dylan62

Don't remind me Milly. I'm trying to erase them from my memory :)

Sorry Pippa. Someone voted and I assumed it was you because of your post. :) When it comes to tours TT have made a rod for their own back. The balance was right for the Ultimate Tour and BW Tour and The Circus tour was such a magnificently well constructed show that it didn't necessarily over shadow the music. The problem did however stem from that tour. Because the production was so immense they assumed that people would expect bigger and better with each tour and they're now stuck with a dilemma. Do they go for a massive production because many come to see them for that very reason, or do they tone it down and possibly risk the wrath of those expecting a big show? The balance wasn't right with Progress and in hind sight I don't think it was for III either. Hyde Park demonstrated that they could perform to a large crowd without a huge production. That show was rather muted production wise, some dancers but limited dance routines. What they did very cleverly was to up the light show which looked so beautiful as night fell. I think the anniversary show will have a huge production. If they tour before that I'd like them to go for a more simple acoustic set /production as a contrast to other tours. The SISYL tour proved that fans/general public will love the show if the music is right. Gary's show was understated aside from the gorgeous suspended lights - it goes to show they don't need an elaborate set.

Agree, Jay. I wasn't a fan of Portrait and thought if fell flat in the show. The flying bike was visually great and HTH would have been a far better choice. I think Mike Stevens tweeted something about the song being tried out but for whatever reason it never made the final set list.

Surprised you went for BW, Pippa. For some reason I expected you to vote for The Circus era. I'd forgotten about the Abbey Road release, wasn't that wonderful? If the Abbey Road DVD had aired on TV I've no doubt it would have had a massive impact on their album sales. The reason I love the BW tour is actually the simplicity of it. Whilst there were some stand out moments the music took centre stage, and aside from the 'lap dance' section I adored every bit of that concert. The centre stage part with EC and CIBM was quite beautiful. I loved the production for RTW and in spite of my general dislike of RLMF the BW production is in my view their strongest live performance of that song. If you remember they also did the New Year show at the 02 which aired on TV - good promotion yet again. I loved An Audience With - my only issue was the dance routine for Shine. I thought it was cringe worthy and they certainly didn't look comfortable performing it. The show itself was fab and they all came across so well. That era was marketed superbly - I do wonder what's gone wrong since then?

It's never been a fantastic show, but it's got worse as time's gone on. I will say that TT regularly perform on the show which I find somewhat strange because The Brits seem apathetic towards them at best certainly in terms of actual awards. They introduced the Best Live Act award which TT won and then quickly withdrew it. I think there's a Best Video award now which TT would never win. I wasn't keen on TT's performance of LITS. I actually would have preferred Higher Than Higher at the Brits, but I seem to be out of kilter with the bands song choices at the moment.

Can't see either happening, Milly. As far as the IN awards are concerned they've moved on to newer artists and unless TT secure a massive selling single it will be difficult to gain their attention. In terms of the Brits I may be wrong, but the only award given to them by the industry was Best Group. All their other awards have been voted for by the public - I think that's very telling. I haven't watched The Brits properly for many years. I watched TT's most recent performance but many of the artists aren't on my radar. Dislike the fact that the audience is no longer front of the stage which makes the show seem even more corporate led than before, lacking in any sense of atmosphere or vitality.

This is an easy decision for me. As much as I love the Circus era - fab album and an amazing tour, BW wins hands down. A brilliant comeback album full of wonderful songs, great promotion/marketing, a fantastic tour /DVD and a brilliant initial release in Patience. At this point they were also releasing quality B sides. 2006 was when I became a TT fan and for me the period when all four appeared strongest as a unit, to such an extent I never imagined that within 6 years the 2012 Olympics would be Jay's last public performance:(

Extremely unlikely, Pippa. I very much doubt TT will ever be recipients of this award. Only two previous British artists have received the ICON - given only to those deemed to have made a considerable and lasting impact on British music/culture. The Brits have never favoured TT, and I don't see their 25th anniversary changing that.

I don't normally follow the singles chart but out of the blue James Arthur has secured a No1 with little promotion as far as I can tell. I like the song, Ed Sheeran like and quite under stated. It just goes to show it can be done. I understand his sales are around 80,000 plus. 40,000 based on downloads and 4 million plus through streaming which brings the overall total to around the 80,000 mark. Streaming will obviously be the downfall for many established artists and unfortunately TT will be one of them. There's some Radio 2 award show coming up and Gary's name is down on the list, but at this stage I'm not sure in what capacity. It may well be he's giving out an award. Shame TT aren't performing - it would come at the right time.

SISYL was a good strategy and fun to watch the album cover slowly exposed as time went on as well. Hopefully they'll think more clearly about the marketing this time around. It's vital the video is available when the single drops. I don't understand why they schedule the filming for their videos so late into the process.

Oh please, please, please let the next song be a good one!!! A lovely little ballad will suit me down to the ground- boring as that sounds. Not long to wait and I think Gary has also tweeted about possible tour news at the end of this month. I think they'll use a similar strategy as last time with people who pre-order the album having priority tickets for the tour.

No problem, Milly. All in all I think the best strategy for me is to stay clear of posting anything which involves Rob. I'll stick to criticising TT3 :)

Elisabeth/Laura I've never intended to suggest that Rob fans were in any way 'idiots', I don't think anyone has intended to do that. Comments made have often been in response to posts and most have been opinions regarding his current single (which is of course a subjective thing) and mostly his stage persona which by and large is factual because he does do the things I've alluded to in my posts. I'm a little upset to think that people perceive any of my comments as nasty (I certainly didn't mean them to be), so I wont post any comments about Rob on this thread in the future. I wont even comment on Rob when he returns to TT. Hopefully that will placate Rob/TT5 fans who come onto the forum, as I'd like to think it's open to Gary and TT 3/4/5 fans to enjoy and participate in.

Some of my friends have been known to call me 'Doris Day :) Although some of you are probably too young to know who she is !!! I don't think any of us on this forum set out to be mean, we just get carried away sometimes. I just hope TT bring out a fab single and fantastic album - fed up of being critical of their work of late.

Elisabeth did you actually read my post? I clearly stated that Rob was considerably wealthier than the others and far more popular and I've congratulated him on his longevity. I clearly stated that I wasn't putting Gary in the same league as Sinatra or Ella - so I'm somewhat confused - although these days it doesn't take much :) Neither was I saying that Gary was on par with Billy Joel, merely pointing out that I don't find these kind of performers boring. I don't see how you can defend Rob when it comes to his treatment of Gary. I accept that Gary didn't always treat the lads well in the 90's but he didn't publicity humiliate or try and crush them either - there's a considerable difference in the way Rob behaved to Gary and vice versa. I have a right to my opinion on Rob as a performer and song writer ( as you also do re Gary and TT) and in my view his new song is dire, but I said the same about Hey Boy so I don't see any bias in my approach. I don't think my critique of Rob on the GN was done in a nasty way - more tongue in cheek I thought, but sorry if you thought I over stepped the mark.

Crikey I just caught about 30 seconds of Rob on the GN show. I saw the bit where he went over to the woman in the audience and sat on her knee. I couldn't take anymore and turned over. Apparently he told a rather risqué story which I fortunately missed. Judging from twitter most preferred his naughty story to the actual song . Rob's a god send for TV chat shows :) Elisabeth I'd hazard a guess that Rob will still be up there performing at the grand old age of 80!!! Either that or he'll be living in a stars retirement home with Gary, telling his naughty jokes and twerking at the nurses with Gary mumbling to himself and shaking his head in desperation. And, having listened to small clip of the song on the GN show I stand by my first assessment of it - it's pants.

Rob is far richer than Gary, Pippa. Do you recall Rob's remark when he came out of the record company's office having secured something like an 80 million dollar/pound deal? He shouted along the lines of: ' I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams.' I also recall him making a comment not that many years ago along the lines of 'but I'm richer than you' - directed at Gary, although I think it was tongue in cheek :) Gary was wealthier than the other boys at the time of the bands split in 1995/6 including Rob due to his song writing royalties, but once Rob achieved solo success his wealth quadrupled. He's been touring extensively throughout the 90's onwards and as Elisabeth has stated he's a stadium filling solo artist around the world. It's mind boggling to see the crowds he pulls in. Milly will know more than I about this, but I was staggered to see the size of the crowd for an open air concert of his in Romania back last year. The other boys haven't made that much - well compared to many others in the music business. By no means are they paupers, but their wealth is significantly less that Rob and Gary. Having said that Mark, Howard and Jay for that matter will have earned far more since the comeback than they did in the 90's because of the money generated from their tours 2005 onwards.

Well done Rob - as a performer he's one of the most popular, I don't think any of us would dispute that fact. However, I find him incredibly over bearing and false - sorry but I do. Give me a performer like Gary, understated, musical and at one with the music any day of the week, but I accept I'm in the minority. Having been raised by parents who listened to Ella, Sinatra, and other classical performers (by the way I'm not saying Gary is in their league) I don't consider someone sitting at a piano boring. Watching performers like Billy Joel, for example, is a joy and a cut above someone thrusting his crotch , swearing and gurning their way through a show. Gary is very generous towards Rob - in my opinion far more than he deserves, but ultimately they've made their peace with each other which is lovely to see. That said, Rob was vile, absolutely vile to Gary and gloated at his demise - something I find detestable. I also find Rob's views and comments about women he's had past relationships with unbecoming and coarse for a man of his age. Elisabeth, I don't think you're going to get any compromise from either Milly or myself where Rob's concerned. :)

I agree Pippa. I think acts like Rob and TT are probably now resigned to tanking in the singles chart. They're pinning all their hopes on healthy album sales. It's such a shame that streaming is having such an impact and quality singles aren't getting the recognition they deserve -by the way I'm not including Rob's present single in that last sentence. It seems a strange song to choose for the lead single. Whatever you and I think of Rob Milly he is undoubtedly viewed as one of the foremost performers of his generation, although in my view he has been given an easy ride by the press throughout his career.

I've only managed to find fan videos so the quality isn't great. Is there an official video doing the rounds? I thought he sounded fine on many of the songs. Some bum notes here and there but Rob's always been inconsistent. In fact his voice sounds better than it has for some time. I'll try and find some quality videos so the sound is clearer. Whilst I play down Rob's voice I do think it's better than Mark or Howard's if I'm absolutely honest :)

I haven't watched any of his Apple concert so may give it a whirl. I'll listen rather than look. It's interesting Elisabeth a while ago I clicked onto Rob's performance of Candy on the X Factor show. I didn't watch it just listened to the audio. Whilst I know it wasn't the best example because he was larking about but the vocals were utterly woeful, staggeringly shocking. I'll listen to the Apple concert impartially but although I don't listen to Rob very much his vocals do seem to have significantly deteriorated in recent years. I honestly think that his charisma and stage persona deflect from his more than questionable vocals.

How can you hear auto tune , Milly? I've never been able to tell the difference, although apparently there are signs to look out for. I thought Rob's voice sounded ok - it will be interesting to see how it goes on GN. I think it was recorded last night. I do like the orchestration but unsure what input if any he's had into that side of things. Parts have a bond like feel. Don't shot me but I prefer it to Hey Boy :) I hope the TT lads go for a purer and gentler sound.

I do think Rob has an interesting take lyrically. His song writing offers some insight into his mind set :) He does take chances, I'll give him that. Does he actually input anything in terms of the score/music? I'm assuming not, but maybe someone can confirm this. I haven't heard any of Rudebox outside of the initial single - I thought many critics liked the album? Rob normally receives good reviews from the music press - in contrast to TT :) Rob seems to have a new lease of life since the TT reunion in 2010 and he's been relentless in terms of self promotion and touring which has kept his profile high.

It may be experimental with a mixture of different sounds. If he's doing well with pre-orders he has a strong initial fan base who'll buy the album without hearing it first. If the album isn't commercial/strong then sales with plummet after the initial week. Rob's sales remain strong because he sells world wide with the exception of some countries such as the US and my estimate would be in the region of 1 -2 million for this album. TT are at a distinct disadvantage as their fan base is primarily the UK with much smaller sales in some European countries. Consequently they will never equal Rob's sales. Not sure what figures were for Rob's last album in the UK, guessing in the region of 700,000. He's also very popular in the German market which adds considerably to his overall sales figures.

Jay, I've just posted on the other link :) Good for Rob - I don't get his popularity but fair play, he's maintained his popularity around much of the world for over 20 years.