Yeah, more money going in sure, but that aint exactly translating into better healthcare or better education standards now is it....?

 

Sorry mate, but these c/unts LIED to us, and boy are they gonna pay for it come the next Election..... Still, I'm betting you stupid English will still keep voting for the same two old, hoary, corrupt, incompentent parties you always do and no real change will actually happen in this country which a third way would perhaps deliver.... :rolleyes:

RIIIIIGGHHHHT... So, we're all stupid for actually expecting something a bit better than what we had for the previous 18 bloody years then..... :rolleyes: We're all stupid to believe them when they said they were going to handle things better and stop the 'boom and bust' cycle, reign in Capitalistic excesses and actually have a bit more regard for the common working class person....

 

i didnt say that...

 

and yes, they DID deliver a better economy then we had in the previous 18 years. but NO ONE can 'promise' to deliver anything in the future as no one knows exactly how the economies of the world will behave.

 

fact... we had a far better, stable, growth in the economy under new labour then we had previously enjoyed...certainly in my adult lifetime!. was it as rosey as it was portrayed to be in 97?...no... but they set their targets and by and large attained them.

 

lowest period of inflation, lowest mortgage repayments, a low period of unemployment... the economy grew, investment in the infrastructure of schools/hospitals, minimum wage, ban on foxhunting... the list goes on... fact is we are in a better position then we were in 97.

lowest period of inflation, lowest mortgage repayments, a low period of unemployment... the economy grew, investment in the infrastructure of schools/hospitals, minimum wage, ban on foxhunting... the list goes on... fact is we are in a better position then we were in 97.

 

But that's all completely academic now mate, because now it's all gone t!ts up because Gordon couldn't keep a handle on things, certain people in the City and Banking industry whose greedy, capitalist excesses have fukked us all over; the very SAME sort of greedy, Capitalist pigs who fukked things up under the previous adminsitration by the way; and now it's us, the ordinary punter, who has to pick up the tab for THEIR incompetence and irresponsibility, yeah, like they've been so fukkin' understanding towards small businesses and homeowners experiencing difficulties haven't they....? <_< You simply CANNOT blame the Americans for it all, when banks and credit card companies over this side of the pond have been giving out credit like sweeties... It's called the "Credit Crunch" for a reason mate.... ;)

 

As for "minimum wage", well, you already know my opinions on that... I'll give them the ban on Foxhunting, fair enough, but certain individuals have been finding ways around that one because Nu Labor actually watered down the proposals to appease the Lords.... :rolleyes:

I agree that all of Labour's economic achievements are now completely academic. Like I said in the other thread, yes Brown's work as Chancellor probably brought us greater short-term prosperity than we would've had otherwise, but we are paying the price for that now - while we would've almost certainly be going into recession regardless, Brown's work over the last decade will have probably made this recession deeper than it would've been otherwise.

Having said that, I do think that, unlike Thatcher, Reagan and Bush, Brown had reasonably good intentions. I do believe that he felt a Thatcherite model with his few tweaks would benefit the working-class more than other feasible models. I just don't think he ever believed (or perhaps never wanted to believe) that his policies would ever fall in on themselves like they now have (and to be fair, it is true that they probably wouldn't've done in if the American crisis hadn't triggered it). Nevertheless, we do definitely need far more regulation in the future - we need an economy with less potential than we're used to, but far more security.

labours gains ARNT acedemic.... we are still enjoying them even if theres a slight blip, a set back to the gradual rise in the standard of living we are enjoying. we are STILL better off then we were in 97 as a whole, schools and hospitals still have the new buildings!! lol, there IS a minimum wage...etc... and the roots of this current crisis IS fairly set in the american banks/housing market..

Nevertheless, we do definitely need far more regulation in the future - we need an economy with less potential than we're used to, but far more security.

 

Exactly... Take the French model for example, just TRY getting a mortgage there if you cant really afford one, 'tis impossible, and you need to have a substantial deposit behind you before a bank will even look at your proposal, you simply do NOT get 100% mortgages in France... And very few French people use Credit Cards in comparison to Brits and Americans; the French have been far more canny with their finances generally, and from reports that I've seen on BBC News, they aren't actually experiencing the same difficulties that we are because they're following a more traditional system of banking and personal finances based on the sort of prudence that Gordon Brown was banging on about...

we are still enjoying them even if theres a slight blip,

 

There is nothing "slight" about this crisis mate, you're sounding a bit like Peter Jones here mate LOL..... I mean, come on, how the hell can you underestimate this when the experts out there are saying this is the worst financial crisis since the 1930s Great Depression.... ROFLMAO..... Sorry, but by saying that, you've just proven that you aint really up to date on the facts or the cause-and-effect of all this... The US took almost 20 years to fully recover from the Great Depression and enjoy the prosperity it had in the 1950s/60s, an entire generation of Americans were affected by this catastrophe as well as the War....

 

As for schools and hospitals, well, yeah, they may have the new buildings, but buildings dont teach our kids or heal the sick do they....? :rolleyes: Again, you are not looking at the fundamental crises which are affecting both these areas, which has nothing to do with financing so much, as the management of patient care, teaching and of public finances, all of which are absolutely tragic tbh.... Bureaucracy and gross mismanagement of funds is absolutely RIFE and is turning our once proud educational and healthcare institutions into a national disgrace which is an embarrassment to us all... Of course, this rot started with the Tories, no doubt about that, but Nu Labor has done little or nothing to turn the tide as far as I can see.... I mean, I know people who work in schools and hospitals and frankly they would view your postitivity about Nu Labor's way of doing things as a bad joke, these are people who love their jobs, they want to help people get well, they want to give kids the educational tools they need to get on in life, they just cannot stand what Central Govt is doing to their professions and to the people they are supposed to help; and why the fukk should they have to put up with that cr@p....?

 

There is nothing "slight" about this crisis mate, you're sounding a bit like Peter Jones here mate LOL..... I mean, come on, how the hell can you underestimate this when the experts out there are saying this is the worst financial crisis since the 1930s Great Depression.... ROFLMAO..... Sorry, but by saying that, you've just proven that you aint really up to date on the facts or the cause-and-effect of all this... The US took almost 20 years to fully recover from the Great Depression and enjoy the prosperity it had in the 1950s/60s, an entire generation of Americans were affected by this catastrophe as well as the War....

 

As for schools and hospitals, well, yeah, they may have the new buildings, but buildings dont teach our kids or heal the sick do they....? :rolleyes: Again, you are not looking at the fundamental crises which are affecting both these areas, which has nothing to do with financing so much, as the management of patient care, teaching and of public finances, all of which are absolutely tragic tbh.... Bureaucracy and gross mismanagement of funds is absolutely RIFE and is turning our once proud educational and healthcare institutions into a national disgrace which is an embarrassment to us all... Of course, this rot started with the Tories, no doubt about that, but Nu Labor has done little or nothing to turn the tide as far as I can see.... I mean, I know people who work in schools and hospitals and frankly they would view your postitivity about Nu Labor's way of doing things as a bad joke, these are people who love their jobs, they want to help people get well, they want to give kids the educational tools they need to get on in life, they just cannot stand what Central Govt is doing to their professions and to the people they are supposed to help; and why the fukk should they have to put up with that cr@p....?

 

the worst since the 1930?.... :lol: BOLLOX it is! :lol:

 

only this morning they were saying it wont be as bad as the early 90's. the facts are that there will NEVER be a period of growth with no set backs, these recessions happen, its normal, things need to re-aligne

 

like it or not... and no ones does, there has always been mismanagement in education and hospitals, in the very same way that there will NEVER be a perfect government. ok, its a thing to aim for, but never ever expect it to happen .

It is very true that this crisis could well have been as bad as the Great Depression, and it's only because of a huge intervention from global govts, which have generated unprecedented levels of public debt, that we might avoid another. Even as it is, most economists agree that we're realistically looking at something as bad as the late 70s. This is far, far more than a normal "re-aligning" recession.

Like it or not, Brown's economic policies have now been widely discredited, and they are widely seen as completely unfeasible going into the future. Even though, like I said, I personally think that Brown had good intentions, and that he has arguably single-handedly saved global financial meltdown the last few weeks, it is still beyond doubt that Labour's economic policy of the last 10 years has failed. To point out advantages we've seen over the past 10 years when those advantages are coming at such a cost now is splitting hairs.

Edited October 20, 200816 yr by Danny

the worst since the 1930?.... :lol: BOLLOX it is! :lol:

 

only this morning they were saying it wont be as bad as the early 90's. the facts are that there will NEVER be a period of growth with no set backs, these recessions happen, its normal, things need to re-aligne

 

Dear Lord, this has to be just about the most daft thing you've posted EVER... Not as bad as "Black Wednesday"??? Who IS this tw@t....? Source please, I'd quite like to google this guy just to see what the hell actually qualifies him/her to make this statement, because, frankly this is TOTALLY at odds with just about every report in Financial Times, Wall St Journal and just about every peer-reviewed Journal article from actual EXPERTS that I've personally heard about.... Yeah, some tw@t off the telly spouts a 2-3 minute soundbite and all the complacent drongoes believe it.... :rolleyes:

 

Also, I must've missed the two very LARGE financial institutions having to be nationalised, the HUGE profit losses in institutions such as Barclays, RBS, Lloyds, TSB, BoS, Halifax (you know, when these actually WERE separate financial institutions and hadn't been virtually forced into a merger :lol: :lol:, so now I guess the acronym for this institution is gonna be LTSBHBOS before long... ROFLMAO....), the HUGE public sector bail-outs, the $700bn bail-out for Wall St.... But of course all of this MUST have happened right, I mean, this "expert" on TV is claiming the "Black Wednesday" crisis is worst than this crisis....

 

As for "natural re-alignment", what utter bollocks.... Okay, let's take away the nationalising of Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley, let's take away the $700bn bail out, and let's just fukkin' well see how "natural" this all is..... The ONLY, and I mean ONLY reason that a catastrophe of Great Depression proportions has been averted is because of the bail-outs put into place by Broon and Dubya (well, not so much him, cos he's as thick as fukkin' PIGSH!T, he's lucky that he has considerably smarter people than him to mentor him in stuff he knows bugger all about, so I guess he has a seperate Mentor just about everything really..... ^_^ ) put in place, we'd probably all be going to SOUP KITCHENS in 2009.... Of course, I give these c/unts no credit whatsoever because to me they're just mopping up the sh!t they put us in in the first place, OF COURSE THEY SHOULD'VE ACTED BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY......

 

This sort of blind, stupid complacency is exactly WHY a very significant part of me is totally against all this "bail-out" nonsense.... Now the lie is being propogated that "things weren't all that bad", "everything's gonna be okay", blah, blah.... No, it's NOT okay, we just happened to dodge a very, very fukkin' LARGE bullet the size of a cruise missile here, and to downplay this in any way whatsoever is naive, complacent and frankly fukkin' idiotic.... This, to me, is what is wrong with excessive, blind Capitalism, it pushes us all to the edge of a very, very huge cliff and then acts as if it did absolutely nothing wrong, that it wasn't really gonna chuck us off the cliff edge just so it could make a quick buck.... These people actually believe that their excesses can continue unabated; well, who's to say they're wrong, they've been bailed out by the US and UK Govts.... <_< And do you honestly believe that Broon is gonna actually put any restrictions into place to curb these people...? Is he fukk.... Because he is WEAK, and incapable stand up to these people....

 

As Micheal Moore once said "A Capitalist will sell you the rope you're gonna hang him with just so long as he makes a few bucks...". He's totally spot on in that statement... These people care about nothing but money, no matter who or what it destroys... Frankly, these c/unts are worse than the likes of The Krays or Ronnie Biggs....

Dear Lord, this has to be just about the most daft thing you've posted EVER... Not as bad as "Black Wednesday"??? Who IS this tw@t....? Source please, I'd quite like to google this guy just to see what the hell actually qualifies him/her to make this statement, because, frankly this is TOTALLY at odds with just about every report in Financial Times, Wall St Journal and just about every peer-reviewed Journal article from actual EXPERTS that I've personally heard about.... Yeah, some tw@t off the telly spouts a 2-3 minute soundbite and all the complacent drongoes believe it.... :rolleyes:

 

Also, I must've missed the two very LARGE financial institutions having to be nationalised, the HUGE profit losses in institutions such as Barclays, RBS, Lloyds, TSB, BoS, Halifax (you know, when these actually WERE separate financial institutions and hadn't been virtually forced into a merger :lol: :lol:, so now I guess the acronym for this institution is gonna be LTSBHBOS before long... ROFLMAO....), the HUGE public sector bail-outs, the $700bn bail-out for Wall St.... But of course all of this MUST have happened right, I mean, this "expert" on TV is claiming the "Black Wednesday" crisis is worst than this crisis....

 

As for "natural re-alignment", what utter bollocks.... Okay, let's take away the nationalising of Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley, let's take away the $700bn bail out, and let's just fukkin' well see how "natural" this all is..... The ONLY, and I mean ONLY reason that a catastrophe of Great Depression proportions has been averted is because of the bail-outs put into place by Broon and Dubya (well, not so much him, cos he's as thick as fukkin' PIGSH!T, he's lucky that he has considerably smarter people than him to mentor him in stuff he knows bugger all about, so I guess he has a seperate Mentor just about everything really..... ^_^ ) put in place, we'd probably all be going to SOUP KITCHENS in 2009.... Of course, I give these c/unts no credit whatsoever because to me they're just mopping up the sh!t they put us in in the first place, OF COURSE THEY SHOULD'VE ACTED BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY......

 

This sort of blind, stupid complacency is exactly WHY a very significant part of me is totally against all this "bail-out" nonsense.... Now the lie is being propogated that "things weren't all that bad", "everything's gonna be okay", blah, blah.... No, it's NOT okay, we just happened to dodge a very, very fukkin' LARGE bullet the size of a cruise missile here, and to downplay this in any way whatsoever is naive, complacent and frankly fukkin' idiotic.... This, to me, is what is wrong with excessive, blind Capitalism, it pushes us all to the edge of a very, very huge cliff and then acts as if it did absolutely nothing wrong, that it wasn't really gonna chuck us off the cliff edge just so it could make a quick buck.... These people actually believe that their excesses can continue unabated; well, who's to say they're wrong, they've been bailed out by the US and UK Govts.... <_< And do you honestly believe that Broon is gonna actually put any restrictions into place to curb these people...? Is he fukk.... Because he is WEAK, and incapable stand up to these people....

 

As Micheal Moore once said "A Capitalist will sell you the rope you're gonna hang him with just so long as he makes a few bucks...". He's totally spot on in that statement... These people care about nothing but money, no matter who or what it destroys... Frankly, these c/unts are worse than the likes of The Krays or Ronnie Biggs....

 

 

the truth is... youll NEVER be happy... youll ALWAYS moan and complain and make ott sweeping statements. :lol:

 

im talking as a person whos employed, a bill payer, a mortgage payer, someone with megre investments, someone who is fully affected by the financial crisis. from my perspective this 'crisis' isnt half as bad as the last recession.. so when a reports findings are aired on bbc news and back up what im experiencing... i tend to believe they are talking something like the facts!

 

 

...oh and likening this crisis to the great depression of the 1930's IS the most stupid thing YOU have ever posted! :P