i think theres a habit of todays fans having a skewed view of what the past was REALLY like. by 1990 he had only had 3 #1's out of 34 releases. hardly 'legendary' status is it.

 

Wow :lol: You are just embaressing yourself now Rob. First you doubt he wrote his songs, then you doubt his input into them and now you are questioning his commercial success? :lol: Firstly did'nt you say this this thread that sales mean nothing? If that is that case then what has it to do with 'legendary status'? And to even try and make out the Jackon's success was not legendary is without a shadow of a doubt the most ridiculous thing said in this thread so far (apart from the notion he faked his own death obviously). Firstly the fact that man has the biggest selling album in music history alone gives him 'legendary status'. The fact that two of his others albums sold over 30m globally, with two others selling over 20m. The fact that he has sold an estimated 750 million records (second to only The Beatles and Elvis). Or are you one of these people who only care about UK success? If so, then why is he the fifth highest selling singles artist in UK music history? Or the third best selling albums artist in UK history? Or why has he won more awards than any other artist? Sold more concert tickets etc etc etc and was the biggest global artists of all time. The list of his achievments in endless and in terms of legendary status based on success, there is no other solo artist on a global scale who was more successful. But of course if #1 singles in the UK are all that matter then by your logic, Westlife with their 14 or 15 #1's in the UK gives them a more legendary status. :lol:

 

 

 

........ anyway, the 'king of pop'?... who fcukin says so? this is just 1 more bit of hype surrounding him that i detest. ok, he did some good songs, he sold loads of units, but so have many others who have also been far more influencial and creative.

 

Well it's obvious why he is called the King Of Pop. It's because of his success. What other solo pop star was more successful in their career, in terms of commercial, critical and touring success?

 

Mind you, he was the 'self-proclaimed' "king of pop"......and, the rabid fans/media bought into it.....I, for one wouldn't call him the 'king of pop', let alone the king of his own domain, especially with all those leeches feeding his ego.....

 

With that said, I do like some of his music from the 'Off The Wall' through 'Bad' era, but, not enough for me to want to gush all over him and call him the 'king of pop'....

MJ hes gone, enjoy the music while its still about and move on, theres nothing to see here.

i like you, youre ok, you are inoffensive in your questioning.

 

actually what i was suggesting that he has 'un negrified' himself by surgery, its too much of a co-incidence that his skin too miraculously also 'de - negrified' at the same time.

 

of course i cant prove anything, blotches on the body?... dunno, nope i cant explain that away without more info. im not saying he definately bleached his skin, i just reckon he did, but this is just 1 more obscured topic surrounding this very shady individual...

Yeah I understand what you mean. To be honest (from my point of view), I don't think he liked/or wanted to be black. Maybe it was just a self-confidence thing, that he wanted to be "colourless" or have a (what he may think as) a normal mans nose (I hate putting things like that that way, but I think that's what he may of wanted).

 

I think though the colour of his skin is just one big coincidence, oddly enough. :lol: Tbh though, I guess we will never know (or maybe we will, now that he's passed on I reckon a lot of people are willing to speak about him..)

Yeah I understand what you mean. To be honest (from my point of view), I don't think he liked/or wanted to be black. Maybe it was just a self-confidence thing, that he wanted to be "colourless" or have a (what he may think as) a normal mans nose (I hate putting things like that that way, but I think that's what he may of wanted).

 

I think though the colour of his skin is just one big coincidence, oddly enough. :lol: Tbh though, I guess we will never know (or maybe we will, now that he's passed on I reckon a lot of people are willing to speak about him..)

 

I don't know how much truth there is in it ... but from what I've read (ha ha!) it seems he wanted to change his looks so that he would look as little like his father as possible. And as his father seems to be such an obnoxious, odious git ... who can blame the poor soul.

 

As for those people commenting on why the constant need for surgery - i.e. didn't he ever look in the mirror to see how painful he was looking ... then I draw a comparison with those people suffering from anorexia. Those poor people look in the mirror each day and see a fat person ... when all around them can see a skeleton. To me, it seemed that Jackson suffered from a dreadful case of lack of self-esteem. Although I don't think he was the genius people claim him to be ... the man and his music definitely has a place in history and he shouldn't be denied that.

 

Norma

I don't know how much truth there is in it ... but from what I've read (ha ha!) it seems he wanted to change his looks so that he would look as little like his father as possible. And as his father seems to be such an obnoxious, odious git ... who can blame the poor soul.

 

Again, that's just an excuse for his totally bizarro behaviour Norma... He hated his entire racial make-up because of his FATHER??? Oh come on.... That's a bit like me having a hate for an entire race just because someone from a particular race mugs me or whatever..... I'm sure Joe beat up Tito, Jermaine, etc, you dont them altering their genetic make-up do you...? Besides, if he wanted to look as little like his father as possible, why not have a sex change....? Really take it to the logical extreme and become Michelle Jackson....

 

And even if this is so, how can he still write a lyric saying "It dont matter if you're black or white"... It's pretty clear this actually did matter to him..... How can someone going through all this surgery to look a certain way, then proclaim in a song that it doesn't matter what you look like....?

Mind you, he was the 'self-proclaimed' "king of pop"......and, the rabid fans/media bought into it.....I, for one wouldn't call him the 'king of pop', let alone the king of his own domain, especially with all those leeches feeding his ego.....

 

With that said, I do like some of his music from the 'Off The Wall' through 'Bad' era, but, not enough for me to want to gush all over him and call him the 'king of pop'....

 

Exactly.. Pop Culture existed before Michael Jackson, he didn't invent it... Jackson himself pretty much acknowledged that the greatest Pop composers were Lennon and McCartney anyway...... As for black music/culture, like I said before, I credit the likes of Stevie Wonder and Bob Marley with bringing those things to public consciousness far more.....

Well we know somebody's body is lying on a mortuary slab. By all accounts a bald, emaciated, 5'9", 8 stone 10 ounce, riddled with needle-marks and with a stomach full of pills. I do question who the f*ck was on that video then - because if the Coronor's assessment is correct - it is highly unlikely it was Michael Jackson.

 

Back to reality - yes he is most certainly dead ... but loads of people involved in this are lying.

 

Norma

 

The right sort of drugs can make you do almost anything tbh Norma, you obviously never went to any Raves in the early 90s :lol: ... Look at amphetamines - they push the body's capabilities beyond natural limits, why do you think so many clubbers take speed in order to party all night, which is something that normally wouldn't be able to be done straight....? They also act as an appetite suppresant.... Have you seen what your average "speed freak" looks like - thin, emaciated.....

 

People on speed are capable of staying awake for up to 48 hrs.... Ecstacy is another one, as is Ketamine.... We simply dont know what type and how many drugs Jackson was actually taking, I think it more than probable that despite his actual physical state, Jackson high on drugs could be capable of doing what is shown on the video...

 

Another example of the hypocrisy of Jackson's death...

 

Yesterday, I was wandering around HMV in Piccadilly, I saw a girl selling Jacko Posters just outside the shop, and near the Jacko "shrine".. Some dickwad in an HMV shirt then goes up to the girl selling the posters and says "People like you disgust me, making money off of Michaeal's name".... I couldn't quite believe what I was hearing frankly, so I went up to the guy and said - "Yeah, cos HMV are REALLY taking the moral high ground aren't they....? I take it you're NOT selling Jacko's albums, t-shirts, DVDs and posters then"...... "Oh, but that's different..."... "Fukk off mate, no it isn't... You lot are just making money off this same as her, dont make out like you're any better...."....

 

Nah, it's more like, she's selling "bootleg" stuff, and they dont want her around cutting into their profit margins...... <_< It just really cut me up that this clown was actually trying to use some kind of moral argument..... :lol:

 

 

Wow :lol: You are just embaressing yourself now Rob. First you doubt he wrote his songs, then you doubt his input into them and now you are questioning his commercial success? :lol: Firstly did'nt you say this this thread that sales mean nothing? If that is that case then what has it to do with 'legendary status'? And to even try and make out the Jackon's success was not legendary is without a shadow of a doubt the most ridiculous thing said in this thread so far (apart from the notion he faked his own death obviously). Firstly the fact that man has the biggest selling album in music history alone gives him 'legendary status'. The fact that two of his others albums sold over 30m globally, with two others selling over 20m. The fact that he has sold an estimated 750 million records (second to only The Beatles and Elvis). Or are you one of these people who only care about UK success? If so, then why is he the fifth highest selling singles artist in UK music history? Or the third best selling albums artist in UK history? Or why has he won more awards than any other artist? Sold more concert tickets etc etc etc and was the biggest global artists of all time. The list of his achievments in endless and in terms of legendary status based on success, there is no other solo artist on a global scale who was more successful. But of course if #1 singles in the UK are all that matter then by your logic, Westlife with their 14 or 15 #1's in the UK gives them a more legendary status. :lol:

Well it's obvious why he is called the King Of Pop. It's because of his success. What other solo pop star was more successful in their career, in terms of commercial, critical and touring success?

 

firstly, i was pointing out that in commercial terms jackos uk chart runs are actually pretty average for a 'big' star, and plenty have done more. jackos trump card was 'thriller', but take that out of the equasion and everything else is pretty average again for a 'big' star.

 

yep in many ways im uk-centric, why not? its where i live! if you are talking global sales then many other artists have also globally done well.

 

but i would NEVER refer to ANYBODY , no matter how great they are/were as a 'legend', 'legends' by definition dont actually exist! :lol: (which thinking on, probabally sums up the jacko illusion pretty well :lol: ).

 

so no, he is not a legend, he is not a 'genius', he is not 'the king of pop', he was a rather mixed up, pathetic, individual with a dubious sexual history and behaved in a totally unacceptable manner...

 

 

 

and oh yes, a few years ago he did some quite good pop songs.

 

thats it.

 

Mind you, he was the 'self-proclaimed' "king of pop"......and, the rabid fans/media bought into it.....I, for one wouldn't call him the 'king of pop', let alone the king of his own domain, especially with all those leeches feeding his ego.....

 

With that said, I do like some of his music from the 'Off The Wall' through 'Bad' era, but, not enough for me to want to gush all over him and call him the 'king of pop'....

 

and that also answers my reply to scotty.... well said!

 

Exactly.. Pop Culture existed before Michael Jackson, he didn't invent it... Jackson himself pretty much acknowledged that the greatest Pop composers were Lennon and McCartney anyway...... As for black music/culture, like I said before, I credit the likes of Stevie Wonder and Bob Marley with bringing those things to public consciousness far more.....

 

yep, absolutely scott :).

^ Hey Rob, hope you and Clare had a good time in Gay Paree..... :lol:

 

Oh, check out Richard's massive rant in the Jacko thread in the Lounge.....

^ Hey Rob, hope you and Clare had a good time in Gay Paree..... :lol:

 

Oh, check out Richard's massive rant in the Jacko thread in the Lounge.....

 

kin ell...thats why they call it 'gay paree'...lol.. theres loads of gay guys everywhere! :lol:

 

yep thanks scott, it was highly enjoyable and an eye opener, smashing city jam packed full of culture, and hardly a jacko referance anywhere :lol:

 

yeah ive seen it... :lol: i see he still dodges the unsavoury bits, craigs list for eg, proven facts that demonstrate jacko was all but an unconvicted p****.... actions that coming from anyone else would have them kicked into oblivion, but its jacko...so its ok innit <_<

hey scott...d'you like my new display name? :lol: got fed up of all the fcukin stoopid arseholes on here bumming jacko so i thought id join in their idiotic game :rofl:

firstly, i was pointing out that in commercial terms jackos uk chart runs are actually pretty average for a 'big' star, and plenty have done more. jackos trump card was 'thriller', but take that out of the equasion and everything else is pretty average again for a 'big' star.

 

yep in many ways im uk-centric, why not? its where i live! if you are talking global sales then many other artists have also globally done well.

 

but i would NEVER refer to ANYBODY , no matter how great they are/were as a 'legend', 'legends' by definition dont actually exist! :lol: (which thinking on, probabally sums up the jacko illusion pretty well :lol: ).

 

he is not 'the king of pop'

 

Oh really? Well considering Bad outsold Thriller in the UK by quite a bit, then to say it is average compared to Thriller in terms of sales is simply ludicrous. And yes, I am talking about global sales, because he, unlike the majority of pop stars was truly global. He was the biggest global music star of all time - and for that reason - it is glaringly obvious as to why he is called the King Of Pop - it is because no other male pop star has been more successful. This whole argument is so tiresome at this stage. This is my last post on the matter because frankly I am getting sick of repeating facts that should be pretty obvious with regard to his success.

 

 

If I'm being honest, sale figures are irrelevant, it doesn't make him a "genius". But what it does do, is highlight the fact of how popular he is/was, and to why there is such mass mourning still after his death. [For the record, I don't think he is a genius, it's not like he has found a cure for cancer- cause that WOULD make someone a genius :lol:. He was just the best at what he did].

Oh really? Well considering Bad outsold Thriller in the UK by quite a bit, then to say it is average compared to Thriller in terms of sales is simply ludicrous. And yes, I am talking about global sales, because he, unlike the majority of pop stars was truly global. He was the biggest global music star of all time - and for that reason - it is glaringly obvious as to why he is called the King Of Pop - it is because no other male pop star has been more successful. This whole argument is so tiresome at this stage. This is my last post on the matter because frankly I am getting sick of repeating facts that should be pretty obvious with regard to his success.

 

The whole "King of Pop" thing is entirely subjective though Scotty..... It makes for a great marketing strategy though, absolutely.... And shifting units should never, ever be confused with the quality of the music or the songwriting.... Sorry, but if you look at it soberly and with a bit of objectivity, and look at the music and the songwriting, then the title "King(s) of Pop" truly belongs to Lennon and McCartney..... Because, even Jackson himself called these guys his inspiration..... So, they are the 'daddies' of it all, end of..... And I say this even without being a totally rabid Beatles fan.....

 

hey scott...d'you like my new display name?

 

It's cool mate.... You should try and find a pic of Jarvis wiggling his arse though just to make it funnier....... :lol: :lol:

 

We're still going on about this guy? It's been nearly two weeks!

We're still going on about this guy? It's been nearly two weeks!

 

... totally relevant, like him or not, he was big and controversial.

Oh really? Well considering Bad outsold Thriller in the UK by quite a bit, then to say it is average compared to Thriller in terms of sales is simply ludicrous. And yes, I am talking about global sales, because he, unlike the majority of pop stars was truly global. He was the biggest global music star of all time - and for that reason - it is glaringly obvious as to why he is called the King Of Pop - it is because no other male pop star has been more successful. This whole argument is so tiresome at this stage. This is my last post on the matter because frankly I am getting sick of repeating facts that should be pretty obvious with regard to his success.

 

so hold on, talk globally OR uk, dont pick n chose which sales figures you want to prove a point. :)

 

his popularity has never been in doubt, but popularity doesnt equate to genius/king/whatever.

 

its not the facts that are in much doubt, just the resulting adulation attatched to jacko.. yes he shifted units, yes his music was quality pop, no he isnt a genius, king or legend, that is a tag his FANS put on him and it doesnt make it a fact.