milly

So, basically you're grasping at straws, cause you have absolutely no evidence to support your claimings and, instead, you're just finding any excuse to denigrate Gary. Howard and Mark are still in the band and, when you have 3 members, it's kind of hard to pinpoint which one of them is to blame for the other 2 leaving, don't you think? (that is, admitting that the other 2 left because of someone else in the band, which, again, is just your UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTION). But feel free to come with factual arguments for once instead of sarcastic personal opinions! You do realize that your statements reduce Mark and Howard to some poor, whimpy, willess, retarded muppets who don't dare oppose their mighty master? If that would be the case and they're that stupid, then they deserve what they're getting, wouldn't you agree?

Well, I'm with Jay: I hate the impact streaming has on charts. And I hate whomever invented streaming :angry: I agree that streaming should be included in some way, in order to keep up with times, but the ratio is completely disproportionate. Streaming a song does not show the same interest and commitment as an actual sale. You can stream something out of curiosity or even boredom, but, when you pay for something, it's because you want to have that thing and you made a decision in that sense. I hope Cry manages to stay in the sales chart long enough for it to build some decent streaming. It's such and addictive and infectious song it deserves to chart more than decently.

Yes, the chart position is determined by sales + streaming (100 streams=1 sale; only 10 streams/day/person are taken into account). Sales include iTunes, Amazon, HMV and others sources, but mainly iTunes, in the case of singles. Apparently, TT are doing fine on the iTunes sales front (although the song's popularity is decreasing and it will soon fall on the 5th place, if it doesn't pick up), the problem lies with streaming. TT fans are not exactly the type to stream singles or albums and Sigma fans would rather let the single flop than buy or stream anything done by TT. But I think it's a bit exaggerated to think that, should Cry remain in top 5 on iTunes till Thursday, it wouldn't chart in top 20 - that would mean that streaming counts more than actual sales. I think, at this point, it's safe to say that, if Cry does chart decently, it will be mostly down to TT fans. Sigma fans have made their opinion more than clear about this collab and its output. However, I don't believe the single is doing anywhere near bad. Let's not forget that, usually, all of TT's singles have benefitted from an XF performance, seen by millions of viewers, and a few weeks of airplay + a video. This time around, all they had was the news of a new single and a few radio plays. Justin Timberlake performed his single on Eurovision and he still hasn't managed to top the charts - although, in my opinion, his song is better than Drake's. Considering all this, no 4 on iTunes and 4-5 on Amazon is incredible. There are artists whose singles get daily R1 and R2 plays and still don't manage to break top 10 on iTunes. We have to wait and see if R1 and R2 playlist Cry next week. If the song doesn't pick up once it's playlisted, then we can start worrying.

I wasn't referring necessarily to you, Cat, when I said I get the feeling people are blaming Gary for Mark and Howard's absence from Cry and other tracks. But I did see comments saying that Cry is yet another "vanity project" for Gary and people did say, on this forum, that "this is no way to treat your bandmates". Hence, my conclusion that some fans are indeed blaming Gary. As for the promotion, I have the same questions as you. Since Sigma and TT are on different labels, it would be interesting to know who's in charge of promoting the single. The logical answer would be Sigma's label, cause I imagine Cry will feature on their album. But I guess the promotion is also a problem for the bands' management. If TT's management were to secure a promotional slot on tv, I doubt Sigma would refuse to appear, cause they seem quite eager to get that no 1.

Music-wise, though, nobody has diminished Mark and Howard here, have they? Dylan has gone over board to defend them when their own fans were calling them earrings and lettuce and tomatoes. I still don't understand towards whom your insatisfaction is aimed. Is it Gary or Sigma or the label? Cause the general tone of this discussion points towards the fact you're all blaming Gary because Mark and Howard are not more prominent on Cry. And, if you all believe Mark and Howard are not happy with the situation, why do you think they put up with it? PS: You're right, Dylan about the DS thread :)

I still find the Tulisa insult hilarious after all this time :D It did show Gary's character, but in a good light, imo. If that was the worse he could come up with when provoked and brought to the edge, then he's a teddy bear. His reaction was quite innocent and reminded me of that of a child. "You are a terrible mentor, you are ruining it for him, you should take the blame!", "You have fag ash breath!" - that was epic :D I used to read the DS XF thread when Gary was on the show and people's opinions were similar to those on Popjustice. But I guess some of the posters are the same. I hope the video for Cry gets released this week and the boys get some promotional slots. Is there any tv show they could perform on at this time of the year?

Seriously? They dislike him because of a joke aimed at Geri and because of Tulisa? Wow... PS: I finally got through that SISYL thread. In the end, haters are gonna hate and Gary won when he sold 700k copies of his "boring, dull" album. Personally, I'd rather be bored by Gary than listen to Rihanna or Beyonce's music.

That's what I said as well :D The Popjustice and DS forums aren't for me, I'm quite passionate about what I like and I'd get too often the urge to strangle some people :D With Cry - and any future singles for that matter -, it's all about promotion. I'd say they are incredibly lucky to be doing as well as they are right now considering they've only had a few plays and 0 promotion. They need to upload the video as soon as possible and start promoting the song, cause it has all the ingredients to be a success. From what I've seen, Brasilian radios are already on board with the single and I expect European stations to be playing along too, if it becomes a hit in UK.

I don't have a problem with other people's opinions, my problem is with those posters that pretend to be TT fans and have Gary's pic as their avatar, but who don't miss any opportunity to throw dirt at him.

Dylan, if you this the comments on this forum are bizarre, you should see those on Popujustice. I've been left wondering whether those people really are fans, cause they sound worse than the detractors: http://forum.popjustice.com/threads/take-t...s.35360/page-25

Regarding Cry, it needs airplay urgently, cause it's starting to drop in popularity, which means it could end up at 5 by tomorrow.

What way is that? And why is Gary responsible for this? What should he have said? "No, I do not want to take lead vocals, please, Mark, be my guest!"?!! It's this sort of comments that I don't understand. I completely agree with you, Dylan. I don't want to see TT disband, but, sometimes, "fans" ' reactions make me wish this would happen for a short time, just so they can test their theories. Glad to see we're not alone in our views, Jay :) I don't have a problem with people having different opinions, but I like to see those opinions strongly supported by evidence. When I see suppositions of the kind "oh, look, another vanity project for Gary!" or "Gary imposed his will on the others once again!", when there's absolutely nothing to support such statements, I get annoyed. If anything, from LBDS, the only member of the band with a strong will appeared to be Mark - hence Gary telling him "you'll never be happy unless you've done it yourself". People conveniently forget that Gary stepped aside on Progress and let everyone else take the lead. Gary's fans didn't throw a tantrum then, claiming that he was just an "earring" or someone else's backing singer, even though they had enough reasons to do it.

Had Patience been a Gary project, it probably wouldn't have done as well as it did, but not because Patience isn't an extremely good pop song, but because of its association with Gary. Had it been released as an anonymous track, on radio, it would have exploded, just like it did with TT. People needed to see the 2005 documentary to realize how unfair they had treated Gary. Without that documentary, anything Gary would have released would have flopped, including RTW. So, in that respect, you are right, Kath. But it's all about context, let's not forget that! Going by some of the comments on these forums, you'd think Gary is some cold blooded, calculated monster! Jeez! You know what, I'd actually prefer it if Gary left TT and all the other boys were free to continue as they please. Then we'd see if they really can carry the TT brand. I'm sure Gary wouldn't be out of work for the near future, so, for Gary's fans, it's all the same if he stays in TT or not. Personally, I've loved way more his solo projects lately than the ones with TT - although I really enjoyed III and think it's one of the best TT albums. The question is: would it be the same for Mark and Howard's fans? If it were up to me, TT would continue in this formula til they dropped dead, but, when I see so many unfair comments targeting Gary unjustly, I really wish they did this little experiment. I just fear none of the people protesting at the moment would really like the outcome.

Dylan, you are being very diplomatic and unnecessarily fair, when the opposite party isn't showing the same courtesy. If this is the terms we're discussing in, then why not admit once and for all that Mark and Howard, but Mark especially, owed Gary to "bring him back in the public eye"? They would have remained forever anonymous had it not been for Gary's talent and Nigel building TT AROUND GB. As soon as TT was over, Mark was walking all over Gary, mocking him publicly with Robbie, yet Gary was still generous enough to call him a friend and to help him write 4 Minute Warning, the only solo song Mark still plays. Even the 2nd time around, Mark and Howard wouldn't have enjoyed any lasting success, had it not been for Gary. If people overlooked Mark's cheating scandal and Howard's domestic infidelities and issues and bribery attempts - and why not, even the tax scandal -, it was because of Gary's popularity. So, I say that, if they accept this "undignified" position they're in, as you put it, it's because they're aware of how much they owe Gary. Is there something Gary isn't to blame for? I still don't understand why he's taking the punches for what Mark and Howard do. And, at the end of the day, when Mark and Howard's fans regard them as "lettuce and tomatoes", while Gary is being perceived as the "bacon", then what are we even fighting about? By your own admission, Gary is the main attraction, while the others are just side flavors. PS: Jay knew when to jump ship with the money. As far as I'm concerned, his morality is in question even moreso than Mark's and Howard's. But that's just me.

Well, if people keep buying the sandwich even if it's mislabelled, then who is to blame? :P

I don't understand where this misconception that upbeat equals cheery comes from. The song has quite some dark undertones and the upbeat chorus only emphasizes a certain frenzy associated with intense feelings. From my point of view, it works quite well and the song is very well written. I can see that most objections come from people who'd like to hear Mark or Howard more. Outside their fanbase, I doubt anyone cares too much about this aspect - all people care about is whether they like a song or not. And, so far, the general public seems to be enjoying the single. I'm a bit tired of Gary getting the grief for Mark and Howard being left out. I sincerely doubt he's proclaiming himself the lead singer and taking the lead vocals by force or tyranny. And blaming Gary for Robbie leaving the band in the 90s...well, I think some people need reminding that Gary was the only one who had the courage to stand up to Nigel and who protested when Robbie wasn't being credited for the rap on Sure. I swear I get the feeling, sometimes, that being more talented than others is a crime nowadays and it's our duty to help others try to better themselves instead of supporting those who are already better.

The song is doing amazingly well, considering it's only been played 5 times: 3 times by R1 or twice by R2: http://comparemyradio.com/tracks/Sigma/Cry_(feat._Take_That)

Cry is the record of the week starting today on Radio 2, which means they will playlist it for sure. It remains to be seen whether R1 and Capital will do the same. It looks like Cry will get to #3 on iTunes today, which makes me really happy, cause it means people are growing to like the song and it increases its chances of charting high come next Friday. I have listened to Cry lots of times already and I still haven't got bored. For me, it has all the ingredients of a hit. I wouldn't mind 2 or 3 tracks in this style on the next TT album. It's actually a direction I enjoy.

For the artists who released their singles in the previous weeks, only this week's sales (from today till Thursday) count for next week's chart. But they do have the advantage of having bigger streaming numbers, something TT don't have. Even if TT - by some miracle - get to no 1 on iTunes and stay there till Thursday, they might still not be no 1 in the official chart on Friday if their streaming is poor. We'll have to wait for the first mid-weeks to see how much they've sold so far. I'm glad to see the song is rising in popularity and I think it might even overtake Drake on iTunes. Agree with everything you said, Dylan.

Nobody looking out to collab with Take That would want anyone other than Gary on the lead vocals. Granted, Mark and Howard's voices could have been put to better use, but, in the end, the song sounds great and that benefits both TT and Sigma, as evidenced by the iTunes position. I hadn't even known about the twitter spats. I just had a look and I have to admit I liked Sigma's replies to those idiots. I don't understand the comparisons with Glitterball or Coming Home. Yes, it's the same structure, just like all pop songs have the same structure. That doesn't mean all the songs sound the same. Cry has a distinct gospel sound that lacks from all the previous Sigma tracks.

I'd be happy with a top 10. Top 5 would be amazing, but the streaming is gonna be a problem. I truly believe the song will be all over radios very soon, cause it's infectious. Kath, Mark and Howard are big boys. Surely if they didn't like being put in this position, they wouldn't accept it. Nobody's forcing them do anything against their will.

So, it's a festival?

I did hear the news and it seems something important, but could someone explain to me, please, what this Big Weekend is? Is it some sort of Live Lounge or a gtig or what? Ok, Jay or Joe or whoever posted about Popjustice stirred my interest, so I had a quick look at the TT thread. I don't advise any Gary fans to go there :) It seems like there's a bunch of bitter Mark fans, who basically like anything Mark does and dislike anything Gary does. And, no surprise, they hate the fact that Gary has lead vocals on Cry. I also think they're not entirely sane, cause they're saying Gary sounds bad. If there's something that stands out on Cry are exactly Gary's vocals, something most people picked up on. But then again, "fans" on Popjustice like Hey Boy, so....

I don't understand some people saying the single is doing fine for now because people are curious to hear TT on a dance track. TT have started with dance music, so this isn't exactly a novelty :/ I just hope TT can overtake Beyonce and Drake; it seems unlikely for now. On merits alone, though, Cry deserves to be no 1.

Behind the scenes: https://player.vimeo.com/video/167306320