torresgirl

I will not disagree that some wages should be higher (wages in my sector have come down because its so competitive) obviously depending on what the job is. All I'm saying is people shouldn't be penalised for working and supporting themselves. The Child Tax credit system is great actually and a good incentive. My main point was that people on benefits are not necessarily worse off than people working in good jobs. When you are working you pay for everything, when you don't work you don't. It evens out in a lot of cases.

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand me? I am saying obviously that contraception and Education are FREE for all so there is absolutely no excuse for having children you can't support at others expense and certainly not doing it more than once. They make themselves "poor" in some cases. There are always going to be some people better off than others what do you want to do. Take money from people who work and give a share to people who are irresponsible? They are certainly wages that are ridiculous but I don't let the fact I'm earning average wage and some banker may be earning 10 times what I am make me bitter. If I could get a job like that I would and I'm sure most people would as well. Its too simplistic your argument. I have more problem with the teen age mums who have never worked and get everything paid for them than I do with someone working in the City. When I lost my job I didn't apply for Council tax reduction for a few months because I wanted to support myself and was hoping to find work quickly. When I didn't find work and asked for help because my money was running out I was told "you should have applied from your first day of unemployment" and they penalised me gave me minimal support. I guess I should have rushed down there straight away and taken money I didn't need. This country is warped. They are happy to pay irresponsible people though year in year out but not help me for a couple of months while I tried to find a job. I know we are not going to agree and that's fine but the way things are done really makes me angry and fed up of hearing everyone is a victim. Some are unfortunate, yes, many more are not.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone else to blame but themselves. I guess its the Tories fault that certain groups that don't have the means to do so have children they can't support for example. Contraception is free no? I guess we blame the education system that's also free which sends them from school so stupid? The reward free accommodation, bills paid etc. And people that are working in average jobs support these people while struggling themselves but hey because they work and support their children, that's seen as "helping yourself" by some of the responses on here. As a recent poster said it's not black and white and the whole "Money bad, the poor good" nonsense is so ridiculous.

I meant that they enjoy helping people who don't help themselves and ignore the people who do a lot of the time, as I've seen from my own experience. I didn't mean anyone unemployed doesn't bother but there are many irresponsible people out there. I don't think the Tories are much better in this regard but at least they promote self help in some ways.

And also the party for anyone who doesn't bother to work lol

Sugarbabes for me :)

Fair enough. Maybe I misunderstood. I thought he meant she wasn't as popular as the alternative. It's fine anyway.

That's like saying a song doesn't deserve to be #1 if it sells 45% of the total sales that week because 55% of the public didn't buy it. People were given the choice and she was the most popular choice. I've just never understood that argument.

I agree with this, I think its been pretty balanced. I haven't read many newspapers but the TV coverage has been ok. The BBC and Channel 4 news are very left wing in general and pointed out a lot of the "bad".

Yes I agree some people work far too many hours. Its about balance. The job I was previously made redundant from took my work (and there was plenty) and shared it around much higher paid people giving them even more stress and making them less productive. All they cared about though was saving money not the welfare of their employees. Yes the Company I work for is relatively small (15 ppl or so) and the Boss is a complete control freak and workaholic. Not what I'm used to being previously working for a huge retail company where I had much more freedom to make decisions.

Its ok :) Yes I can relate to most of that. I always said I wouldn't have a problem paying more taxes if the money was going to the best causes (imo more teachers, health care, further education etc) but I get resentful of people who take take take and think the world owes them a living. You should contribute to society as a whole. As I said I am a divorced single parent and sometimes I am so exhausted I can't see straight and would love to be home when my kids come home from school and not being going shopping at 6pm, cooking and cleaning an hour later and doing the same day in day out. Its hard. But ultimately I would rather do that and show my kids the right way to go and that work pays and there is a good feeling that when you achieve something its from your own hard work.

No worries. I didn't mean that. I just meant that from the background I had, if I could buy my own house etc, others could too. Mainly in response to comments about Thatcher making it impossible for many to afford housing. I was unemployed for 6 months in between jobs and it was stressful as because I own my home and have made sacrifices and effort I got very little help. While other who never contribute get looked after. I just think things should be fair. I'm not a fan of a certain section who almost frown upon people who do the right thing. My main point is that hard work and sacrifice should pay off and there nothing wrong with wanting better for my children than I had for me. When I was unemployed, I saw many things, like the people signing on the same time as me regularly arranging to go the pub afterwards, while I was applying for 20 jobs a day. I saw other genuinely wanting to find work. Like I said in my original post its complex.

Very nicely put.

Excuse me?? Maybe you should read the whole post. I am not living the life of Reilly far from it. Because I worked hard from nothing and own my own house I don't care? How ridiculous. I care about people that struggle in low paid jobs and get no help but not about people who choose to have multiple children they can't pay for. If I'm selfish for working hard and earning my keep, what is sitting on your backside while others pay for your irresponsibility? Society is warped!

I'm not saying some people aren't grossly overpaid as some may be underpaid but if some banker or consultant is earning 500k a year, it may be extortionate but I just don't believe that if any of us were offered similar jobs we would say no to the big salary. Its about doing the best for the people you care about. I currently work for a multi millionaire as Personal Assistant, he could afford to pay me much more and not even miss it. A small rise would make a huge difference to me. However I don't come home every night and resent what he has. He works all the hours god sends and never sees his family and when on holiday never relaxes and constantly calls the office. Quite frankly I'd rather be me. Money isn't everything. A cliche but its true.

Yes exactly! There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of that opportunity. I came from a family of Del boys who took everything they could from the system, refused to work and I had hand me downs and sometimes nothing to eat. At 20, I bought my first home after working for two years with my future husband. I was earning 6.000 at the time and him not much more. If I could do that, on my low wage, I fail to see how Thatcher was responsible for people not being able to buy homes etc. Now I own my own house and I'm a single parent working full time to keep it. I get sick of people blaming others for everything they don't have. Now its an old lady who was ousted over 20 years ago! I'm not saying everyone can find the job they want but choices can be made by the individual that can prevent more pain. Economics can dictate but its a joint responsibility. It annoys me that someone like me is classified with the "haves" when its still a struggle to pay the bills etc and all I hear is about the so called less well off who don't work for years and get their bills paid and when they are asked to take some responsibility, we are told they are hitting the "vulnerable". The latest "forcing people to live on £53 a week" headline was testament to the above and how things are twisted to suit an agenda. Sorry its that's a little off topic.

This as always is not a black and white issue. I agree in the main "rich" people tended to like Thatcher but its by no means exclusive. My family were very "working class" and my Dad was unemployed for many years under her reign but he admired her strength greatly and her "Lady is not for turning" attitude. Frankly I prefer someone who sticks to what they believe in even if I disagree with it, than the MP's of today who change their mind at the drop of a hat when some group or other gets offended by their view. I didn't agree with much of what she did but like most Political parties now there isn't one that I agree with entirely. I don't think things are that black and white. Also as someone has previously mentioned, young people nowadays who vote for the same party as their father etc etc just because of class need to think outside the box a bit more and actually look at the issues. I don't like politics of envy and I have no problem with someone who makes something of themselves and gets rich. The vulnerable need looking after yes, but people need to help themselves also and take some personal responsibility. I was made redundant recently after almost 18 years but I don't see that as the governments fault, I had to look for another job, its the way of the world. There is no such thing as jobs for life and why would you keep an industry going in its not making money? Times Change. I guess what I'm saying is people STILL blaming Mrs Thatcher for their woes so many years later really shouldn't be. Its not her fault if you choose to have kids that you can't afford to keep etc and expect the taxpayer to pay for them. One of many examples of a society we live in where no one seems to be responsible and others have to pick up that tab. I won't lose any sleep over her passing but I think some of what I have read on social network sites is absolutely disgusting and says more about the people posting it than it did about her.

I sincerely hope it doesn't tbh. What an awful message it sends to the rest of the world.

Dear God, how low can we sink...

Real pity how Joe McElderry's career has been handled. So talented but whoever is handling him always seems to get it wrong.

Couldn't agree more. All the judges are awful and the contestants not much better. The show has no atmosphere at all.

Watch us wreck the Mike, Psyche! :lol:

Forever in love with What Goes Around Comes Around! Still...

I have nothing against the girls getting a #1 they are inoffensive to me but I don't think the song is anything to get excited about.

OK finally got a chance to listen to this all the way through (3 times lol) and I'm loving it. Stand outs at the moment. Don't Hold The wall is just brilliant , new found love for Suit and Tie and adoring Strawberry Bubblegum and That Girl :) The epic-ness of Mirrors is not diminishing either.