Erm, where exactly did I suggest it was a fact he was a genius? You are the one expressing your opinion as if it is fact. I stated that the majority of critics, other artists in the business decribe him and one and have for many years prior to his death. There are countless reasons as to why he is desribed as being a genius. It is not just the fact that he soley penned (whether you believe it or not) some of the most critically acclaimed and successful pop songs of all time, it is him as a performer on stage. He came up with the dance routines and alot of the ideas for the live shows, which were widely considered as being up there as the best pop shows ever, especially in his prime. His talent to hold his audience in the palm of his hand was unrivaled, and his huge talent as a dancer was also not matched by many, especially in music. Even dance legends such as Michael Flatley have said that he was one of the best dancers to ever live. And there is his videos obviously which were groundbreaking. Had is credited to having a large involvment in coming up with the ideas for his video's. His voice was also one of the finest in pop, especially when he did ballads, his range was quite something. So it is not just for his songwriting talents that so many claim he was a genius, because he was so much more than mearly a songwriter.

 

And as you rightly point out, most Pop stars do not have a large input in their songs. Most have co-writing credits at best. Nearly every artist who is considered a genius songwriter are not from the pop genre in general - he is an exception and a big one at that. And again I will say what I have said many times at this stage, it is YOUR opinion that those artists wrote better songs, it is your opinion he was not a genius etc - huge volumes of people in the music business think he was. Opinions differ, and you not being a fan of his music and perfering others does not mean it is a fact. My opinion is your argument has very little foundation simply because the facts are there for all to see. It input has never been in doubt and you are the only one here doing so. I am getting tired of repeating myself at this stage with regard to the subject.There is no proof to dis-prove what are essentially facts.

 

And with regard to that video Josh posted, there is another video from a doc where he actually plays the music himself. It might have been from the unshown footage version he later released. I am too tired to start looking for it now. Will find it tomorrow.

 

As far as your point that we should not support his music because of his personal life. I don't accept that, because I am not defending him as a person. He did many things that were not right. Ive made my opinion on this clear before, I do not believe he sexually abused children, but the things he did do were not acceptable. I have grown up listening to his music so I am not going to stop just because he turned intro a weirdo. It would be a different matter if he had been found guilty, and the family in the 05 case were not caught up in countless lies.

 

On another note, it is pretty unbelievable how the reports are varrying with regard to his debts and assets etc. Nearly every news report/newspaper have completely different figures, yet they are all stating it as if they are confirmed figures :lol:

 

It was a case of a bit more than him simply turning into a "weirdo" though Scotty..... I mean, Marilyn Manson's a bit of a weirdo, but I wouldn't say that he was anywhere near the category of Jackson.... But 'weird', I can more-or-less handle..... ;) But you cannot deny that his "weirdness" seriously affected the quality of the music Post-Quincy though mate.... "Black or White", "Heal the World", "Earth Song", etc..... THAT Brits appearance... There's no way that "Dangerous" or "Invincible" are as highly regarded as his previous albums, so in that respect, the weirdness does adversely affect the music, and changes the overall tone of it, and not really for the better.... I mean, technically it might all be there in terms of the production, etc, but artistically, something's missing.... As far as Manson goes, I would argue the opposite, pulling back from the "strangeness" of Brian Warner's (MM's real name) alter-ego conversely led to the music suffering, although I can perhaps understand Brian Warner doing this because I think it may have actually turned him insane to go further down that road....

 

Kelly makes a good point about Madonna actually as well.... I really dont like this obsession she seems to have with adopting black kids.. And "by any means necessary" as well it would appear, even if it means bending or breaking a few international laws..... Yeah, another case of a Pop star who doesn't seem to think the rules apply to them..... That whole thing tends to leave a nasty taste in my mouth also.... Some commentators likened he actions to the Colonialists.... Not sure I'd quite go that far.... Yet..... But, there's no doubting it's pretty dodgy.....

 

it doesnt make him a 'genius', it makes him a successful composer... would he have been so successful without quincey jones?... no... so i dont accept the tag 'genius' at all. its all part of the hype that surrounds this product.

 

That's probably fair comment, esp, when you consider the creative nosedive post-Quincy.... Jackson was almost certainly a product, I mean, the amount of stuff that he endorsed, products he continually advertised, etc..... The guy became a commodity... Indeed, the term "genius" is totally over-used and abused generally by PR and Marketing men who want to sell their "product".... It's not sufficient for them just to "sell" a successful composer, or a successful Pop Star, nah, they have to dress it up in this term "genius" as a marketing tool, and people then begin to buy into the hype and actually believe it..... Jackson had a LOT of help in his career - his brothers, Motown, Quincy Jones, the high profile Film directors such as John Landis (who, let's not forget in 1980 directed and co-wrote The Blues Brothers with Dan Ackroyd, huge portions of which can almost certainly be seen as prototype "pop videos") who helped to revolutionize the Pop Video which led to the MTV generation.... A "genius" exists almost in isolation, it's the action of one particular individual... Jackson's success and place within Popular Culture is almost certainly a collaborative effort for the most part.....

 

So, yeah, a successful Pop Star, a successful composer, a successful Product.. Not really "genius" at all.....

i dont get why so many black people still adore him, after all he changed himself into a 'honky' :lol: i dont believe that whole skin disease thing at all.. its just another bizarre excuse made in his name... and that just the thing, excuses all the time... ok, i could swallow one, or two, but 20 years on and theres always an excuse and it simply too much to believe.

 

hence my cynicism.

 

especially when he is a huge marketing commodity .... he was an iconic figure? well so is ronald mcdonald! :lol:

 

nah, i think its very sad that some fans are so caught up in their idols that they forget to get on with their own lives.

i dont get why so many black people still adore him, after all he changed himself into a 'honky' :lol:

 

The first wave of East/West Coast rappers were absolutely scathing of Jackson back in the day though as I recall.... I still doubt that the likes of Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Ice Cube, Ice-T, Snoop or Dr Dre would really have that many nice things to say even now.... His PR people spun this whole "disease" thing and it actually became believed in a lot of quarters, which is probably why black acts of today are singing his praises.....

 

The first wave of East/West Coast rappers were absolutely scathing of Jackson back in the day though as I recall.... I still doubt that the likes of Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Ice Cube, Ice-T, Snoop or Dr Dre would really have that many nice things to say even now.... His PR people spun this whole "disease" thing and it actually became believed in a lot of quarters, which is probably why black acts of today are singing his praises.....

 

well i didnt believe it then, and i certainly dont believe it now. it was so sudden, i remember it well twas about 87 i think, one minute he was the guy in the 'thriller' vid, next he was this pale creature.

 

could he have caught the disease? possible, but this was at the time when he was transforming from a negroid to a caucasian, the co-incidence is far to great to believe!

well i didnt believe it then, and i certainly dont believe it now. it was so sudden, i remember it well twas about 87 i think, one minute he was the guy in the 'thriller' vid, next he was this pale creature.

 

could he have caught the disease?

 

There's a disease called sickle cell anaemia which can alter the pigmention of skin, but it's progression is severe and very pronounced, causing blotches and discolouration... It does NOT progress in the way that Jackson's supposed "disease" did.... And I believe that sickle cell anaemia is also hereditary....

 

There's a disease called sickle cell anaemia which can alter the pigmention of skin, but it's progression is severe and very pronounced, causing blotches and discolouration... It does NOT progress in the way that Jackson's supposed "disease" did.... And I believe that sickle cell anaemia is also hereditary....

 

yeah, that was the debate at the time, with it being dismissed as sickle cell anaemia because of its uniformity in jackos case.

 

if they LIED about that, what else have they LIED about?

..oh, its not sickle cell anaemia..

Have you seen the single/album charts this week....? Bloody hell.... It's like a Jacko invasion.....

 

What is it that activates in people's heads...? "oh, artist x is dead, must now go out and buy all their records". I mean, it's not like when an artist dies and all of a sudden their canvasses increase in value is it.....? The CDs wont all of a sudden be worth more in five years time, will they...? It's all a bit "Pavlow's Dog" really... Artist dies, album sales increase/dog hears bell, dog eats" :lol:

 

If people are buying his records with the thought that it'll help his kids, it probably wont.... Jacko had massive debts, which will be paid for by the album sales.....

of COURSE its my opinion...:lol: thats why i said it...

 

look.... i dont hate jackos music (70- c86) like i hate watertwats shyte... i fully accept that he is a good performer and had some good pop songs credited to his name.

 

on the basis that he has never come across in any interview as an intelligent musician out to create something new and groundbreaking, the bollox about his skin colour change, the miriad of excuses his management pull out the hat to try to prop up their failing money pot... and the fact he came out of motown, the first and biggest hit factory ever , i doubt his actual input into creating 'his' material. but even if he IS totally and fully responsible , it doesnt make him a 'genius', it makes him a successful composer... would he have been so successful without quincey jones?... no... so i dont accept the tag 'genius' at all. its all part of the hype that surrounds this product.

 

Finally you admit it is in your opinion :P I dont think you have once said 'imo' throughout this thread. You have been speaking as though what you are saying is fact. That is why I said it. Fine you don't accept he was a genius. Loads of people do. That is perfectly fine. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is claiming he had little input in his music where that has never been in dispute. And to answer your question, would he have been so successful without Quincy Jones? Probably not. They worked perfectly together as a team. He wrote the bulk of the hits and Quincy and Jackson produced the songs together. It was yet another hugely successful collaboration in pop music, just like Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, Elton John/Bernie Taupin etc. It is a known fact that most great songwriters finest hour is before the age of 30 and this was no different. It can certaintly be argued that in terms of the quality of the music, it went downhill after 'Bad', but in terms of success, as depressing as the fact might be - Earth Song is his biggest selling single ever in the UK - a song soley composed and produced by Jackson. He sold more albums in the 90's than most artists sell in there entire career, so it is not as if his success dissapeared after they parted ways.

 

 

The first wave of East/West Coast rappers were absolutely scathing of Jackson back in the day though as I recall.... I still doubt that the likes of Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Ice Cube, Ice-T, Snoop or Dr Dre would really have that many nice things to say even now.... His PR people spun this whole "disease" thing and it actually became believed in a lot of quarters, which is probably why black acts of today are singing his praises.....

 

 

Well no, in their tributes Ice T and Snoop both had nothing but praise as I recall. As I said in a previous post Ice T desribed him as being the greatest and Snoop said he was a huge inspiration on him. Im sure I also read Dr Dre has done a tribute song - so its obvious those in Hip-hop have alot of respect, and why should'nt they? In terms of musical impact it simply cannot be denied the impact he had. It should be glaringly obvious as to why he is still so repected among black artists. He broke down the barriers and paved the way by being not only the first black artist to be played on MTV, but he was the first to be played on many of the mainstreem radio stations accross America.

 

As far as the whole skin disease thing goes - I am not certain but wasnt it a case that it was claimed he had it, which gave patches of white, and he got surgury to make the rest of himself white. That was always what I understood to be the case. If it was claimed that his whole body turned white because of it then that is pretty ridiculous to say the least.

 

And yeah the charts is pretty unreal. Man In The Mirror is heading for #1 in the singles this week as well, and shops accross Europe and America have run out of cd's, so apparently Sony are frantically printing more to keep up with the demand. Aparrently his sales after his death is greater than either Elvis or Lennon, although obviously with downloads it can't really be compared. I don't think there are many people who would be downloading songs they already have. It is prob just the younger generation wanting his music after him being played non-stop on all the music channels on TV and Radio. I can understand why more people are buying his music but I never expected the demand to be this high. It is pretty unreal.

Edited July 1, 200915 yr by Scotty

Finally you admit it is in your opinion :P I dont think you have once said 'imo' throughout this thread. You have been speaking as though what you are saying is fact. That is why I said it.

 

tbh m8, i thought it was taken as read that it was my opinion, i never once claimed it as fact.

Question,Is it actually physically possible to bleach your own skin? It's always been said, but when you think about it the idea of it is quite absurd..

 

 

+ another point, I've read about why some black people still like him, despite what happened with his skin colour. Answer, because, some people know that it's just a colour, and know not to judge.

Question,

Is it actually physically possible to bleach your own skin? It's always been said, but when you think about it the idea of it is quite absurd..

 

Well of course during the initial 1993 investigations, the LAPD issued MJJ with a search & strip warrant, where they took extensive photos of his nether regions. What that evidence showed was that his skin already had significant blotches and pigmentations around those areas.

 

Incidentally, one of the most significant reasons why the LAPD did not prosecute MJJ first time around was because Jordi Chandler said that MJJ had been circumcised, when the strip search proved that was not the case, which is a pretty major thing you expect someone to get right if you allege that you have had sex with them. Hence, they understandably realised the case would be torn apart in court.

 

However now doubt Mushy, Scott & Craig will say so what he was obviously bleaching his skin then. Also MJJ grand father on his mother's side suffered from a pigmentation disease, that caused his skin to discolour, but again the media (& those people who hate MJJ) have ignored these FACTS.

 

Just like they have ignored the 2008 case when Jordi Chandler in a civil court accused his father of having sex with him around that time, and then putting him up to lie about MJJ having had sex with him when his mother noticed the behavioural change in Jordi. And that MJJ had done nothing more than slept in the same bed as him, but that nothing remotely sexual happened. (Nevermind the fecking bleeding obvious that MJJ should not be sharing a bed with under 16 year olds in the first place).

 

Don't let me get started with Chief Prosecuter Tom Sneddon's past connections with a white supremist movement sharing the same three initials; or the hilarious (if the allegations were not so serious in the first place) holes so big they are pathetic that in retrospect it was quite shocking a prosecution was brought in the 2004/5 case.

 

Hence, as a neutral, much as I abhor MJJ behaviour to sleeping with children which should not be excused period, from what facts I've read against anything more severe happening, it was pretty easy to come to the conclusion that MJJ was not a sexual predator of young males, but a sad pathetic manchild.

erm...because its well documented, you can see them playing instruments, composing, experimenting, by themselves... jacko is a performer, and unlike the examples ive given, has NEVER given a coherant, intelligent, interview or film footage of doing anything creative, just performing. listen to interviews of the examples ive given... its clear they know what they are on about, jacko has never done that which is why i have a huge question mark over just how much of the songs credited to him....did he actually have anything to do with...

 

same response to scotty... its all part of the mj product, crediting him with the talent in order to create a global money making superstar idol... find me any video clip where jacko explains why he wrote what he 'did', and the reasoning behind it... bush, bowie, lennon etc all have done this, all are credible, believeable, artists but jacko just doesnt 'fit' in this league of credibility. i very strongly suspect that its all a lie, that jackos input was very minimal, that its all a part of the great business of money making project that is michael jackson and that the (sucker) fans bought into the whole illusion. does that make his music bad?... well no, its still there, but it highlights the illusion that jacko was a genius, he wasnt, but fans dont want to accept this uncomfortable possibility. <_<

 

Peter Gabriel (Q Interview, Oct 1992):

 

Q: Tell us about your association with Michael Jackson?

 

PG: I first met Michael in 1988 when he called me up at my studios in Bath prior to the UK leg of his BAD world tour. (Q: Later Peter Gabriel presented Michael Jackson with a Video Vanguard award at the 1988 VMAs) Although the guy does not do many interviews, and has a handshake like your 80 year old grandmother, what really impressed me is what a sharp customer he is, even though he is painfully shy with a relative stranger like myself. It took me aback how he had watched my CV (video compilation), and asked some very probing questions regarding how I got this shot for one video, and how I filmed that shot from a scene of another video and what the video director was like, that can only come from someone who is really involved in the visual aspect of everything they do.

 

We then talked on about song structures and techniques, although to be honest at this point I was trying to get more information out of him (laughs), and he explained how he wrote Billie Jean & Beat It, by doing these human beat box noises where the drums, guitar, bass and guide vocals should be. Incredible stuff. A human talent that I have never heard or seen before. A couple of years later I had the honour of meeting Quincy Jones at some American music awards bash and I carried on the conversation, even though Quincy was a little reticent to talk (Q: As Quincy & Michael Jackson's relationship had broken down by then) he confirmed what a talent he is(was), even though Michael is not a conventional musician (Q: Michael can play basic piano and programme synthesisers to a good demo quality level). But then again Michael Jackson is not exactly a conventional human being (laughs)...

 

[Peter then talks a little about how he is trying to get Michael to perform at one of his WOMAD festivals, after mentioning how he had donated an undisclosed "significant" sum to Peter to cover the losses of one WOMAD festival venture.]

Quincy Jones on Michael Jackson: 'We made history together'

LA Times 06:24 PM PT, Jun 29 2009

 

"Like the world, last week I was devastated by the news that Michael Jackson had suddenly left the room. This blessed artist commanded the stage with the grace of an antelope, shattered recording industry records and broke down cultural boundaries around the world, yet remained the gentlest of souls.

 

Michael Jackson was a different kind of entertainer. A man-child in many ways, he was beyond professional and dedicated. Evoking Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr. and James Brown all at once, he'd work for hours, perfecting every kick, gesture and movement so that they came together precisely the way they were intended to. Together we shared the '80s, achieving heights that I can humbly say may never be reached again and reshaped the music business forever.

 

For some reason I have had the honor of meeting young performers when they reach the age of 12. There was Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Tevin Campbell and, of course, Michael Jackson. I was fully aware of Michael and impressed by the achievements that he'd reached with the Jackson Five, but it never crossed my mind that we would eventually work together. But as is always the case, divinity interceded into the process.

 

In 1978, Sidney Lumet pulled me kicking and screaming into doing the music for "The Wiz," and in hindsight I'm so glad he did. As the scarecrow, Michael dove into the filming of "The Wiz" with everything that he had, not only learning his lines but those of everyone in the cast. Prior to filming, Michael and I were working at my home and he asked if I could help find him a producer to work with him on his first solo album from Epic.

 

At rehearsals with the cast, during the part where the scarecrow is pulling proverbs from his stuffing, Michael kept saying "So-Crates" instead of "Socrates." After about the third time, I pulled him aside and told him the correct pronunciation. He looked at me with these big wide eyes and said, "Really?" and it was at that moment that I said, "Michael, I'd like to produce your album."

 

It was that wonderment that I saw in his eyes that locked me in. I knew that we could go into completely unexplored territory, a place that as a jazz musician gave me goose bumps.

 

I pulled my "A-team" crew together, anchored by Rod Temperton, one of the best songwriters who has ever lived, and we embarked on making "Off the Wall." I simply loved working with Michael. He was so shy he'd sit down and sing behind the couch with his back to me while I sat there with my hands over my eyes with the lights off. We tried all kinds of tricks that I'd learned over the years to help him with his artistic growth, like dropping keys just a minor third to give him flexibility and a more mature range in the upper and lower registers, and more than a few tempo changes.

 

I also tried to steer him to songs with more depth, some of them about real relationships -- we weren't going to make it with ballads to rodents (i.e. "Ben"). And Seth Riggs, a leading vocal coach, gave him vigorous warm-up exercises to expand his top and bottom range by at least a fourth, which I desperately needed to get the vocal drama going. We approached that record like we were going into battle. "Off the Wall" would sell 10 million copies.

 

Anyone who tells you that they knew a record was going to be a big hit is a flat-out liar. We had no idea "Off the Wall" was going to be as successful as it was, but we were thrilled. Michael had moved from the realm of bubble-gum pop and planted his flag square in the heart of the musical pulse of the '80s, but what came next, I don't think any of us were ready for.

 

The 'Thriller' saga

 

The drama surrounding "Thriller" seemed to never end. As we were recording the album, Steven Spielberg asked me to do a storybook song with Michael for "E.T." We were already behind schedule on "Thriller," but great, no problem. The movie was a big hit, we loved Steven, and so, off to work we went with Rod Temperton and Marilyn and Alan Bergman writing the song. Naturally, of course, this would evolve into Steven wanting us to do an "E.T." album.

 

Four months to complete "Thriller," already behind schedule, no problem. Off to work we went. In any event, it all worked out . . . Michael and I won Grammys for the album, and it became a collector's item.

 

With two months to get "Thriller" done, we dug in and really hit it. Michael, Rod, the great engineer Bruce Swedien and I had all spent so much time together by now that we had a shorthand, so moving quickly wasn't a problem. I told Michael that we needed a black rock 'n' roll tune -- a black "My Sharona" -- and a begging tune for the album. He came back the next day with "Beat It" and Rod came back with "The Lady in My Life."

 

Rod also brought in "Thriller" and Michael sang his heart out on it. At one point during the session the right speaker burst into flames, which none of us had ever seen before. How's that for a sign?

 

We finished the album at 9 a.m. the morning we needed to deliver the reference copy. We had three studios going all night long. Michael in one putting final touches on a late self-penned composition "Billie Jean," Bruce in another, and Eddie Van Halen, who I brought in, in yet another recording his parts for "Beat It."

 

We all gathered in Studio A to listen to the test pressing with this enormous anticipation. This was it, the eagerly anticipated follow-up to "Off the Wall." And it sounded . . . terrible. After all of that great work we were doing, it wasn't there. There was total silence in the studio, and one by one we walked across the hall for some alone time. We'd put too much material on the record. Michael was in tears.

 

We took two days off, and in the next eight days, we set about reshaping the album, mixing just one song a day. Rod cut a verse from "The Lady in My Life," and we shortened the long, long intro to "Billie Jean," something Michael hated to do because he said the intro "made him want to dance."

 

MTV breakthrough

 

We delivered the album and watched "Billie Jean" -- thanks to Michael's debut performance of the moonwalk on the 25th anniversary of Motown special -- "Beat It" and "Thriller" just explode, fueled in part by heavy video rotation on MTV. Prior to "Billie Jean," MTV wasn't playing videos with black artists. "Billie Jean," "Beat It" and "Thriller" took us straight to the stratosphere. After those three videos, virtually every video on MTV was trying to emulate their style.

 

Michael, the music and MTV all went to the mountaintop. It was the perfect convergence of forces. In the music business, every decade you have a phenomenon. In the '40s you had Sinatra, in the '50s Elvis, in the '60s the Beatles, in the '70s the innovation of Dolby, despite the best efforts of Stevie Wonder and Elton John. In the '80s you had Michael Jackson. For everyone from 8 to 80, he was the biggest entertainer on the planet. Followed up with "Bad" and the collective on "We Are the World," we all made history together. We owned the '80s and our souls would be connected forever.

 

Shortly after "Thriller" came out and simply chewed up everything in its way, I went to see Count Basie at the Palladium with Benny Carter and Ed Eckstine. Basie was like a father to me, having kind of adopted me when I was 13, and he wasn't in the greatest shape. He was in a wheelchair and when he saw me, he said with a sense of pride, "Man, [what] you and Michael did, me and Duke would never even dream about nothin' that big. We wouldn't even dare to dream about it." You can't imagine how proud I felt, hearing that from one of my idols, not realizing that it would be the last time that I'd see him alive. Because together we helped smash down the race barrier.

 

There will be a lot written about what came next in Michael's life, but for me all of that is just noise. I promise you in 50, 75, 100 years, what will be remembered is the music. It's no accident that almost three decades later, with a black President in the White House that seemed an impossible dream back then, no matter where I go in the world, in every club and karaoke bar, like clockwork, you hear "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Wanna Be Starting Something," "Rock With You" and "Thriller."

 

In every language on the planet, from prison yards in the Philippines to Thrilltheworld.com, that will be the beautiful, grand legacy of Michael Jackson.

 

--Quincy Jones

Where the heck did you find out that Jordan Chandler was suing his Dad for sex abuse?

All I can find is a reference to a case for Evan Chandler physically attacking his son with a bar-bell.

 

And anybody who says that Jackson was not a paedophile, just a man-child... so what?

 

If Jackson had been a nobody then there wouldn't be anybody making these flimsy apologies for his behaviour.

Peter Gabriel (Q Interview, Oct 1992):

 

Q: Tell us about your association with Michael Jackson?

 

and he explained how he wrote Billie Jean & Beat It, by doing these human beat box noises where the drums, guitar, bass and guide vocals should be.

Which is shown in the video I posted on the other page, which Mushy has ignored.

So according to so called music experts on this site, Michael Jackson could not write or compose songs without the help of collaborators and was not a musician......

 

If so what are these then:

 

Michael Jackson - Shake Your Body (Down To The Ground demo)

 

MJJ plays all instrumentation bar brother Randy on guitars & bass.

 

Michael Jackson - Billie Jean (demo)

 

All MJJ's synth programming efforts, no one else is on this demo track, before Quincy Jones got hold of it. I don't know about you, but it sounds pretty much all there to me.

 

Michael Jackson - We Are The World demo

 

Again all MJJ's efforts, this time displaying his limited but effective piano playing, again before Quincy Jones got involved to produce it, and before Lionel Richie added a bit and changed the lyrics to "improve" it. (Although I personally never liked the song anyway as it sounded like a Coke advert IMHO).

Thank you for posting all of that Richard! I don't even care about trying to make those lot see sense but it was all a genuinely interesting read. I would give anything to see how he worked in the studio, to witness it first-hand. Imagine the magic...

 

Do you know why he and Quincy fell out? Was it during or after the recording of Bad? It seems a shame because even though it's not wise to never leave your comfort zone, Bad was his best album (by far). On a similar note, I think what makes Michael a genius is that he wasn't afraid to experiment a little. HIStory took quite a rocky angle in comparison to his previous work, particular 'DS' (which he produced himself). Not all of his music was great; Thriller was patchy, Dangerous is mostly filler, HIStory is over-long; but isn't that the mark of a genius? They try something, it works, but they don't remain stagnant; they try something else, it doesn't work, again they move on.

the point of this thread was to discuss jacko, not to prove he was this or that but to question it.

 

so richard has provided evidence to suggest that jacko did create his music... so what? it was the ammount of input that i questioned. questioned on the back of the hype that has surrounded that character. it matters not.

 

his skin change is still in serious doubt and more research needs to be done, he changed suddenly, all over his face/body, there was no gradual blotching like youd expect plus he was changing his features from negoid to caucasian.... deeply suspicous and conveiniant.

 

ive often said that regardless of wether or not sexual abuse took place, his behaviour towards children is totally unacceptable and those turning a blind eye 'just because its jacko' are fcukin hypocrits and if he DID abuse children would be complicit in assisting his behaviour.

 

of course the 'he was never convicted' brigade ignore the stash of porn he showed to kids, the alcohol he plied to them... why would he do that if there was no sexual motive there? c'mon richard... as a neutral, whats the excuse?

 

and the excuses that have been given in his name for over 20 years now is exactly why i doubt anything the management tell us about him. as far as im concerned, the last 20 years of lunacy has totally obliterated his decent music that i wouldnt argue against.