I agree on the 2nd paragraph, but not the first. I'm sure the goverment DO pay the full market value of homes. I know people who had the M1 built through their farm, and what they got was double the value of the farm, and they still got to keep the land not destroyed (although they'd just sell it since there isn't a house for them :lol:, but still giving them more money). Same goes with roads built in central Ireland.

I seriously doubt that'd happen, our goverment is very liberal in the wrong ways tbh. They pay extra because of social impact of being forced to move, i'm sure.

You've just mentioned a negative feedback (algae in the sea which absorb CO2), another is that trees will grow faster when there is more CO2, because of photosynthesis, therefore producing more oxygen and removing CO2. However, what you're ignorning is that there are positive feedback effects too that have a greater effect than the negative feedbacks. For example, ice is far more reflective than rock, meaning that the earth continues to heat even further. In fact, for every 1C of warming we directly cause, another 4C of warming will happen indirectly because of positive feedback (admittedly this is very debatable, but is about the only thing i've written here that really is in the scientific 'world'!).

 

Climate is changing far faster than ever before, the changes you talked about are over hundreds of thousands of years, unless you are talking about a supervolcano, which is, of course, a threat to the human race. The changes here are over decades, something never seen before. The natural processes you talk about add a significant proportion of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, but these things have been roughly constant over millions of years, balancing the climate. However, the CO2 increases have been over less than 2 centuries. This is why it's so dangerous, because we don't have time to adapt. We as in human society.

 

the point is that these environmental fads come and go without causing any of the great disasters that they predicted. as for predicting future climates...its all guesswork as the doom mongers especially tend not to use ALL the data available which is why they get it wrong.

 

the rate of change ISNT any worse then previous times. thats just wrong. just look at history, the romans grew grapes as far north as newcastle... the thames used to freeze over... just 2 examples of extreme warmth/cold in the ast 2 millennia... and our official records only stretch back a couple of hundered years at most... hardly reprisentitive of history is it! we as a race have a tendancy to pigeonhole, understand, catagorise the natural world... but the natural world isnt static, it isnt fixed, the climate has never been stable, it has always varied even within our lifetime and that is another fact the doom mongers dont take into account.

Volvo have a massive history in touring cars mate, Rickard Rydell a multiple champion in touring cars had much of his success in Volvo's

 

Before a car can be launched it has to be given a road worthyness licence and pass crash tests before that car is sanctioned to go ok the market, who is responsible for sanctioning cars for crash tests and roadworthiness before a manufacturer is allowed to sell those cars ? the FIA, and who is in charge of F1 ? you got it, the FIA, read up about the FIA mate and the FIA Foundation and you will see how much impact F1 safety and F1 technology has been introduced into road cars, much of it imposed by the FIA on car manuracturers

 

F1 brings huge benefits to every single motorist that has a car and has probably saved the lives of anyone who has survived a head on or side impact collision in the last 20 years

 

Blah, blah, whatever.... It's irrelevant.... Without Formula One, it would simply be another body in charge of testing the road worthiness of vehicles using other methods.... R&D into car design, etc, is NOT 100% dependent on the existence of Motorsports as you are implying, it would happen anyway, because it has to, the public wouldn't buy cars that are untested and potential death traps..... There are many ways to test vehicles.... I dont buy that R&D into cars is totally dependent on the existence of motorsports and that if you removed motorsports, somehow R&D would come to a grinding halt, that's just pure rubbish mate...

 

I'll personally be impressed when R&D manages to come up with a car or a plane which doesn't need pertroleum or high octane fuel to run on.... Mind you, there probably have been advancements in that area, but the technology is likely being sat on because it doesn't exactly suit the interests of the oil companies to have cars running on oil seed rape, vegetable oil, electricity or maybe even water... :rolleyes:

 

the rate of change ISNT any worse then previous times. thats just wrong. just look at history, the romans grew grapes as far north as newcastle... the thames used to freeze over... just 2 examples of extreme warmth/cold in the ast 2 millennia... and our official records only stretch back a couple of hundered years at most... hardly reprisentitive of history is it! we as a race have a tendancy to pigeonhole, understand, catagorise the natural world... but the natural world isnt static, it isnt fixed, the climate has never been stable, it has always varied even within our lifetime and that is another fact the doom mongers dont take into account.

 

Did we have huge clouds of smog, air pollution, large amounts of CO2 or holes in the Ozone layer back then though....? Did people in large cities have to walk around wearing face-masks otherwise they'd become overcome by carbon monoxide emissions...? How on Earth can you deny all the evidence....? Our activities ARE making a difference to the condition of our planet..... Rivers in China, for example, have become so polluted that people can't draw water from them without falling ill or even dying....

 

And Oil, natural gas, etc, WILL run out someday, it simply will NOT last forever, there were only so many dinosaurs you know..... :rolleyes:

Blah, blah, whatever.... It's irrelevant.... Without Formula One, it would simply be another body in charge of testing the road worthiness of vehicles using other methods.... R&D into car design, etc, is NOT 100% dependent on the existence of Motorsports as you are implying, it would happen anyway, because it has to, the public wouldn't buy cars that are untested and potential death traps..... There are many ways to test vehicles.... I dont buy that R&D into cars is totally dependent on the existence of motorsports and that if you removed motorsports, somehow R&D would come to a grinding halt, that's just pure rubbish mate...

 

I'll personally be impressed when R&D manages to come up with a car or a plane which doesn't need pertroleum or high octane fuel to run on.... Mind you, there probably have been advancements in that area, but the technology is likely being sat on because it doesn't exactly suit the interests of the oil companies to have cars running on oil seed rape, vegetable oil, electricity or maybe even water... :rolleyes:

Renault have developed a Hydrogen power Scenic, it works properly and everythin, AutoExpress tested it.

 

It is possible, but the Renault Scenic in question was worth over a million euros.

 

The technology needs to be cheaper for it to become mainstream

yeeeeaaasssss..... but this is 2009, not the past, we are supposed to be more civilised now after all...would YOU want society to revert to conditions that lead to the levellers, chartists and suffragettes lived in? :lol:

 

voilence ruins the argument, no one listens to voilant thugs, they respect reason, which is how we got our more enlightened society today.

 

The likes of Fred the Shred respect nothing and the law is simply too inadequate to deal with the likes of him, I mean, are they even TRYING to bring these people to justice.....? No, they're not, it's all the "old boys" together, a nod, a wink, a funny handshake and a Golden Hanshake (mind you, Fred the Shred's deal is more like a Golden Hand-JOB.... :rolleyes: ) in the form of "compensation" when these buggers get caught out....

 

And I simply dont buy your argument that we're somehow more "civilised".... Sure, we dont wage wars in Europe anymore, we just go elsewhere to do so - Iraq, Afghanistan, and sell arms to places such as Burma, Israel, many places in Africa, the Middle East, etc who use these weapons against civilian populations.... Instead of swords, cannons and muskets, now we have assault rifles, cluster bombs, anthrax and nuclear weapons which can kill vastly more people than the likes of Napoleon, Cromwell or General Gordon could ever dream of.... Oh, yes, how far we have "progressed" mate..... :rolleyes: The history of the world is war and violence, and continues to be so.... No, I dont believe that we are more civilised at all....

 

And, it's pretty damn obvious to me that there are still human rights to be fought for in the world, and in our own country.... Which is WHY we still need the spirit of Thomas Rainsborough, Freeborn John Lilburne and Emiline Pankhurst to continue as the struggle continues against the oppressive state.....

 

To quote Thomas Rainsborough...."For really I thinke that the poorest hee that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest hee, and therefore Truly Sr I thinke itt clear, that every Man that is to live undr a Government ought first by his own Consent to put himself under that Government; and I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put Himself under"

 

A licence to protest any and ALL injustice if you ask me....

Renault have developed a Hydrogen power Scenic, it works properly and everythin, AutoExpress tested it.

 

It is possible, but the Renault Scenic in question was worth over a million euros.

 

The technology needs to be cheaper for it to become mainstream

 

If you had all F1 racing cars running on hydrogen, then I would have no problems with the sport.....

 

Well, I'd still find it unforgivably boring to sit and watch..... :lol:

 

Did we have huge clouds of smog, air pollution, large amounts of CO2 or holes in the Ozone layer back then though....? Did people in large cities have to walk around wearing face-masks otherwise they'd become overcome by carbon monoxide emissions...? How on Earth can you deny all the evidence....? Our activities ARE making a difference to the condition of our planet..... Rivers in China, for example, have become so polluted that people can't draw water from them without falling ill or even dying....

 

And Oil, natural gas, etc, WILL run out someday, it simply will NOT last forever, there were only so many dinosaurs you know..... :rolleyes:

 

LOCALLY yes, the facts are that in many ways we have turned the pollution corner now with cleaner air and much cleaner rivers then we had only 30 years ago. if china did the same then they too would have healthier rivers. mans effect globally on climate change is all but insignificant.

 

The likes of Fred the Shred respect nothing and the law is simply too inadequate to deal with the likes of him, I mean, are they even TRYING to bring these people to justice.....? No, they're not, it's all the "old boys" together, a nod, a wink, a funny handshake and a Golden Hanshake (mind you, Fred the Shred's deal is more like a Golden Hand-JOB.... :rolleyes: ) in the form of "compensation" when these buggers get caught out....

 

And I simply dont buy your argument that we're somehow more "civilised".... Sure, we dont wage wars in Europe anymore, we just go elsewhere to do so - Iraq, Afghanistan, and sell arms to places such as Burma, Israel, many places in Africa, the Middle East, etc who use these weapons against civilian populations.... Instead of swords, cannons and muskets, now we have assault rifles, cluster bombs, anthrax and nuclear weapons which can kill vastly more people than the likes of Napoleon, Cromwell or General Gordon could ever dream of.... Oh, yes, how far we have "progressed" mate..... :rolleyes: The history of the world is war and violence, and continues to be so.... No, I dont believe that we are more civilised at all....

 

And, it's pretty damn obvious to me that there are still human rights to be fought for in the world, and in our own country.... Which is WHY we still need the spirit of Thomas Rainsborough, Freeborn John Lilburne and Emiline Pankhurst to continue as the struggle continues against the oppressive state.....

 

oh man sometimes you talk utter rubbish..

 

just look what social changes YOU have witnessed, equality for one, where attitudes towards women, blacks, gays, etc have taken a MASSIVE step foreward and is STILL going in the right direction. theres the wealfare state, childline, recourse to complain - consumer rights, to highlight but a few social changes.... and you think we are no more civilisaed then in victorian times? :lol:

 

I do find it ironic that all these lefties/socialists/marxists/communists who are anti capitalism are using a method called protest that would not be allowed in the very type of states they wish Britain to be

 

They want Britain to be some marxist / socialist state but do they really think that if Britain became one that these type of protests indeed any protest at all would be allowed in this country ?

 

Would these demonstrations be allowed in China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba and so on ? would they f***

 

Define irony - Irony is a bunch of lefties using a method of putting their point across that would not be allowed if the type of government they want came into power :rolleyes:

 

If you had all F1 racing cars running on hydrogen, then I would have no problems with the sport.....

 

Well, I'd still find it unforgivably boring to sit and watch..... :lol:

Hydrogen power is too big and heavy to use in F1 right now.

 

They are making progress, engines are smaller and more efficient than they were 5years ago.

 

The last year of 3litre V10's in 2006 Renault had the most economical engine the sport had ever seen. There is no question about the fact that the tecnology has been passed down to the new ECO2 range of engines and the other power plants all emit and consume less now than they did 5years ago.

 

 

F1 has aims to go greener, hence KERS and Richard Branson's new sponsorship of Brawn GP to try to lobby the teams from the inside to switch to a cleaner more renewable fuel. Much like the Aussie V8 Spuercars have. They run on 85% ethanol.

I personally love the smell of petrol

 

Going to a Grand Prix one of the most beautiful surreal feelings is being able to sniff the air of petrol/oil when those lovely cars are about, nothing beats the whiff of Castrol GTX at a motorsports meeting

The smell was quite heavenly. Even the V8's smelt amazing.

 

 

I couldn't give a f*** if the smell of petrol is carcinogenic it's f***ing amazing. By far my favourite smell ^_^

I must admit, watching the news, it is an interesting sight, all of the world leaders together in one room... :heehee:

 

But even more interesting is the amount of protesters that have gathered in London today! :o

The site at the bank of England is amazing! :o

I do find it ironic that all these lefties/socialists/marxists/communists who are anti capitalism are using a method called protest that would not be allowed in the very type of states they wish Britain to be

 

They want Britain to be some marxist / socialist state but do they really think that if Britain became one that these type of protests indeed any protest at all would be allowed in this country ?

 

Would these demonstrations be allowed in China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba and so on ? would they f***

 

Define irony - Irony is a bunch of lefties using a method of putting their point across that would not be allowed if the type of government they want came into power :rolleyes:

 

:lol: EXACTLY!

 

i dont know why the police just dont shoot dead the yobs causing trouble, they do looters . yet again the legitimate protests are being hi-jacked by thugs with little interest in politics who are just using this as an excuse for vandalism... :angry:

 

and what was even worse was the mob who attacked the police who were coming to the aid of a DYING protester :angry: :angry: fcuk that scott....

:lol: EXACTLY!

 

i dont know why the police just dont shoot dead the yobs causing trouble, they do looters . yet again the legitimate protests are being hi-jacked by thugs with little interest in politics who are just using this as an excuse for vandalism... :angry:

 

and what was even worse was the mob who attacked the police who were coming to the aid of a DYING protester :angry: :angry: fcuk that scott....

 

GOD, one incident, and you're just prepared to ignore the fact that even the cops said that the vast majority of events passed without any problems.... It's unfortunate, but sh"t happens dude... From what I can gather, the bloke just collapsed, probably heart attack..... I would imagine that most of the crowd just weren't aware of the situation and thought that the police were coming in to charge the crowd.... Like I say, unfortunate, but NOT anything deliberate....

 

I DID hear about RBS having its windows put in.... GOOD.... Speaking as a customer at that fukkin' bank, just a shame I missed that.....

 

You and Craig are just utterly pig ignorant.... IF we did live in a world which was more Socialist/Marxist (REAL socialism, not Stalinism or Maoism) and a more caring, just and civilised world, we wouldn't even need to protest....

 

And if you dont believe that the protestors aren't interested in politics or the world at large, then that just proves again your total lack of understanding of the issues.... EVERYONE I was with yesterday on the protests had very strong political views, just because you and Craig dont happen to agree with them.... -_- And, Craig, you are SUCH a fukkin' hypocrite.... You were praising the "mob" who last week trashed Fred the Shred's place and now you're against these bigger, more organised, more effective protests.....

just look what social changes YOU have witnessed, equality for one, where attitudes towards women, blacks, gays, etc have taken a MASSIVE step foreward and is STILL going in the right direction. theres the wealfare state, childline, recourse to complain - consumer rights, to highlight but a few social changes.... and you think we are no more civilisaed then in victorian times? :lol:

 

 

 

ALL of these things you are talking about look good on paper, but ultimately, there is still much prejudice and injustice in this country, if you dont think that there's still a hell of lot to fight for, then you really dont keep up to date on things.... The ordinary man on the street still has very little say, very little power to actually do anything.. When you're talking about a situation that we had in 2003 when over 2 million people took to the streets peacefully in order to protest against invading Iraq, and it happened anyway, it just proved to me that "peaceful" protest simply wont be taken notice of, as neither will public opinion, even when it's obvious that the overwhelming majority were simply against the war.... If you want to know why I've become far more militant and leftist in my politics, it IS because of that, and because it's blatantly obvious to me that the common working man and woman has been utterly betrayed by a so-called "Party of the Workers".....

 

The facts are, Rob, you are an utter hypocrite.... You would NEVER be so forgiving of Thatcher or Major, and yet you are prepared to forgive Brown his many, MANY shortcomings..... <_<

i dont know why the police just dont shoot dead the yobs causing trouble,

 

Yeah, because that would really guarantee a peaceful march wouldn't it.....? You're an idiot...... <_<

 

Just what the fukk is your problem....? These people had no interest in "looting" and they were far from being Chavs or "vanadals".... Chavs would just sit at home on their fat, obese arses and have absolutely no opinion on these matters at all, and vandals have no reason behind the destruction they cause, there WAS a reason yesterday, people are utterly p!ssed off..... Why do you think it was RBS in particular that got targeted.....? Gee, MIGHT have something to do with the fact that RBS was the bank that Fred the Shred was the head of, what do you think.....? Fool.... :rolleyes:

 

So what...? A few banking institutions got their windows smashed.....? Big deal.... It was only damage to PROPERTY at the end of the day, INSURED property at that... And, Christ, we fukkin' OWN these banks now anyway, so fukk 'em..... Why should I have sympathy for a bunch of bankers feeling a bit put out....? Christ, THEIR actions have put everyone out....

I do find it ironic that all these lefties/socialists/marxists/communists who are anti capitalism are using a method called protest that would not be allowed in the very type of states they wish Britain to be

 

They want Britain to be some marxist / socialist state but do they really think that if Britain became one that these type of protests indeed any protest at all would be allowed in this country ?

 

Would these demonstrations be allowed in China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba and so on ? would they f***

 

Define irony - Irony is a bunch of lefties using a method of putting their point across that would not be allowed if the type of government they want came into power :rolleyes:

Erm, look at the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway etc. - all socialist states where protests are allowed :P If you think China, Russia and North Korea are true socialist states then you're talking on a Crazy Chris level tbh! :lol: Cuba's one I'm very ambivalent on though...

GOD, one incident, and you're just prepared to ignore the fact that even the cops said that the vast majority of events passed without any problems.... It's unfortunate, but sh"t happens dude... From what I can gather, the bloke just collapsed, probably heart attack..... I would imagine that most of the crowd just weren't aware of the situation and thought that the police were coming in to charge the crowd.... Like I say, unfortunate, but NOT anything deliberate....

 

I DID hear about RBS having its windows put in.... GOOD.... Speaking as a customer at that fukkin' bank, just a shame I missed that.....

 

You and Craig are just utterly pig ignorant.... IF we did live in a world which was more Socialist/Marxist (REAL socialism, not Stalinism or Maoism) and a more caring, just and civilised world, we wouldn't even need to protest....

 

And if you dont believe that the protestors aren't interested in politics or the world at large, then that just proves again your total lack of understanding of the issues.... EVERYONE I was with yesterday on the protests had very strong political views, just because you and Craig dont happen to agree with them.... -_- And, Craig, you are SUCH a fukkin' hypocrite.... You were praising the "mob" who last week trashed Fred the Shred's place and now you're against these bigger, more organised, more effective protests.....

 

i was condeming the louts who only go to protests to cause trouble, they are the ones with little or no interest in politics.

 

so everyone you spoke to had strong political views..... doesnt mean they are right though!

 

 

ALL of these things you are talking about look good on paper, but ultimately, there is still much prejudice and injustice in this country, if you dont think that there's still a hell of lot to fight for, then you really dont keep up to date on things.... The ordinary man on the street still has very little say, very little power to actually do anything.. When you're talking about a situation that we had in 2003 when over 2 million people took to the streets peacefully in order to protest against invading Iraq, and it happened anyway, it just proved to me that "peaceful" protest simply wont be taken notice of, as neither will public opinion, even when it's obvious that the overwhelming majority were simply against the war.... If you want to know why I've become far more militant and leftist in my politics, it IS because of that, and because it's blatantly obvious to me that the common working man and woman has been utterly betrayed by a so-called "Party of the Workers".....

 

The facts are, Rob, you are an utter hypocrite.... You would NEVER be so forgiving of Thatcher or Major, and yet you are prepared to forgive Brown his many, MANY shortcomings..... <_<

 

scott, if you dont think that todays society has improved vastly in the last 30 years especially in the cases i cited...then you are an idiot. i did stress that we are not yet all the way there in equality issues, but we are miles better off then we were in the 70's, pre-punk.

 

Yeah, because that would really guarantee a peaceful march wouldn't it.....? You're an idiot...... <_<

 

Just what the fukk is your problem....? These people had no interest in "looting" and they were far from being Chavs or "vanadals".... Chavs would just sit at home on their fat, obese arses and have absolutely no opinion on these matters at all, and vandals have no reason behind the destruction they cause, there WAS a reason yesterday, people are utterly p!ssed off..... Why do you think it was RBS in particular that got targeted.....? Gee, MIGHT have something to do with the fact that RBS was the bank that Fred the Shred was the head of, what do you think.....? Fool.... :rolleyes:

 

So what...? A few banking institutions got their windows smashed.....? Big deal.... It was only damage to PROPERTY at the end of the day, INSURED property at that... And, Christ, we fukkin' OWN these banks now anyway, so fukk 'em..... Why should I have sympathy for a bunch of bankers feeling a bit put out....? Christ, THEIR actions have put everyone out....

 

:lol: hook, line and sinker! :P

 

c'mon man, i posted that yesterday..... april 1st! :lol:

 

A man has been killed at the protests.

 

Just saw it on the Ten news update -_-

 

Shame it takes fatalities to get people to notice, although i highly doubt Brown will even care.