dylandog

Pippa, if I recall correctly they wanted a different sound for Progress to represent Rob's return. Gary and Rob were probably the primary movers with Mark dipping in with ideas. The impression I got from the documentary was that Jay and Howard took a back seat- and I clearly remember Jay having a rather awkward conversation with Rob about the lyrics for Eight Letters. Gary apparently wrote all the music before there were any lyrics and there is some beautiful music hidden in both Progress and Progressed. The intro to Wait for example, is really lovely. With Stuart Price as producer a different sound was always on the cards. I hate the distorted sound on a lot of their recent music. Someone may be able to tell me otherwise but I'm sure Mark is the primary mover re this as he apparently likes this kind of sound. Unfortunately for them I'm not sure their fan base feel the same. A low point for me was the release of Hey Boy. I'm sure some people like it but I thought it was simply awful, an absolute stinker!!!

I actually think they lost their direction from Progress onwards. They flattered to deceive with that album. It was a huge seller off the back of Rob's return and a very strong lead single in TF, which wasn't really representative of the album as a whole. It went further downhill from that point onwards. I've never quite understood why they moved so far from their signature sound and I'd love to know if it was a joint decision, or if GB took a back seat role. I say that because Gary's solo album and the songs he's written for Calendar Girls and FN have been very traditional and pop/ballad orientated. If they still want to remain 'relevant' they need to give their fan base/ casual fans the type of music they expect. The importance of a great lead single can't be underestimated and their hasn't been a truly great one since TF. Eventually this will also impact on tour sales which is their main money earner. I'm with you Pippa, I've always bought their albums since the 2006 comeback but next time if I don't like what they've produced I wont buy it - and I think many others will be of a similar mind.

For me the choice has been simple: 1. Beautiful World 2. The Circus I've loved songs from other albums such as The Flood, Eight Letters, WYBTFM and so on, but none of their other albums have enough depth in terms of quality. I dislike Wonderland intensely and seriously hope their next album, assuming there is one, isn't experimental and harks back to BW and TC.

Agree with all of the above. European fans deserved a full set. That aside, the smaller shows seem to have been so much fun and my goodness, some of the venues have been so, so beautiful. I wish I'd booked one of the European gigs instead of two UK ones. I also agree regarding the 'scripted' nature of their shows. I've always found this quite irritating, and although I'm no fan of Rob as a live performer, I think they have a lot to learn from him in this regard. It's been a successful tour on the whole, and the album has garnered reasonable sales, but as many of us have said, it could have been more successful. During their hiatus I hope they reassess their musical direction and return to the type of pop songs they're best known for. Whist I enjoy songs such as GRFT, Giants and Cry they simply don't connect in the same way and in recent years the quality hasn't been there - although there have been some gems that haven't received the airing they deserve. I fear if they don't return with a very strong album with an emphasis on simplicity and vocal harmonies we'll see a continued decline.

Agree with all of the above. European fans deserved a full set. That aside, the smaller shows seem to have been so much fun and my goodness, some of the venues have been so, so beautiful. I wish I'd booked one of the European gigs instead of two UK ones. I also agree regarding the 'scripted' nature of their shows. I've always found this quite irritating, and although I'm no fan of Rob as a live performer, I think they have a lot to learn from him in this regard. It's been a successful tour on the whole, and the album has garnered reasonable sales, but as many of us have said, it could have been more successful. During their hiatus I hope they reassess their musical direction and return to the type of pop songs they're best known for. Whist I enjoy songs such as GRFT, Giants and Cry they simply don't connect in the same way and in recent years the quality hasn't been there - although there have been some gems that haven't received the airing they deserve. I fear if they don't return with a very strong album with an emphasis on simplicity and vocal harmonies we'll see a continued decline.

Sales have been reasonable in today's climate, but I tend to agree with you, Pippa. I don't think their sales have been that good, disappointing if I'm honest. Although I don't mind the changes it would probably have been better to stick to the originals and I would have put more of the older songs on the album. The TV promo wasn't actually that good. It focused on the history of the group, but the album was more of an afterthought. Maybe they were told that it had to be a documentary style of programme. An Audience With Mark Two would have been a more productive way of pushing the album. Re European tour: I've read some negative tweets, but also a lot of positive ones, so all in all a mixed reception. I know this has already been mentioned by myself and others, but Mark doesn't look well at all and I've been shocked by recent tour photographs. He is full of energy, but facial his skin tone is poor, and his face is quite sunken in many of the photographs - I do hope he's ok?

Jay, If you're referring to the European end of the tour it's my understanding that they've dropped Spin (not a loss in my opinion) SIA (one of their best songs in my view) HDIYL and LAHAM. I find this decision very strange and rather unfair to European fans who have paid a lot of money. I also gather there are no screens at any of the gigs!!!! Although the venues are small compared to arenas and stadiums some of them have been a reasonable size, so for those not right at the front they're not seeing very much. No special effects aside from ticker tape. They are doing the original version of Pray, but my understanding is that they've cut short Babe. Although I loved the new version of Pray, the original is somewhat special. I also prefer the originals for HDIYL and LAHAM.

I totally agree. I would actually love to see them in a small venue without all the productions. But I do think perhaps they should have openly stated that it would be a stripped back show without any production and ticket prices should reflected this. It would have been nice if they had included not just the big show song list, but a couple of additional ones. They could have sung a few songs they've haven't performed before; that would have been a nice gesture. The last time they performed a big production show in Europe was Progress, and let's be honest that was due to Rob's involvement and pulling power. As I said they could have taken a hit financially and put on a couple of full production shows in Europe instead of quite a number of smaller shows. All in all the UK shows have brought in a significant amount of money. Other artists on the 2019 live list have been on full world tours, so it's quite incredible that they've made so much from just UK dates. We'll see similar impressive numbers for the SG as well.

Nobody with any sense would expect the Odyssey show in Europe. The venues are so small it would be impossible to replicate. However, I do think it's rather amiss of TT to cut short the set list. I understand that people have paid a lot of money to see these scaled back shows, so I think it's the least they can do. I really to have to agree about Mark. He appeared very fit and energetic at both shows I went to, but I have to say I've never seen anyone age so quickly. I don't think the long hair and facial hair helps , but occasionally he's look like someone in his late 50's rather than mid 40's. Howard and Gary, on the other hand look very good. It's possible that Mark's alcohol problems may have resulted in premature ageing - although he seems to be having the time of his life on this tour which is lovely to see. I don't know what others think but instead of doing small venues around Europe I wonder if they could perhaps have done one biggish gig in Germany and maybe one other gig somewhere else in Europe giving fans the 'full Odyssey' experience. It probably would not have been financial beneficial, but I understand that the UK tour has taken big money, and as things stand at the moment they're in the top5/6 grossing artists for 2019.

Decent sales for the album. Last minute decision to go to the last show in Cardiff. Although I've already posted a review some thoughts on last night: 1. B stage far too small for a large stadium. More thought should have been put into this stage in my view. There was no 'wow' factor and didn't have any visual impact. 2. Disgusted by some people at the concert. Continually getting up to get drinks and incessantly talking. Can't for the life of me understand why they pay good money and then don't watch or listen to the show. 3. Lots of people leaving at the start of Babe. Not often I feel sorry for multi millionaires but I hope Mark didn't notice the amount of people leaving. 4.Vocally they, Rick and Lulu were excellent. The lads looked so happy and it was a joy to see. 5. TT need to think very carefully about their next album and place far greater emphasis on a strong single release. Clearly evident last night that many people either didn't know the newer songs/didn't rate them. As a fan it was very obvious even to me that songs such as Giants, Spin, GRFI simply don't live up to earlier releases. 6. There were a lot of empty seats on what I refer to as the GA seating area. I'm assuming that the director ensured that this wasn't obvious at the cinema. 7. Struck up a conversation with someone who works at the stadium and some interesting information. Worked the Spice Girls and they said it was packed out, although they were vocally 'awful.' According to them with 2 weeks to go TT had only sold out half of the stadium. Tickets have therefore been given away free to, for example, fire services and NHS staff because they didn't want the stadium to look empty on filming night. How true this is I don't know, but when searching on Ticketmaster a couple of weeks ago blocks were unsold. 8. My initial rating hasn't changed : Not as good as Ultimate, BW or Circus Tours but better than lll and Wonderland.

Oh Milly, so, so pleased you had a wonderful time. I agree regarding Howard. His vocals were very strong in Manchester. I think he's finally at ease with singing live -at the grand old age of 51!!:) I have a similar viewpoint to you where Mark's concerned. I think I also posted that Babe was much better than I expected. I thought it was a sweet rendition. I agree, Pray was absolutely gorgeous on the night I went. I'm assuming that you went for the three nights at the 02? The crowd in Manchester was fantastic, and the audience was far more engaged and vocal than at the previous two tours. The lads were as you say incredible in terms of their energy levels . I defy anyone to find other artists who display such delight and joy when performing. It's quite infectious and the three of them seem to be a very tight unit who support and encourage each other - it's lovely to see them perform. Wondering about your view on the set list. Because it was a GH I guess they couldn't stray too far from the obvious choices. For my part I would have been happy for Giants, GRFI and Cry to be excluded in favour of a couple of ballads - but we all have our own preferences. I would have liked songs they haven't sung live such as WYBTFM/ When We Were Young included in the show, or songs such as Eight Letters and HUAL.

Jay, I don't think the album chart has changed that much. Yes, sales are down but artists such as Adele, and Ed Sheeran still sell in vast numbers. There are multiple reasons for TT's plummeting sales. They've been around since 2005 and for most artists there is a decline in their popularity the longer they're around. Also, the loss of Jay, the tax issue and most importantly in my view their musical output. Latterly, it simply hasn't been good enough. I maintain that they've move too far from the BW and Circus era in term of their musical output and they've suffered for it. Why they've chosen this route is puzzling in my view. As a live act they're still up there as one of the best, in the UK at least. Their shows are second to none. and although I didn't particularly enjoy the III or Wonderland tours, the current tour is fab. The reviews have been exceptionally good and their ticket sales are massive - so why have their album sales declined so much? People are willing to fork out excessive amounts of money for a show ticket, but not £10 for an album?

Thanks, Jay727. You'll have the most fantastic time :) There are some brilliant visuals throughout the show, but as I mentioned above the production is toned down. The atmosphere on Tuesday was actually incredible and there was far more audience participation than at the III and Wonderland tours. I think this was essentially down to the set list. As I said I wasn't over keen on some of the song choices and would have ditched Cry, GRFI, and Spin for example, in favour of other songs. There are so many wonderful songs in their back catalogue that we haven't heard live.. wishful thinking sadly. What did surprise me was my reaction to Babe. I've always really, really disliked that song and Mark's vocals, but I have to say that his performance of the song was very moving on the night. Hope you have the most incredible time ... I was shattered at the end of the night and how they sustain their energy levels throughout the show is quite remarkable !!!!

Slight change of direction but I thought I'd post my review of the tour here. Hope others will also post their reviews as time goes on. We purchased last minute ticket for Manchester and had great seats - so I'd advise any one who is thinking of going to shop around as there are still some good seats available. Although we were seated in row 208 and therefore way back, we had an excellent view of the show and this section is great for the B stage. There is reference to song choices below so I'd avoid the review if you want to be surprised on the night!! So............ Rick Astley - a great support act and the arena was nearly full for his slot so the atmosphere was fantastic by the time TT came on stage. TT performed for around 2 hours with songs spanning the full length of their career to date. In general I was happy with the set list but I would have preferred the inclusion of songs such as HUAL, 8 Letters and WYBTFM instead of GRFI or Giants. Howard and Mark were far more centre stage than previously and took the lead, or partial lead on a number of songs. Gary took more of a back seat and in general I thought Howard sounded the best he's ever sounded. Although I am not a fan of Mark's vocals I thought he was also better than he has previously been. Gary's vocals were less consistent and whilst he sounded wonderful on the ballads, he was less assured on songs such as GD. The show was fast paced and the most successful elements were the ballad sections in my view. There was complete audience engagement for songs such as BFG, MLS,HDIYL, Patience and RTW and I wish they'd included one or two more ballads. They chose the new version of Pray and actually it was a lovely rendition of the song and was rather moving. It was a refreshing change from the original version, although I can understand that some fans may be disappointed. I found the arrangements for some of the songs rather disconcerting, such as RLMF, but I think the intention is to put a different spin on them. They mostly followed the Odyssey album sequencing which rather surprised me. Creatively, this production was more stream lined and simplistic, even with the inclusion of the giant Orb. Although this in itself isn't a bad thing I didn't think the concept was as strong as previous shows. The B stage was very small and at the back and to one side of the arena. and didn't have the impact compared to previous tours. This was a shame because song wise it was one of the strongest sections of the concert. SIA was performed on this stage and it was fantastic!!! Overall, I preferred it to the previous two tours, III and Wonderland, simply based on the overall set list. However, it didn't have the emotional impact I expected it to have and concept wise it wasn't as strong, in spite of the giant Orb. I would still place the Ultimate Tour, Beautiful World and The Circus far ahead of any of their subsequent tours. I have tickets for one of the stadium gigs but I'm planning to sell them. A TT show is always a fantastic night's entertainment but there's something missing. I think the most significant factor is the quality of their most recent work; I simply feel that it isn't good enough. I hope they use their time off to reassess their musical direction and perhaps revert to the style of BW and TC. Although there is some degree of criticism in my review the lads put on an incredibly energetic performance and I've no doubt that those of you going to the show will have a fabulous time!!

Sales for Odyssey have been reasonable, but nothing more and the album hasn't held up well compared to albums such as The Greatest Showman. Sales were front loaded, as tends to be the case with TT, but what differs from previously is their lack of wider appeal. I completely concur - if they'd stayed true to their earlier style and released a strong ballad the album would have had greater longevity. Although they wouldn't have reached the giddy heights of BW or The Circus, I tend to think sales figures would have been higher than they currently are. TT have completely underestimated the power of the initial single release for the success of an album. By the way does anyone know when Rob's album is due for release?

Yes, I think it is , Milly, although it's difficult to pick up the vocals. Rob's comments suggest that he sang at least one verse. I'm therefore assuming that the vocals were shared. Since Jason left their ability to choose the right song (These Days aside) has been truly dreadful!!

Better Man - thanks for the link. The song sound rather lovely - great potential. TT have made some very strange musical choices of late. Quite a few beautiful ballads appear to have been discarded for reasons unknown to me, and I guess many others.

Chart position could have been better but for me sales are more important. Interesting that Westlife have done so well with their comeback single. I understand it's 3 on the singles chart after one day of sales - a great return, although I don't know their sales figures. I realise that they've probably garnered higher sales because it's their first release in 8 years but it does go to show that acts like TT can do well. I'm assuming that Westlife's demographic isn't that much different to TT - perhaps a slightly younger fan base but still, it does suggest that 'traditional' pop acts can succeed in today's charts. TT should have kept to their winning formula - they should definitely have released more ballads!!!!!

Sales are always dreadful in January. Expect very small sales figures from here on in. Some artists are selling decent amounts, for example, 400,000+, unfortunately TT aren't. As we've pointed out before their fan base has been decimated - and to some degree they have themselves to blame. They've released sub standard music and ignored quality tracks. If you don't give the fan base what they want/expect, eventually they get fed up. Re solo albums. I'm not sure about Mark but I wouldn't be surprised if Gary releases an album and does some shows to coincide with his 50th.

They've made some very, very strange song choices in the past four years. Does anyone know if this song is for a film score? It's a lovely, lovely song and this is also what I expect from TT.

Happy New Year everyone!!! That tour brings back so many memories, Milly. I went with a large group of work friends, about 10 of us. First time I'd seen TT live and we all went for ' a bit of fun.' I was absolutely bowled over by the show/them. The Beatles Medley and the above performance has always stuck in my mind. I've had a soft spot for the Ultimate Tour ever since. I never expected them to be so good live and it was a shock to see how fab the show was - good memories. Where has the time gone ??

I'm sorry you see it that way BadHabit. I in no way meant to be dismissive of Jay or suggest that he is a 'bad guy.' If you read my post I do say I miss Jay and for me they were at their best as a four piece. However, it's not unfair of me to point out that he had few leads, which I think is a shame by the way,because he's my second favourite vocalist in the band, or that he had very little input re song writing. The forum is for comments and opinions and unless we're looking at facts such as sales figures, then of course it's merely conjecture. My point was that I didn't fully understand the intellectual label given to Jason. Of course he can 'date' whom is wishes, regardless of their age, I don't think I suggested otherwise, but simply made an observations that he appears to have been photographed with much younger women on a number of occasions and therefore falls into that stereotype of older man/ younger woman. By the way for balance Howard is married to a much younger woman as well. I think it is relevant to comment on the fact that he's broken off all contact with the band as I though they had a close bond, but seemingly that's not the case. And as fans it's not unusual to speculate as to the reasons why.

On the subject of the mother's. I don't know their respective ages by golly they all look so good. As Howard is 50ish, his mother must be around 70 years of age. Gary's mother hardly has any wrinkles ( I'd love to know her secret) and I think she is 70. The TT mums certainly have good genes!!!! Re Jay - you're probably right about the tax thing, Milly, but it's all rather perplexing. The other thing about Jay is whilst he has this persona as the 'deep and intellectual one' of the band, on the few occasions he's been in the press he's often been photographed with much younger women placing him in that 'older man/ younger women cliché realm. Reading between the lines it seems Howard has had a tough couple of years. I think the two boys have been a handful, not sleeping and generally he's found parenthood rather draining second time around. It appears that his wife Katie has also been unwell for some time and she has only recently started designing again. I think the past four years have been quite challenging for the lads in their family lives. It's obviously just come to light that Dawn became ill following the loss of Poppy - all in all it's remarkable that they have the energy to do as much as they do.

Jay was always the one that struggled with the limelight so to some extent it wasn't a surprise that he was the one to jump ship. I also felt that he was, to put it bluntly, rather work shy. I think they probably understand/accept his decision to leave the music industry, but I agree with you, they must be hurt and confused by his actions to cut them out of his life. I know if a friend I'd spent many years with did that to me I'd feel very hurt. It does make me wonder what an earth went on? Was Jay appalled by their involvement in the tax scheme or was it something else? Whilst I understand Jay has his own life and friendship groups to completely erase them from his life is drastic to say the least. I remember being at Wembley for the Circus Tour. I think it was the last but one night. It was a truly magical experience, and one I'll never forget. The absolute joy on their faces, and the joy on Jay's face at the end of the show was something to behold. I would never have guessed that he was done with the band and only stayed on for the Progress tour so they could finish as a five. I recall reading that but can't remember where. To think that their appearance at the 2012 Olympics would be Jay's last performance with the band - if he only stayed along enough for the reunion tour then I do wonder why he didn't quit the band immediately following it?

It has to be said very few bands have the history or complexity of TT!!! For a 'bland' boy band they've somehow managed to conjure up so much controversy:) I agree with you in so far as the documentary could have focused a little more on the past four years and their work on the last two tours and the musical, but for whatever reason that didn't happen. I'm putting it out there now - I don't think Howard likes Rob very much. I've obviously no actual proof but it's a feeling I've had for some time. I believe Gary admires Rob and is probably just a tad envious of his solo career, but genuinely views him as a friend. As for Mark Rob could drop him from a very high cliff and Mark would still think he's the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. I actually feel for Howard. A few months ago he bumped into the 'elusive Jay' on Kensington High Street and they had a brief chat. Apparently that was the first time Jay had see Howard's two children. Howard has also posted some lovely heart felt posts about Jay - who has completely cut the boys out of his life. I genuinely think that Howard is upset by Jay's decision to not only walk away from the band, but also their friendship.