I only said that Taylor Swift made Avril look like Kate Bush.... And all these allegations seem to be associated with her later material, which I am certainly no kind of fan of, it's absolutely appalling in fact... Her early stuff that she did do as a teenager (and when she was just being a bit more just herself) is a bit more acceptable, and is more pertinent seeing as how my own point is more to do with teenage singer/songwriters generally...

 

Her first three hits ("Complicated"; "Sk8er Boi" & "I'm With You") were written by the Production/Songwriting Team: The Matrix which then consisted of Scott Spock, Lauren Christy, Graham Edwards & legendary producer Steve Lillywhite. All Avril contributed were the lyrics.

 

So in artistic terms Avril should only be compared with lyricists like Lily Allen or Robbie Williams. That is very different to a self contained songwriter like Taylor Swift.

 

Therefore in my eyes Taylor Swift's work is of greater value than Avril Lavigne's because she did not need flavour of the month producers to come up with the tunes and melodies for her records.

Avril Lavigne VS Taylor Swift in the Sats Comic Relief thread ??

If global mods start going on endless off topic debates, this is like the end of the world... :lol:

Absolutely.... Couldn't agree more.... LG is indeed the only Top 10 act around just now who can be considered anything like a credible and individualistic artist in her own right.... And when was the last time an act had two Top 10 hits running at the same time....? :rolleyes: Very occasionally (and it's as rare rockinghorse sh!t these days let's face it...), REAL talent manages to bypass the Cowell/Walsh mediocrity firewalls and shines brightly....

 

Beyonce did it in December.

Listen jumped back into the top 10 because of.... a Cowell/Walsh mediocrity. :o

Her first three hits ("Complicated"; "Sk8er Boi" & "I'm With You") were written by the Production/Songwriting Team: The Matrix which then consisted of Scott Spock, Lauren Christy, Graham Edwards & legendary producer Steve Lillywhite. All Avril contributed were the lyrics.

 

So in artistic terms Avril should only be compared with lyricists like Lily Allen or Robbie Williams. That is very different to a self contained songwriter like Taylor Swift.

 

Therefore in my eyes Taylor Swift's work is of greater value than Avril Lavigne's because she did not need flavour of the month producers to come up with the tunes and melodies for her records.

 

Fair enough.. I retract the comparison, I shall then say that Taylor Swift makes Lily Allen look like Kate Bush..... Then you're gonna come back and tell me that Lily doesn't write all her music aren't you.....? :lol: :lol:

 

But, saying Taylor Swift is better than Avril is hardly an amazing feat of songwriting genius is it....? Doesn't exactly make her Kate Bush, Tim Wheeler or Robert Smith does it....?

 

But, saying Taylor Swift is better than Avril is hardly an amazing feat of songwriting genius is it....? Doesn't exactly make her Kate Bush, Tim Wheeler or Robert Smith does it....?

Who says she has to be?!

It's quite rare for an artist to have an album solely of stuff they've written past their first album.

Who says she has to be?!

 

Considering all the bumming she's been getting, you WOULD think she was another Kate Bush or Emmylou Harris...... :rolleyes: When, in fact, she's an incredibly average, rather cheesy Country Pop act... Frankly from that particular genre, I'd choose to listen to Shania Twain or Faith Hill over her any day, and I'm no particular fan of either of those.....

Avril Lavigne a talented songwriter?????? :rolleyes:

 

Allegations of plagiarism and criticism of songwriting:

 

On May 25, 2007, Lavigne, her co-songwriter Lukasz Gottwald, and her record label were sued by songwriters James Gangwer and Tommy Dunbar, who claimed that her song "Girlfriend" plagiarized their 1979 song "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend", originally performed by The Rubinoos.

 

In January 2008, Dunbar and Gangwer dropped their lawsuit and retracted their allegations of plagiarism after the case was settled confidentially after receiving an undisclosed financial payment.

 

In February 2008, ABKCO, the company owned by Allan Klein that owns the publishing to all the Jagger/Richards Rolling Stones compositions up until 1971 sued Lavigne & Gottwald for 50% royalties for similarities to the Rolling Stones 1966 transatlantic #1 "Get Off Of My Cloud".

 

In June 2007, Canadian singer-songwriter Chantal Kreviazuk, with whom Lavigne wrote the majority of her second album, Under My Skin, spoke to Performing Songwriter magazine about Lavigne's songwriting: "I mean, Avril, songwriter? Avril doesn't really sit and write songs by herself or anything. Avril will also cross the ethical line and no one says anything. That's why I'll never work with her again. I sent her a song two years ago called 'Contagious', and I just saw the tracklisting to this album and there's a song called 'Contagious' on it--and my name's not on it. What do you do with that? See, I won't [call the lawyers], I'll just tell you. Art should not be subject to that kind of controversy."

 

The song "I Don't Have to Try" also stirred up controversy. Similarities between this song and Peaches' 2003 song "I'm the Kinda" have sparked further plagiarism litigation.

 

Give me the Debbie Gibson country protegee Taylor Swift any minute of the day over the rubbish third rate Alanis Morissette wannabe.

 

 

I only said that Taylor Swift made Avril look like Kate Bush.... And all these allegations seem to be associated with her later material, which I am certainly no kind of fan of, it's absolutely appalling in fact... Her early stuff that she did do as a teenager (and when she was just being a bit more just herself) is a bit more acceptable, and is more pertinent seeing as how my own point is more to do with teenage singer/songwriters generally...

 

 

Her first three hits ("Complicated"; "Sk8er Boi" & "I'm With You") were written by the Production/Songwriting Team: The Matrix which then consisted of Scott Spock, Lauren Christy, Graham Edwards & legendary producer Steve Lillywhite. All Avril contributed were the lyrics.

 

So in artistic terms Avril should only be compared with lyricists like Lily Allen or Robbie Williams. That is very different to a self contained songwriter like Taylor Swift.

 

Therefore in my eyes Taylor Swift's work is of greater value than Avril Lavigne's because she did not need flavour of the month producers to come up with the tunes and melodies for her records.

 

ok, maybe her later work isnt 'original', her early work (which was her best) scott has defended. so she only wrote the lyrics? so? i happen to think 'complicated' is EXCELLANT. for what it is...

 

unlike what you seem to do, i like what i like, im not going to 'like' taylor swift IF her material doesnt do anything for me, and so far all ive heard is rubbish. she might be the greatest ever singer/songwriter/composer/artiste of all time, but if her material doesnt appeal to me then ill not like her.

 

ps.... im not 'big' on avril, i like 'complicated' and 'im with you' both of which i rate highly, the rest is forgettable.

I will be quite interested to hear The Saturdays 2nd album when its released as it will really be make or break for them.

Im hoping they at least write a few of the songs considering they are supposed to have talent.

I do wonder sometimes if these manufactured artists/groups even like the songs they are given, especially considering many

of them manage to forget the lyrics.

Even if they written a song together and it was completely sh!t id have much more respect for them.

However many manufactured artists/groups can be great, for example Rihanna has often picked great songs e.g Disturbia.

I am quite fond of 'Work' and 'Up' though, 8/10 songs.

Edited March 15, 200916 yr by Conor

I do wonder sometimes if these manufactured artists/groups even like the songs they are given, especially considering many

of them manage to forget the lyrics.

 

Exactly... You could perhaps forgive a songwriter having done about 10 albums forgetting the lyrics to a song he/she hasn't played live, or even listened to, in a decade or whatever (I dont expect artists to be machines with perfect, 100% memory recall), but forgetting the lyrics of a track you have in the charts at that particular time and are supposedly performing live to promote the album the track comes from....??? Oh, come on, that's just lame innit....? And just proves that they have no real passion for what they're actually doing.... Well, sorry love, but if YOU cant be bothered, well, neither can I frankly..... :rolleyes:

 

ok, maybe her later work isnt 'original', her early work (which was her best) scott has defended. so she only wrote the lyrics? so? i happen to think 'complicated' is EXCELLANT. for what it is...

 

Well, it's not really "defending" mate, more "tolerating"..... :lol: :lol: But yeah, I admit, I would rather listen to "Sk8er Boi" or "Complicated" than that annoying, cheesy Dolly Parton-lite bollocks that Swifty has in the charts at the moment.....

 

Exactly... You could perhaps forgive a songwriter having done about 10 albums forgetting the lyrics to a song he/she hasn't played live, or even listened to, in a decade or whatever (I dont expect artists to be machines with perfect, 100% memory recall), but forgetting the lyrics of a track you have in the charts at that particular time and are supposedly performing live to promote the album the track comes from....??? Oh, come on, that's just lame innit....? And just proves that they have no real passion for what they're actually doing.... Well, sorry love, but if YOU cant be bothered, well, neither can I frankly..... :rolleyes:

Keisha has forgotten lyrics a few times whilst touring.

 

Even when preforming the same songs in the same order that you had a hand in writing for 2months you can still have blank moments.

 

Everyone covers their mistakes in different ways. Keisha just comes out with i've forgotten my lines, points the mic at the crowd and asks them to sing. Given that most fans know lyrics inside out and back to front.

 

Amelle rambles on about going for walks. Although, she mainly forgets lyrics to older songs in which she had no hand in creating or performing.

 

 

Basically what i am trying and failing to say is that artists do forget their lyrics, it happens, even if they have written them it is plausable that they have had a total c.r.a.f.t moment, which happens to most of us from time to time.

 

c.r.a.f.t - can't remember a f***ing thing.

PMSL.......... THE PUBLIC HAS DELIVERED A DAMNING VERDICT.

 

now saturdays fans, WAKE UP and smell the coffee!

 

'islands in the stream' a track thats barely been heard, and the 'other' comic relief track has reached #1.

 

NOW HISTORY WILL RECORD THAT AS BEING THE COMIC RELIEF SINGLE OF 09, the saturdays FAILING yet again.

 

fans might like the sats, but the public are really indifferent to this bunch of pop puppets.

 

..... 'work' the next single?... oh dear, the begining of the end i think.

Hmmm, let's see.

 

After just two weeks, the sales of 'Just Can't Get Enough' have totalled 128,000. The total to date for that Girls Aloud vs Sugababes thing is 106,000 or thereabouts... not bad going I'd say.

PMSL.......... THE PUBLIC HAS DELIVERED A DAMNING VERDICT.

 

now saturdays fans, WAKE UP and smell the coffee!

 

'islands in the stream' a track thats barely been heard, and the 'other' comic relief track has reached #1.

 

NOW HISTORY WILL RECORD THAT AS BEING THE COMIC RELIEF SINGLE OF 09, the saturdays FAILING yet again.

 

fans might like the sats, but the public are really indifferent to this bunch of pop puppets.

 

..... 'work' the next single?... oh dear, the begining of the end i think.

for two consecutive weeks it has sold 60k+

 

hardly an epic fail. it looks like it'll top 200k and edge towards 250k.

 

Therefore owning Walk This Way at the main goal: Raising money for comic relief.

 

Something it is doing very well right about now.

 

Exactly Silver Rocket. Fantastic sales so far.

 

And-

 

fans might like the sats, but the public are really indifferent to this bunch of pop puppets.

 

Erm, well I think seeing each single peak higher than the last (8,5,4,2 I think please correct if wrong) shows the public are actually liking them.

 

Work beginning of the end? Yes it is.

 

Beginning of the end of the Chasing Lights era. Roll on album 2 ;)

PMSL.......... THE PUBLIC HAS DELIVERED A DAMNING VERDICT.

 

now saturdays fans, WAKE UP and smell the coffee!

 

'islands in the stream' a track thats barely been heard, and the 'other' comic relief track has reached #1.

 

NOW HISTORY WILL RECORD THAT AS BEING THE COMIC RELIEF SINGLE OF 09, the saturdays FAILING yet again.

 

fans might like the sats, but the public are really indifferent to this bunch of pop puppets.

 

ROFLMAO...

 

Now, that really IS embarrassing... Sorry Sats fans, but it is.... "Islands in the Stream" is a Karaoke mickey-take record, nothing more, it wasn't even supposed to be the "official" one.... Groups like the Sats pretty much define themselves on getting to No1, and they cant even manage it with a "charidee" record, which one WOULD think should be a 'dead cert' for a No 1 slot, esp summat like Comic Relief which is seriously high profile....

 

ROFLMAO...

 

Now, that really IS embarrassing... Sorry Sats fans, but it is.... "Islands in the Stream" is a Karaoke mickey-take record, nothing more, it wasn't even supposed to be the "official" one.... Groups like the Sats pretty much define themselves on getting to No1, and they cant even manage it with a "charidee" record, which one WOULD think should be a 'dead cert' for a No 1 slot, esp summat like Comic Relief which is seriously high profile....

 

i do love how people are just completly discounting the stupid amount of sales that Flow Rider got... and People are saying Islands in the Stream, wasnt supposed to go to number 1. Of course it was, the 2nd record which is always ment to be the funny alterantive, since Armaliro is clearly designed as the one they want to sell more and do better, why else would they have spent so much time promoting/mentioning Islands in the Stream this year as opposed to 500 Miles and Armaliro which only got mentioned on the comic relife night in the previous 2.

 

I also don't understand why the saturdays are getting so much stick for failing to get to number one with the comic relife single, yes the previous nine have, but look at children in need, the previous two have missed the top 10 and i can't rember when the last one got to number one? And unlike the saturdays who haven't even had a year to establish themselves those were by well established Acts, Spice Girls (reached 11) and McFly (reached 18, falling out of the top 40 the following week, the top 75 the week after) so in that sense allthough the saturdays failed to reach number 1, they have done better than those well established acts. It also can't be denied despite not reaching number 1, in two weeks they have sold more than Girls Aloud/Sugababes did in total.

i do love how people are just completly discounting the stupid amount of sales that Flow Rider got... and People are saying Islands in the Stream, wasnt supposed to go to number 1. Of course it was, the 2nd record which is always ment to be the funny alterantive, since Armaliro is clearly designed as the one they want to sell more and do better, why else would they have spent so much time promoting/mentioning Islands in the Stream this year as opposed to 500 Miles and Armaliro which only got mentioned on the comic relife night in the previous 2.

 

Right, so you're actually telling me that the Sats and their PR team didn't want their track to get to number one.....? :rolleyes: Is this seriously what you're telling me....? That they deliberately did a cr@p cover version to make the Gavin and Stacey and Tom Jones karaoke p!ss-take look good......

 

 

These comments degrading the Saturdays and the performance of "Just Can't Get Enough" in the charts are becoming borderline trolling now. :/

 

It's outsold the last "serious" Comic Relief single but because it didn't reach #1 it's apparently done worse than it. No. It's definitely a disappointment that it didn't make the top spot but it's made the charity more money so that's all that matters.

 

As for the ROFLMAOLOLPMSL comments about it getting beat by the "joke" song umm, what's new? The comedy track has always outsold the serious track since they started doing it. McFly sold about 340k of their record in 2005, the Tony Christie/Peter Kay spoof sold 1.1 million records. Sugababes vs Girls Aloud sold about 110k, the Proclaimers and Brian Potter sold about 340k. See a pattern there? The novelty one has always been the more popular song so give it a rest, eh?