Who said its accepted? Another one of those evil stereotypes. Britney falls into the pure pop category, her target fan base ranges, but the genre as a whole has an appeal to young girls. Pre-teens. These young children i highly doubt care that she is miming, if they know at all.

 

 

if it wasnt being accepted then no one would attend her concerts knowing full well that britney fakes it. .... and thats the whole problem, a generation of youngsters growing up without the standard that says miming is WRONG.

 

21 pages and no single ranting word of McFly, I'm glad :D Sorry for offtopic

 

why should mcfly get any hasstle? they always (have they not) performed live, wether or not you like them. busted and mcfly were 2 of the main acts earlier this decade (when 'pop' was rife) that showed just how pop should be played.... live, loud, fun.

 

 

I wasn't talking about the singing live thing :heehee: so there wasn't really any need to bring it up "again" :P I was more aiming it at how Mushy was saying her performances were "robotic" when he hadn't seen anything. :P

 

robotic as in following set movements in time to music... a 'polished' set, not robotic as in jerky stuff, early 80's style nonsense :)

 

Songs she has written or co- written:

 

Dear Diary

Anticipating

(I've Just Begun) Havin My Fun

And Then We Kiss

Everytime

Someday (I Will Understand)

That's Where You Take Me

Me Against The Music

Ooh Ooh Baby

Everybody

The Hook Up

Mona Lisa

Showdown

Touch Of My Hand

Mannequin

Mmm Papi

My Baby

Brave New Girl

Rebellion

State Of Grace

Let Go

Freakshow

Little Me

 

That's off the top of my head.

 

but like as in jackos case....and in fact nearly all other pop puppets, just how much input did they actually have on song composition? in many cases all they did was tweek it here and there thus claiming 'composer rights' when in reality they did fcuk all. tbh i simply dont believe these artists had anything much more then that to do with any composition... her, jacko, saturdays, rachel stevens etc etc

 

I know you're trying to make an example Craig, but Steven Gerrard the SECOND biggest diver in the world?!?!! He's done it a few times i'll give you that, but comparing him to some of the foreign players such as Robben, Morten Gamst Pedernsen etc. etc. The only notable time he's ever done it was that time against Athletico Madrid.

 

He shouldn't be doing it at all though, even once or twice in a career is unforgiveable, the guy is a ROLE MODEL, probably the biggest idol in the country for kids as a footballer although Ronaldo might have run him close so he has a responsibility to those that look up to him to behve ethically, to me Gerrard diving to get a penalty or to get a player sent off is as bad as an athlete taking drugs to get a gold medal at the olympics, I slag DidierZokora off all the time when he dives but it is slightly more forgiveable in his case as he is not a role model and the player kids want to be when they are kicking a football about in the street, kids see what Gerrard does and copy it themselves

 

I delberately named Gerrard because he is this country's biggest kid role model as a footballer whereas Robben and Pedersen like you said are cheats but they are not role models to English boys on the scale of what Gerrard is

 

It is not just footballers too it is celebrities in general or tv personalities who have a social responsibility, that is why I don't like tv shows like the Apprentice, while it is entertaining the behaviour of the contestants backstabbing and cheating and lying to try gain an advantage sets an appalling example to young viewers and makes them think they have to behave like that in a workplace environment, it is television though and in the real world youngsters try behave like they do in the work place they will be sacked before they can blink but Apprentice makes them think they have to act like that and undermine their workmates

Edited June 13, 200916 yr by B.A Baracus

He shouldn't be doing it at all though, even once or twice in a career is unforgiveable, the guy is a ROLE MODEL, probably the biggest idol in the country for kids as a footballer although Ronaldo might have run him close so he has a responsibility to those that look up to him to behve ethically, to me Gerrard diving to get a penalty or to get a player sent off is as bad as an athlete taking drugs to get a gold medal at the olympics, I slag DidierZokora off all the time when he dives but it is slightly more forgiveable in his case as he is not a role model and the player kids want to be when they are kicking a football about in the street, kids see what Gerrard does and copy it themselves

 

I delberately named Gerrard because he is this country's biggest kid role model as a footballer whereas Robben and Pedersen like you said are cheats but they are not role models to English boys on the scale of what Gerrard is

 

It is not just footballers too it is celebrities in general or tv personalities who have a social responsibility, that is why I don't like tv shows like the Apprentice, while it is entertaining the behaviour of the contestants backstabbing and cheating and lying to try gain an advantage sets an appalling example to young viewers and makes them think they have to behave like that in a workplace environment, it is television though and in the real world youngsters try behave like they do in the work place they will be sacked before they can blink but Apprentice makes them think they have to act like that and undermine their workmates

 

 

May I suggest getting your facts correct before restating the Rupert Murdoch inc (pro Manchester United/anti Liverpool propaganda) that the facts don't back up:

 

Optika Statistics

2008/09 Premiership most assimilations:

 

1. Drogba 26

2. C. Ronaldo 22

3. Pederson 21

4. Elmander 17

5. Ballack 16

-----------------------

23= Gerrard 7

 

Hell, the likes of Wayne Rooney 13; Frank Lampard 9; Peter Crouch 12 have dived more than Stevie G this season. And he is not even Liverpool's biggest diver (Torres 10).

I think the whole idea of going to see an artist 'live' is to hear them sing 'live' too. I went to see Britney Spears last Sunday at the 02 Arena, I didn't but the tickets my friend did and wanted someone to go with her. She didn't sing live. It really annoyed me for several reasons; if she can't live, who is singing on her CDs? There was no connection between her and the audience. She paid £50 for a ticket to see a woman with blonde hair strut about a stage, lip-syncing. It didn't bother my friend, she is a HUGE fan and in her eyes she can do no wrong, but if I paid £50 for a ticket and driven for 6hrs I would be mightly pissed off and surely by claiming it's 'live' they are miselling the tickets? I mean she was a-live but certainly no live singing!

 

(On the plus side it was a great spectacle, the circus act were amazing and the show itself was good, just the lack of singing from a recording artist annoyed me!)

21 pages and no single ranting word of McFly, I'm glad :D Sorry for offtopic

 

When did McFly go on tour and pretend to play to their paying audiences.....? :unsure: They may have mimed TV appearances, but that's a different story, the debate's not about that, it's about tours and paying shows, festivals, etc..... To my knowledge McFly has never mimed on a tour or a festival, so they're not the problem....

 

May I suggest getting your facts correct before restating the Rupert Murdoch inc (pro Manchester United/anti Liverpool propaganda) that the facts don't back up:

 

Optika Statistics

2008/09 Premiership most assimilations:

 

1. Drogba 26

2. C. Ronaldo 22

3. Pederson 21

4. Elmander 17

5. Ballack 16

-----------------------

23= Gerrard 7

 

Hell, the likes of Wayne Rooney 13; Frank Lampard 9; Peter Crouch 12 have dived more than Stevie G this season. And he is not even Liverpool's biggest diver (Torres 10).

 

OI, lads, lads, (I'm talking to YOU Rich, Craig, Rooney..) this seems to be becoming a bit too much like a sporting debate between the three of you...... :lol: Steven Gerrard/Britney Spears/Jacko... Not seeing the connection here..... Unless you guys know summat the tabloids dont..... :P

 

but like as in jackos case....and in fact nearly all other pop puppets, just how much input did they actually have on song composition? in many cases all they did was tweek it here and there thus claiming 'composer rights' when in reality they did fcuk all. tbh i simply dont believe these artists had anything much more then that to do with any composition... her, jacko, saturdays, rachel stevens etc etc

 

Yep, I'd say that was prob spot on... I think it pretty ridiculous that people are trying to claim that Britney is some sort of singer/songwriter a la Amy Winehouse, Tori Amos, Kate Bush or summat..... Well, she's neither really seeing as how the bitch don't even sing :lol: And I really, really dont think it's anything like relevant to say "oh, she's gone through these problems, her confidence is at rock bottom...."... Well, sorry, but she sure seems to be "confident" enough to dress up like a tuppeny whore and wiggle her arse, but somehow isn't confident enough to sing?????? :lol: :lol: :lol: Please....

 

And, sorry, but I repeat to those folks - just how were her "troubles" worse than having breast cancer....? Why is it that Kylie had the respect for her fans to come back and play for them (pretty sure that having cancer and almost dying is gonna dent your confidence somewhat..), and Brit doesn't......? These are fundamental questions that none of her staunch defenders have even attempted to address.....

I think the whole idea of going to see an artist 'live' is to hear them sing 'live' too. I went to see Britney Spears last Sunday at the 02 Arena, I didn't but the tickets my friend did and wanted someone to go with her. She didn't sing live. It really annoyed me for several reasons; if she can't live, who is singing on her CDs? There was no connection between her and the audience. She paid £50 for a ticket to see a woman with blonde hair strut about a stage, lip-syncing. It didn't bother my friend, she is a HUGE fan and in her eyes she can do no wrong, but if I paid £50 for a ticket and driven for 6hrs I would be mightly pissed off and surely by claiming it's 'live' they are miselling the tickets? I mean she was a-live but certainly no live singing!

 

(On the plus side it was a great spectacle, the circus act were amazing and the show itself was good, just the lack of singing from a recording artist annoyed me!)

 

Yeah, pretty simple equation innit - Live Show = Live singing..... Pretty common sense and should be taken for granted that the singer's gonna actually SING..... I'm sure the circus acts are all great and actually do their thing really well (unlike Britney), but they'e the support acts, not the real reason why people are paying the big bucks for the show..... Otherwise, you could just go to any old "Big Top" circus and see that sort of thing....

When I go to a live concert I want the singing to be live, but I don't see the point in getting worked up about other people being "conned" because they go to see Britney and she is miming half of it. I don't think anyone is being conned, and if they enjoyed themselves, they weren't short changed.

 

Personally, I'd prefer to watch someone producing a good live vocal than watch them dancing around with a weak or mimed vocal, but if other people prefer dancing, that's their business. If other people would rather see someone singing, but not dancing, that's their business too.

 

I think it's a bit unfair to single out Britney, because I'm pretty sure Girls Aloud were miming on their last tour (not the most recent one) for a portion of it. They got away with it because most of their show was live and also being a group it's much easier to mix in pre-recorded backing vocals with the live ones and it is less obvious. A lot of people think that Kylie spends a lot of time miming to pre-recorded vocals too.

 

Pink is a good example of someone who sings live and puts on a great show with a lot of movement, but one time I saw her she was horribly off key for some of it, especially towards the beginning of the evening. I don't think she had done a proper warm-up beforehand and that annoyed me. My friends said something similar of Robbie Williams, and then I read that he hadn't been turning up for all of his tour rehearsals.

 

If I'm paying money to see someone in concert I want to be singing live, but I also want to know that they've put the effort into the rehearsals and taking the time to do the required soundchecks and warm-ups. I also want them to be on stage for a decent length of time and unless it's made clear, I want them to sing their big hits and not just the new album. I also want them to look like they want to be there and to be enjoying themselves and to generally engage with the audience. Some excellent live singers struggle to do the latter, but it is those elements that make it worth travelling to see someone in concert rather than listening to a polished vocal on CD.

When I go to a live concert I want the singing to be live, but I don't see the point in getting worked up about other people being "conned" because they go to see Britney and she is miming half of it. I don't think anyone is being conned, and if they enjoyed themselves, they weren't short changed.

 

Personally, I'd prefer to watch someone producing a good live vocal than watch them dancing around with a weak or mimed vocal, but if other people prefer dancing, that's their business. If other people would rather see someone singing, but not dancing, that's their business too.

 

I think it's a bit unfair to single out Britney, because I'm pretty sure Girls Aloud were miming on their last tour (not the most recent one) for a portion of it. They got away with it because most of their show was live and also being a group it's much easier to mix in pre-recorded backing vocals with the live ones and it is less obvious. A lot of people think that Kylie spends a lot of time miming to pre-recorded vocals too.

 

Pink is a good example of someone who sings live and puts on a great show with a lot of movement, but one time I saw her she was horribly off key for some of it, especially towards the beginning of the evening. I don't think she had done a proper warm-up beforehand and that annoyed me. My friends said something similar of Robbie Williams, and then I read that he hadn't been turning up for all of his tour rehearsals.

 

If I'm paying money to see someone in concert I want to be singing live, but I also want to know that they've put the effort into the rehearsals and taking the time to do the required soundchecks and warm-ups. I also want them to be on stage for a decent length of time and unless it's made clear, I want them to sing their big hits and not just the new album. I also want them to look like they want to be there and to be enjoying themselves and to generally engage with the audience. Some excellent live singers struggle to do the latter, but it is those elements that make it worth travelling to see someone in concert rather than listening to a polished vocal on CD.

 

Not doing it now though are they....? So, even if they did at one point, the point is rather moot.... GA obviously learned that dishonesty was not the best policy and have gone out and done it 100% live these days... As do Sugababes, P!nk, Lady Ga Ga, etc..... The first two or three songs of an evening are always gonna be slightly off as the act is settling down, so, you unfortunately just have to maybe write those off, that's the nature of LIVE gigging, and frankly I wouldn't be without it, because when the act gets their game and more settled, they really start to fly.... Ups and downs are more fun than a flatline..... If you just mime everything or use too much playback, how can you be sponteneous or be actually performing....? I've seen singers have the odd CRAFT moments (ie, Cant Remember A fukkin' Thing) on stage, and fluff some of the lyrics, but, again, that just shows that they're human and they really ARE up their doing it and it can be rather funny.... Anyway, the crowd usually fills in for the bits they mess up....

 

There's no excuse for not doing the groundwork (rehearsals, sound-checks, etc....), that shows a lack of professionalism if you dont spend time to get things right....

When I go to a live concert I want the singing to be live, but I don't see the point in getting worked up about other people being "conned" because they go to see Britney and she is miming half of it. I don't think anyone is being conned, and if they enjoyed themselves, they weren't short changed.

 

Of course it's a con though Nosey.... I mean, come on, people are seriously stretching to find justifications for this event... They go on about the "spectacle", the "circus acts", etc... All well and good, but you can get circus acts at about a hundred other Big Top shows, that's not the reason for buying the ticket.... One would think that the reason why you would buy a ticket to see "The Circus, Starring Britney Spears" would be to see HER perform and not necessarily the Circus supporting acts.......

 

It's all a bit "Emperor's New Clothes" if you ask me, essentially, you can talk about the "spectacle" and all the trimmings all you want, but at the end of the day, and you strip all that ephemera away, you're left with nothing of the reason you bought the ticket for.... Just as the Emperor is exposed as being naked in Hans Christian Anderson's tale, so Britney is exposed as being a sham and fake....

 

GA's tour dvds are always partially overdubbed with studio vocals so I wouldn't particularly say they've 'learned that honest is the best policy' :heehee:

GA's tour dvds are always partially overdubbed with studio vocals so I wouldn't particularly say they've 'learned that honest is the best policy' :heehee:

 

Is that only the DVD though.....? Not the actual show itself....? :unsure:

 

I meant honesty in the sense of the actual live tours, Tour DVDs are a different subject.... Anyway, dont most Tour DVDs kind of "polish" things in the edit suite....?

Why on earth should they? I think it's appalling. I don't know if most do because I've not seen many but the few I have seen - Gwen Stefani's LAMB 2005 tour, Nelly Furtado's Loose in 2007 - certainly weren't vocally perfect and were all the better for it. You're paying to recreate the concert experience at home in your living room, not to listen to a CD with additional moving imagery.

She paid £50 for a ticket to see a woman with blonde hair strut about a stage, lip-syncing. It didn't bother my friend, she is a HUGE fan and in her eyes she can do no wrong,

 

..... and therein lies the problem with 'fans' .... people who blindly worship their idol regardless.. it baffles me why. why worship a flawed fake? jacko fans are the worse...

in fact nearly all other pop puppets, just how much input did they actually have on song composition? in many cases all they did was tweek it here and there thus claiming 'composer rights' when in reality they did fcuk all. tbh i simply dont believe these artists had anything much more then that to do with any composition... her, jacko, saturdays, rachel stevens etc etc

 

She wrote and co-composed Everytime, Mona Lisa, and Someday (I Will Understand). Was said so in a Dateline interview and the co-producer Guy Sigsworth backed up that she did as well. I'm sure you all have heard Everytime...

 

Someday (I Will Understand) Which is a beautiful song she wrote when she was pregnant:

 

 

Demo version of Mona Lisa with unedited vocals:

 

 

 

I'm sure your right about alot of them though. I think Britney has more talent but she isn't being able to use it all when it comes to her music, no one can deny that her record label has a tight hold on what she does musically right now. Blackout and In The Zone are the only albums where she had say so on $h!t. She co wrote 6 songs on In The Zone and was the executive producer over Blackout. When it comes to Circus, basically nothing besides co-writing 2 songs.

Edited June 13, 200916 yr by Tyler

too many people are getting high on hyperbole, the hysteric x factor audiences, the britains got talent audiences, all this screaming cheering hysteria... and for what? a winning artist who after their 5 minutes of fame is more likely then not forgotten, as the baying mad crowd has moved on to its next temporal, ephemeral, fix of euphoria.

 

its no woder then that when a popular artist such as britney puts on a 'show' like this that she can get away with it, the british public are bonkers, and its getting worse...

..... and therein lies the problem with 'fans' .... people who blindly worship their idol regardless.. it baffles me why. why worship a flawed fake? jacko fans are the worse...

This isn't a problem with fans though Rob - it's a problem with you. You or I may not understand how you could enjoy a concert where the singer mimes but the fact is they do, and therefore there is no problem at all on their part. Only you (and Grimly) have the issue here. You're trying to tell fans that they can't enjoy something because you wouldn't, when you know full well we aren't all the same.

She wrote and co-composed Everytime, Mona Lisa, and Someday (I Will Understand). Was said so in a Dateline interview and the co-producer Guy Sigsworth backed up that she did as well. I'm sure you all have heard Everytime...

 

Someday (I Will Understand) Which is a beautiful song she wrote when she was pregnant:

 

 

Demo version of Mona Lisa with unedited vocals:

 

I'm sure your right about alot of them though. I think Britney has more talent but she isn't being able to use it all when it comes to her music, no one can deny that her record label has a tight hold on what she does musically right now. Blackout and In The Zone are the only albums where she had say so on $h!t. She co wrote 6 songs on In The Zone and was the executive producer over Blackout. When it comes to Circus, basically nothing besides co-writing 2 songs.

 

but the truth about this is that we will never know the truth... after all, if shes such a brasen faker how tf can we trust what shes telling us?...

This isn't a problem with fans though Rob - it's a problem with you. You or I may not understand how you could enjoy a concert where the singer mimes but the fact is they do, and therefore there is no problem at all on their part. Only you (and Grimly) have the issue here. You're trying to tell fans that they can't enjoy something because you wouldn't, when you know full well we aren't all the same.

 

how can it be my problem?... im not the one being conned out of money!

 

the problem is that fakery is being accepted by 'fans'.. yes it IS their prerogotive to accept what they want, the point is that they shouldnt, in that way they might get the real deal off their idols who are worthy of such praise...

 

dont let it become a virtual world....