: i dont disagree with you on most of that! :lol: pratt.

 

Well, you wouldn't would you, you aint a black actor, you've never had to struggle to get roles or respect in a white-dominated industry run by the "old boys network".... Therefore you are completely ignorant of the realities for young black actors..... Whereas I can certainly appreciate how hard it is for them because I've a bit more interest and knowledge of Film than you do.... :P

 

utter shyte..... lets make a film of the queen, or winston churchill, or lets use a ficition character... james bond, santa claus, JESUS, ....

 

Jesus was once played by Robert Powell.... Yeah, VERY Middle-Eastern/Jewish, he is innit.....? :rolleyes:

 

And, again, The Queen, Winston Churchill... REAL PEOPLE again.... Fukk sake man, stop using such fukkin' LUDICROUS examples to justify your totally discredited, ridiculous arguments.... :rolleyes:

Simple, in the 60s/70s and most of teh 80s, you simply did not have black actors of any note coming through.... Times have changed, things are not like that anymore, we HAVE black actors of this calibre now... I would say Patterson Jospeph or Chiewtal Ejiofor are certainly the equals in terms of talent as Eccleston or Tenant, therefore, they should get a shout....

 

A different creative team has different ideas and concepts.. And I would suggest the fact that The Doctor has been hovering in and around London (multi-racial, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural) for the past four seasons, and has had close contact with ethnic minorities (ie, Micky and Martha Jones) MAY just trigger something in his genetic make-up for the next transformation..... This is SCIENCE FICTION, the possibilities are endless...... It all depends on how it's scripted (if it even DOES happen), and I have no doubt that given Steve Moffatt's capabilities as a writer, he will make the concept of a Black Doctor convincing.... YOU are just being little fukkin' Nancy Negative..... :P

 

look... ive heard your points, but mine still havnt changed. i grew up with the mysterious hartnell, an aloof, mad professor type, which imho encapsulated the character perfectly. in them days there was alot of interest in space/time/science fiction... fireball xl5 for eg... dr who was an invention of its time... to me its personalised. i can understand why townies and the young could swallow the concept of dr who being anything other then what he has been... but i dont, plus its just a victim of the bbc's pc brigade.... did i object to his black assistant? no, but i didnt think she was very good! lol.. or mikey (?) billies b/f in the early seriese with eccleston? no.... or black people as aliens?...no.... but from my point of view...the doctor should remain in the form he has always been... in fact id sooner them drop the 'joker' type character and revert to a more aloof hartnell character..

Well, you wouldn't would you, you aint a black actor, you've never had to struggle to get roles or respect in a white-dominated industry run by the "old boys network".... Therefore you are completely ignorant of the realities for young black actors..... Whereas I can certainly appreciate how hard it is for them because I've a bit more interest and knowledge of Film than you do.... :P

 

read it again <_< i was AGREEING with you...

Jesus was once played by Robert Powell.... Yeah, VERY Middle-Eastern/Jewish, he is innit.....? :rolleyes:

 

And, again, The Queen, Winston Churchill... REAL PEOPLE again.... Fukk sake man, stop using such fukkin' LUDICROUS examples to justify your totally discredited, ridiculous arguments.... :rolleyes:

 

sorry, i thought robert powel IS jewish! :lol:

 

but even if he isnt, he 'looks the part'... which is my very point.

 

it aint ludicrous, and my points are not discredited, they stand firm.

look... ive heard your points, but mine still havnt changed. i grew up with the mysterious hartnell, an aloof, mad professor type, which imho encapsulated the character perfectly. in them days there was alot of interest in space/time/science fiction... fireball xl5 for eg... dr who was an invention of its time... to me its personalised. i can understand why townies and the young could swallow the concept of dr who being anything other then what he has been... but i dont, plus its just a victim of the bbc's pc brigade.... did i object to his black assistant? no, but i didnt think she was very good! lol.. or mikey (?) billies b/f in the early seriese with eccleston? no.... or black people as aliens?...no.... but from my point of view...the doctor should remain in the form he has always been... in fact id sooner them drop the 'joker' type character and revert to a more aloof hartnell character..

 

Well, proves my point mate. You're stuck in your 1960s ways.... :rolleyes: Sorry, but The Doctor has MOVED ON from his 1960s origins in the same way that the remakes of Invasion of the Body Snatchers and The Thing moved on and EVOLVED from the original 1950s concepts and allegories; Star Trek similarly changed from its 1960s origins to embracing ideas of black commanders (Cisco in DS9), female captains (Janeway in "Voyager"), etc throughout the 90s and 00s and I'm just willing to be that there were vast armies of anoraks and saddoes who objected to all those different ideas that came along....

 

Science Fiction as a concept is about worlds and realities in constant states of flux, the Doctor "personifies" this concept by the fluid nature of his own form and his need to regenerate.. The Doctor IS in a constant state of flux.....

 

If you honestly believe that Science Fiction should just stay constant and unchanging, then you clearly have NO CLUE of what the concepts of Sci Fi actually are....

i grew up with the mysterious hartnell, an aloof, mad professor type, which imho encapsulated the character perfectly.

i can understand why townies and the young could swallow the concept of dr who being anything other then what he has been...

 

Oh, I'm sorry, are "aloof, mad professor types" particular to a specific ethnic minority now...? Here was me thinking that you could have JEWISH, mad professor types, or Black or Asian "mad Professor" types... Obviously, "mad, professor types" are all anglo-saxon aren't they.....? :rolleyes:

 

Second sentence has this sort of sniffy, superior feel about it... I keep forgetting that you lot in the country are such superior beings to the rest of us lot who live in towns cos dont really appreciate what it is to be "british" do we.....? :rolleyes:

 

Well, maybe we just have different ideas of things that's all mate, because we AINT living isolated from where the real stuff is going on and we can see and appreciate the changes going on around us.... The world is a much smaller place than it was in the 50s and 60s dude thanks to new information technologies (such as the internet, funnily enough, a concept which came from the very area of Science Fiction literature, William Gibson was probably the first author to use the terms "the web" and "the net" way back in the late 70s, early 80s, concepts of "virtual reality" also came from his works and the works of Philip K Dick..) which we can all access, constantly changing and evolving, get used to it....

I don't watch Doctor Who but I've been reading through this thread and this is really quite ridiculous. Why is it so hard to accept that the Doctor could end up being something other than a white man? :mellow:

 

It really is racist to be saying that he can't be black because it's how it's always been. It's nothing like making James Bond black because, although he is also fictional, he's a normal man with no shape shifting traits so the actors should all look quite similar. I find it hard to believe a blonde Bond, but I've never wached a Bond film either so it doesn't make a difference to me.

 

How is it any harder to believe that 'the Doctor' could transform into Patterson Joseph than it is to believe that the 10 previous Doctors are all the same character? The only similarities between David Tennant, William Hartnell and Christopher Eccleston is their skin colour, they look nothing like each other. So I don't see how people can accept that the Doctor can go from looking like Chris to looking like David but they can't accept David changing to Patterson just because he's black. :wacko:

 

I can understand that the BBC might be hiring more black actors/actresses because they were told to but so what if they are? It's not like they're picking up black people from the streets and casting them in these roles, they're still proper actors. I can maybe see why you're annoyed at them being cast in period dramas when it's not historically correct, but Doctor Who isn't a period drama and it has no real historical background.

 

Maybe I'm missing something because I can't stand Doctor Who but I'm guessing from the fact that it seems to be Buzzjack vs Craig & Rob on this one that I'm not in the wrong.

Memorably (even I was not born then, so I'm taking these "facts" on a Dr Who reference site as gospel) the show's Director Innes Lloyd did an interview with the Daily Mirror in November 1966 to explain the process/concept to enable the main character the scope to change it's "the entire personality and appearance of the Doctor".

 

When further probed by the Newspaper he conceded that the character could be conceptually be played by a female, a non human, or (gasp horror) someone of foreign, non Caucasian or non heterosexual origin.

 

Well, if this can actually be verified, if a creative force on the original series DID say this, then it is the final nail in the coffin for Rob and Craig's argument as far as I'm concerned.....

 

Not that they didn't provide plenty of nails of their own..... :lol: :lol:

 

We all have our memories of The Doc, for me it was Tom Baker, mad, eccentric fukker in a long scarf, a hat and went around offering jelly babies to everyone..... :lol: Tom Baker will always remain my favourite Doc, but times DO change, and I grew to like Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy later on (but never Peter Davison funnily enough)..... Also, I really liked Eccleston, and Dave Tenant eventually (when he got a bit more serious and a bit less shrieky....)

 

I don't watch Doctor Who but I've been reading through this thread and this is really quite ridiculous. Why is it so hard to accept that the Doctor could end up being something other than a white man? :mellow:

 

the points have been fully addressed :)

 

1) its the bbc being politically correct in getting in its ethnic quota

2) he doesnt fit the image of the doctor that i grew up with...

 

if he is such a shapeshifting alien then why after 45 years has he always been a white male? sorry but after 45 years of watching dr who you do tend to get rather attatched to the character...

 

HOWEVER.... i stopped watching it when sylester mc coy took over.... he was APPAULING and bady cast. am i 'whiteist'? for not thinking he was the best choice?...lol...

Well, if this can actually be verified, if a creative force on the original series DID say this, then it is the final nail in the coffin for Rob and Craig's argument as far as I'm concerned.....

 

Not that they didn't provide plenty of nails of their own..... :lol: :lol:

 

only in your mind... as far as im concerned you still dont get it from my perspective and have failed to convince me to change my mind... and please stop telling me my own mind, its bad enough telling me that im a secret anal fan and that straight guys are also secret anal lovers (ok a few might be...not all) and now you are telling me that i should accept YOUR view of dr who.... well get this.. I DONT and am fully at ease with my position on this and the reasons behind it... ie tradition and political correctness quotas.

Oh, I'm sorry, are "aloof, mad professor types" particular to a specific ethnic minority now...? Here was me thinking that you could have JEWISH, mad professor types, or Black or Asian "mad Professor" types... Obviously, "mad, professor types" are all anglo-saxon aren't they.....? :rolleyes:

 

fcuk off!!! YOUD have been the first politically correct idiot creating a stink if an ethnic person was portrayed as a 'mad man' <_<

Well, proves my point mate. You're stuck in your 1960s ways.... :rolleyes: Sorry, but The Doctor has MOVED ON from his 1960s origins in the same way that the remakes of Invasion of the Body Snatchers and The Thing moved on and EVOLVED from the original 1950s concepts and allegories; Star Trek similarly changed from its 1960s origins to embracing ideas of black commanders (Cisco in DS9), female captains (Janeway in "Voyager"), etc throughout the 90s and 00s and I'm just willing to be that there were vast armies of anoraks and saddoes who objected to all those different ideas that came along....

 

Science Fiction as a concept is about worlds and realities in constant states of flux, the Doctor "personifies" this concept by the fluid nature of his own form and his need to regenerate.. The Doctor IS in a constant state of flux.....

 

If you honestly believe that Science Fiction should just stay constant and unchanging, then you clearly have NO CLUE of what the concepts of Sci Fi actually are....

 

The Star Trek ones are NEW CHARACTERS though, if Captain Kirk was recreated in the movies by say Danny Glover with Samuel L Jackson playing Mr Spock it would look just as stupid as Dr Who being made black after half a century, I have nothing against NEW characters being created who are black but leave old long standing characters like Dr Who as they are

The Star Trek ones are NEW CHARACTERS though, if Captain Kirk was recreated in the movies by say Danny Glover with Samuel L Jackson playing Mr Spock it would look just as stupid as Dr Who being made black after half a century, I have nothing against NEW characters being created who are black but leave old long standing characters like Dr Who as they are

 

exactly.... star treks crew were always multi-national ....

the points have been fully addressed :)

 

1) its the bbc being politically correct in getting in its ethnic quota

2) he doesnt fit the image of the doctor that i grew up with...

 

if he is such a shapeshifting alien then why after 45 years has he always been a white male? sorry but after 45 years of watching dr who you do tend to get rather attatched to the character...

 

HOWEVER.... i stopped watching it when sylester mc coy took over.... he was APPAULING and bady cast. am i 'whiteist'? for not thinking he was the best choice?...lol...

1) So what if they are getting in with their 'ethnic quota'? If they're being told to use more black actors then what's wrong with doing that? As I said, it's not like these are incapable actors they're getting in. I think it's better giving them roles in existing popular TV programs than creating a whole new show to fill this quota. Remember the BBC's 'first black sitcom', The Crouches? :lol: It was critically panned. I wouldn't be inclined to give it another try if I were the BBC. (I'm guessing this sort of show is your 'solution' to the quota?)

2) I fail to see how that's a valid excuse. As I said, none of the previous Doctors look very similar to me so why is it any more of a stretch to believe that William Hartnell is the same character as David Tennant than it would be to believe that a black actor is this character? It's okay for the character to change personality, hair colour, age, voice but WHOA skin colour is a step too far? :blink:

 

You should know as well as any of us here that attitudes to race have changed a lot over 45 years, back then there were hardly any black actors on TV let alone being considered for major roles like this.

 

ANYWAY this is just a rumour so you'll probably be happy when they reveal that it'll be a white actor playing the Doctor after all. :)

The Star Trek ones are NEW CHARACTERS though, if Captain Kirk was recreated in the movies by say Danny Glover with Samuel L Jackson playing Mr Spock it would look just as stupid as Dr Who being made black after half a century, I have nothing against NEW characters being created who are black but leave old long standing characters like Dr Who as they are

Yet again you're confusing a character who has 'transformed' many times before now with characters who have never been known as 'shape shifters', 'transformers' or 'regenerators'. If Mr Spock was always known as someone with these 'powers' and had been played by 10 different actors until now it would be acceptable to see him played by Samuel L Jackson. The same goes for all these other comparisons you're making - characters like James Bond, Mr Spock, Obi Wan Kenobi, Princess Leia etc. are all different characters to the Doctor as they all have set looks and no 'transforming' powers.

 

There is no definition of what the Doctor has to look like as he's a transforming alien thing. It's just been the case that the character has always been played by a white male, much like the American Presidency. No one ever said it was a rule that the President had to be a white middle aged male it was just always that way. Then things changed.

2) he doesnt fit the image of the doctor that i grew up with...

And herein lies the issue...

 

The issue is not with the BBC. The issue is not with the nice lady who casts or with Joseph Patterson. The issue is with YOU, a sexist, racist, everything-ist pig who can't just grow a pair of balls and accept that he's wrong in the light of overwhelmingly conclusive arguments against him...

 

I don't even know why anybody is still arguing this. :lol: The facts as I see it are that:

 

1. Doctor Who being black is not a problem

2. We can't be certain yet just how well Joseph Patterson as an actor, forgetting skin colour, will suit the role

3. We should be willing to give him a chance before dismissing him (and then it should be on the grounds of his acting, not his skin)

4. Rob is not going to change his mind regardless of any of the above

 

:)

And herein lies the issue...

 

The issue is not with the BBC. The issue is not with the nice lady who casts or with Joseph Patterson. The issue is with YOU, a sexist, racist, everything-ist pig who can't just grow a pair of balls and accept that he's wrong in the light of overwhelmingly conclusive arguments against him...

 

I don't even know why anybody is still arguing this. :lol: The facts as I see it are that:

 

1. Doctor Who being black is not a problem

2. We can't be certain yet just how well Joseph Patterson as an actor, forgetting skin colour, will suit the role

3. We should be willing to give him a chance before dismissing him (and then it should be on the grounds of his acting, not his skin)

4. Rob is not going to change his mind regardless of any of the above

 

:)

 

oh dear.... some children <_<

 

if you care to read all ive put and not take 1 line out of context to make a different point <_<

 

YET AGAIN

 

my objections are that its the bbc politically correct attempt to get its ethnic quota ... yet again ...i have not problem with this (aaron), but i object to changing a traditional character in order to do so! .......... so what if i have a deep ingrianed image of who should play the role of dr who? there are many people who wouldnt 'fit' the image, of any colour! theres plenty of whites who wouldnt 'fit' visually... but thats just my oppinion. why is that so hard for some to comprehend?

 

The Star Trek ones are NEW CHARACTERS though, if Captain Kirk was recreated in the movies by say Danny Glover with Samuel L Jackson playing Mr Spock it would look just as stupid as Dr Who being made black after half a century, I have nothing against NEW characters being created who are black but leave old long standing characters like Dr Who as they are

 

 

you've obviously not got the 'gist' of Dr Who in the 40-odd years it's been on, have you?

 

The Doctor isn't any one person as such - he can be anyone - black, white, male, female..... all the character is is a name - not a person.

 

Did you kick up a fuss when, was it Peter Davison, became Doctor...and he didn't wear a scarf, have wild ringlet-y hair and talk in a booming voice? Did you create a fuss when Jon Pertwee left....only to be replaced with aforementioned scarf-wearing loon, who was minus the velvet jackets, silver hair and upper-crust lisp?

 

And Rob - what are you doing? :huh: You're totally ruining your reputation on this site - first with your frankly puerile, backward and ludicrous statements on the Proposition 8 thread in the Perspectives section and now here with outdated, racist tripe about, gasp, the BBC daring to cast an actor who isn't white into an acting role. Political correctness? Not at all - I happen to think a black actor is a great idea - my gripe is the actor they've chosen isn't, in my view, a very good actor, regardless of his colour.

 

I think it was the right time to have a female Doctor, myself. Maybe someone like Tilda Swinton, who has an otherworldly quality to her - and who excels in every role I've ever seen her in.

you've obviously not got the 'gist' of Dr Who in the 40-odd years it's been on, have you?

 

The Doctor isn't any one person as such - he can be anyone - black, white, male, female..... all the character is is a name - not a person.

 

Did you kick up a fuss when, was it Peter Davison, became Doctor...and he didn't wear a scarf, have wild ringlet-y hair and talk in a booming voice? Did you create a fuss when Jon Pertwee left....only to be replaced with aforementioned scarf-wearing loon, who was minus the velvet jackets, silver hair and upper-crust lisp?

 

And Rob - what are you doing? :huh: You're totally ruining your reputation on this site - first with your frankly puerile, backward and ludicrous statements on the Proposition 8 thread in the Perspectives section and now here with outdated, racist tripe about, gasp, the BBC daring to cast an actor who isn't white into an acting role. Political correctness? Not at all - I happen to think a black actor is a great idea - my gripe is the actor they've chosen isn't, in my view, a very good actor, regardless of his colour.

 

I think it was the right time to have a female Doctor, myself. Maybe someone like Tilda Swinton, who has an otherworldly quality to her - and who excels in every role I've ever seen her in.

 

I wasn't bothered by Peter Davison becoming Dr Who on any grounds other than he was awful at it, my 2nd worst after Sylvester McCoy any more than I was bothered by a blonde guy in Daniel Craig becoming James Bond but there is a big big difference between clothes, hair, mannerisms etc than there is a completely different skin colour which is the case with Patterson Joseph, I would object as much to a woman black or white becoming Dr Who

 

As has been said many times in this thread........ "If it ain't broke don't fix it"