GRIMLY FIENDISH

Free Trade is different to Capitalism.... Capitalists create inequalities and stack the market in their favour, free traders are more honest.... Try reading your Adam Smith sometime, he knew the difference between Trade and unfettered Capitalism.... Cuba's a pretty successful society... And would be a lot more successful if the fukkin Americans would stop trying to undermine it.... Same for Venezuela, Bolivia, etc.... America is the worst example of Capitalist scum on Earth....

Wouldn't be at all surprised if there are some people making money off the US being down-graded.... I think we should follow the money, and see if any Republicans or their cronies are coining it in this coming week..... <_< Capitalism is evil, simple as....

I would tend to agree, their involvement in the 2008 banking crisis was incredibly dubious... They were being paid by the very financial institutions whose products they were rating.... Frankly, they sound plain crooked in a way.....

http://www.standardandpoors.com/servlet/Bl...dervalue3=UTF-8 Here's the link to the full text of the Standards and Poor adjustment..... I have to wonder about the Ratings Agency credibility though, wasn't it this lot who were saying that the Sub-Prime mortgage/CDO market and the Icelandic banks were AAA investments....?? You'll have to forgive my skepticism that these "rating agencies" really have anyone's interests other than their own at heart.....

Anyway, I think now with the down-grade of the US, which has absolutely been caused by The Republicans and their power-plays in Washington, Obama now has to come out fighting and stop trying to appease these psychos..... At the end of the day, it's the Republicans' fault that this down-grade has happened.....

Roosevelt met with a LOT of hostility from the Left and Right political camps, and back then you had a guy called J Randolph Hearst who was basically the equivalent of Rupert Murdoch... Dont imagine just because it was the 1930s that there wouldn't have been lots of pressures brought to bear on him... And, please, dont bleat to me how hard Nu Labor had it and how they wouldn't be able to do this or that.... What the fukk is Tony B-Liar doing these days...? I'll tell you what he's doing, he's on the board of J P Morgan, so let's not kid ourselves where his bread was really buttered.....

jERhPMzqSaE AAA-rmageddon..... :mellow:

It may be "understandable", but Labour should have taken the flak, they had a massive majority in '97 and likely could've just about forced any bill through that they wanted to.... TBH, I think it was cowardice, and they just did what Wall Street told them... New Labour allowed the problem to get worse, and the unforgiveable mistakes that Brown made compounded it , taking away regulartory powers from the Bank of England and forming the terminally hopeless FSA, and then selling our gold reserves.... Both were beyond stupid.... Do you think FDR cared how much flak he took when he reformed the banks...? No, he didn't, he got on with it because he was a real leader, not a shiny suit full of piss and hot air like B-Liar and Sca-Moron....

America had better get ready to clench its butt-cheeks..... US loses AAA credit rating after S&P downgrade Source BBC One of the top credit rating agencies, Standard & Poor's, has downgraded the United States' top-notch AAA rating for the first time ever. S&P cut the long-term US rating by one notch to AA+ with a negative outlook, citing concerns about budget deficits. The agency said the deficit reduction plan passed by the US Congress on Tuesday did not go far enough. Washington was locked in months of acrimonious partisan bickering over a bill to raise the US debt ceiling. A US treasury department spokesman said of the S&P analysis: "A judgment flawed by a $2 trillion [£1.2 trillion] error speaks for itself." He did not offer any immediate explanation. But earlier, as rumours swirled about the downgrade on Friday evening, officials in Washington were telling US media that S&P's sums were deeply flawed. The downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened” The unnamed sources were quoted as saying that a treasury official had spotted a $2tn mistake in the agency's report. John Chambers, chairman of S&P's sovereign ratings committee, told CNN that the US could have averted a downgrade if it had resolved its congressional stalemate earlier. "The first thing it could have done is raise the debt ceiling in a timely matter so the debate would have been avoided to begin with," he said. The other two major credit rating agencies, Moody's and Fitch, said on Friday night they had no immediate plans to follow S&P in taking the US off their lists of risk-free borrowers. The S&P announcement comes after a week of turmoil on global stock markets not seen since the days of the 2008 economic crisis. Correspondents say the downgrade could erode global investors' confidence in the world's largest economy, which is already struggling with huge debts, unemployment of 9.1%, and beset by fears of a possible double-dip recession. S&P had threatened the downgrade if the US could not agree to cut its federal debt by at least $4 trillion over the next decade. Instead, the bill passed by Congress on Tuesday envisages $2.1tn in savings over 10 years. S&P said the Republicans and Democrats had only been able to agree "relatively modest savings", which fell "well short" of what had been envisaged. The agency also noted that the legislation delegates the lion's share of savings to a bipartisan committee, which must report back to Congress in November on where the axe should fall. The bill - which also raises the federal debt limit by up to $2.4tn, from $14.3tn, over a decade - was passed on Tuesday just hours before the expiry of a deadline to raise the US borrowing limit . S&P said in its report issued late on Friday: "The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilise the government's medium-term debt dynamics. "More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges." The agency said it might lower the US long-term rating another notch to AA within the next two years if its deficit reduction measures were deemed inadequate. S&P noted that the bill passed by Congress this week did not include new revenues - Republicans had staunchly opposed President Barack Obama's calls for tax rises to help pay off America's deficit. The credit agency also noted that the legislation contained only minor policy changes to Medicare, an entitlement programme dear to Democrats. "The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed," it added. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh dear..... Oh dear oh dear oh dear......... :mellow:

Growth isn't going to come if you cut and make hundreds of thousands of people redundant though, is it....? You, the Tories and the Republicans fail to understand the first rule of Keynsian economics - in a recession, when people stop spending, the government needs to continue spending in order to create the jobs, get people paying taxes and get them contributing to the economy... THAT is the only way Growth happens in a recession/depression state that we have now.... The State must do what appears to be counter-intuitive.... Of course, in the 1930s, you didn't have this bullshit ECB nonsense or the IMF breathing down your neck in order to basically destroy the ability of sovereign nations to determine their own fiscal policy.... I've always been Pro-European, but this form of European integration is a sick joke, because it's basically French and German banks in cahoots with the IMF and the ECB to destroy sovereign nations like the PIIGS...... Of course they tried their tricks on Iceland, but Iceland told them where to stick it, because they're not beholden to the Eurozone... Good for Iceland.....

The amount that people would lose from allowing banks to fail is exponentially less than they amount every single man, woman and child has to bear due to continually bailing out banks.... I've actually done some research into this, so, no, I dont consider it barking mad in principle, I consider allowing this situation with banks that are "too big to fail" and potentially future endless bail-outs, which the tax-payer is burdened with, to be utterly f**king barking mad, and so did Obama, until he sold out every single good principle he ever had and allowed Wall Street and The Republicans to dictate his policies..... In fact, a certain George Osborne was going to do something about it as well, until his chums in the City tapped him on the shoulder..... There's actually a hell of a lot of economists out there that agree with me....

I'm very dubious about nationalising banks, that effectively means that the tax-payer is under-writing them..... But I suppose it would ensure that we'd actually get access to a true picture of what their balance sheets actually are and it might actually shatter the Shadow Banking system too (which is the source of a lot of the problems).... So, if that could be a possible outcome, I may be persuaded to go along with fully nationalised banks....

Never said he wasn't, but I'm entitled to call him a twat...... -_-

Agreed.. You guys need to get yourselves out the Euro, go back to the punt and do whatever it is you need to do.... Preferably do an "Iceland" and tell the German and French banks to fukk off......

Now, you're just contradicting yourself, a few posts back you were praising Sca-Moron and the Coalition, now you're agreeing with me that they're liars...... :lol: :lol:

I wouldn't say the bonus situation is cliche.... Of course, this is what the Bob Diamonds and Ben Bernankes of the world would try to say that the argument about bonuses is though.... Is nationalization going to help...? The taxpayer bailed out Lloyds group and that's just posted losses of over £2billion.... Naaaah, I think the time has come to break up the big banks into retail and investment and let the investment banks who cant make the grade fail.....

Spot on... Chris, Sky News is FULL OF SH"T... If you want the full story I suggest watching the guys who give you facts - Russia Today, and in particular Max Keiser, who's about the only one who's actually telling it straight... Sky News, are you kidding me...?? I dont actually have an "anti government agenda", i've got an "anti-lying b/astard agenda", it just so happens that ALL Governments seem to be lying b/astards..... Well, if they weren't lying b/astards, I wouldn't be against them..... Simples....

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG..... Austerity is the very thing that will make it worse... It doesn't work, simple as... Austerity Cuts have been tried in Ireland and Greece, and it is a failed policy, because both are in a worse position.... What needs to be done is to STOP BAILING OUT THE F/UCKING BANKS AND LET THEM FAIL...... This situation with taxpayers bailing out banks has to come to an end, at the end of the Wall Street Crash, hundreds of banks failed, and nobody stopped them from failing, thie difference is that now we allow this ridiculous situation where the tax-payer carries all the risk and the banks take all the profit, this is simply unsustainable....

Dude, things change, and events take over. They should be back here because today that markets absolutely f/ucking tanked..... At the very least, Osborne should be back here....

You dont think a potential Eurozone economic melt-down with countries defaulting and going into economic free-fall, the fact that hundreds of millions are being wiped off of shares in the space of 24 hours, and the current situation in the US is a "real crisis"... Fukk off Chris and go back to bed, you know nothing about what's going on in the world, seriously dude, there's more to world affairs than "terrorist attacks", which can be dealt with relatively quickly compared to economic problems which have effects that last for years..... -_-

Constituency Events and holidays are hardly as important as a full-on, EU-wide and Global economic melt-down... Frankly, they need to get their arses back from wherever they are.....

Pretty much totally agree with what is being said here.... The "broken bone" analogy is a good one tbh... Obama has learned absolutely NOTHING from how FDR handled the Great Depression of the 1930s, he's a gutless, fukking coward who tried to appease the bankers and the fascist, idiotic Tea Party and now millions of ordinary Americans have to pay the price for his stupidity... Could you imagine FDR appeasing the likes of Herbert Hoover and the Republicans and the bankers who caused the Wall St Crash???? HELL NO, he put hundreds of bankers in jail and passed strict banking regulations and formed the SEC, who are now practically toothless because of Reagan and the Neo-Libs of the 1980s.....

TBH, I find that excuse rather tedious.... yes, obviously Politicians are entitled to a holiday, blah, blah, whatever.... But, I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't stagger things... The school Summer Hols are something like, what, six weeks...? Gimme a break dude, they dont have to be out of the country ALL at the same time, I dont think it's too much to ask that ONE of the major players be in the country when the sort of serious sh"t that's been hitting the economy recently is going on.... Seriously, Suedehead, you're an intelligent guy, yet you persist in making excuses for these c'unts.....

Government fully functioning, says Hague Source - BBC News The UK government is "fully functioning" in the midst of the eurozone crisis despite David Cameron and George Osborne being on holiday, William Hague has said. The prime minister and chancellor have been criticised for both being on holiday as share prices fall amid concerns for the global economy. But Foreign Secretary Mr Hague said the government was "operating 24/7". Labour said the coalition needed to show more "leadership" on the economy. Mr Cameron spoke by telephone to the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King, on Friday morning, the BBC has learned. European stock markets have continued to fall, with investors worried about both the eurozone debt crisis and the weak US economy. This comes as fears over the ability of governments to pay their debts - which have led to Greece, the Irish Republic and Portugal already being bailed out - have spread to Spain and Italy. A Daily Mirror headline suggests Mr Cameron, Mr Osborne and Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg - all abroad on holiday - have "gone AWOL" during the crisis. I don't begrudge anyone a holiday, but I think it's extraordinary that they are all away on holiday at the same time” Labour's former Deputy Prime Minister Lord Prescott has launched a Twitter campaign to urge senior government figures to return to the UK. But Mr Hague, the most senior minister currently in the UK, said: "The government is operating 24 hours a day. We are not in the 18th Century. Of course everyone is constantly in touch... "The government is fully functioning in response to this crisis and anything else that's happening in the world." Mr Hague also said: "We're constantly monitoring the situation and we're in close touch with our European and American counterparts. "The chancellor and and the prime minister are getting constant updates. "The crucial thing now is for eurozone governments to deliver on what they promised a few weeks ago. The Spanish and Italian governments must show they have credible plans to deal with their debts and to make their economies competitive. "Even though we're not immune from these international pressures we've shown in the UK that economic credibility can be earned by taking tough decisions." For Labour, shadow Treasury minister Angela Eagle said: "What we need now is leadership from our politicians. "I don't begrudge anyone a holiday, but I think it's extraordinary that the prime minister, the deputy prime minister and the chancellor are all away on holiday at the same time. "I think they could have ensured that there was somebody who has the economy at the top of their job description actually on duty all the time throughout the summer." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, here we have it... The PM, Deputy PM and the Chancellor all off abroad on their hols at the same time.... Errr, who's minding the store, exactly, when we have a crisis in the Eurozone and the US neck-deep in a "Debt" crisis too...? And here was me thinking that the DEPUTY PM should actually be in the country when the PM is on his hols... It's all very well for them to say "oh, but we're all still in touch", somehow I dont think you can navigate a country through these incredibly tricky times via e-mail or Twitter guys, I think at least ONE of you has to be here at any one time..... Most other organisations have STAGGERED breaks..... Like, duuuuuhhhhh

Obama seriously has to rethink his strategy for sure... All his appeasement of the Republicans and Tea-baggers has gotten him is more vilification and criticism.. From the Right, as well as from the Left.... Trying to curry favour with people who hate you whatever you do, and then just caving in, just isn't going to work, and the American people deserve better than a President who's just going to cave...