joecomments

It's about 10,000 down on where Classic was after 3 weeks. But I suppose in theory they could continue to sell it after Christmas just to see if it kept up the same level of sales - one might assume it would not sell any at all after Christmas but maybe the public don't think like that. It would look odd for it to go from 25,000 to zero the next week. I'm surprised none of Joe McElderry's fans have commented on his new single from the album, out this week: the papers, Joe and his fans were all full of it before.

Your presumption is as to what rites I have gone through: you know nothing about any such things. You have no right to presume about someone else's sexuality. You also presume Joe's sexuality makes any difference to me: it doesn't. Also, I agree fully with those saying how hard it is to come out and you sometimes feel under pressure to lie. The trouble is...Joe has repeatedly DENIED being under ANY pressure, whether to confirm OR deny he ws gay. So unless you are saying he is lying about that as well, you can't use this as an argument. Actually I suspect Joe IS lying about that and you might well be right about pressure and so on and I would be very sympathetic if that were true. This is the trouble with lying: once you start, people can never believe anything you say.

Well it was suggested I should set up a Twitter account for Pixie Lott: I just explained why I'm not going to. Also, please don't make presumptions about what I know or don't know about sexuality. My sexuality is my business because I didn't choose to go on the front page of the Sun to announce it (or to lie about it). And I agree someone is entitled to hide their sexuality (as I just said, it's their business): that doesn't mean they're entitled to deliberately mislead people as to their sexuality for the purpose of selling albums. We have enough liars in public life already without adding more.

Sounds like a good idea! Can you just remind me though: when did Pixie Lott come out as straight on the front page of the Sun, claiming to have no idea where the rumours she was gay came from? And what was the date, 7 months later, when she appeared again on the front page of the Sun, this time claiming she had only just discovered she was gay, even though she had an affair with another woman a year before? Armed with the evidence that she too is a pathological liar, I can get going on the Twitter accounts! :D

I certainly don't want to fall foul of the rules. Can you explain how it works? I thought people came to Buzzjack for accurate and lively analysis of the music scene and of the charts in particular (well that's what I get from it anyway). So in response to someone else comparing Joe McElderry and The Wanted I replied purely quoting their respective chart figures to show that the comparison as a matter of FACT is not made out. I didn't actually make any comment about Joe good or bad. Are you saying that you are only allowed to make positive comments about Joe on Buzzjack - even to the extent of not comparing his chart stats with other artists if the comparison is not favourable? I genuinely want to know this because if Buzzjack is now a fan site for Joe McElderry it's helpful to know when considering how accurate the information it gives about his chart and sales figures is likely to be (same goes for any other site of course: you want to know if it allows a range of discussion and views or whether it's purely one sided).

The problem was that you didn't present any argument to support your view. You asked rhetorically for example if The Wanted's bubble has burst as their latest album isn't doing well. Their first album, issued the same time as Joe's, has been certified double platinum (600,000 shipments): Joe's first album has sold 100,000 (actual sales but as far as I know, there has been no great increase in shipments) in that time. Their second album (the one you said was doing worse than Joe's 3rd album) sold 47,500 in its first week: Joe's 3rd album sold 34,000. In any case, The Wanted did not have the benefit of winning the X Factor to give their career a boost. If you want to make a valid point about Joe's sales, rather than just gushing about him (as in 'He's very good looking'), you'd have to present an analysis of his sales and career progression compared to others which proved your point. As demonstrated above, even a quick examination of The Wanted's sales destroys your point about them. This is what rational, fact based argument is about, rather than just attacking the person making the argument.

Nope: (1) I always do people the honour of reading carefully what they write, even if I disagree with it and (2) to get back on topic, I'm not angry at all, in fact rather amused at the moment because I've just seen on Twitter that a Joe McElderry TV ad has aired. How do I know? Because Twitter is full of comments on it: AND ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE IS BAD (just search 'Joe McElderry' and you can see for yourself). It's not the comments themselves I find amusing, it's just that I think Universal Music have come up with a new form of advertising for Joe McElderry: the more they pay to air ads for his albums, the more people hate him and his music. The economic implications are interesting: maybe they only signed him on so they could claim him as a loss for tax purposes (see that great Mel Brooks film 'The Producers'). :lol:

Well: (1) You "know" nothing as that isn't what I want at all - my issue with Joe has nothing to do with whether he flops or succeeds; (2) My assessment of Joe's position is based on a detailed comparison of his whole career chart and sales record with his current performance - if you want to bring in other artists you would have to give us a similarly detailed analysis to make your point; (3) If you did read my Twitter page as you claim, you would know I do talk quite a lot about Katherine Jenkins (though as a person rather than in chart terms) but errrm: this is a Joe McElderry thread not a Katherine Jenkins thread! and (4) You say Will Young is an established artist: I wouldn't dispute that, but there is a whole issue about people like Joe getting to the top by means of a quick fix reality TV show versus people like Adele or Justin Bieber who build a career the slow and hard way in order to establish themselves. Whether the TV route to the top can work others will judge but I'm sure if anyone can get there it's the likes of Will and Olly rather than Joe but (5) Having said that, I'm not disputing Joe could earn a living doing what I am told are cheap (cheap to produce I mean) classical compilation albums: that's not an area of music I much like or care about but I guess people like Alfie Boe show you can be a real success doing that - if you like that sort of stuff, why not?

The trouble is that Joe is following a very consistent path here (for him that is): Classic was at No 71 in the charts last week and will most likely drop at least 10 places this week. Classic Christmas is following the same trajectory. Last Christmas seems doomed to fail when it comes out. You have only to compare Classic with Will Young's Echoes (released the same day) to see the difference between Joe and other artists: Echoes is still in the top 30 after 15 weeks and has stayed there every week except (I believe) one. Classic started off well then steadily dropped as per normal with Joe. Your point about there being higher sales at Christmas is a good one but is offset by the fact that this is a Christmas album: if Joe can't sell such an album now, what can he sell? It seems the bubble has burst for him, regardless of what type of album he does next. Having said that, a classical chart person made the point that maybe all this is irrelevant as you can make money in the classical charts with far fewer sales (as apparently the cost of making the albums is so much lower) so Joe could still earn a successful living even if he was not selling anything like as many albums as he used to. He is rumoured to be joining a West End musical (Jersey Boys) soon: whether true or not, presumably that sort of thing would be a viable option for him and maybe all comparisons with the likes of Olly Murs are by the by now. Instead we should be thinking Alfie Boe perhaps?

You must be right: (1) chart positions are determined by consumer sales, not retailer sales and (2) if a retailer buys too many albums and cannot sell them, it will get its fingers burned and be less likely to order albums from that artist again (assuming they are not bought on a sale or return basis like newspapers - if they were, of course, the label would have to buy all the unsold ones back). This has now happened to Joe: no doubt the label and the retailers thought he would repeat the success of Classic so 100,000 Classic Christmas albums were shipped out. In fact, the album is the worst performing of all, both in chart and sales terms. HMV and the rest are now set to have 50,000 unsold by next week and sales are likely to drop sharply from then on, as did those of Joe's first album. Also, unlike Joe's first two albums, this one will likely have no sales at all after 4 weeks. Joe's single from the album will likely bomb too. Next time round, will the retailers be buying 100,000 of Joe's 4th album - or any at all?

Absolutely right: the figures are in the Charts Forum/Sales thread and not even Jonmove can alter them! He is right that Universal shipped 100,000 out (hence the gold album claim) but this works against Joe as it proves that (unlike with Classic) there is no shortage of the album in the shops. Joe is now at No 27 in the midweeks and has reverted to the same form he showed with his 1st album which fell from 3 to 20 in its 1st two weeks. He is on target for around 15,000 sales this week: again, we've seen it all before (sales of the 1st album went from 39,400 to 12,400 in its first two weeks, the single from it - Ambitions - had the same pattern). In both chart and sales terms this is Joe's worst album and given it's a Christmas album being sold in the run up to Christmas, the implications are obvious.

Yes Joe DID tweet this sales figure 24 hours ago but it was FALSE and he still hasn't corrected it. You have only to go to the Charts thread to get the true picture - quite amazing that neither Joe nor Universal have corrected this - shows what contempt they hold his fans in. The true figures are that Joe's current album is clearly his WORST in terms of chart positions (Wide Awake debuted at No 3, Classic at No 2 and Classic Christmas at No 15) and first week sales (39,400 for WA, 35,600 for Classic, 34,000 for CC). Yes, Universal are no doubt hoping that Joe reaps the benefit of the Christmas rush over the next two weeks - but there's no sign of it so far and the album will not sell ANYTHING after Christmas so will likely be the worst selling, however well it does next week. Anyway, we will know tomorrow, from the first midweeks. What fans CAN be certain of now is that they can never again trust any sales info Joe McElderry posts.

I think today's midweeks prove you right on every point: Joe McElderry's new album, after all the hype of a nationwide tour, a primetime reality TV show (PSTOS), the national coverage of the Festival of Remembrance and tons of TV ads, is at No 13 in the charts! Put this in perspective: his 1st album (the one that flopped totally) debuted at No 3. His 2nd album (supposedly a great success) debuted at No 2 and was at No 2 in its first midweeks. For Joe to be only at No 13 surprised even me: I thought at first Universal were playing the market and hadn't shipped enough CD's out but they're boasting that they have sold 100,000 to retailers (so they can call Classic Christmas a 'gold' album) so it appears that people just aren't interested. This mirrors what I see on Twitter: every time a Joe TV ad airs, most responses are VERY negative, indeed often unprintable. I assume Universal are counting on a massive buying spree this weekend: it's unprecedented for Joe to be this low in the charts at this stage and if he doesn't pull something spectacular out this week I can't see much future as he will have flopped at pop AND classical. BTW: fans are saying the fact Joe has sold 200,000 of his 2nd album Classic after 14 weeks shows he's now a great success. Why? Shayne Ward sold that many copies of his 1st CD in its FIRST WEEK yet he's seen as a flop! Time for reality to hit Joe and his deluded fans I think, and not before time. :D :D :D