October 21, 200816 yr ...oh and likening this crisis to the great depression of the 1930's IS the most stupid thing YOU have ever posted! :P No, it aint, and like I say, if it wasn't purely for the bail-out, you, your business, and your meagre investements would be fukked mate.... AND you damn well know it, I (and just about every economist out there) absolutely maintain that we dodged a very big bullet .... The Great Depression probably wouldn't have itself happened had a massive bail-out on this scale taken place, but a massive bail-out such as this one simply was not possible in the 30s, or if it was, there certainly was no will to actually do it, FAR too much like Communism... :rolleyes: But you just carry on believing that Capitalism is so fukkin' perfect, even though it's SOCIALISM that's bailed everyone out.... :rolleyes:
October 21, 200816 yr the truth is... youll NEVER be happy... youll ALWAYS moan and complain and make ott sweeping statements. :lol: im talking as a person whos employed, a bill payer, a mortgage payer, someone with megre investments, someone who is fully affected by the financial crisis. from my perspective this 'crisis' isnt half as bad as the last recession.. so when a reports findings are aired on bbc news and back up what im experiencing... i tend to believe they are talking something like the facts! I refer you to what Ian Hislop and Paul Merton said on "Have I Got News for You" on Friday night... Merton - Isn't Gordon Brown the man who saved the world...? Hislop - Well, only in the sense that he chucked you a lifeline to save you from drowning, only to admit he pushed you in in the first place..... SPOT ON...... Guest panellist, and well-known Leftist thinker, Mark Steel was a very happy man as well on Friday night's show.... Well, he should be, the Left has been proven right :lol: :lol:
October 21, 200816 yr im talking as a person whos employed, a bill payer, a mortgage payer, someone with megre investments, someone who is fully affected by the financial crisis. from my perspective this 'crisis' isnt half as bad as the last recession.. so when a reports findings are aired on bbc news and back up what im experiencing... i tend to believe they are talking something like the facts! Saying you're fine with the crisis because your job is safe is pretty insulting to the millions who are set to lose their jobs in the next few months tbh. And that's before we even start to talk about the massive cuts in public spending that will be necessary to pay off the colossal debt generated by the bank rescue, which will eradicate all the improvements you think New Labour have made to education and the NHS anyway.
October 21, 200816 yr Saying you're fine with the crisis because your job is safe is pretty insulting to the millions who are set to lose their jobs in the next few months tbh. And that's before we even start to talk about the massive cuts in public spending that will be necessary to pay off the colossal debt generated by the bank rescue, which will eradicate all the improvements you think New Labour have made to education and the NHS anyway. Spot on Danny... Rob's "I'm alright Jack" attitude makes him sound like a fukkin' TORY frankly.... <_< And he totally fails to grasp the truth - that without the Bail-out plans, everything would've gone absolutely into meltdown... You know, it's lazy, complacent attitudes like his that frankly DID make me wish that the whole system HAD just imploded and the bail-outs had been rejected... The Bail-Out plans have engendered an attitude of complacency and the false perception that everything is okay; and it obfuscates the facts that we WERE that close to "Great Depression" version 2.0.... I'm pretty damn sure that if such a thing were possible in 1929 they would have done it to avert the decade or so of absolute deprivation that was to follow... And I'm quite incensed on another level by this Bail Out for the banks, I'm reminded of a certain Chancellor who refused to help Pensioners totally fukked over by company pension schemes, which was absolutely NONE of their doing (unlike the Bank execs who caused THIS crisis...), and, er, who was this Chancellor...? Why, it was Gordy Broon..... :rolleyes: So, that just shows where HIS loyalties lie, certainly not with the millions of ordinary working class people out there.... He's a traitor to his class, and one day he WILL get what he deserves....
October 21, 200816 yr Saying you're fine with the crisis because your job is safe is pretty insulting to the millions who are set to lose their jobs in the next few months tbh. And that's before we even start to talk about the massive cuts in public spending that will be necessary to pay off the colossal debt generated by the bank rescue, which will eradicate all the improvements you think New Labour have made to education and the NHS anyway. what makes you think MY job is safe?.... it certainly ISNT, i work in a service industry and when times are tight luxuries like having a bloke to cut the grass is often the first thing to go. remember ive been here before and SO FAR its effected me very little compared with the early 90's. no one knows how it will or will not effect public spending so thats simply speculation.
October 21, 200816 yr what makes you think MY job is safe?.... it certainly ISNT, i work in a service industry and when times are tight luxuries like having a bloke to cut the grass is often the first thing to go. remember ive been here before and SO FAR its effected me very little compared with the early 90's. no one knows how it will or will not effect public spending so thats simply speculation. But we're not close to the brunt of the recession yet. I just don't see what point you're trying to make. There have been many credible estimates that this crisis will claim atleast 3m jobs, and bankrupt countless small businesses. I can't see how the advantages that New Labour have yielded the last 10 years can be a good thing when we can now see the inbuilt flaws that came with them. And re: public spending, it's not really speculation... the money has got to come from somewhere, and logically thinking, it's pretty clear it's going to come from hefty tax increases and cuts in public spending.
October 21, 200816 yr But we're not close to the brunt of the recession yet. I just don't see what point you're trying to make. There have been many credible estimates that this crisis will claim atleast 3m jobs, and bankrupt countless small businesses. I can't see how the advantages that New Labour have yielded the last 10 years can be a good thing when we can now see the inbuilt flaws that came with them. And re: public spending, it's not really speculation... the money has got to come from somewhere, and logically thinking, it's pretty clear it's going to come from hefty tax increases and cuts in public spending. but its not 'inbuilt flaws'... this is a normal cycle, things go well then theres a blip, a hic-cup, a re-alignment. afterwards the economy will build and many will again prosper IN THE LONG RUN. yeah some weaker businesses will go under, unemployment will rise, but after the storm (which is forecast to last UP TO 18 months..ive never heard any prediction of 3 years). anyone thinking that the economy will gradually get better and better without any recession or economic slow down is a fool, it had to come, and it WILL pass. this is a global crisis, not a uk one, brown isnt responsible for the rest of the world, we are a big time player globally so of course it will effect us. its specualtion because we dont know exactly what going to happen.. no point in speculating.
October 21, 200816 yr And re: public spending, it's not really speculation... the money has got to come from somewhere, and logically thinking, it's pretty clear it's going to come from hefty tax increases and cuts in public spending. Absolutely. As Shadow Chancellor George Osbourne very aptly put it "The cupboard is bare"..... So, just WHERE the fukk is this magic billions gonna manifest itself.......? :rolleyes: Labour's handling of Public finances and our services is just TRAGIC, no amount of spin can put a positive face on it.... Billions down the tube in an NHS IT system which DIDN'T WORK (£40 billion and counting for that disaster....), the fiasco over the SATs was just laughable, they're gonna sink billions into ID Cards that NO BUGGER WANTS, and probably more billions into a National DNA database which, if the SATs and HMRC things are anything to go by will be another management disaster waiting to happen, with potentially far more catastrophic results than all of their other disasters combined..... :lol: Tell you what though, if we're talking spending cuts - here's a few I can think of right now - CUTS in military spending (NO replacement for Trident, Bring Our Troops HOME NOW....), NO to ID cards and defintely NO to a National DNA database... Let's see, how many billions we saved on that little lot then....? :rolleyes:
October 21, 200816 yr this is a global crisis, not a uk one, really..? Well, I just read a newspaper report last night that said "Poland's Economy Booming"... :P :lol: :lol: :lol: The Russians and Chinese economies seem to be doing okay as well..... :rolleyes:
October 21, 200816 yr but its not 'inbuilt flaws'... this is a normal cycle, things go well then theres a blip, a hic-cup, a re-alignment. Oh, man, when will you actually stop with this nonsense......? You really are embarrassing yourself here with this ridiculous insistance that this is all "perfectly normal"..... What the fukk is perfectly normal about any of what's been going on for the past few months....? God, even Dubya Bush acknowledged that there was a problem, and he's a re****..... :P
October 21, 200816 yr Just heard another report on the news... September House Sales LOWEST EVER....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This on the back of a headline I saw in a London Newspaper - "Estate Agents Sell Houses For Free".... ie, Estate Agents are THAT desperate to get houses off their books they're waiving their fees.....ROFLMAO...... Nah, no problems, no crisis at all..... :rolleyes:
October 22, 200816 yr really..? Well, I just read a newspaper report last night that said "Poland's Economy Booming"... :P :lol: :lol: :lol: The Russians and Chinese economies seem to be doing okay as well..... :rolleyes: their economies arnt tied so closely to americas...where the trouble started, not in london.
October 22, 200816 yr Oh, man, when will you actually stop with this nonsense......? You really are embarrassing yourself here with this ridiculous insistance that this is all "perfectly normal"..... What the fukk is perfectly normal about any of what's been going on for the past few months....? God, even Dubya Bush acknowledged that there was a problem, and he's a re****..... :P yep.... its normal, normal for the economy to got through a recession. yep its a problem, but not one that cant/wont be fixed. you are the one embarrassing yourself by over stating it and comparing it to the 1930's :lol: atm it ISNT a recession its an 'economic downturn', atm it isnt THAT bad... though i admit it might yet get much worse...only then will your ott ranting bear any weight!
October 22, 200816 yr their economies arnt tied so closely to americas...where the trouble started, not in london. That's the whole problem then innit...? We're WAY too tied in with the Yanks.... :rolleyes: Proves my point... They fukked up their own economy in the 30s with rampant, excessive Capitalism, and now they've almost done the same again, and it's buggered us up too because Gordy was too busy cosying up to these spivs in the City, Washington and Wall St to actually do the stuff he should have been doing.... He was told repeatedly to regulate the banking system and to do something about interest rates and to curb the excesses of the City... He did NONE of the above, and now we, the taxpayer, have had to bail these greedy b/astards out of their own mess to save ourselves from going under.... <_< Don't tell me that this aint a good reason to have a rant.....
October 22, 200816 yr atm it ISNT a recession its an 'economic downturn', atm it isnt THAT bad... though i admit it might yet get much worse...only then will your ott ranting bear any weight! *SIGH*.. And STILL you dont get it do you....? Do me and Danny STILL need to keep repeating to you that the only reason we're NOT totally fukked is because of the Bail-outs and the Nationalisations and part-nationalisations of banks that have taken place....? Western Capitalism failed mate, and it took Socialist Nationalisation plans to sort it all out..... Wake up dude..... :rolleyes: People seriously need to stop being complacent about all this.....
October 22, 200816 yr Actually, there was a report on the BBC News today in which one financial analyst said that during this crisis the UK banking system came closest to failing since before the First World War, and it still aint really over.... Me and Danny OVER-stating....? I dont think so....
October 22, 200816 yr look here sonny..... unlike you i actually lived as an adult through the gloom of the 70's, the boom n bust of the 80's, rode the recession of the early 90's and as a self employed person... so ive experienced first hand 'hard times'.. i know what a recesion is like, and this current downturn is NOTHING like the winter of discontent, NOTHING like the recession of the early 90's... YET. so what if brown bailed out the banks?.. the fact is that he DID and in consequence has thus far avoided the worst effects. captialism has to work because its the only viable way of running business and unless you are advocating returning to the stone age thats the way we have to go.
October 22, 200816 yr Just heard another report on the news... September House Sales LOWEST EVER....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This on the back of a headline I saw in a London Newspaper - "Estate Agents Sell Houses For Free".... ie, Estate Agents are THAT desperate to get houses off their books they're waiving their fees.....ROFLMAO...... Nah, no problems, no crisis at all..... :rolleyes: thats bollox.... lowest ever?.... EVER?... so they sold more houses in the blitz of 1943 did they? :lol:... sorry...but exactly WHERE did i EVER say that "theres no crisis"?.. yes there are problems, but nothing that wont be insurmountable in the long run.
October 22, 200816 yr look here sonny..... unlike you i actually lived as an adult through the gloom of the 70's, the boom n bust of the 80's, rode the recession of the early 90's and as a self employed person... so ive experienced first hand 'hard times'.. i know what a recesion is like, and this current downturn is NOTHING like the winter of discontent, NOTHING like the recession of the early 90's... YET. But again, we're nowhere near the brunt of the recession yet. The effects of the actual crisis are only starting to ripple out through the real economy... as more and more small businesses go bankrupt and the retail sector records massive losses, forcing mass redunancies, it's going to get far worse. It's a bit silly to structure an argument around the technicality that things aren't that bad yet, when most credible economists do agree things are going to get rapidly worse in the next few months, and that we are atleast in for a rough year. Optimism is all well and good, but we've got to be realistic here. so what if brown bailed out the banks?.. the fact is that he DID and in consequence has thus far avoided the worst effects.But it does prove that this is far, far more than a natural, re-aligning recession, because it took completely un-natural and unprecedented action to avert a major disaster. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe the bail-out was the right thing to do in the circumstances, and think there is a good chance the crisis would be much worse right now if Cameron had been at the helm in the last few weeks rather than Brown... but it would've been far better if those circumstances had never arisen in the first place. And Brown must take some of the blame for those circumstances arising. captialism has to work because its the only viable way of running business and unless you are advocating returning to the stone age thats the way we have to go. I agree that saying capitalism is dead is overreacting, and I would agree it's the only realistic way of a modern society functioning. But we do certainly need a more diluted form of it from now on. Edited October 22, 200816 yr by Danny
October 22, 200816 yr thats bollox.... lowest ever?.... EVER?... so they sold more houses in the blitz of 1943 did they? :lol:... What a totally idiotic response.. You KNOW that I meant "lowest ever since records began...". Which would be what the reporters meant when they said, "all-time low".... And don't refer to me as "sonny" you patronising git..... :P And actually LISTEN to mine and Danny's arguments, which you so far aint been doing....
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