if that was true then the rest of this site is in a VERY bad way.....

 

Hahaha touché, well played! Maybe I should've narrowed it down to the Pop Forum.

you appeared to 'assume', because you admitted that you cba to read the thread and the points you made had been covered.

 

it is a pretty stupid thing to do isnt it? posting a comment without understanding where the discussion had got to...

 

your point wont ever be changed?... but isnt that what you just accused grimly of? :lol:

 

the reasons we are anti-miming are very well documented throughout this thread...ooops you did it again (:lol:)

 

The post I replied to was yours and you said something along the lines of "but it shouldn't be accepted" and I posted from that.

Then when you replied to me, complaining that I'd gone off topic, I told you I wasn't going through the last 4+ pages to see the same thing..

It's pretty stupid when you don't understand this. If I'm posting a reply to the last thing said, surely that's commenting on where the argument had got to? Hmm..

 

No, it's not. As my point is that people are allowed to think differently to you and Grimly and if people wish to pay even an extortionate amount to see Britney, it's their own doing.

They do not have to be called lame, stupid, thick, unintelligent, a c**t or whatever you can come up with.

The point he is putting across is that everyone who thinks it's acceptable to do so is in the wrong and that is not right.

 

And the reasons people are pro-miming are also very well documented in this thread, but our views and opinions just get dismissed as stupid.

Edited June 11, 200916 yr by Scherz

The post I replied to was yours and you said something along the lines of "but it shouldn't be accepted" and I posted from that.

Then when you replied to me, complaining that I'd gone off topic, I told you I wasn't going through the last 4+ pages to see the same thing..

It's pretty stupid when you don't understand this. If I'm posting a reply to the last thing said, surely that's commenting on where the argument had got to? Hmm..

 

No, it's not. As my point is that people are allowed to think differently to you and Grimly and if people wish to pay even an extortionate amount to see Britney, it's their own doing.

They do not have to be called lame, stupid, thick, unintelligent, a c**t or whatever you can come up with.

The point he is putting across is that everyone who thinks it's acceptable to do so is in the wrong and that is not right.

 

And the reasons people are pro-miming are also very well documented in this thread, but our views and opinions just get dismissed as stupid.

 

the point of this forum is to DISCUSS topics, so opposing sides can put foreward their views backed by reasoned thought. what i read here is that the 'antis' have forewarded a VERY strong argument why miming shouldnt be acceptable, the 'pro's' argument relies on 'we dont care'.... :lol: now to me this makes it a pretty one sided debate, with the 'pro's' failing to foreward a decent reason why it could be acceptable. we have also outlined the detriment to the music industry this type of 'show' could lead too. surely its in every music lovers interest to support a rich, creative and vibrant music scene? i just hope that our arguments will make any thoughtful person think seriously about what we have put and why... and maybe change their mind in the long run..

 

is it any wonder then that many of the 'pro's' are called 'thick' 'stupid' 'lame' etc... but as ive already posted, using mildly offensive names are part and parcel of what me and scott do in real life down the pub with our mates..

is it any wonder then that many of the 'pro's' are called 'thick' 'stupid' 'lame' etc... but as ive already posted, using mildly offensive names are part and parcel of what me and scott do in real life down the pub with our mates..

 

Um, yeah.

Well, let me remind you that we're not in a REAL LIFE pub and we are most certainly NOT mates, so why would anyone want to use those names on here?

Besides, One of my friends would never even dream of calling me a c**t in a jokey way. That's just offensive.

Oh but then I forget, I don't go to REAL LIFE pubs, with REAL LIFE men and have REAL LIFE jokes.

What a laugh :lol:

Um, yeah.

Well, let me remind you that we're not in a REAL LIFE pub and we are most certainly NOT mates, so why would anyone want to use those names on here?

 

because thats what we do...its how we are and im not going to have a fake virtual identity just to fit in here!!!!!

the point of this forum is to DISCUSS topics, so opposing sides can put foreward their views backed by reasoned thought. what i read here is that the 'antis' have forewarded a VERY strong argument why miming shouldnt be acceptable, the 'pro's' argument relies on 'we dont care'.... :lol:

 

Which is not even an argument, it's just apathetic, petulant, childish ignorance of what the issue actually is about... we're debating ethics, the likes of Sherz and Tyler are just shrugging their shoulders and not caring like a bunch of 'Kevin the Teenagers'.... And they actually call themselves "music fans".... Which is really the biggest joke of all.... A Music Fan doesn't tolerate this kind of cr@p any more than a sports fan would tolerate a fukkin' Drugs cheat or unsportsmanlike conduct on the field.....

 

To just rely on the argument that she's an "entertainer" is also completely false and is shows a total lack of understanding of what an "Entertainer" does.... Try looking up the real "Entertainers" of years gone by, guys like Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr, Dean Martin, Elvis Presley etc.... Actually LOOK at what these guys did..... Did any of them actually fake it...? Or resort to miming... Sinatra was still singing live to audiences when he was in his 70s.... Well, what does that make Britney Spears and Michael Jackson look like....? Utter C/UNTS in my book..... :rolleyes:

 

im not going to have a fake virtual identity just to fit in here!!!!!

 

Me neither....

 

Sherz, if you cant handle the fact that me and Rob are actually "4-Real", I suggest you scurry off to your favoured "Artist Forums" and "LOL" and "OMG" and "She/He is HAWT" to your heart's content.... You clearly cant handle a debate with a bunch of REAL adults.....

No mods in this forum?

They've both been in and refused to do anything. =/ This thread is beyond ridiculous now. Argument going round in circles, Grimly getting aggressive and refusing to agree to disagree. It's the Saturdays all over again. CLOSE please Aly/Aled.

I could argue any point and you'd call it ridiculous.

 

If you can actually come up with any kind of SENSIBLE justification for miming at a live show, then I'd love to hear it, the fact is no one has or can really EVER justify a reason for miming at a paying show.... Like I said, I dont much care about TV appearances on chat shows or saturday morning kids telly, you get the option there, but when it's billed as "LIVE Entertainment", it should be just that..... Whether or not you and the other Britney fans "mind" or not is utterly irrelevant, it's the precedent that's being set here... And also, it's insulting to the professionalism of other live acts out there who are busting their nut every night for their fans..... Because it wouldn't exactly be unreasonable for anyone to ask, "well if Britney and Jackson are doing it, how many others out there are....?". Which is why we need a zero tolerance for it.... And it really should be of some kind of embarrassment to Britney's "professionalism" that she's incapable of doing something that teengers such as The Saturdays, Gabrielle Cilmi and even bloody MILEY CYRUS, THE most manufactured of the manufactured, is doing every show they do..... Frankly, if I was Brit, I'd be ashamed of myself and actually start to get vocal coaching lessons.....

 

Me neither....

 

Sherz, if you cant handle the fact that me and Rob are actually "4-Real", I suggest you scurry off to your favoured "Artist Forums" and "LOL" and "OMG" and "She/He is HAWT" to your heart's content.... You clearly cant handle a debate with a bunch of REAL adults.....

 

Well, if that's being "4-Real" then I don't want to be.

Like, OMG. Get over yourselves.

They've both been in and refused to do anything. =/ This thread is beyond ridiculous now. Argument going round in circles, Grimly getting aggressive and refusing to agree to disagree. It's the Saturdays all over again. CLOSE please Aly/Aled.

 

Oh, right, and I'm the only one getting aggressive am I....? I guess I just have to put up with being told to "shut the fukk up" or to "go and fukk myself", and not actually be allowed to react to it.... Fukk that, I didn't start this sh!t, but I'm sure as hell not gonna run off like a little girl.... Why should I "agree to disagree" with people who are fundamentally WRONG and dont even come up with any kind of credible argument much beyond the frankly pathetic "we dont care" shoulder shrugging... Well, if they "dont care" then they should sod off out of a "Music Discussion" Forum and go off to the Artist forums to uncritically bum all their "idols"....

Oh, right, and I'm the only one getting aggressive am I....? I guess I just have to put up with being told to "shut the fukk up" or to "go and fukk myself", and not actually be allowed to react to it.... Fukk that, I didn't start this sh!t, but I'm sure as hell not gonna run off like a little girl.... Why should I "agree to disagree" with people who are fundamentally WRONG and dont even come up with any kind of credible argument much beyond the frankly pathetic "we dont care" shoulder shrugging... Well, if they "dont care" then they should sod off out of a "Music Discussion" Forum and go off to the Artist forums to uncritically bum all their "idols"....

This is EXACTLY the problem with your argument though - you think their personal tastes and preferences are wrong! There's no such thing! We may not understand why you'd she'll out £55 to see Britney mime and dance badly but they actually enjoy it - you're in no position to tell them 'you are wrong!'. Why can't you face the fact that not everybody agrees with you? It's because if you agreed to disagree then you wouldn't have the oppurtunity to throw your weight around and get agressive (which, yes, you have been doing since you began this thread). Christ, when even I and Bertie can get through a debate without being rude and insulting I would've thought you'd be able to! This needs locking, for your credibility as much as for everybody else's sanity.

but I'll say that this is the most hilarious [verging on ridiculous] thread I've read on here. Ever.

 

It's certainly gotten ridiculous because of the absolutely cretinous arguments that some people are coming away with to try and justify their "idols" screwing them over.....

 

I never knew that Britney or Jacko fans could be so masochistic..... :rolleyes: Well, actually, it's the Britney fans making the most noise, no one's actually mounting much of a defence for Jackson.... :lol:

This is EXACTLY the problem with your argument though - you think their personal tastes and preferences are wrong! There's no such thing! We may not understand why you'd she'll out £55 to see Britney mime and dance badly but they actually enjoy it - you're in no position to tell them 'you are wrong!'. Why can't you face the fact that not everybody agrees with you? It's because if you agreed to disagree then you wouldn't have the oppurtunity to throw your weight around and get agressive (which, yes, you have been doing since you began this thread). Christ, when even I and Bertie can get through a debate without being rude and insulting I would've thought you'd be able to! This needs locking, for your credibility as much as for everybody else's sanity.

 

Whose actually talking about "personal tastes"?? I've continually stressed time and time again, that the actual individual act or the genre is irrelevant, it's the ACT itself of cheating that's the fundamental problem, I dont care WHO does it, or if it's an act I like or dont like; frankly, I care not for Britney (she's nothing more than a fake whore), but I'd find it infinitely worse if it was an act I did like that were doing this, and what's to actually stop this practice spreading if a line isn't drawn in the sand.....? It should just be a given that cheating others in any circumstances (whether they're aware of it or not) is wrong, and if people find it acceptable, then I have to wonder as to their character.. Are they going through their lives cheating and lying and being as dishonest as their idols....? At the end of the day Jark, it's about having some standards..... If you dont have those, then you're just fukked in my book....

 

I'm touched by your concerns for my credibility Jark, but you needn't worry, I've not said anything here that I wouldn't say to someone's face.... If folks cant handle that, not my problem, at the end of the day, I know myself, Rob, Richard and even your good self, have made a good argument that practically NO ONE has been able to put so much as a dent in..... What you have to realise about me is that I dont back down.. EVER... And I wont pretend to be something I'm not... It's the Punk Rocker in me.... :P

Whose actually talking about "personal tastes"?? I've continually stressed time and time again, that the actual individual act or the genre is irrelevant, it's the ACT itself of cheating that's the fundamental problem, I dont care WHO does it, or if it's an act I like or dont like; frankly, I care not for Britney (she's nothing more than a fake whore), but I'd find it infinitely worse if it was an act I did like that were doing this, and what's to actually stop this practice spreading if a line isn't drawn in the sand.....? It should just be a given that cheating others in any circumstances (whether they're aware of it or not) is wrong, and if people find it acceptable, then I have to wonder as to their character.. Are they going through their lives cheating and lying and being as dishonest as their idols....? At the end of the day Jark, it's about having some standards..... If you dont have those, then you're just fukked in my book....

Okay, so answer me this: what exactly are you expecting out of this thread? What will it take for you to stop dizzying yourself with this same old argument? We know what you think. We know what the Brit fans think. We know that Britney isn't going to stop miming any time soon and we know that people aren't going to stop buying her concert tickets... so what is it you want?

Whose actually talking about "personal tastes"?? I've continually stressed time and time again, that the actual individual act or the genre is irrelevant, it's the ACT itself of cheating that's the fundamental problem, I dont care WHO does it, or if it's an act I like or dont like; frankly, I care not for Britney (she's nothing more than a fake whore), but I'd find it infinitely worse if it was an act I did like that were doing this, and what's to actually stop this practice spreading if a line isn't drawn in the sand.....? It should just be a given that cheating others in any circumstances (whether they're aware of it or not) is wrong, and if people find it acceptable, then I have to wonder as to their character.. Are they going through their lives cheating and lying and being as dishonest as their idols....? At the end of the day Jark, it's about having some standards..... If you dont have those, then you're just fukked in my book....

 

I refuse to believe you're arguing your point because you're worried about people's "characters" & "standards".

That's the biggest crock of sh!t I've seen in a long time.

And if that really is the reason you're doing it, I think you should focus your efforts on someone who needs some serious work on their character and standards... yourself.

And if that really is the reason you're doing it, I think you should focus your efforts on someone who needs some serious work on their character and standards... yourself.

 

And, er, what exactly is wrong with MY standards then....? I have pretty HIGH standards, thank you very much..... What's wrong with that....? :rolleyes: I mean, gee, I must be SO FUKKIN' UNREASONABLE to actually have such incredibly unrealistic standards as to expect people I pay £40 or £50 quid to go and see perform actually do Perform..... Yeah, such a totally unrealisitic set of standards...... :rolleyes:

 

As for character, well frankly, would you rather I was a kind of fukkin' TROLL going around pretending to be summat I'm not, or some kind of sleazy fukkin' Internet pervert who pretends to be a teenager to groom young girls or boys....? No, I really have no problems with who I am mate.... I'm just me, take it or leave it.....

 

Okay, so answer me this: what exactly are you expecting out of this thread? What will it take for you to stop dizzying yourself with this same old argument? We know what you think. We know what the Brit fans think. We know that Britney isn't going to stop miming any time soon and we know that people aren't going to stop buying her concert tickets... so what is it you want?

 

I want people to wake up and realise that the likes of Brit and Jacko are thoroughly dishonest, and are making money for old rope.... And for people to actually demand something a bit better from their idols, after all, they're making these people rich and seem to think that being shat on by these c/unts is somehow a privelege..... I view the likes of Britney and Jacko in pretty much the same contempt as I do for politicians who fiddle their expenses.... A fiddle is a fiddle at the end of the day, if you just sit back and allow it, nothing changes or gets better. The irony is, that Britney could probably be one of the greatest performers/entertainers on the planet, and an even greater irony is that Michael Jackson once was...... What I want is for people to realise the fundamental truth - that while these individuals are faking it, they're not performing for anyone.......

Well they're not going to because the 'truth' is subjective, not fundemental, sadly for you...

Well they're not going to because the 'truth' is subjective, not fundemental, sadly for you...

 

Actually, that's wrong, there are Universal Truths which are pretty damned fundamental (eg, "I think, therefore I am")..... :lol: But, that would be going too much into philosophy..... :P

 

I would also say that there's a pretty evident truth in saying if someone is faking a performance, then they're not performing..... I'd really like to see anyone that could refute that..... There's a pretty big difference between an Appearance (which is just turning up on a stage and moving around a bit, which is basically what Brit is doing) and a Performance (which is turning up, putting the work in as an actual SINGER, which is your de facto job description, and actually doing what you're being paid for).....