They were and are considered trance. Might be commercial trance, might be trance you dont like, but they are nevertheless examples of it. Any genre will have its more commercial side, whether that's a good thing will depend on your point of view and personal taste.

 

But yeah, obviously fans of trance know that 1999 is the king year for the genre, not necessarily for the many top10 hits, but for the many classics produced that year and between 1998 and 2001. And if you didnt like the genre then, well you obviously werent fans of it all along. I'll definitely take Gouryelle, Chicane, Veracocha, Agnelli & Nelson, Balearic Bill, Lost Tribe, Rank 1, System F, Aurora, Lost Witness, Ayla, Push, York, Solar Stone, Lustral, Matt Darey, Energy 52, etc, all over the likes Shamen whom I hated. But I did like FSOL though. But then we're comparing trance with other genres and debating which genre is better? FSOL can arguably be seen as trance, although a very ambient version of it, but the other two weren't imo. Might've incorporated elements of it, but not actually trance, more in the electro/acid house area.

Anyway that's just how it is. Some like one dance genre, some like others. Few like many.

even though the klf first coined the phrase.

 

Well, if they coined it, is it not actually reasonable to assume that perhaps they meant it as a means to describe themselves, as they were at the genesis of genre....?

 

YOU may not be sticking up for the Euro Pap, but I'm really not so sure about Scottyem tbh....

 

And if you didnt like the genre then, well you obviously werent fans of it all along.

 

Oh, right so if I dont like the commercial, cheesy, dumbed-down PAP, then obviously I'm not a "true" fan.... Give over you prat, me and Russ probably forgotten more about how the Rave/Techno/Dance/House scenes started out than most of you lot will ever know, mate, it's OUR generation of music dude..... <_< I suppose, to take your argument to the logical extreme, because I detested all these sh!tty fukkin' Nu Metal bands that infested the scene from about '97-01, then I'm not a "true" fan of Metal.....?

They were and are considered trance. Might be commercial trance, might be trance you dont like, but they are nevertheless examples of it.

 

i dont agree

 

every time a new fashionable style (or genre) of music comes out (and im talking retro, 60's - early 80's) the charts get their share of 'music in the style of'.... but it wasnt pure to the genre, it was commercialised contemporary pop.

 

was 'modern romance' eg a 'new romantic' group?..... no...they were a contemporary pop group playing pop in the current fashionable style.

 

same could be said for eg about the adverts...'gary gilmores eyes', it wasnt real punk, it was contemporary pop done in the current fashion.

 

'glamrock' may be the biggest example, sweet, slade, gary glitter, produced contemporary styled pop... the 'big' thing was rock, were they led zep? were they black sabbath? were they deep purple or hawkwind? no.... they were pops equivelant.

 

although real trance did make the charts, atb, dj jean, alice dee jay, ian van dahl, etc etc etc were exactly the same.... contemporary commercial pop done in the current fashionable style, in 99 the big fashionable style was trance.

uhmm, listen old prat, not all of us consider the likes of Energy 52, Solar Stone, Rank 1, etc, cheesy trance. Its quality trance whether you like it or not. What makes your opinion more valid than the rest? Get down from your high horse, not everyone bows down to whatever you say. What you liked back in the early 90s wasnt trance anyway. The genre was in its embrionic state, and the likes of the atrocious Shamen were not responsible for creating the genre, and were never a part of it in the first place.

although real trance did make the charts, atb, dj jean, alice dee jay, ian van dahl, etc etc etc were exactly the same.... contemporary commercial pop done in the current fashionable style, in 99 the big fashionable style was trance.

 

Except they were considered trance. The proper dj's hated it cos it gave the genre a bad name, but it was immediately labelled as commercial trance or eurotrance, as it encompassed a lot of the "details" that defined a trance song. Nevertheless, yes, it was pop done in a trancier way. Whenever a song mixes two or more genres, its classified as a subgenre of any of those, and trance was a big influence on all of those songs. But yeah, its all marketing to make the package more attractive, and trance did make it more attractive back in the day.

Well, if they coined it, is it not actually reasonable to assume that perhaps they meant it as a means to describe themselves, as they were at the genesis of genre....?

 

YOU may not be sticking up for the Euro Pap, but I'm really not so sure about Scottyem tbh....

 

been here before scott, the style evolved until it found its zenith with 'euphoric' trance, binary finery being the prime example...a track that will reach into your body and send tingles down your spine inducing a feeling of euphoria. klf, shamen, much though i love most of their material, didnt do that.

 

and boy it dont half sound even better when 'coming down' ;) though that is NOT a pre-requisit to enjoying that music.

Except they were considered trance. The proper dj's hated it cos it gave the genre a bad name, but it was immediately labelled as commercial trance or eurotrance, as it encompassed a lot of the "details" that defined a trance song. Nevertheless, yes, it was pop done in a trancier way. Whenever a song mixes two or more genres, its classified as a subgenre of any of those, and trance was a big influence on all of those songs.

 

ok.... i can accept that :)

been here before scott, the style evolved until it found its zenith with 'euphoric' trance, binary finery being the prime example...a track that will reach into your body and send tingles down your spine inducing a feeling of euphoria. klf, shamen, much though i love most of their material, didnt do that.

 

and boy it dont half sound even better when 'coming down' ;) though that is NOT a pre-requisit to enjoying that music.

 

There are many subgenres of trance. I think what you liked was a very specific subgenre, euphoric trance (which I loved too), and artists like KLF and Shamen were never responsible for that genre, and were never a part of it. At the end of the day, its music, and variety is good. If we all liked the same stuff, jeesh it would be a nightmare haha.

uhmm, listen old prat, not all of us consider the likes of Energy 52, Solar Stone, Rank 1, etc, cheesy trance. Its quality trance whether you like it or not. What makes your opinion more valid than the rest? Get down from your high horse, not everyone bows down to whatever you say. What you liked back in the early 90s wasnt trance anyway. The genre was in its embrionic state, and the likes of the atrocious Shamen were not responsible for creating the genre, and were never a part of it in the first place.

 

not true m8

 

the premis of the 'boss drum' album was to 'dance yourself into a mind altering state' (ie be a shamen) that by using repetitive beats your mind can be opened, altering your state of conciousness to enlighten yourself. if you ask me i reckon 'boss drum' was seminal in the 'embyonic development' of trance as a genre .... i recomend you listen to it, 'activate the rhythm that has always been within you' :) lol.

The genre was in its embrionic state, and the likes of the atrocious Shamen were not responsible for creating the genre, and were never a part of it in the first place.

 

AND...? I suppose then you wouldn't describe Black Sabbath or Led Zep as being Hard Rock/Metal acts either then on that amazing logic of yours, just because no one at the time had bothered to ascribe the term.... BOLLOCKS..... OF COURSE the KLF, FSOL, System 7, The Shamen, etc, etc, were prototype Trance acts, any fool knows that.... You are just so typical of the ignorance you people seem to have about the genre you supposedly love....

 

Some PR man comes along and re-classifies Europop/Eurodance as being "Trance", and you fall for it...... :lol: :lol: Sorry, but if some PR or marketing guy comes along and advertises Linkin Park or My Chemical Romance as being Extreme Metal acts, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE THEM SO, does it......? Just putting a few vague "trancey" bits on something that sounds an awful lot like 2 Unlimited or Snap to begin with doesn't equate to "Trance Techno" any more than the odd growly vocal or layered drum solo would suddenly, by some kind of osmosis, turn Linkin Park into Death Metal.....

 

Binary Finary, Infected Mushroom, Veracocha, etc, are TRANCE... Ian Van Dahl, ATB, Robert Miles, etc, is just Pop Music with a few 'trancey' pretentions to sell it to clubbers who probably wouldn't buy it if it was labelled "Eurobeat" or "Europop"..... Pop done in a "trancier" way is still Pop......

 

I thoroughly object to how the term "Trance" has been abused by marketing men as a means to print money by putting out these endless, cringeworthy, utterly toe-curling "Trance" compilations....

I'm not gonna use rock/punk metaphors since I have no clue, and I really dont care about it :P

 

Fine let's say they were trance, there are dozens of different trance genres. At the end of the day, you like a certain subgenre of "trance", we like another, or others.

 

And I agree with your last comment, although "pop done in a trancier way" = "trance done in a poppier way", so at the end of the day, both genres are involved.

AND...? I suppose then you wouldn't describe Black Sabbath or Led Zep as being Hard Rock/Metal acts either then on that amazing logic of yours, just because no one at the time had bothered to ascribe the term.... BOLLOCKS..... OF COURSE the KLF, FSOL, System 7, The Shamen, etc, etc, were prototype Trance acts, any fool knows that.... You are just so typical of the ignorance you people seem to have about the genre you supposedly love....

 

Some PR man comes along and re-classifies Europop/Eurodance as being "Trance", and you fall for it...... :lol: :lol: Sorry, but if some PR or marketing guy comes along and advertises Linkin Park or My Chemical Romance as being Extreme Metal acts, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE THEM SO, does it......? Just putting a few vague "trancey" bits on something that sounds an awful lot like 2 Unlimited or Snap to begin with doesn't equate to "Trance Techno" any more than the odd growly vocal or layered drum solo would suddenly, by some kind of osmosis, turn Linkin Park into Death Metal.....

 

Binary Finary, Infected Mushroom, Veracocha, etc, are TRANCE... Ian Van Dahl, ATB, Robert Miles, etc, is just Pop Music with a few 'trancey' pretentions to sell it to clubbers who probably wouldn't buy it if it was labelled "Eurobeat" or "Europop"..... Pop done in a "trancier" way is still Pop......

 

I thoroughly object to how the term "Trance" has been abused by marketing men as a means to print money by putting out these endless, cringeworthy, utterly toe-curling "Trance" compilations....

 

yeah but scott, like ive said, you could say this about ANY genre of music... the marketing men get hold of everything and commercialise it to sell it to the masses. thats what the singles charts are for.... but this is by no means attributable only to trance....

if you ask me i reckon 'boss drum' was seminal in the 'embyonic development' of trance as a genre .... i recomend you listen to it, 'activate the rhythm that has always been within you' :) lol.

 

EXACTLY.....

 

And the brilliant "Re-Evolution" as well, with narration by none other than Terrence McKenna, a BIG name in the whole area of altered states of consciousness..... Nah, The Shamen were never Trance, were they.....? :rolleyes: Some people need educated.....

 

Do you people seriously believe that a trance state or an altered state of consciousness merely equates to dancing around like a demented chimp while popping Ketamine....? Try some LSD or mushies some time...... :rolleyes:

love 're evolution'..... extremely interesting material.

not true m8

 

the premis of the 'boss drum' album was to 'dance yourself into a mind altering state' (ie be a shamen) that by using repetitive beats your mind can be opened, altering your state of conciousness to enlighten yourself. if you ask me i reckon 'boss drum' was seminal in the 'embyonic development' of trance as a genre .... i recomend you listen to it, 'activate the rhythm that has always been within you' :) lol.

 

what's your name haha? hate debating without knowing names :P It seems we have very different tastes, but share the same passion on this genre :)

 

Perhaps, I dont know their entire back catalogue, although their most famous pieces are not trance. But then that applies the same with ATB, and how some stuff falls under the cheesier side and some under serious trance, so it is possible.

 

I do agree with FSOL and Age of Love as primary examples of trance. But that falls under a specific category of trance that doesnt encompass the massively diverse genre trance became, incorporating elements from pretty much everywhere. For me that's a good thing, because the genre evolves and spreads its wings. If the genre always stayed the same, the genre wouldnt have grown and created other styles such as euphoric trance, which for me, was the absolute best to come out of ANY dance genre.

yeah but scott, like ive said, you could say this about ANY genre of music... the marketing men get hold of everything and commercialise it to sell it to the masses. thats what the singles charts are for.... but this is by no means attributable only to trance....

 

They seem to abuse Trance more than just about any other though mate..... Look at the sheer volume of compilations out there, it's like a bad dose of the clap..... You dont exactly see a million "emo" or "indie" compilations being marketed do you....?

 

Indie or emo compilations never sold that well, and didnt depend so much on compilations. Unlike dance artists, the majority of them release studio albums for people to buy. Dance music has always depended a lot of its revenue on compilations, and not just trance. You can find all kinds of house compilations, garage, d&b, or simply plain old dance mix compilations.

 

The topic has served its purpose imo, since its unlikely any of us will change our opinions anyway. :P I guess you can close it Jarvis

They seem to abuse Trance more than just about any other though mate..... Look at the sheer volume of compilations out there, it's like a bad dose of the clap..... You dont exactly see a million "emo" or "indie" compilations being marketed do you....?

 

reckon its cos it was dance at its zenith.... and with dance being pretty much p*** poor for the last several years i guess the marketing men want to milk the better times. ok theres some good dance/trance around atm, but its out of fashion amongst all but the faithful. hell whos opening at 'pascha' on ibiza? fukkin KEANE (think it was pascha ...one of the 'big clubs' anyway). i can easily link euphoric trance to summer, to the med, and if its not getting any airplay there then things are pretty poor.

 

ive seen youtube vids from pascha, recent ones, they were playing 'ymca' FFS ... places like that used to be the bedrock of trance.... (or so im lead to believe, ive never been to ibiza, im going off what ive been told ).

what's your name haha? hate debating without knowing names :P It seems we have very different tastes, but share the same passion on this genre :)

 

Perhaps, I dont know their entire back catalogue, although their most famous pieces are not trance. But then that applies the same with ATB, and how some stuff falls under the cheesier side and some under serious trance, so it is possible.

 

I do agree with FSOL and Age of Love as primary examples of trance. But that falls under a specific category of trance that doesnt encompass the massively diverse genre trance became, incorporating elements from pretty much everywhere. For me that's a good thing, because the genre evolves and spreads its wings. If the genre always stayed the same, the genre wouldnt have grown and created other styles such as euphoric trance, which for me, was the absolute best to come out of ANY dance genre.

 

tiz i mushy, under my temporary 'anti jacko' username :lol:

 

yep i agree with that :)