torresgirl

He really wants her to win I think but he's started backing Ben more because (my opinion only and no facts) I think Ben is getting more votes. Just a feeling. The crowd reaction to Mel and Cheryl to a point, last week when they didn't praise the performance (I've never quite heard a reaction like that) told him that too.

Yes I can understand that. Just messing. I really like that song too but as I love his voice I think I will like it.

Let's face it you wouldn't like anything Ben did so the song choice is irrelevant :P

Yeah sorry I just saw Ben's and reacted! I thought it was going to be the same for all. I'm not sure Hallelujah was originally Christmas song or released at Christmas? And obviously Alexandra won with that song at Christmas. I love her version. Now I've considered I think Ben can do that well and his first choice will really suit him too.

Two Christmas songs for Ben? I love him but this may even test me :) What an awful theme and Andrea doing Miley Cyrus! LOL

We crossed :)

Christmas Songs Lauren - Stay Another Day Fleur - All I want for Christmas is You Ben - Please Come Home for Christmas Andrea - O Holy Night Awful for Lauren, good for Ben and Fleur (depending if Fleur can do it vocally and arrangement) Andrea will shout his way through.

Yeah I read that too. I think there were domestic violence allegations. Imagine living on your nerves all the time thinking any tiny thing can upset her. Not much fun if she was like that at home.

She is one of those people who casts a cloud over a group. You can't talk to her at all and that nasty expression is very off putting. On the defence immediately.

Yeah they are fun. The one tonight was hilarious. They do make a great team as they are both ultra competitive but it doesn't come across in a bad way and they work as a team not to look good individually. Spelling left a lot to be desired though :lol:

Foggy for me. I've gotten to like him more and more as the show has gone on and he was fantastic in last nights trial. Plus he made LOL when he said "Well done Edna"!! :) Just hope Mel doesn't get anywhere near winning. Awful.

I agree. I hate Music channels at this time of year. Not in favour of a Christmas theme here as well. Don't they normally do that on the last show anyway? The previous themes were much better.

Only when Nadal's not playing and Ben isn't singing :) Another version of Say you'll be There :)

Hello everyone haven't posted here for long time. Hope everyone is well! My two cents on the XF. Ben all the way for me this year. Loved his voice since auditions. Even though some of the themes haven't necessarily suited him (what were they thinking with I will always love you?) Despite Mel trying to pigeon hole him as a rock voice I actually prefer his "softer" bluesy moments like Ain't no Sunshine and he can do this kind of stuff very well and as well as the rocky stuff. The verses of Thinking Out Loud this week were beautiful, he is also looking more and more comfortable on stage every week. As for Fleur I like her but that's as far as it goes. She is the one who looks most comfortable on stage no doubt and she has a good package to sell but vocally not so good for me. Andrea I am bored of now. Maybe Mel needs to take the advice she gave to Ben about "pulling it back" and give it to her own contestant :P He is mostly shouting and hurts my ears most weeks. It seems Lauren is very popular around here, although she is quite good vocally she has literally zero stage presence and looks so awkward so up there. I'm surprised she has made it this far. She did sing very well in the sing off last weekend though and deserved to stay based on that. So for me it will be 1. Ben 2. Fleur 3. Andrea 4. Lauren

Yet you don't reply to any of my points. If you think just because there are people that are undeservedly rich in the country if gives others people the licence to behave however they want then good for you :) Nice pic you posted btw :rolleyes:

You keep saying that these cases are an exception. I don't now where you live but they are clearly not. You make it sound like 1 or 2 people. 40,000 plus people is not an exception and that figure wasn't counting the people with less children that do the same. Cutting the Welfare budget is just one way of saving money. Anyway my posts have mainly come from a moral point of view. Yes a lot of money is wasted when people who could work claim or have multiple children they can't afford but for me the main issue is the way people who try to do the right thing are treated compared to those who are irresponsible. You haven't answered any of the points about this kind of behaviour, so going to leave it there as we are going around in circles.

How do you know? Because you want to believe it? You keep asking for evidence and produce none of your own. At least I have given examples from previous and present personal experience. You just seem to say anything you don't believe is exaggerated. Maybe take it up with BBC News and other news organisation who tell us these things and give us the information. If I have to explain to you why it's bad to expect other people to pay for children you can't be bothered to look after, well I'm speechless quite frankly and maybe it explains why the country is in such a state. What has their irresponsibility got to do with wages topping up? They are separate issues. It will hardly be an issue for these types will it And anyway people that are working deserve that help. They are showing their children which they are bringing up a good example, which the people you see fit to defend are not. As long as the Tax credits are in your income it matters little where the money comes from.

I'm sorry I think that's nonsense.

Are you seriously saying you have never seen those documentaries where this is the case? Or are these cases cases made up in your eyes? Its just a part of a general point I'm making. I don;t know the exact numbers none of us do. My point is a growing trend for fecklessness. Do you think that the 40k or however many it was claiming with 4 children or more who haven't worked are entitled to what they get? I'm genuinely interested. I just don't understand why people jump to the defence of such people. It makes no sense to me. As for paying in and getting out there are many examples of people who work all there lives being shafted. Just look at the Elderly who have to sell their homes to pay for care, while of course if you don't own your home or savings you get the care anyway. I'm NOT saying these people should be left to rot but where's the incentive to look after yourself in this country. I already said that people who have gotten divorced or separated from long term relationships are not who I'm talking about. I lost my job after 19 years and I was treated with distain as my previous posts on this topic.

I don't see how one thing is related to another to be honest. Its common decency to want to support your own isn't it? And surely the argument being applied that bad examples are few at the "poor" end of society can be applied at the richer end too. Also we can't all be millionaires what kind of logic is this? I won't bother because people in the city earn million? Excuses once again.

OK how many are the very small numbers? Do you ever watch tv? On BBC news a few weeks ago, I saw there were I think 40,000 (or similar, that's from memory so may be wrong but it was a lot and I remember being shocked.) on benefits claiming for 4 children or more. And also I came from a very large family and my uncles and aunts all behaved like this, which Is why I have no respect for them and am the way I am today. The aunt I spent most of my childhood with had 8 children and never worked (three different fathers) and 4 of her children have never worked at all and have more than 3 children each. Oh and I agree about the Royal family. Glorified spongers the lot of them. When I met my ex husband at 19 and moved away and bought my own home, they all told me "I thought I was above myself", funny I've seen this attitude here too from some posters about people who try and make something of themselves being somehow in the wrong. Interesting.

Jobs start appearing? To find a job you have to look for one......

Create jobs for those that want to work yes, but we are talking about the irresponsible section where generations have never worked & choose "alternative" lifestyles.

I don't know what the proportion is for in/out work but you have to remember that the people who are getting working tax credit for example are also paying tax, which redeems a lot of the money given out to them in some ways. Wheras people who are not are a drain on resources. And as has been said previously, its not just the unemployment benefit, the money has to be found to pay rent, Council tax, heating and the rest for these people as well. Like I said I was unemployed myself for six months or so and of course not everyone chooses to be. These people should get help to maintain their lifestyle while seeking work in my opinion as they have contributed for many years. Why someone who has contributed nothing can complain about whatever they are given is beyond me. Also the "moral blackmail" argument that the children will suffer etc I can understand from you, but where do you draw the line? Like Gezza says there has to be some way to try and get people to act responsibly. Successive governments on both sides have failed to tackle this. People who do avoid working & have multiple children etc have a certain mentality. They obviously do not care about the burden put on society by their actions, but we all feel guilty because the children may suffer etc. Again like Gezza says "someone will bail me out".

I am not talking about people who get married have a long term partner or whatever and split up. I'm talking about people who are irresponsible and expect others to pick up the pieces. Have you really not seen the many teenagers having babies before they have even worked and many who have children by different fathers who have abandonded them but think the next guy will be different and do the same thing again? All this while not working but oh well I have a baby someone will pay. The tax credit system (which I believe you are referring) which tops up income is a good thing. It keeps more people in work and promotes self help and self esteem. There are all sorts of benefits and I don't have any problem with anyone in work getting their salary topped up this way. I do have a problem however with people who contribute nothing and think the world owes them a living. I have seen this behaviour multiple times growing up and its much more common than you may think.