Posted June 14, 200916 yr 83. Joy Division http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drp100/p127/p12761h8061.jpg The band that became New Order after the suicide of their lead singer/lyricist Ian Curtis, were the first post punk band to embrace European mood music that became a template for 1980s alternative music. ALL MUSIC GUIDE BIOGRAPHY Key Studio Albums: Unknown Pleasures (1979) & Closer (1980) http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov75/drf600/f614/f61420ywknd.jpghttp://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov75/drj700/j766/j76665t4lmw.jpg Key Compiliation: The Best Of (2008) http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov75/drk300/k341/k34188ywknd.jpg Career Defining Song: Love Will Tear Us Apart (1980 UK#13, 1981 UK#19, 1998 UK#19)
June 14, 200916 yr Author Some Other Key Songs: Shadowplay (1978) Transmission (1979) She's Lost Control (1979) Atmosphere (1980, 1988 UK#34) Were any of you fans of this hugely influential band on the indie/alternative genre of music or did you prefer New Order?
June 14, 200916 yr Yes I was a fan of them and I like New Order as well. Love will tear us apart is still one of the best songs of all time, other favourites include Transmission and She's lost control. I'm sure if he didn't have his problems they would have been huge. In saying that, his dance moves weren't the best.
June 18, 200916 yr Key compilation is Substance though - that Best of was pretty pointless. What I find quite funny is that we heard precious little of Joy Division throughout the 90's - save for a short 15th anniversary hoo-ha and now you can't move for a special on them in the music press. First time I heard Joy Division was during a "Rock Box Profile" of Factory Records on ITV about 18 years ago and they showed a clip of the performance of Transmission from So It Goes - that was enough for me really. Got hugely into them during music's wilderness years at the end of the 90's when I took the opportunity of their being eff-all decent being released to track down older albums by the likes of Joy Div, The Clash, JAMC and The Banshees.
June 18, 200916 yr Author Key compilation is Substance though - that Best of was pretty pointless. What I find quite funny is that we heard precious little of Joy Division throughout the 90's - save for a short 15th anniversary hoo-ha and now you can't move for a special on them in the music press. First time I heard Joy Division was during a "Rock Box Profile" of Factory Records on ITV about 18 years ago and they showed a clip of the performance of Transmission from So It Goes - that was enough for me really. Got hugely into them during music's wilderness years at the end of the 90's when I took the opportunity of their being eff-all decent being released to track down older albums by the likes of Joy Div, The Clash, JAMC and The Banshees. The three Joy Division albums I own are Unknown Pleasures, Closer & Substance. But the whole point of including The Best Of as the "Key Compilation" is that it is more comprehensive (as it continues the second CD of BBC recordings and interview) for a one stop casual music fan ahead of the earlier Substance which works as a perfect compliment to their two stunningly brilliant studio albums.
June 19, 200916 yr Joy Division released some great music but... like all stars who die young.... Ian Curtis is held in stupidly high reverance. I think even if he'd have lived, we still would've had New Order - Joy Division would never, ever have stayed together. And whilst their singles are pretty special - the albums are nigh-on unlistenable. Sombre, plodding, aimless and songless on the whole.... Joy Division are a band people like to namedrop but... like the Velvet Underground.... very few actually listen to.
June 19, 200916 yr .... Joy Division are a band people like to namedrop but... like the Velvet Underground.... very few actually listen to. oh well said! fully agree russ, they are both bands highly referanced by posers... and to my mind i dont think either actually lived up to their reverance.
June 19, 200916 yr And whilst their singles are pretty special - the albums are nigh-on unlistenable. Sombre, plodding, aimless and songless on the whole.... Joy Division are a band people like to namedrop but... like the Velvet Underground.... very few actually listen to. Hmm, sounds like you're talking about the second half of 'Closer' - nothing sombre or plodding about the likes of 'Disorder', 'She's Lost Control' or 'Isolation' and nothing aimless or songless at all. I listen to them all the time.
June 19, 200916 yr oh well said! fully agree russ, they are both bands highly referanced by posers... and to my mind i dont think either actually lived up to their reverance. Utter tosh I have listened to both bands loads over the years and I know a lot of people who have. And both bands' influence and the effect they have both had on the course of rock has been immeasurable (particularly in the case of VU). The VU would never have to have recorded anything after VU & Nico and they would have justified their existance. Then you have White Light/White Heat and their third album. Should Joy Division's influence have begun and ended with LWTUA then that would have been enough. But their music is a wondrous thing. So many good songs. New Dawn Fades, A Means To An End, Isolation, Atmosphere, Transmission. All brilliant songs that withstand listen after listen. I just looked on Last Fm to see how many listeners both bands had. VU had 870,000 "posers" who listened to them, JD - 790,000 "posers" and Lady Gaga 550,000 odd. Don't think there's much name dropping going on there, just listening. Edited June 19, 200916 yr by grebo69
June 19, 200916 yr I just think as an adult, listening to Joy Division now... hmm... they're a bit ridiculous. I liked them when I was an angsty teen and when it was the 'in' thing to drop their name... but... as with the Sisters of Mercy - their music invokes a bit of an embarrassed smile now as opposed to devotion. It's just a crying shame New Order didn't all hang themselves after Technique, really.....
June 19, 200916 yr Well each to their own I suppose. I certainly don't feel embarrassed listening to either Joy Division or The Sisters.
June 20, 200916 yr Well each to their own I suppose. I certainly don't feel embarrassed listening to either Joy Division or The Sisters. and so you shouldnt... that aint what was said though. no one called ALL joy division fans 'posers', the point russ originally made was that posers, them who like to think they are cool but unltimately arnt, use acts like jd to namedrop in order to sound cool. as for their ultimate influence, i reckon it depends which perspective you look at it from. certainly in the indie scene they were ...but... theres more to music then indie! :)
June 20, 200916 yr Of course there's more than indie but I think The Velvets had much more influence than Joy Division and in areas more than just the indie scene. And Russ said that very few people actually listen to either of them hence my post. I do find the canonisation of Ian Curtis a bit rediculous but then I think the same thing about Kurt Cobain. Thery were both musicians who happened to produce some great music and also happened to be suffering from mental instability. Edited June 20, 200916 yr by grebo69
June 20, 200916 yr Author oh well said! fully agree russ, they are both bands highly referanced by posers... and to my mind i dont think either actually lived up to their reverance. What utter rot! Joy Division's debut album is a stunning piece of art, especially when you consider when it was recorded and its influence on popular music since. Whilst admittedly the second half/side of Closer is an inferior attempt at recapturing David Bowie's second half/side of Low, but the rest of the album is great. Either way it is more listenable than that 21st Century Joy Division tribute act The Editors; and vastly superior to any studio album made by New Order. As for the Velvet Underground ..... quite frankly anyone who does not think 1967's Velvet Underground & Nico and their third album 1969's Velvet Underground are not bona fide album classics needs their ears testing IMHO.
June 20, 200916 yr Well said. I must be alone in liking Closer better! I think it is because I heard that first and listened to it endlessly before I got Unknown Pleasures.
June 21, 200916 yr What utter rot! Joy Division's debut album is a stunning piece of art, especially when you consider when it was recorded and its influence on popular music since. Whilst admittedly the second half/side of Closer is an inferior attempt at recapturing David Bowie's second half/side of Low, but the rest of the album is great. Either way it is more listenable than that 21st Century Joy Division tribute act The Editors; and vastly superior to any studio album made by New Order. As for the Velvet Underground ..... quite frankly anyone who does not think 1967's Velvet Underground & Nico and their third album 1969's Velvet Underground are not bona fide album classics needs their ears testing IMHO. i was refering to jd, not vu. i know they were very influencial on the music scene, i was there! :lol: im just disputing somewhat the degree of influence they have had. if the current trend for guitar pop (ill not call it 'indie) hadnt happened then jd would not be so prominant now. i do believe there is alot of snobbery associated with jd, they are namedropped by poseurs, and are being refered too by many of todays kids as some sort of 'beatle-esque' pop gods. i think that degree of reverance is ott and is best saved for the smiths, who id strongly suggest are better and more deserving.
June 25, 200916 yr i do believe there is alot of snobbery associated with jd, they are namedropped by poseurs, and are being refered too by many of todays kids as some sort of 'beatle-esque' pop gods. i think that degree of reverance is ott and is best saved for the smiths, who id strongly suggest are better and more deserving. If by these "poseurs", you mean absolute rot like the Emos who regularly namedrop the likes of not only Ian Curtis, but Robert Smith, Pete Murphy and Morrissey, then I'm totally with you..... I absolutely pished myself laughing when one of these arsewits (some prick from Fall Out Boy I think it was...) said in some interview about how they were "like totally influenced by the cool guitar dude from the Smiths".... Yeah, so clearly fukkin' influenced as to not to be able to even NAME Johnny Marr, eh.....? <_< I definitely get annoyed with bands such as White Lies who are clearly just ripping off a vague "sense" of JD or Bauhaus but clearly have no understanding of the music or where it comes from..... Editors did an okay first album, but an incredibly dull and disappointing second one which sounded more like they were trying to ape Coldplay, when they were doing just fine by being themselves, talk about a wrong turn.... Out of all the bands nowadays who say they're influenced by the likes of JD, The Smiths, Bauhaus, The Cure, VU, etc, the only ones that I actually buy it from are Interpol and The Horrors.... Interpol's first album (Turn on the Bright Lights) in particular is absolutely STUNNING, they got it so right with that one, subsequent albums dont quite match up to the debut, but still have moments of stunning darkness and beauty... The Horrors, this year have simply done the best British Alternative/Indie Rock album in ages, and I'm not gonna go back on that, every time I listen to "Primary Colours" I'm just utterly gobsmacked by it, they got everything on that album perfect; and frankly, the likes of Editors, Coldplay and White Lies can just split up, because they will NEVER make an album as good as "Primary Colours" even if they tried for a hundred years..... Coldplay couldn't even do a decent album with Brian Eno, one of the greatest producers of all time..... :lol: :lol:
June 25, 200916 yr ANYWAY..... Getting onto the topic.... Joy Division were probably THE most influential UK act of the last 30 years... Period..... And, "Unknown Pleasures" is almost certainly an album I can listen to time and time again, everything about it is perfect..... And, Russ, to simply dismiss JD as being "teen angst" is really quite ridiculous..... What, exactly, is wrong with me as a 37 year old adult listening to Joy Division....? Should I just now be "too cool" to admit I like them, should I deny myself their music out of some misguided notion that I must somehow "grow out" of listening to them....? That's surely just a lame an attitude as you say the name-dropping Poseurs have, and I'm buggered if I'm gonna do it..... The fact that JD are now suddenly "hip and trendy" and "in" certainly aint MY problem, I'm not gonna stop listening to one of my favourite bands of all time just because some arm-cutting, 14-year old Emo poseur who blatantly doesn't understand the music, and is more in love with Ian Curtis's suicide than with the music itself, namedrops them in his/her blog, any more than I would stop listening to Nirvana because of all the other little emo pricks out there who claim to "understand Kurt's pain".... <_<
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