dylandog

In truth the vitriol I've seen on line has come from TT fans, as opposed to Rob fans. Certain TT fans seem to think that Rob represents the authentic TT and to champion TT4 or TT3 goes against the true essence of being a fan. However, some people appear to have rather short memories. As late as 2005 Rob's antipathy towards TT was still palatable and he was making disparaging remarks about rejoining them around this time - 10 years after the band had disbanded, although he was kind enough to appear as a hologram at the Ultimate tour :) That said, you're right Milly because essentially the band will make the decision regarding the reunion and in some respects it's not actually that important. What is important is the quality of the music they produce from now on in and how they promote it. That will have more significance for the continuation of TT than the reunion tour. And that is one of the main problems I have with Rob's involvement. He has nothing invested in TT. It means not one jot to him if any album he's involved in with the band sells badly because he's not going to stay around. His career will continue and he will release albums and tour as a solo artist, but for TT it represents the brand and their careers.

There have been many harsh words expressed and you're right, Milly, 'hate' has frequently been thrown at those less enthusiastic about TT5. I can understand that fans who have been with the band since the outset see five as the ideal, but for some such as myself that's not the case, as I invested in TT4 and latterly TT3. People need to recognize that music is subjective and we all have an opinion and feelings about artists. It doesn't make those opinions right or wrong, but people have a right to them. In terms of Rob my feelings may indeed be irrational but I simply can't watch him perform. I find his persona overbearing, arrogant and coarse and unfortunately I can't get past those feelings; hence my predicament in terms of going to the tour. I do enjoy some of his recordings with TT such as The Flood and WWWY, but watching him live is a different scenario altogether, both in terms of my time and finances. I doubt very much that Jay will rejoin, but if he does it will be overshadowed by Rob's involvement and as selfish as it sounds I would like the limelight to be on Jay. The lads put their heads on the block returning in 2005 and it could have backfired leaving them looking fools and failures. Rob didn't take any risks when he rejoined in 2010 - he waited until their success was secure and their profile big enough to warrant his involvement.

The 25th anniversary will go ahead regardless of whether its a 3, 4 or 5. I would be very surprised if Jay returned, but delighted all the same. He's been greatly missed over the past year or so. As for Rob. His possible inclusion has caused some division on line but regardless of my, or others opinion, he has a 'right' to return having been a founding member of the band. For me his inclusion would be somewhat of a dilemma and it could alter my decision to attend the tour in 2017. Many people will attend who are Rob fans only. That was evident during the Progress tour and changed the atmosphere of the concert and the overall dynamic of the band, and not in a positive way. So for me it's a case of accepting Rob's inclusion rather that celebrating it - although I fully accept that many fans post 2006 and older fans will fully embrace his return.

It's true they're a fantastic live act and it's probably the main reason for their longevity. I'm assuming the Singapore gig wont have any production, or minimal at least but I don't think it will distract from the experience. Gary's shows have been music led and they were wonderful. That said the best two tours have been BW and The Circus, both of which had a significant amount of production. The key is for the production to enhance the music rather than distract from it which is a difficult balancing act. I really hope that the Singapore gig exceeds the expectations for everyone who's attending.

Hopefully TT will play somewhere close to you Milly. Don't give up just yet as they appear receptive to performing outside of the UK and their normal venues. They've hinted at some European dates this year and with the success of the Dubai concert there's a chance they'll try places they wouldn't have considered some years ago. It's possible Rob has also told them about his successful concert in Romania and as a result Eastern Europe may be on their agenda. iamstrong - hope the concert is fantastic and make sure you post a review!

Milly - it was lovely and it's great to see what you look like - hope I looked at the right one! :) It was a fab idea and what wonderful messages and videos. Gary is lucky to have so many dedicated fans The Girls musical has received fantastic press reviews so another nice birthday present for him.

No, I don't think they did, Milly, unless I missed it. I'm referring to the lads, as opposed to the record company. I don't think Mark, Gary or Howard made any comment on the problem with the production of the DVD and it would have been a nice gesture if they had, although I accept they weren't responsible in any way. The press did appear to make rather a lot of the whole incident which I find rather strange. There was also negative press around ticket prices for Hyde Park. Granted some of the options such as the diamond ticket are extortionate, but the GA tickets are good value and I very much doubt TT have any major involvement in ticket pricing. On a positive note in the past month or so TT have been voted as the best live show for two arenas; one in the Netherlands and the Getting Arena in Birmingham, so not all bad!!

Your right, in that the press picked up with the production issue and it caused a lot of negative publicity. Although it wasn't the bands fault, I do think it would have been a nice gesture it they'd acknowledged the issue in some way.

It's such a shame the re-lease hasn't done well. Minor sales are of course better than none, but disappointing nonetheless. Does anyone know how the DVD is doing as a stand along purchase?

Welcome back, Jay. Hope the holiday was fantastic!!

Yep, I will be going. Although I've nothing against OM I would have preferred a different artist - perhaps a singer/songwriter type or a band like the Script who supported TT for part of The Circus tour. I hope OM doesn't join the band on stage but keeps to his own solo slot as I've bought a ticket for TT and not TT and guest artist. Also expecting other names to be released. I think I'm right in saying that a number of support acts perform on each day alongside the headliners, but perhaps someone can verify this for me.

I've often commented on my dislike of Progress but perhaps I haven't been entirely truthful as there are songs off that album that I like very, very much. The same applies to lll. The difference is I LOVED the overall sound and output of BW and it's a quality album through and through. The last two albums haven't had the overall quality of BW, or Circus for that matter. I think Adele will have longevity over and above the likes of Gaga. Her sales are so enormous, even with a down turn they would still be vast. Another thing is she doesn't polarize the public in the way artists like Gaga do. Adele is a MOR artist with quite a conservative sound. Performers such as her tend to buck the trend and have longer careers than those who are more 'out there.' Part of TT's appeal is they also fit into the conservative end of the music market. If artists produce a classical pop sound their music doesn't date as much and stands the test of time. If you listen to songs like BFG, MLS and Patience they are still as fresh as they were when they were first released - a sign of quality music in my view. In terms of the Greatest Hits album in 2017 I would love a double album with some of the B sides revamped and perhaps given an acoustic sound. It's a shame they haven't received the public airing they deserve, but I guess that goes for most artists who only have the opportunity to showcase a small selection of their work.

Weak sales given that the documentary aired twice around the holiday period but it hasn't been strongly marketed in high street shops. I'm sure the record company and band accepted some time ago that there wouldn't be a hike in sales. I think they will now concentrate on the new album with a winter release date. Adele's sales in the UK have been outstanding, which proves that there is a strong buying market for the right music. That said her promotional strategy has been perfect and she's had amazing radio backing.

You have a valid point regarding Gary, Cat. He's had numerous commitments with FN and TG musical and his time must have been very limited. In terms of the DVD I'd be surprised if they thought much in relation to extras or B sides on singles - I'd expect that to be more of a management/record label consideration. The industry has also changed considerably since their return in terms of downloading, etc. It is interesting to see how genuinely happy they all are given the dip in their popularity. My guess is they came very, very close to splitting after Jay's departure (closer than any of us imagined) so they probably appreciate whatever achievements and opportunities come their way. From the documentary there seems to be a recognition that their time at the top has come, or is coming, to a natural conclusion. There's no bitterness or envy from what I can see, just an understanding that new artists such as Adele and Ed Sheeran have taken over the mantle.

TT is quite unique in their narrative and the different modes they've gone through. I largely agree with you, Milly. I love to listen to music, to hear the orchestra and the harmonies. I love to feel a connection with a song and Progress didn't do that for me, and neither did the concert for the same reason. If songs emote they tend to stand the test of time and for me that makes them classics. In all honesty I would greatly struggle if Rob returned, but I can understand that first time TT fans and Rob fans would love him to rejoin the band. However, I doubt it will happen unless there's something in it for him - sorry, but that's what I believe. The crucial thing for me is the quality of the music. I've stuck with them because I genuinely believe they have talent and they can re-capture their trademark sound. If the next album is characteristic of Progress then I will struggle to remain on board. It's possible they may come under some pressure from the record label to deliver because I can't imagine they've made much money from the lll album era; given the relatively poor album/DVD sales and the major production issues with the re-lease.

I don't think it a case of going backwards; more of a case of great/good music as opposed to average or mediocre music. I would contend that EL, Wait and The Flood are songs more in the genre of 'traditional' TT music, but songs like Affirmation etc are not. The Progress album was too electronic sounding for my liking and what I associate as the recent TT sound based around beautiful orchestration and harmonies was absent. Musical evolution sadly doesn't always equate to good music. There's a fine line between quality and experimentation. If bands want to retain a commercial approach with associated sales, they need to tread carefully. If commercial success is not important then go all out for experimentation - but be prepared to accept the outcome, be it positive or negative. TT is built on commercialism, whether that's a good or bad thing is debatable but I don't believe they'd wish to be viewed as a niche act. Success is central to their identity and legacy - critics may have liked Progress but I've no doubt that if the band had the choice between commercial or critical success, they'd choose the commercial route every time.

I have a tendency to be over critical and I don't always acknowledge that many artists in their 40's and with nearly 25 years in the business see a decline in their sales. The problem is, I don't want to see them go the same way as artists who tour but have little interest shown in the new music they produce. I think Gary still has a significant amount to give and remains a prolific songwriter - and for that reason I don't want them to call it a day just yet. I strongly believe they can be big sellers again, if they produce the right sound ( but there are so many variables in the music industry, and maybe their time has come and gone). One question I have it the direction they've taken over the past 5 years- who's been instrumental in those decisions? Has it been all three and is there anyone within their inner circle with enough authority to tell them when the songs aren't good enough. The choice of producer will also be a major factor. For lll they used a number of producers and Stuart Price for Progress. My choice would be for one producer, preferably someone like John Shanks who has a firm direction and can give the album a cohesive sound.

Elizabeth, I don't know anyone that likes Progress. The Flood was a great single and sold extremely well as it represented the TT sound, but it wasn't representative of the album as a whole, and many people have alluded to this. We acknowledge that the band isn't popular outside of the UK- no one has stated otherwise. The debate we're having is around their declining popularity in this country and not world wide. I strongly believe that Rob's return was a huge mistake for the band in the UK. They popularity was forged on the image of the four of them and the trademark sound post 2005 was a big factor in their success. They managed to pick up a new fan base as I am testament too. lll was a solid album, but I and many have pointed out that it lacked killer singles and was still too far removed from their earlier work. Following Gary's documentary with James Corden around three TT album shot back up the charts - yet within a week the tax issue reared its head and they received significant negative press. I don't know if this is still a factor but I wouldn't bet against it. It appears that the recent documentary wasn't watched by many, which suggests that interest in the band has waned. It's imperative that they produce a fantastic album this year - in the mode of BW. Their promotion, marketing and single choices must be spot on. I'm beginning to revise my views on their continuation - they'll see out 2017 with the 25 year tour and the Greatest Hits album, but if they sell badly this year I do now believe they make see 2017 as the right point at which to bow out.

Wow, I didn't expect that. I thought the documentary would have had a positive impact ! I suppose this signifies the end of the lll era; what a strange one it's been. Badly marketed and promoted after a strong start with the release of These Days. I wonder if TT have reached the point Gary referred to in the documentary - a band which generates little interest in its new material? I hope not. It certainly isn't something I would have envisaged after the massive sales of Progress. Some posters have mentioned the importance of the next album having a very strong opening single - that goes without saying, and it's probably imperative at this stage in the bands career. This is the most challenging time for the band since their return in 2005. Unfortunately with the introduction of streaming into the equation there's no guarantee they will have a number one with their first single release off the new album. They need to reconnect with the music public and recapture that winning formula and trademark TT sound. 2016 is destined to be a very interesting one!!!

Did anyone watch the Heart gig? From my stand point rather disappointing. Appears a number of songs were cut and the same set list as always..... when or when will they go outside of their comfort zone and try out some of their lesser known songs, or at least put a different spin on the best known ones!!! Here's to lots of comments and opinions in 2016 - hopefully there'll be many things to discuss :)

Happy New Year everyone!!

WYBTFM is quite simply beautiful, how can you not like it? :) Music is so subjective but for me the song represents the best elements of TT - a well crafted ballad, strong lyrically, pure locals and harmonies and some lovely orchestration. I do agree with regard to HB - any of the new songs would have been a better choice. HB evokes very strong emotions from TT fans and it's evident that many dislike the song and casual fans have been very out spoken and negative about it. I may have to cover my ears when they sing it at Hyde Park - because I doubt they'll leave it off the set list.

I love the simplicity of the verses in WYBTFM and Gary's lower range is wonderful, as are the harmonies and guitar sections. Lyrically it's fantastic and for me it's one of the strongest songs they've released to date. It just shows how special TT are in terms of versatility: ballads, mid tempo, up beat, so there's something for everyone. What I can say about CMH is the fantastic homage to the Bee Gees towards the end - brilliant. It takes me back to one of their documentary ( not sure if its' the Abbey Road session ) when they sing a snippet of a song in the style of the BG - I think they refer to it as the Gee Bees. Lovely to see all four of them so happy and relaxed. :)

Milly, I absolutely adore the song and it's fast becoming one of my all time favourites, up there with RTW. It doesn't need a fancy video, in fact , the simpler the better. I keep hoping it will be released but if I'm honest I very much doubt it. If it's not released all I can hope for is that they sing it live on tour. Unfortunately, they're a little tentative when it comes to singing new material and that's an area of their work I often criticize them for. Whilst they experiment musical they tend to keep to their staple of hits when touring. I think they sometimes underestimate their audience. I for one would have been more than happy if they'd sung some of their great B sides live and dropped a couple of their more well established songs.

The documentary is on at a good time on New Years Eve - so it will be interesting to see if that bumps up sales. Realistically sales tail off considerably in the new year, so I think this week will be the last time for any significant improvement. I would have taken a punt and released WYBTFM as a single in January. A basic video filmed in a recording studio similar to RTW would suffice. There wouldn't be any promo as Howard's will be paternity leave but at least the song would be heard by the wider public, assuming of course it gets radio play.