dylandog

Wishing everyone a very happy Christmas and New Year. For those of you travelling - safe journey. Look forward to more discussions and debates in 2016.

Kath, you'll have to let me into your smuggling technique. I always get found out even if it's a bottle of water!! Concur re TT 4 is wasn't good and fell flat. Some of the songs such as HUAL and RTW are songs that sit neatly at the end of a concert or when it's dark. I'm surprised they went with the 4, Rob, 5 pattern. Kim Gavin rarely puts a foot wrong, but in this case he did, unless the boys made it clear that's how the show had to run. In my view they should just have sung TT5 songs from their early through to later songs. If necessary they could have put one or two TT4 songs and Rob songs into the show with them all singing but they had enough material not to do that. I don't blame Rob. They would all have been involved in the decision making. I simply think it was a mistake to reform for a tour in the first place. Rob left TT for a reason; he's a solo artist through and through - hence his success. He doesn't have the make up or personality for a band and needs to be centre stage. However, I do think they could have done one mega concert for charity - that would have brought the narrative to a natural end.

Oh Pippa same to you and your family. Have a happy and peaceful Christmas.

Elisabeth, just read your latest post. Gary was instrumental in the Progress album. He clearly stated in the documentary that he'd laid down most of the tracks even before the lads got together to work on the album. Rob did not write The Flood in 2009 because when the documentary was filmed they only had some of the lyrics. It's in the documentary and that can't be disputed - they had the outline of some verses but the song was anything but complete. I liked some of the songs off Progress but preferred Progressed and I didn't like the electronic slant of many of the songs. Critically acclaimed it may have been, but I've yet to meet anyone that actually liked the album. Gary must take some responsibility but I think The Progress album damaged TT. People bought it but didn't actually like the sound or direction of it. The tour itself was their most financially successful and I concede that this is due to Rob's involvement, but I stand by my original analysis. It was a shadow of all their comebacks shows and by far their poorest live performance. It lacked heart, lightness and the wonderful dynamic so characteristic of the band was sorely missing.

I'm normally the pessimist Milly. In this case I don't see them ending it any time soon. Next year Gary will promote his musicals, they have the Hyde Park gig and I think they may do some small international shows. 2017 will be the anniversary tour and the LV residency, and possibly a new album. 2017 will therefore be full on. Howard has said they'll continue as long as people want them. Obviously that's not the case and at some point they will bow out, unless they become the pop equivalent of the Rolling Stones :) I think they will be around for some time to come and I intend to relish it for as long as possible. I may only have been a fan since 2006 but their live shows and albums have given me so much pleasure. Listening to some of the songs last night I thought - wow, what fantastic pop songs they are. Gary comes in for a lot of stick but last night he seemed genuine, appreciative and they all seemed down to earth and un affected by the trappings of fame. With regard to the documentary- I realise it was to show case the tour but I would have loved an acoustic rendition of WYBTFM at the end of the programme. I still live in hope that I'll hear it live one day!

I enjoyed the documentary. There was an underlying sadness and a recognition that it would all come to an end at some point, but also a clear appreciation of what they had. They all seemed genuinely in love with performing and aware of the fragility of what they do. For the first time I saw a more reflective, vulnerable side of Gary, but what shone through was their friendship and closeness. Jay leaving has clearly left an indelible mark on them and I think they would dearly love him to return. I watched the Progress show with trepidation and foreboding. The atmosphere was unlike any I'd previously experienced at a TT show and the lightness and joy that was so much a part of BW and The Circus was missing. I was one of a large group and we all said it was the poorest TT show we'd seen and that included the Ultimate tour. It was evident from the Progress documentary that something wasn't right with Jay - whether it related to Rob who can say, but his body language wasn't always comfortable to watch when Rob was around. I think Gary took his eye off the ball as far as Jay was concerned. He was the one reluctant to return and was obviously sensitive about his lack of song writing skills and involvement in the production side of things. His solos in the BW and The Circus were a massive step forward and the lads clearly worked on building up his confidence. He slipped back into the shadows during the Progress tour to an extent where, aside from the dance off with Howard, he was almost invisible. This may very well have been his own choice, but it was clear that the dynamics had considerably changed, and not for the better. When Howard and Jay missed so much of the promotion is was clear something wasn't right. I believe Howard missed interviews so the spot light wasn't directed solely at Jay. I remember reading some stories about discourse in the camp during the tour but I ignored them as simply media hype and scare mongering. However, given what transpired there is a question mark around what exactly occurred during those few years the band reformed as a five.

Sorry for all my typos - my key board has been sticking for months. I should proof read more carefully. Shopping this afternoon at two different large supermarkets. Visited the music/DVD section of each one to look for family presents and neither had the TT DVD on their shelves. It certainly isn't being marketed strongly. It will be interesting to see if sales pick up after the TV show.

The DVD is good but I miss the back stage stuff so next week will be interesting to see. I'm often critical of Mark's voice in particular but as least he sounds exactly the same live as on a recording. If I was to critique the show I'd say it lacked some of the softness and quieter moments of BW. I would have liked a 2 or 3 ballad section in the vein of Flaws to draw the audience in and gives us a breather from the assault of the visuals. They could have had an acoustic version of Higher Than Higher with something from the old repertoire, such one of the slow B sides/Butterfly or WCIWUWU. The show went by so, so quickly that they could have held the crowds attention for another 15 minutes quite easily.

There is something infectious about the three of them together. They appear to be having the time of their lives and they've never seemed happier than in this past year, which is strange in one way because of the significant drop in their sales. Our views are obviously based on guesswork but I believe they wanted Rob back to make amends and not for any inroads into Europe, but Rob wanted the reunion for mostly selfish reasons - nothing with alter my opinion on that. Believe it or not Elisabeth, but TT really are fantastic live , whether it be a high end production or a stripped back show. They've deserved every live award in recent years for invention, production and a high commitment to their performance. I've also seen GB twice and he was excellent both times, with little or no production, just his voice, the band and a piano. I've seen a number of artists, many of whom have been lauded by critics and high acclaimed in musical circles and none have come close to TT for overall pop performance. In fact some, such as Van Morrison, should hang their heads in shame for their shambolic, low energy approach and the general contempt they've shown to their audience. The lll tour was very good, not the quality of BW or The Circus, but still a wonderful unforgettable live show. And yes the award relates to UK shows, but does that make it less deserving?

I still don't understand what turned you against TT, Kath, or more specifically GB? Their music is still strong, although nowhere near the quality of 2006/2009. As your dislike stemmed from a period prior to the tax issue I really struggle to see what GB did that was so abhorrent to make you feel so negative about him? I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel the way you do, just that I can't think of reasons why you would. Agree about the residency. I did say it was a bad move regardless of any financial benefits. I would have preferred a number of small shows across the US, for example, New York, Boston, LA for fans who would have loved the opportunity for an intimate show. There's no way they'll break into the American market so the main reason for the residency must be a financial one. However, I have said that in their present formation they appear keen to try new things, so may I should give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume it's all based on monetary gain. :)

Don't underestimate Rob. I think he'd consider a Vegas residency because it's close to home and it's a big financial earner. Although to be fair to him I don't think he's that bothered about US success and quite likes the anonymity of living there. I do hope it's only the three of them. They've continued without Rob and Jay and that can't have been easy. No one will ever, ever convince me than Rob didn't use them in 2010. He was struggling big time with his confidence and his reputation as a live performer had taken a big dent following a previous tour. He would have gone up in my estimation if he'd joined them in 2006 or before the BW tour, but he waited until after the colossal Circus tour, when he thought TT were finally big enough to warrant his involvement. His speech in the documentary about being bored with himself and having nothing else to say... sorry but I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now. In my view Rob's return in 2010 was the biggest mistake made by the band in spite of the financial gain his involvement garnered and I don't believe Howard or Jay were ever completely comfortable with it. On a positive note TT have been voted No 1 tour on Ticketmaster for 2015.

Twitter may have something to do with it, even so the number of foreign fans is still extremely small. More than ever I'm also coming to the conclusion that Jay held them back. He always appeared to be the least motivated with regard to performing and promotion and their long hiatus was due to Jay's reluctance to continue. It may simply be the three of them believe they've achieved everything in the UK and now is the time for them to experience different things; hence the sudden appearances at festivals. They may simply want to thank their small band of international fans who have remained loyal because I don't believe they think they will achieve international success this late in their careers. They look like they're having the time of their lives, and I guess in many ways that's the most important thing.

Thanks, Milly. Had a quick listen and I also like Gary singing Stronger. Eliot and Gary have produced a well rounded group of songs for this musical. Not quite sure why it came into so much hate from the critics - I've heard far weaker songs in many, many successful musicals.

If they play around with songs Mark and Howard would be able to contribute more. The Flood is an example of how they've incorporated all three voices and I think this is the way to go. I get really frustrated with them for their lack of adventure and their insistence on keeping to the same songs. The Heart gig is a case to answer. From what I've read they didn't change the song list and it would have been an ideal opportunity to sing the new songs off lll and some B sides- but they didn't. I'm going to the Hyde Park gig next year and I'll be spitting feathers if they keep to the same song list. I would also like some new arrangements for the old classics. I liked the arrangement for AMLS which I think was from the Home Town tour? They all have poor diction at certain times ( although Gary only has the occasional lapse )but Mark is dreadful in this regard as he's northern accent is very flat. It's one of the key reasons I struggle to listen to me, unless it's the right song. Their harmonies are indeed one of their key strengths. I watched X Factor on the weekend for the first time this season and was shocked at how weak ID were harmonizing. TT put them to shame in this regard and performance wise ID were quite poor - confused as to how popular they are in the States and world wide. I haven't heard Gary's demos from FN except for one, as I think they were taken down. Any idea where I can hear the song list, Milly?

Agreed on many of these points. TT are a very 'British' band. The naff dance routines work because the fans know the 'history' and have been on a journey with the band, so accept the tongue in cheek elements. American audience wont have the benefit of this, so I can't see dance routines forming a big part of the show. Gary's solo tours work because essentially he is a musician and doesn't need to rely on production. They'll need to tow a very fine line between musicianship and showmanship with Vegas and Gavin will be instrumental in getting the balance right from the production side of things. As for it being a vanity project - who knows. They all seem very keen to try new avenues so perhaps this is simply an extension of that. Would they have done this project if Jay was still around, I think not. Personally, I've laid my cards on the table and I don't think it's a good idea. I would much prefer them to concentrate on a new album with a return to their signature sound with lots of promotion lined up in the UK and Europe. I can't see how they'll break the US market at this point in their career as there doesn't appear to be a niche for them - but what an achievement it would be for them if they succeed against all odds. Alternatively, they could come out of it with egg on their faces, a little older and wiser and cynically - much richer!!

Oh Elisabeth regarding reviews - I suggest you stay clear of a review of Rob's show this year in New Zealand. It's a hum dinger but I have to say I admire Rob's fierce defence of his talent. I wouldn't fancy the reviewers chances in a face to face with him, that man has spirit and determination, if nothing else :) I know I tend to be cautious and more than a little pessimistic, but in this case I really do have my doubts. Americans may struggle to understand their accents and I agree Kath, Mark's voice is a very acquired taste and given the right song he sounds fine, but my, oh my, he can also murder a song into submission. I'm not sure the American market will take to his sound, or Howard's voice for that matter. Gary has more of a transatlantic sound so may get away with it. I simply cannot see them holding down a residency. Tourists will keep it afloat for a period of time but they simply don't have a high enough profile. If they stick to the classic they may have a fighting chance, include songs off lll or many of the electronic sounding songs off Progress and they'll sink without a trace. I also equate Vegas with performers past their best - looking for their last big pay check. So for me I'm kind of sad that they've gone down this route.

There will be a significant contingent of UK and to a lesser extent European fans for the first few weeks which may sustain sales, but you make a good point Milly, word of mouth will be essential for an extended run. US promoters are brutal and will pull the show quickly if it's making a loss. I've noticed an interesting dynamic since the departure of Jay. The band seem far more amenable to international projects and tours. I may be way off beam but I think Jay was reluctant to tour at all. The back stage documentary from BW was an interesting insight into how they approached touring and Jay appeared quite dour and down beat about it. I like Jay very much and miss him from the band; however, I'm not sure he has a strong work ethic/ambition, hence the 'mooching around on park benches.' :)

While I get what you're saying, Elisabeth, I sometimes think you do them a disservice. Yes, their shows are massive productions but their small, intimate shows are just as good, if not better. Their session at Abbey Road is testament to their musicality and the quality of their songs. I understand people don't like their music but they are legitimate songwriters and are fully involved in the production side of their music which isn't the case with many pop artists. However, I have my doubts about the success of a LV residency as they are so unknown. HW may have been influential in securing the deal but he doesn't have the power to put 'bums on seats' and ultimately that will be the deciding factor.

Well, well - I still think it's a couple of shows - I can't believe it's a residency. Can you imagine the boys being away from their families for months at a time? No, convinced it's a short stint in Vegas and nothing more. That said, it's still a coup for the lads - well done to them all. I'm now convinced next year could well be the one when international fans get a chance to see them - which will be absolutely wonderful for so many years of loyalty.

I don't believe it and until there's an official announcement from TT I'll remain skeptical. I do think they may be planning one or two shows for the US fans, but a residency is another matter. To secure one performers need to be very well known in the American market and investors will be very reluctant to pay massive sums which go with a residency to unknown artists, regardless of UK success. However, this era has been a strange one so anything's possible :)

I think it was released quite some time ago, Pippa. There's a cast album and a various artist one. I don't buy off line but I did try and buy the cast album, but unfortunately I haven't managed to find it in the shops. I've also noticed that Gary rubs his hands and plays with his fingers rather a lot and it's most obvious when he's being interviewed. It must be his way of dealing with his nerves. I think Mr Barlow might be a little bit of a ' liar, liar, pants on fire.' :)

Oh bless him! I know Gary says he doesn't get nervous but he obviously was here. I think in parts he also tried to 'posh up' his accent - so funny :) Thanks for that, Milly.

I've offered to cover some of the Christmas week but the 23rd will be my last working day as we've been given the 24th off as an additional bank holiday. So I will have 5 days off. I just about remember those university day, Milly. I once stayed awake for two whole days, went to lectures , completed course work and was still able to string a sentence together at the end of it. Now, if I'm not in bed at a certain time, the next morning I shuffle around not knowing what day it is - oh, to be young again.:)

Crikey, Milly what a dedicated fan! As long as it's no later I'll stay up and watch but have work the following day so I'd never manage to stay up past 12. Hope it's good and I'd like to hear one of the new songs performed on the show. I've a suspicion that Gary may also have something lined up for The Girls Musical.

Sorry, Milly , it does seem the time is that late. However, it will be on the IPlayer service, which I know isn't ideal but better than nothing. The time is disappointing but at least some people will stay up and watch it. They may show it again at a different time so it could be on again in the holiday period during the day time or earlier in the evening - trying to be positive. :)