Hmm, do ya think we'll ever find out the truth about this absolute bloody mess....? Frankly, I rather doubt it...

 

This is another Stockwell Tube "incident"

Another "tanks at Heathrow" debacle (and two days before a MAJOR anti-war demo, coincidence...?)

Another "Bomb at Old Trafford"

Another "Ricin in Wood Green"

 

Another fukkin' high-profile shambles in other words..... <_<

 

Just what was the point of having 250 armed coppers storming a house in a residential area, could they even all fit in the bloody house anyway ? I rather think that things could've been done with a lot less fuss using, say 12 officers, a carefully synchronised, low-key operation in which two plain- clothers officerss could have been dispatched to each of the brother's work-places and pick them up with the minimum of fuss and the rest go into the family home with a forensic team in tow....

 

 

No, instead we get a militaristic style operation on the streets of the capital which would even at the height of the IRA terror campaign would have been considered utter overkill (I rather doubt it took 250 officers to bring in the Guildford 4 and the Birmingham 6....). In fact, I doubt it even took 250 armed soldiers to find and capture Saddam fukkin' Hussein!! Or even took 250 soldiers to storm a compound full of insurgents in Iraq....

 

And then you have the lies, the dodgy shooting which was first conveniently leaked to us as a "struggle" between one of the brothers and an armed officer, then it was one brother shooting the other and finally it was "oh sh!t we fukked up again, but it was the thickness of the gloves, honest guv...."

 

George Galloway was absolutely right when he talked of a policy of "shoot and slander". They tried to blacken the name of Jean Charles de Menezes and spouted a load of utter sh!t about him in order to confuse us into accepting the filth were right to execute him for no good reason, now we're seeing the same sort of misinformation about the two brothers. A red-top reported yesterday that £38.000 was found in the family home. Like, so.... Is it against the law to have £38,000 in the privacy of your own home? A bit foolish and unsafe, yes, but illegal, no. So why is this being reported? Is it relevant? No. Again, the policy of obfuscation and confusion to make innocent people look guilty in a country which supposedly follows the rule of law and the presumption of innocence until guilt is PROVEN exists.... If the police could tie this money to any illegal activities they would not have released the brothers without charge. This is the only thing that is fukkin' relevant..... In this country a person has the right to be foolish and keep all their money under the mattress or in a hundred bloody jam-jars if they so desire...

 

Also, the quality of the so-called "intelligence" needs to be called into question. How the hell can they get something this big so utterly wrong? You expect that when you have an operation of this magnitude that everything is 100% and facts have been checked, double checked and triple checked... Obviously, this was not the case...

 

Ian Hislop was absolutely spot on - The Forest Gate raid was the Iraq invasion in microcosm.... No WMDs here either when the "intelligence" was supposedly so 'cast-iron'..... I rather get the feeling that this was all a publicity stunt to be honest, the Govt is rapidly losing face, so it has to do something to make itself look anything other than the bunch of utter turds they are. Along comes this bit of chatter about a "Chemical Plot" and Tony and John get together and say "right, now we can make it look like we're doing something. Let's make this big. Like Hollywood action movie big and we'll look like the heroes..."

 

Tw@ts..... <_<

 

250 coppers to raid one house, 50 coppers to take some placards off an anti-war protestor..... And absolutely bugger all done to stamp out teenage gang warfare on the streets of our cities, which is claiming lives every week.....

It was a bit of a **** up but we live in dangerous times, there is a very clear risk of further 7/7's or even a chemical attack on London so the police can't take any chances, I would rather a few innocent people be detained or shot than one slip through the net and blow half of London to kingdom come, the police believed that these 2 were terrorists and acted with the information they had at the time, it turns out they probably weren't terrorists but the intelligence suggested they were so the police had no choice, the work of the intelligence service needs examining because this is 2 major **** ups now but like I said the loss of Menezes and this shooting are mere collateral damage in the war against terror

the loss of Menezes and this shooting are mere collateral damage in the war against terror

 

That's unacceptable to me, and should be to any civilized, freedom-loving person.... We should NOT accept the police force acting like an occupying military force in this country. We should NOT accept attacks on our personal liberties and freedoms because the Govt says it's 'necessary', yeah, cos we should trust those b/astards after they lied to us about Iraq shouldn't we....? <_< . 7/7 happened because of the Iraq invasion and UK's cosy relationship with one of the biggest mass-murderers on the planet - George W Bush.

 

As a great man once said "Any country which sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither". Another great man also said "better a hundred guilty men walk free than an innocent man be jailed". These are principles on which a FREE society is built. If we go by what you say, we'd might as well just live in bloody China or summat....

 

The de Menezes shooting was murder, simple as, these officers were ordered by their superiors to bring him in for questioning. They disobeyed a direct order and pumped ELEVEN bullets into that young man's head, and then they fukkin' lied about him just to pour salt into his family's wounds. Unforgivable and vile in my opinion.... <_< This was an illegal state execution...

 

And this raid, as I said before, was pure PR on the part of a Govt which is nothing more than clever spin and PR. This raid could have been carried out with the minimum of fuss in the way I suggested, with no real harm done if it went pear-shaped.....

 

 

 

 

That's unacceptable to me, and should be to any civilized, freedom-loving person.... We should NOT accept the police force acting like an occupying military force in this country. We should NOT accept attacks on our personal liberties and freedoms because the Govt says it's 'necessary', yeah, cos we should trust those b/astards after they lied to us about Iraq shouldn't we....? <_< . 7/7 happened because of the Iraq invasion and UK's cosy relationship with one of the biggest mass-murderers on the planet - George W Bush.

 

As a great man once said "Any country which sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither". Another great man also said "better a hundred guilty men walk free than an innocent man be jailed". These are principles on which a FREE society is built. If we go by what you say, we'd might as well just live in bloody China or summat....

 

The de Menezes shooting was murder, simple as, these officers were ordered by their superiors to bring him in for questioning. They disobeyed a direct order and pumped ELEVEN bullets into that young man's head, and then they fukkin' lied about him just to pour salt into his family's wounds. Unforgivable and vile in my opinion.... <_< This was an illegal state execution...

 

And this raid, as I said before, was pure PR on the part of a Govt which is nothing more than clever spin and PR. This raid could have been carried out with the minimum of fuss in the way I suggested, with no real harm done if it went pear-shaped.....

 

I don't deny the Menenez incident was a tragedy but his death when compared to the number of deaths there could have been had he been a suicide bomber is the motivation for my "collateral damage" comment, the intelligence pinpointed him as a suicide bomber, the surveillance officers had him down as a suicide bomber so when it came to 1 man dead or 50 men dead if he had turned out to be one tragic though his death was I think that there was no alternative but to eliminate him, what needs to be looked at is the intelligence services who have made 2 Grade A **** ups in the space of a few months

 

 

these guys are patently linked to terrorism, whether it be as active members or as sympahisers... £38k in a bedroom? Why? How?

 

Don't think this was a one-off, botched raid - the tabloids will have you believe it was - it obviously wasn't - it was the culmination of a meticulous, lengthy and expensive surveillance campaign.

 

The do-gooders can shout holy hell for as long as they like - the UK has no time, space or energy to devote anything to scum like these 2 terrorists/sympathisers (I highly believe the former, personally).

 

Get them out of the country.

 

Now.

But if they don't act and there REALLY is a threat then the concequences could be dire. I'd rather them **** up then another set of bombs going off.

these guys are patently linked to terrorism, whether it be as active members or as sympahisers... £38k in a bedroom? Why? How?

 

Don't think this was a one-off, botched raid - the tabloids will have you believe it was - it obviously wasn't - it was the culmination of a meticulous, lengthy and expensive surveillance campaign.

 

The do-gooders can shout holy hell for as long as they like - the UK has no time, space or energy to devote anything to scum like these 2 terrorists/sympathisers (I highly believe the former, personally).

 

Get them out of the country.

 

Now.

 

Mate, I respect you, but you are so wrong over this issue it's unreal, you're too smart to be this wrong, it's unworthy of you. If these guys were terrorists or even sympathisers do you honestly think the pigs would've let them go WITHOUT CHARGE.....? I rather doubt that given the fact there are people in Bellmarsh prison who are there without charge or trial... Get them out of the country?? They were born here, they're as British as you or me mate....

 

How did they get this supposed "intelligence"? I read somewhere that it came from a 'human source'. What the hell does that mean? Some anonymous caller? Some poor sod MI5 fukkin' tortured? Some paid informant? I reckon we should demand to be told exactly what the "intelligence" was.....

 

And as I said before, in a country where we have the rule of law, and the presumption of innocence (which is there for everyone, including you and me, regardless of race, creed, colour, gender or sexual orientation, and we should be very bloody thankful it is...) it is not encumbent on the accused to prove their innocence, rather it is up to the establishment to prove guilt.... That's a principle that's stood for hundreds of years and should not be allowed to be eroded by a bunch of control-freak Nu Labour politicians who want to control our every move...

 

And dont give me this c**p about "War on Terror", that's a fukkin' JOKE. We've caused more terrorism than we've actually combatted, and killed a hundred times more innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere in this ridiculous crusade.....

 

The principle of the Rule of Law has existed and prevaled through possible invasions by the Spanish Armada, the French, the Nazis and the Soviet fukkin' Union, so if it can be held intact in those circumstances where we really were nearly up the sh!tter and still respected (spies and fifth columnists were still given fair trials during WW2 ffs, and even Nazi War criminals, even Rudolph Hess.....) then I see no excuse whatsoever for it not to be held up now....

 

Do you really trust B-Liar and Dubya with your freedoms and liberties.....?

But if they don't act and there REALLY is a threat then the concequences could be dire. I'd rather them **** up then another set of bombs going off.

 

Well, they fukk up and innocent people get shot on the one hand (and are then later slandered at press conferences and "convienient" leaks to the red-tops), and on the other, they fukk up, bombs go off in the capital and then they lie about the suspects being "cleanskins" when in fact they were individuals known to the so-called "Intelligence" services....

 

Why do ya think the Govt doesn't want a full public enquiry onto what really went on in the 7/7 raids....? Instead, we get a report that slags off the emergency services and absolutely NOTHING into investigating what the fukk went wrong with MI5 and MI6......

 

This country is a JOKE!!!!!

 

whilst I agree with you on most of your points - I still, in my heart of hearts, believe these guys are far from innocent.

 

The police and our 'government' have made some atrocious errors since the start of this ridiculous war, and especially since 7/7.... but a lot of these mistakes could have been avoided if the Muslim community in this country did was was right and proper and, without question, stood up and rooted out these members with any links to terrorism, however tenuous.

 

The Muslim community hasn't - and has no intention of doing so.

 

So the question HAS to be asked of our Muslim countryfolk - are you British first or Muslim first?

whilst I agree with you on most of your points - I still, in my heart of hearts, believe these guys are far from innocent.

 

The police and our 'government' have made some atrocious errors since the start of this ridiculous war, and especially since 7/7.... but a lot of these mistakes could have been avoided if the Muslim community in this country did was was right and proper and, without question, stood up and rooted out these members with any links to terrorism, however tenuous.

 

The Muslim community hasn't - and has no intention of doing so.

 

So the question HAS to be asked of our Muslim countryfolk - are you British first or Muslim first?

 

Like I say, it aint up to them to prove they're innocent, the police have to, y'know, collect evidence, make a case, do the legwork, etc, etc. Sometimes I reckon they've been watching too many episodes of ruddy CSI and expect computers to do all the work for them....

 

As for the second part of your post, you could probably say the same about a lot of the Irish Catholic community as well in NI who refused to co-operate with the police after things like Bloody Sunday. But I don't recall anyone expecting them to give up being Catholic. When a community feels under attack, they will adopt a seige mentality, it's human nature. And given the general attitude of the gutter press in this country towards Muslims (which is almost entirely negative as it was against the Irish Catholic community in the 70s and 80s), who the fukk can blame them for feeling under seige...?