dylandog

I still think that both Jay and Rob's contributions had to be acknowledged because it was a celebration of 30 years of TT, although I can understand your point regarding the three of them not being centre stage. I suppose their most popular periods were as a 5 and then a 4. I think Gary, Howard and Mark accept that their popularity has waned as a three. I fully accept that for many TT isn't TT if there aren't the five of them. I became a fan in 2005 so for me the best of TT was as a four piece. Sadly, I have to agree with you regarding Rob. I think he uses the lads when it suits him (although to an extent I'm sure they've used him) and only joined them off the back of the incredible Circus tour. If the above it true, and as the extracts are from Rob's autobiography, then it does appear that for Rob it's less of an emotional pull and more of a status/financial one. For all the comments about Jay leaving and the supposed closeness between him and Rob, I'm convinced that Rob's return was the catalyst for Jay leaving. The body language in the documentary and on stage was not good. Jay stated in his leaving statement that he'd fallen out of love with music but I really think there was more to it than that. Rob's return wasn't a positive thing for the band in my view - for Rob yes, but the rest, no.

I quite enjoyed the documentary. It was a watchable hour, nothing more, nothing less. The 2005 documentary was more open, raw and tense. I think they had to acknowledge Jay's departure and it was a nice gesture on their part. If they hadn't done something the snub would have been all over twitter. The Jay issue is an interesting one. I miss him from the band, but it's difficult to clarify exactly what his role was as he didn't sing lead (aside from a couple of songs) and didn't have any significant involvement in the song writing side of things. What he did was give a visual balance to the band and contribute greatly to dance routines during live shows. I guess he's still making a ton of money from the TT franchise - he'll get a cut from the Greatest Hits album and from The Band Musical without having to lift a finger. I've never quite got the cerebral label placed on Jay. Aside from a couple of academic courses over a 10 year period and a couple of TV/theatre roles he didn't do anything constructive during his years in the wilderness. Re Rob - he had to be included, it would have been impossible to exclude him. What irks me somewhat is his minimal involvement in The Band Musical whilst picking up a chunk of the profits. I was shocked that the West End opening was the first time he's ever seen the show whilst Mark, Howard and Gary have travelled across the country publicising it. TT, whether you like their music or not have undoubtedly left an indelible mark on UK pop music over the past 30 years - very few 'boy bands' have that legacy.

Wishing everyone a Happy Christmas and peaceful and healthy 2019.

Agree - decent sales and the album is holding up better than I thought it would. Hopefully the TV show scheduled for next week will mean that sales will stay strong for a little longer. Hope you enjoy the gig at the 02 Milly. We've tickets for a stadium gig in June, but finances permitting I may also look for an arena date in April. I think I may enjoy this tour more than the previous three as the set list should be more to my liking, although I'm sad that I'll not get to hear songs such as WYBTFM live.

I do think you're right on many things Elizabeth. There's no denying Rob's popularity and I think no one on this forum has suggested otherwise. Jay leaving undoubtedly had an impact far greater than anyone anticipated. I think this is partly because with Rob back on board they seemed to go from a 5 piece to 3 piece out of nowhere and that makes a big change in dynamics. Also agree re the lack of the typical TT ballad post The Flood- meaning a loss of their signature sound etc. Where I don't agree is the political aspect. I see Gary as quite neutral politically. He hasn't aligned himself with a political cause/party to my knowledge (aside from a throw away comment when he was on a school visit with David Cameron, if I recall correctly) I don't know his political affiliations, although he's probably conservative with a small c, but he's constantly lambasted and called out for his political stance and hypocrisy. There are many musicians with strong public political views; Gary certainly isn't one of them. I see the TT lads as a decent bunch, all in all. Not perfect, but generally nice guys. Milly - I agree with you. Gary's reception at all the tours I've attended has been incredible and I've found his performances exceptionally. As for TT, I don't think their vocals have been strong on the last two tours aside from their Hyde Park show when they were brilliant. Which show are you going to in May by the way?

I really couldn't get into III, although there are one or two great songs on the album. I don't think their fall in popularity links to Howard/Mark - I really think it was the GB/tax link, Rob coming and going and changing the focus of the music and the group dynamic, Jay and their musical direction. Whilst I don't think the high sales were sustainable long term I never thought their sales would go into free fall. I'm quite surprised the press haven't cotton on to the drop in their popularity. That said they still have incredible tour sales - which I find rather strange. At the last two concerts I've attended there's been a noticeable change in atmosphere because a lot of the crowd weren't familiar with the new songs.

I still think it's a combination of 1) Tax issue - they've been criticised for it significantly more than other celebs, and it's still brought up 4 years later! 2) Taking Rob back (albeit it temporarily) 3) Jay leaving not long after the tax issue came to light and 4) weak music. I know some people say that sales have collapsed across the board but it hasn't affected Adele or Ed Sheeran; so there's still a market for popular music. To this day I'll never understand why they've deviated so far from the sound of BW and The Circus. I'll be honest - I've gone to the last three tours and not enjoyed them very much, whereas I've loved the GB tours. I haven't enjoyed the albums ( III or Wonderland) but I've loved Gary's musical stuff. There are some beautiful songs in Finding Neverland and some sweet tunes in Calendar Girls. As a TT fan it's been a strange 4 years!!

All in all the album is holding up better than I expected. That doesn't take away from the fact that their sales have nose dived. They have a core fan base but in the past 4 years they've lost the 'casual' fan - partially because a lot of their material has been sub standard ( and that's coming from a fan) Re Guardian piece. I've no problem with the first three placings. Rob has had a stellar solo career for a very long time and continues to sell out large venues around the world. As for the other placings I think we can take it with a 'pinch of salt.' The Guardian has always hated GB and that's clearly evident from this article.

I really like Everlasting. I think Gary should have been lead vocal on it with Mark leading on OOUH. In my view Everlasting requires a strong vocalist - and unfortunately I don't think Mark's voice is good enough live. I also think Everlasting should have been the first release off the album.

I haven't seen their One Love concert - thanks I'll take a look. Unfortunately, I do struggle with Mark's voice, which is an acquired taste and not to everyone's liking. I will say one thing - there is great chemistry between the three and Rob; although as mentioned by others I didn't particularly like the Rob/Ayda bit. I found it rather distracting and unnecessary.

I'm afraid I agree with Milly on this one. I thought they were dire. If you concentrate on their vocals rather than the visuals it's clear how bad the performance was. I haven't read the Mail comments; I don't have the heart for it. I actually quite like Odyssey as an overall package and concept. However, last night their vocals certainly didn't live up to TT standards. I would have chosen a different song to Shine, although I like the new take on Everything Changes. On a completely superficial level (apologies to Mark fans in advance) I think he looks dreadful at the moment. He hasn't looked well for sometime - hope he is healthy and there's nothing wrong other than a 'mid life crisis' style wise!

A January date would be a disaster and their sales could tank. January sales are notoriously poor - with the exception of major artists such as Adele. The beginning of December has always been their release date in order to capture maximum sales via the Christmas market. To deviate from that marketing strategy would be odd to say the least. There's nothing to be gained from an early release in 2017- absolutely nothing. Do we know which artists are scheduled for a late November/December album release, aside from Michael Buble who always pops out an album around this time :)

It's like groundhog day - 2010. There will never be a consensus between TT4/3 supporters and TT/Robbie supporters. It's a divided fandom and nothing will change that. I'm in Milly's camp and I've stated my views many times regarding Rob. For TT5 fans this is exactly what they've wanted - but for many it's simply not. I was so looking forward to the anniversary tour, but I had a gut feeling Rob would come on board and so it's proved to be. I am seriously considering whether to attend the tour which is a shame and I'll have to satisfy myself with Hyde Park and perhaps an international gig (finances permitting). I've tried to rationalise my feelings about Rob and embrace his involvement but I can't bear to watch him perform - I really can't. Progress was the worse tour post comeback. Most of the publicity will focus on Rob (not his fault ) but it takes away from the bands achievements post 2005 and relegates it to an after thought. He will dominate publicity campaigns and yet again viewed as the prodigal son returning to the fold. The recent tour included multiple nights at the O2 and other large arenas, so the anniversary tour will attract large numbers. It's really not just about large stadiums, it's about an almost indescribable feeling they evoke when they perform. It's a lightness, joy and a feeling of being part of a wonderful piece of entertainment- and that's difficult to quantify Elisabeth. From my perspective, Rob offers nothing to improve their live performances. A showman he may be but the beauty of TT in my eyes is the symmetry and balance between the band members. When Rob's with them that equilibrium is lost. I would dearly love Jay to return and everyone would welcome him with open arms, sadly, there will never be such a consensus with regard to Rob.

It's likely to be a short term residency as others have mentioned. I can't see major financial backing unless there's a guaranteed return. I really know little or nothing about BSB so unable to comment on the quality of their music etc. However, TT always put on extravagant productions which require extensive outlay, so I'm wondering if the band will take responsibility for some of the cost of the staging? I imagine that BSB have a significant advantage over TT because they're American and have achieved success there; whereas TT are essentially unknown in the US. Whilst Gary's received some recognition due to FN he doesn't have a wide fan base and TT will struggle to pull in the crowds, although I do think that UK tourists may keep the show afloat for a short period of time. After that TT will need exceptional publicity and word of mouth to sustain a longer run. However, at this stage in their career I guess it's a case of : 'nothing ventured, nothing gained.'

Good news. A couple of hundred is still a lot but better than several hundred. I don't know why people do that - I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I'd damaged a car and simply drove off. I'm sure you'll have a fab time at the concert -and it seems to have come around quickly.

Kath, that's a pretty mean thing to do - hopefully it won't cost as much as you think. Someone crashed into the side of my car last winter. Although it wasn't my fault and the insurance company recouped all their costs I've just had the renewal notice for my insurance and it's gone through the roof !!! Just listened to the radio interview and enjoyed it. HJ has never been the shy and retiring kind, he's quite a confident chap. Ascension is my favourite off the album but I have a soft spot for Thrill Me because it's so catchy. I have a bad feeling about the new TT album. I was hoping Gary would hint that they've reverted back to the sound of BW/Circus but the fact he said they've taken a direction that wasn't expected fills me with trepidation. I swear if they've gone down the electronic route I'll scream from the roof tops. Gary said in the interview that his signature sound and the one that best represents him is a ballad- so if they've veered from that sound yet again then I'm simply not buying the album I'm afraid.

My take on the tax issue is that Gary took a hammering from the press due partly to what they perceived to be his political affiliations; although I reckon he's one of the least political pop artists around. Those couple of words he uttered when walking around a school with DC certainly came back to haunt him. He's normally very guarded in what he says because he's acutely aware of the repercussions- but in this instance he blurted something out which I'm sure he thought was quite innocuous - how wrong was he!! Glad the album is No 1 in the sound track charts - some really good tunes on it. I can imagine Gary singing some of them, particularly Moment, although his voice isn't as powerful as TH so it would sound very difficult to Tony's rendition.

The timing was indeed interesting. It followed within days of the extremely successful documentary on Gary. Whilst the press had every right to highlight the bands involvement as it was a legitimate journalistic story, the venom directed at TT was surprising. There was a story in the DM on ID recently but it hasn't garnered much publicity and other stories have hinted at other mainstream artists/celebrities involvement in schemes - but again with little public backlash. TT confirmed they paid the outstanding amount back some time ago, even though to my knowledge other investors are still challenging the legality of the governments stance. However, almost two years on the vitriol towards Gary remains unabated in many quarters. Recent twitter comments still hark back to that period with very personal comments made about him. Some TT fans responded to nastier tweets but in a very gentle and polite way which was nice to see. Since the bad publicity he's continued his charity work but in a low key way. I do think it's a shame he's had to back away from things like CIN because of the media - whether his charity work was for his own personal profile we will never know, but I don't think it was purely for self serving reasons. In terms of the new album -I'm really enjoying it. I have to say that the Mark/Gary combo is indeed one of the weakest on the album but there are some gems on there. I'm not keen on the Kim Wilde song - but I've never liked her voice so that may well have influenced my view. Great reviews all around and 80's fans appear to have embraced the album which I think was a labour of love for Gary.

People who deride Gary and post very nasty comments about him - and I can tell you there were some on twitter today following his brief appearance on This Morning seem to have little or no understanding of the public humiliation he faced during the 90's. Although I wasn't a TT fan at that time I distinctly remember watching The Brits and hearing the humiliating comments directed his way. Gary hasn't displayed any trace of malice towards those who made his life very difficult during that period, of which there were more than a few, and one in particular. He does appear to polarize people - with the tax issue still fresh in some people's minds. Today for instance there were comments about this and some questioning his right to make an album with the 80's artists. He seems to be an individual people like to shoot down for some reason and that can't be easy for him. It has made him the man he is today - and I've no doubt it's strengthened his resolve and his appreciation for the second chance he's had. I 'get' that some people don't like his music, but he's committed to his craft and it was evident that he is held in high regard by the 80's artists he's collaborated with for the Fly album. In the fickle world of pop there are many, many artists who care little for the music they produce - Gary isn't one of those and he deserves the success he's achieved the second time around.

That boat has sailed for Mark, as you say. He's had numerous opportunities for commercial success but it hasn't happened. I think he knows that - but I think it's still important for him to get his sound out there. He obviously loves what he does - and I applaud him for his determination to produce the music he loves, irrespective of it's success. Gary's been in his element producing this album and it seems to have been a labour of love for him. Can you imagine how fab it must be to meet so many of your idols from your child hood :)

I love the music to Thrill Me - surprised Gary wasn't involved in that side of it because he tends to find the music easier than lyrics. Maybe commercial is the wrong word to use, and in relation to Gary is doesn't equate to a lack of substance but simply that his compositions tend to appeal to more people. As you say Mark is more experimental and it doesn't capture the public's interest in the same way. Mark has spoken about his love for bands such as Muse. whereas Gary's rooted firmly in classical MOR pop. They are very different in that respect and this shows in their solo output. I still think that Mark will bring out another album - I really do. He's quite committed to his solo sound which is far removed from TT's. What I find puzzling is the lack of interest in his solo work. As part of TT he's always been one, if not, the most popular member but that doesn't translate to his solo work. The fact that so few people turned up for his solo tour is rather strange in my view and I can't quite balance out the two. He's a committed performer and always gives 100% whether that be as part of TT or on his own. Sadly I would never go and see Mark solo because quite simply I couldn't listen to him for two hours - to me his voice is marmite and it isn't to my taste over a long period of time, although I love his interpretation of some songs such as We All Fall Down.

Jay, I really like Thrill Me. It's very catchy and has an authentic 80's vibe. I agree that Gary will release another solo album and for that matter so will Mark. I don't think Gary will ever leave TT, regardless of his other ventures. He appears totally committed to the band this time around - and he must know if he leaves that's simply the end. In relation to Mark I imagine that the financial gains from being in TT fund his solo albums. Studio time, promotion etc is very expensive and the huge amount of money made from TT must keep his solo work afloat. I remember after TT split first time around Mark plowed a significant amount of his own money into his solos stuff and he commented on how expensive it was. I know he has some kind of production deal with the label but his sales have been so poor; there's no way he's made a profit from his solo stuff.

To pick up on the point you made a few posts ago Milly. The problem as I see it is that Mark doesn't have a commercial sound. Most of his songs are interesting, but solo wise he doesn't have that melodic and catchy quality to his work. We don't know what songs he's written for TT on his own so it's very difficult to comment on his input for the band. Eliot and Gary are grounded in classic pop and it shows in their writing. I would also contend that Eliot and Gary are better musicians in terms of their ability to play an instrument, although that isn't a prerequisite for being a great song writer. I would contend that Mark has had greater input in the song writing over the past 5 years ( although this is conjecture on my part, and somewhat contradicts what I said above ) Whether that's a good thing or not depends on one's taste? From my perspective I'm grounded in a classical pop sound, so I generally prefer Gary's output.

It's difficult because if I'm honest I preferred Gary's solo tour to the lll tour - although I still thought lll was fab. The band together are fantastic performers and their shows are great, but the music has lost some of it's direction. I hope I'm not offending anyone when I say this, because I recognise Mark's talent and Howard input on the tours and his backing vocals on recordings, but as they get older the gulf between Gary and the other two has become more noticeable. Gary's voice is still of a good enough quality to warrant a continued solo career, but I don't think Mark or Howard have that vocal ability. Gary is carving out a solid career in musical theatre and has an interesting sideline in other projects. I would actually like to hear an album from Gary of existing songs from his current musicals and an intimate tour showcasing those songs. It will be interesting to see what direction they take over the next year or so. The Fly album does show Gary's versatility and his dedication to all kinds of musical genres. There was a picture on line of Mark over the past couple of days in the recording studio with a couple of artists - so maybe he also has something in the pipeline.

Thanks Milly - will have a listen now. From what I have heard I agree with everyone else- the album has truly captured the sound of the 80's. Taron Egerton and Hugh Jackman were on the JR show last night - it would have been an ideal opportunity to showcase one of the songs. They could have sung Thrill Me , but unfortunately it didn't happen.