John_Squire

Not as good as first album singles but probably better than second album singles. Probably peak around number 12. I don't think the album will make #1 this time, though; if it does, I can see it falling very quickly.

It would be stupid to ban front-loaded singles. For a start, U2 would never have knocked Bryan Adams off number 1 had a no front loading rule been in place. Second - I think the argument is irrelevant now. Ten years ago when many/most number 1s as well as number 2s and 3s peaked then bombed - then maybe there would be justification (though I don't think so.) Now, though, even the number 30-odds often hang around - take Mumford and Sons as an example. A chart run like Lonestar's 'Amazed' would now be commonplace. JLS may be front loaded and have a short chart run compared to other number 1s, but not compared to McFly's 1-20-39 or even (from 2000) Oasis' 1-4-17-38, and the Manic Street Preachers' 1-4-20-39. Furthermore, even when most #1s debut at #1 (as in 2000/01), then not all sink straight away. Examples: Eminem and Ronan Keating hung around the top 10. Spiller and Madonna sank quite quickly but hung around the 20s/30s for ages. The only major examples of front-loaded big hits tend to be pop now: JLS, Pixie Lott, The Wanted. You could include Cheryl Cole, but I'd argue she stuck around with FFTL and sold a lot after the huge first week sales anyway. So, it would be banning pop hits, essentially. Finally, give indie bands a break! The only way a guitar band could enjoy a big hit chart-wise was from front-loaded sales. With such genres (indie/rock/whatever) finding it hard to chart nowadays, they need front-loading more than ever! (Except if you're Kings Of Leon or Snow Patrol.) PS The premise of a non-number 1 being year end number 1 isn't so shocking IMO. Natalie Imbruglia and Wham could well have done it, a couple of years either way. Even Robbie's Angels, a number 4.

Thought I'd make a topic as I've been listening to a lot of 'em recently. f*** me, they're good though, aren't they. Now I imagine that on this forum there are going to be a fair number of fans, and equally plenty of people who can see the merits of the group even if they personally don't like them. I think that the general perception of ABBA, though, undervalues them - they're seen as naff, or simply a load of old crap, by many people. I'm 20 and there are many people I know, around my age, who will happily bum so-so rock music from the 70s but are disdainful towards ABBA. But why? I know the image doesn't help (hen parties, people's aunties/mums/grans, the costumes, Mamma Mia etc etc etc), nor the most popular, overplayed hits. Mamma Mia, Dancing Queen and Waterloo are certainly not anywhere near as good as many other ABBA tracks. Although Dancing Queen is an astonishingly well-produced piece of pop music. Going through from early 76 when they really took off: Arrival Not a bad album and their biggest (studio album.) Not their best though. The problem with a lot of earlier ABBA is poor lyrics. I don't mean that their English was bad - it's always brilliant - and even the early lyrics are ofen quite clever. But 'Dum Dum Diddle'. Seriously? I read somewhere that it was a case of making the lyrics fit the tune a lot of the time, but that's no excuse!!! The triteness of the lyrics spoils that particular song, which musically and vocally is very good. Of course on the same album you have the sublime 'Knowing Me, Knowing You' which is easily one of the best UK number ones ever, not simply ABBA songs. 'Tiger' is good musically if rather sinister lyrically, Agnetha's vocals are amongst her best on the album. Not bad, but it got better. The Album In my opinion the first side stands up to any one side of any 70s album if not any album. The Name of the Game, that other classic ABBA UK #1, so well-produced. Eagle, the weakest track on the side, but imagine it with a male vocal on a soft-rock album from America and it'd be a well-regarded staple even now. It's underrated because it's ABBA. One Man, One Woman - great lyric, great guitar. Take A Chance On Me, truly great bubblegum pop. Second side not as strong - not at all - but good. They're getting better... Voulez-Vous And they're still getting better. What a good album this is! The only problem (a problem which hinders their albums 'til the final one) is putting the dud tracks in the middle of sides. As in, 'I Have A Dream' here - it doesn't fit with the rest of side 1, and is the worst track on the album (it's still a well-crafted song though.) Also, though it's good, Chiquitita is out of place haflway through side 2. But apart from them - whoa! There were four UK singles off this album (five with the double A) and they were the worst four tracks, to be honest (Angeleyes aside.) They missed a trick with 'If It Wasn't For The Nights', the track is practically perfect and is the single best Abba song not to be a single. Super Trouper Highs and lows here - they have a third great #1, TWTIA, and there's Lay All Your Love On Me, the underrated Me And I, and the brash On and On and On which would have fitted in on Voulez-Vous. But then you have Happy New Year right in the middle of the album. Yeah, it's OK, but y'know. I like The Piper, but it's very twee and again, not great in the middle of side 2. And the closing track is actually quite good, but doesn't suit the overall nature of the album (if anything, more suited to The Visitors.) Good, but not great. The Visitors But boy, is this one great. It's so dark, so deep, so haunting, very well produced, no duffers in the middle (Two For The Price Of One is as close as it gets, and that's really very good), and whilst not really an album filled with pop hits excepting One of Us - and the massively underrated Head over Heels, every track is a standout, especially on side 1. And late ABBA produced so many fine tracks that flopped - TDBYC, Under Attack - and brilliant B-sides. So, yeah. Opinions?

Tenuous top 10: 1. James and the Cold Gun 2. L'Amour Looks Something Like You 3. Saxophone Song 4. Army Dreamers 5. Babooshka 6. Running Up That Hill 7. Feel It 8. Them Heavy People 9. Delius 10. Pi Need to properly get into second side of Aerial, played it a few times but never totally immersed myself.

If you start counting people who were part of various acts then there must be some rapper who breaks Sash's record. There have been a fair few rap artists who peaked at 2 - Pras (w/o Fugees), Mase, until recently Snoop Dogg, Busta Rhymes, Jay-Z. And of course people who featured on #2s by artists who have had number ones.

First thoughts were a chart run something like 18-37-50s-60s-out, if songs still do that. Maybe not though, but I can't see her being a big success this time around, a shame but it's inevitable. Could scrape low top 10 a la Gabriella Cilmi but I doubt I'll be eating my words much. Top 20 shoe-in.

Snoop Dogg - Snoop Dogg (or Snooooooooooooooooooop Dogg) and arguably What's My Name? (and Tha Doggfather??)

Firstly: WTF? Secondly: I think flops following number 1 hits that aren't the debut single off an album (e.g. Bedingfield's Friday, or Pixie if you include top 15s as a flop), aren't as 'floppy' since there's usually 'diminishing returns' with most artists, it's surely more surprising that (example) Bedingfield even had a 3rd number one after 4 singles and a big album.

Love Army Dreamers. Never For Ever is my second fave.

The Kick Inside is my favourite. One of the best debuts ever. There's just something about it.

'All The Things She Said', 'Breathe' and 'Crazy In Love' please. Oh, and maybe Usher's 'Yeah' too! Thanks

I'd be happy with Corinne (way better than expected), the XX, or Laura Marling. Not heard The Villagers. Hope Dizzee doesn't win it, or Weller.

Good Charlotte's 'Lifestyles'...: 13-20-8, very unusual in 2003. Another one in '03 was Sean Paul's Get Busy: 7 weeks top 20 (6 top 10?) then left the 40, presumably due to deletion.

And :o at Will Smith spending 19 weeks top 40! 2005 did have some long-runners though. Daniel Powter for one, who again lost loads of sales: probably would have done 500-600k nowadays.

That's really interesting. vidcapper, if you have time, could you possibly do the same for some of the other hits that I mentioned? The point about illegal downloads is valid. Taking Orson again: including illegal downloads I would imagine that 435k people probably did 'buy' it, maybe more. I don't know how much illegal downloads 'sell' (does anyone?) but I would imagine they increased the 'sales' of some songs a great deal: ironically, probably songs that are already very popular (pop/r'n'b/rap/some dance), as stuff like rock/indie/more alternative things would be more likely to have been bought on physical back in 2003-07. If illegal downloads are still as big as 03-07 period, then theoretically couldn't Gaga, BEPs, KOL, etc, be selling closer to 2m each if the sales were counted? I imagine then that illegal downloads aren't quite as prevalent as they were - maybe people have more faith in itunes, etc, and don't mind paying now? Or perhaps kids that are becoming teenagers now and have always had the internet are happy enough to pay for a download like their older siblings/ parents did with cds and vinyl?

Gordon Haskell and No Doubt: both were #2 behind $h!t songs and both spend only 4 weeks top 40. Vanessa Carlton's 'A Thousand Miles' was quite good - 4 weeks at 18. The Feeling did the same four straight weeks at #16 I think.

Well, I suppose if you look at the charts alone, AC/DC are in their best ever era - 2 UK album chart #1s in a row.

Oh, I hope it's brilliant. I think it will grow on me.

I'm surprised they haven't split up.

As for ages: I'm 20 and could probably hold my own on a lot of genres, going back to the mid-60s! I think if you go back far enough, what's popular seems better than what's popular now. A top three from, say, 1965, 1966, is likely to be better than a top 3 from 2010. Of course, it's all opinion. The mid-sixties had their fair share of novelty, covers, and flashes-in-the-pan. And a year I really like in terms of charts and popularity - 2000 - is regularly derided for its quality. But, 'back in the day', artists that still mean a lot, in terms of nostalgia or legacy, and actual talent, were popular. Beatles (obviously). Abba - set the trends for all bubblegum pop, via SAW: $h!tloads of #1s. The Smiths, the biggest indie band ever, had a #1 and three #2 studio albums. Etc. Acts that are popular now - and indeed over the last ten years - don't tend to be acts that are going to be matching these older acts in terms of influence or awed memories. Acts that are influential like the Libertines sold relatively poorly and often did badly chart wise.

Not great. I only really like 1, 14, 16, 29 and 37, and 5/40 is pretty low for me on a retro chart. I don't know some of the tracks that I may like, though, such as the Altered Images one.

I really like it. I know it's almost sacrilege to many Bush fans but I don't rate Hounds of Love as her best album at all, having said that, this track is actually sublime.

Most of Kate Bush's 'The Kick Inside' Abba's 'When I Kissed The Teacher' Smiths 'Headmaster Ritual'

I bought 'Rumours' for its classic status too. I was however extremely impressed and now, years later on, I still like it. I think 'Fleetwood Mac' (the 1975 one) is very overlooked and is almost as strong as Rumours: it has the brilliant Rhiannon on it for a start. To be honest, I think Fleetwood Mac are bloody brilliant. Appreciate their musical craftsmanship if nothing else.

Ah, Frontier Psychiatrist :wub: Don't Falter by Mint Royale's quite cool.