De Niro

1. The Flood After the blandness of ‘Shame’ I was dreading hearing another collab between Rob and Gary (it appeared that the song was pretty much done and dusted before the others arrived in the NY recording studio from the docu) until I heard ‘Heart & I’ which I think is fantastic. And while ‘The Flood’ isn’t as good and H&I it’s a vast improvement on Shame. Very good verses, bridge and polished chorus. RTW aside it is my fave TT single since the comeback. Looking forward to seeing it on the XF tonight – 7.5/10 2. SOS Really enjoyable uptempo tune with Mark and Rob – an obvious single choice I would think. Love the edgier/rockier sound to this one and the vocals of Rob and Mark blend very well together giving the track a lot of energy. Only downfall is some of Mark’s vocals which grate just a tad. Top tune though. – 8.5/10 3. Wait This is a good but not great song. The verses are very Robbie and reminiscent of many of his previous work – the chorus is sounds almost like it is from a different song but due to how well it is produced it works very well. Some cool lyrics too about the band. – 7.5/10 4. Kidz One of my faves on the album. It’s a mixture between Feel Good Inc, Uprising and Sunnny Afternoon and it works very well. Much prefer Mark’s vocals on this compared to SOS and I love the build up to the chorus with Rob. A really well written tune overall and a worthy choice of the second single. 9/10 5. Pretty Things The first slower tune on the album with a fantastic vocal by Rob. Reminds me of quite a number of his solo album tracks actually. Has Bowie (Hunky Dory era) sound to it which I enjoy. Could easily fit onto many of Rob’s solo albums – but for different reason o the electro tunes – 8/10 6. Happy Now A strange song. The verses are like many songs from Rudebox and RKTVS – similar vocal delivery to WTPSB – also reminds me of LDOD – then Gary comes in with a very Barlow-esq Bridge into a big chorus. It all works well initially but then I feel by the time the third chorus arrives I am sick of hearing the lyric ‘I feel myself falling, I’m feeling happy now’ over and overall and it starts dragging on a bit. It’s a song with a strong verse and bridge but let down by a repetitive chorus IMO. Still enjoyable though – 7/10 7. Underground Machine The seventh song in a row with Rob on vocals and probably the most ‘solo Robbie’ tune on the album. I LOVE this song – rockier Robbie full of energy, confidence and attitude – something that was missed on RKTVS IMO. I love the music, the lyrics and his vocal. Easily one of my faves on the album – it’s just SO Robbie. My only problem with is the start of the chorus – the “when a boys meets a girl’ etc – it wasn’t a good ideal singing that in a slight falsetto Imo – it’s annoys me a little but other than that I really love this tune. Reminds me of ‘Break America’ and it’s the type of style I have missed Rob doing. – 9/10 8. What Do You Want From Me Sorry to say I’m with the critics on this – not a big fan at all. Good music, quite a good melody but the lyrics are really naff and cheesy. “I still wanna have sex with you”? I mean REALLY? :lol: I appreciate how personal it is for Mark and I am all up for autobiographical tunes but I just don’t feel this works. It’s not awful but just a little but naff. 5/10 9. Affrimation I find this an odd choice of song to include. It’s a bit throw-away really. It’s not bad but not great either. Perhaps if Rob or Mark were singing it – it might work a bit better. I just don’t think Howard voice suits this sort of vast tempo song. It should have been the hidden track instead of Jay’s song IMO – 5/10 10. Eight Letters The only solo Gary track on the album, presumably he wrote the music on the piano and Rob the lyrics/melody. I know I am bias but I think Rob’s original verison of the song as we saw on the docu last night, which Gas said was f***in ace was far better suited as he put much more emotion into it and gave the lyrics much more meaning. They became much more noticeable – but I suppose that makes sense seeing how he wrote them and seemed very passionate about them. It is odd that Gary would sing it –perhaps Rob felt he had sung on the majority of the songs and Gary should sing on at least one on his own – but really with only 11 songs on the album – I would have thought Gary would have preferred to have his solo be a song he wrote mainly himself. Wasn’t there one he was singing last night that isn’t on the album? I really do find it odd that there are so few tracks. I hope for an alternative version of the track at some stage. It’s a ‘nice’ song with some very good lyrics but not one I would choose to listen to on a regular basis if I’m honest. 7/10 11. Flowerbed. I really like this one. It’s an interesting song and sort of reminds me of a Liam Gallagher penned ballad – mixed with a bit of Cat Stevens. I don’t get why it is a hidden track.Not exactly fair on Jason when every other member of the band has a solo track and considering how short the album is anyway. It’s far better than Howard’s song and Jay’s voice, while now powerful, is also better, especially the tone. Deserves to be on the album. 8/10 Overall I have to say it's a bloody good album. And most important - it's actually a very interesting record which is something I never thought I would say. I was dreading Rob going back with TT for endless reason I won't go into now, and even though I knew he would put his own stamp on the music, I expected it to be limited to the lyrics and the songs to just sound like the last two TT albums - thankfully that is not the case and in many way this is the type of album Rob would have wanted to make had he chose to do a follow up to RKTVS this year. It's more experimental and he didn't have to compromise by putting songs on for the sake of pleasing others. This album comes across as a much of lads having a great time and being creatively at the top of their game. His stamp is on this album far more than anyone anticipated I think and it's only now that I have heard the album that I understand why he is so excited about the project. Well doe to Gary for having the balls to want to totally change direction and try something fresh and new - i think Rob being back gave them all the confidence to do so - and in turn Rob's confidence built up through-out. It's one of the best albums I've heard in the last couple of years and I hope it sells really well and doesn break records as it deserves it. Well done to all five lads - they have surprised me and come up with an album I can genuinely enjoy listening to.

I really enjoyed it tbh. It was very different than what I imagined it would be. For starters there wasn't much joy or fun or lots of laughs - it was a very serious account of the situation. Far more so than I expected. I felt sorry for Rob at the start - he seemed so fragile and nervous - he has always been the total opposite as a person to when he is Robbie Williams the pop star but he really did not seem very well mentally at all. When you compare those NY sessions from over 18 months ago to recently with the interviews with Gary and now with the others - his confidence has come back hugely and he is much more comfortable so that is one great thing at least. I felt all five of the lads came accross very well, although Howard really didn't seem as interested in the whole process as much as the others. Perhaps this is normal for him, I don't know tbh but it was odd how he just left to go and DJ in Germany when they were in the middle of writing the album. :lol: Jason came across well too I felt - very intelligent and although slightly uncomfortable, his exchange with Rob with regard to the lyrics of 'Eight Letters' was very interesting. I enjoyed Rob defending what he had created and explaining line by line as to why he was proud of it - it was refreshing to see him like that. Gary came across well too and clearly helped Rob along a lot by encouraging him, and even defending Rob to Jason re. the lyrics by saying something along the lines of 'unless you can bring something better to the table - which was true but I did feel a bit sorry for Jason too. Sort of being shafted although it was true he wasn't coming up with any alternative lyric. Mark also came across as likeable although I did feel the way his cheating on his wife and then the rehab was portrayed in a way where it was his 'difficult time' and he should have sympathy which I found a bit distasteful if I'm totally honest. I really enjoyed the part where Elton John popped into the studio to compliment them all to then be essentially kicked out by Rob because Rob had a footie match to be at in an hour and they wanted to get on with it. :lol: I am sure though it was edited in that way. Anyone know how much longer the full film is that will be on the special edition of the album? Would be interesting to see what was left off this edited version. The part with 8 Letters was interesting. Rob was so passionate about the lyrics, and sung them in the studio with such emotion and meaning, yet Gary sings it on the album? What an odd decision. I assume Gaz wrote the music and Rob wrote the lyrics and melody but I do hope there is an alternative version (should have been the B-side to 'The Flood' IMO) as although Gary is a very good singer, his vocal makes it sound more like a slushy love song and doesn't really make me sit up and take notice to how personal the lyrics are. I'll also say that although I am not a fan of Gary's voice - it is ridiculous that he only has one lead on the album - it only has 10 proper tracks - they should have put Flowerbed' as a proper track along with three or four other songs - being Gary solo's and then leave Rob to sing 8 Letters. I fully understand that Rob gets the most vocals on this album but after hearing him sing the song last night I really feel strongly that it was a wrong decision for Gary to sing it . But again I am not saying Gary shouldn't have had a solo song - quite the opposite. I just think there should have been more tracks on he album to enable that - what about that song he was singing on his own in the documentary - why wasn't that on the album? Overall it was very interesting to watch. Would have liked a little more about the creative process but hopefully there is more of that in the unedited version.

Very true - that is a shame really. Hopefully it won't effect their performance in any way, especially if it only makes #3. I hope the performance goes very smoothly because I really do think if there are any problems (Rob better not forget lyrics ;) ) the media will have the knives at the ready - they have been very much on TT's side since the comeback but you never know, with Rob back (who most of the tabloids hate, especially The Mirror) they may see it as an opening to try and turn public opinion. It won't work obviously, but if the performance does not go very well - the mixture between that and the single failing to reach #1 they may try and start their crap the week of the album release and put people off. Hopefully not but they do just love to build people up and bring them down :rolleyes: With regard to airplay - it depends. Very little isnt going to translate into sales but too much can have a negative effect too which is likely what is happening in the UK.

Yeah I must say I have hardly heard The Flood at all on Irish radio. I wonder what number it is on our airplay charts? I have heard Shame far more often and that is saying something. <_< It's still surprising that it only made #8 though. :blink:

It only enters at #8 in Ireland today :o :o :o

Kidz is influenced by Muse' last album imo - just listen to 'Uprising' - and it is clear (to me anyway) that it influenced the lads a lot when writing this particular track. ^_^

I wonder what Rob has done with his £130M fortune? :o He has been wearing that black outfit at every given opportunity for weeks now - actually dating back to the HFH gig and has seemingly not taken it off since :rofl: Thanks for the link. Will listen later. Really hope there is some proper discussion with regard to the album and not just the usual lazy questions about the meet up in Rob's house and watching the Circus DVD etc etc etc.

No you are right - it is a similar melody at the start. Kidz is a very good tune - well any song with elements of Muse and The Kinks would be :D

Thanks for all the reviews - I will read them in full later. I did real Neil's review though and enjoyed his summing up of the album. As he says he is not TT's target audiences but enjoyed the album due to the change of direction - I am the same. The album is very enjoyable, especially SOS, Kidz and Underground Machine :D Also enjoying Happy Now and Pretty Things - and to a lesser extent 'Wait' :D

Things are going very well and it is exceeding expectations. Likely to be in the top 10 in it;s fifth week in the forth quarter of the year is very impressive for any album, especially a second GH. It's total should be near or over 240K by Sunday and considering how much sales overall increase in the run up to Xmas I don't think 400K is out of the question before the end of the year. :D

Sunny Afternoon. :heart:

Excellent reviews all around it appears, although the DM did give some songs lowish scores - and they are dead wrong with regard to both SOS and Underground Machine. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/12/article-1328974-0C07D318000005DC-403_306x326_popup.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/12/article-1328974-0C07D450000005DC-44_306x824.jpg

Really? The music and melody the overall style of Kidz is VERY Muse IMO, especially when compared to a track such as 'Uprising'. :o

I have already said exactly that. I think that is highly likely tbh which is a 'Shame' (pun fully intended ) :smoke:

I am positive the majority of the casual fans who bought the albums because they were pure pop and ballads (perfect blend to have in the background at a dinner party with their friends for example) will be more than horrified at more than just a few of the tracks. The likes of SOS, Kidz and Underground Machine (all three remind me of Break America in different parts of the melodies) will not sit well with a lot of the casual fans, many the types that would only buy one or two albums a year - the others probably Westlife or Boyzone. Even though it isn't quite as 'out there' at material on Rudebox - it is going to shock their more casual fans far more than Rudebox did Rob's more casual because TT have with the two comeback albums very much stuck to winning formula that is safe and that gives their target audience exactly what they want - Robbie's albums prior to Rudebox had always been far more diverse, with many different types of tracks - some very rockier tracks - and especially many of the B-sides - some of which are were totally bonkers - so in many ways it wasn't a huge shock. But Progress is a huge change in sound overall. They will certainly gain more fans and get far more critical acclaim (as we have already seen so far with the reviews which have been very positive) but I think the overall 'masses' that tend to buy TT albums will not find what they are looking for here - as most of the songs are not even in the genre they would choose to listen to if it were any other artist. For that reason, and also if they release Kids or SOS as the next single it won't be getting the massive sales in the lead up to XF that The Circus experienced. I do think that when they eventually start promoting in Europe it will prove to be far more successful than the previous two albums. BW sold 400-500K outside the UK/Ireland and TC sold 200-300K - I can see this selling well over 500K IF promoted properly. I am really liking those tracks you mentioned - I always knew Rob and Mark would make a great team coming up with an edgier rockier type of tracks as they both suit that sound. Their voices work very well together - although even though I like his voice on the songs - Mark has the type of voice I like in small doses - some of his vocal on SOS grates just slightly. I prefer his vocal on Kidz - which is the next single apparently. It has a great Muse sound to it. I am not surprised the critics don't like his solo on What Do You Want From Me? - some of the lyrics are a bit much. How was it written before his marriage problems though? :lol:

The Flood has dropped to #7 on Itunes. :o This is seriously shocking. If their wider fan base (ie. the masses, not the die-hards on the forums) are not liking The Flood that much than they are going to be in for the shock of their lives when they hear the album as The Flood is without question one of the more commercial anthemic radio friendly TT sounding tunes on there. I'd imagine the choice of second single is being re-considered, especially if they were going to go for Kidz which was rumored. I can imagine a lot of the management/record company scratching their heads - along with the five lads. I still think it will have a huge increase in sales after the Docu (which will be seen by over 8M in all likely hood), the XF and then CIN on Friday. The main prob is the the album is out next week too so the majority will just buy that instead. They made a MASSIVE mistake bringing the single forward but not bothering bringing the promo forward too - and they are paying for that mistake big time now. TBH I find it a little ironic that when Bodies came out and was only #2 everyone and their dog said it was a flop and Rob neded to get back with TT to revive his career - he then gets back with TT and what happens? The reunion single sold 10K less than Bodies on the first set of midweeks, is only #7 on Itunes and will be very lucky is it clears the 90K first week Bodies did. :lol: It will be a travesty if it doesn't even make #2 - the idea of Shame charting higher is too laughable to contemplate :lol:

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I based the 70% claim on what Obama said himself. I know one shouldn't believe what a politician says but he said it as though it was a fact(also says he keeps his list of election promises in his pocket at all times) so I assumed it was. There is a big difference between 25 and 70% - I suppose though he might be including policies that have not been completed yet. Who is the favourite for the Republican nomination then? Palin seems pretty sure she will be getting it. You are correct though - even the Republicans would not be THAT stupid but she is bound to run on her own anyway. :lol:

Listening to 'Happy Now' now - the melody to the verses are so Robbie - the bridge is very Gary and the chorus seems to be a joint effort - I am talking about writing, as obviously this is the case vocally. It's a nice mixture of the styles that blends well together IMO. It does appear that a lot of it is whoever is singing certain lines has their stamp on the melody too and it shows, which is something I like. The only issue I have with Happy Now is that about 3/4 in it starts dragging on a bit.

I have already said I think all five five of them worked together to create it - never did I say Rob wrote it on his own. But similarly comments praising Gary's songwriting for the whole effort is quite ridiculous to put it mildly. Rob certainly didn't creative Electro-pop :lol: But as we know along with hip-hop it is his fave genre of music and one he has been doing for years now - since TT have come back their sound has been very much 'safe' radio2 MOR type of songs - risks were not taken. When Rob comes back they are suddenly doing the type of tracks he has been doing with the likes of Soul Mechanic for years (most of which have probably never seen the light of day for too 'out there' sadly) - so it doesn't take a rocket science to see that his rejoining has largly influenced the overall sound. They wrote it together but do you really think they would be releasing this type of album had Rob not rejoined? (don't know why I am even asking as I read you say only the other day that they would not be :P )

This is not going well at all. The very fact that The Flood may not even manage #2 is beyond shocking. Considering it is by far one of more normal and commercial songs on the album - I can't see the general public welcoming this new sound on the same level as the previous two TT album at all. Maybe they should have released something very MOR like 8 Letters to trick the public into thinking it was full of M&S backing tracks :rofl:

:lol: This is about as far removed for Gary’s songwriting style as it gets. There is not a hope in hell they would have changed direction in such a drastic way had it not been for Rob rejoining and it would be more than naive to think otherwise. The Circus part 2 would have been a certainty, and in many ways in terms of mass appeal in the UK they may regret not doing exactly that. I am not for one moments suggesting Gary didn’t have imput – as we know from the Q article he had already done many of the backing music to the tracks upon the NY songwriting session, to Rob’s surprise who was shocked Gary knew anything about the history of electro music. I have no doubt a lot of the basic music overall was from Gaz (although with this type of music that could very well have been very basic and then built up via different effects, especially after Price got on board - it's the type of sound where the original demo of the music would quite possibly not even be recognizable compared to the finished product), but I also have no doubt Rob had a big imput in coming up with alot of the music too, the beats etc because as we know, although he is not an accomplished musician, he loves writing electro music on computers and coming up with hooks and experimenting with different sounds when writing. I imagine they worked together, all five of them in coming up and I am sure they had a lot of fun doing so. It’s a totally different way of creating music, and one where a producer such as Price can be utilized very effectively which has been proven here with the excellent production. Many of the tracks sound very Robbie – the electro music and the melodies in particular – the lyrics obviously although they are not really the high point of the record overall imo, although they do certainly suit the sound. Quite a number of tracks would fit very well on Rudebox and in many respects with album is like the son of Rudebox. Rudebox the album, and the B-sides/outtakes (Break America etc) is very close in sound to many of these tracks – as are Disco, Weirdos and Arizona from RKTVS. Robbie must have been delighted when the lads also wanted to take a big risk and go for a totally different direction – one he has done many times in the past and one he adores. No wonder he is so excited.

Why are there so many dim people with such short memories? It really is infuriating to see. I am sure it must be very frustrating for all the Americans with common sense who are not brainwashed by Fox News. The Republicans are harping on about how Obama is ruining America etc and how he has made no change, all of which is absolute utter bollox. As you said Grimly it was 8 years of Bush and the Republicans in power that has put the US in the mess it is in today. Why don't people there see that it will take a long time to repair such a massive economic mess? Are they that stupid that they think Obama should fix everything within five minutes and if he doesn't then the people who caused the mess could be brought back in to inflict further damage with their incompetence? :blink: Obama said during his campaign that it would not be until the end of his first term where the economy would really start improving. I recently read an excellent article in RS about his achievements thus far. The facts are that he has already achieved 70% of what he said he was going to do - he has made a huge amount of change already two years into his presidency, and has proved to have made more progressive change with his legislative record in just 20 months than any President since LBJ. He has done what so many of his predesesors failed to do and transform the entire heath service, took 100,000 troops out of Iraq and giving an end date to the war, implemented huge financial reform, which in turn got the economy back on the road to recovery. He cut $200M in corporate welfare and reinvested it to make college more accessible., prevented the collapse of the big three automakers and invested $200M in clean energy. And of course he has totally restored America’s reputation internationally with Global confidence climbing to 70% now from such a low of 21% in 2007 under Bush. This was all achieved despite huge obstacles. This ill-informed right wing media view that he is doing f*** all is typical ignorance to be expected . No he is not perfect by any means, and a lot of work is still needed especially when it comes to tackling the huge unemployment but he is a hell of a lot better than pig ignorant Republicans like Sarah bloody Palin, and the US economy is in far better hands with a Democratic Govt than a Republican. Had the Rep remained in office and let the collapse t take it’s course the US would have been in a vastly worse state now – experts claim debt would have doubled without had the steps Obama’s administration not been taken with his stimulus plan. When Clinton took over from Bush Snr he inherited huge debt, and 8 years on left the US economy with a surplus. Then comes along Bush Jr and totally ruins the country and now yet again the Democrats have to clean up the mess. People need to give Obama and his team a lot longer than 2 years before the economy shows strong signs of improvement. I hope he gets a second term as I do think he will turn out to be a great President. Sadly now the Republicans have control of the House again it will be a lot more difficult for him to pass policies in order to get the economy back on track, as they will, as always end up putting their party ahead of the country. I do hope Palin somehow manages to get the 2012 Nomination though. Just seeing her in a debate against Obama would be so entertaining and would truly show her for what she is - an ignorant incompetent moron. :lol:

The album has leaked in full now. Most of it sounds nothing remotely like TT and is certainly going to shock a lot of fans. On first listen it sounds very interesting - and frankly quite a few of the tracks would fit nicely on 'Rudebox' :o Underground Machine is electro/rock Robbie - a bit similar to 'Break America' :o Happy Now is very 'Last Days Of Disco' imo - really liking Kidz and SOS (I knew a duet between Rob and Mark would work very well and have a great rockier sound to it) This is as about as far removed from BW as it gets tbh. Some fans are surely going to be saying to themselves "WTF is THIS?" :lol: The lack of Gary is really quite shocking. His main track Eight Letters doesn't even sound right with the others. :wacko: The many fans of the Barlow ballads are not going to be happy at all. -_- I however am pleasantly surprised and am really enjoying the energy to this album - it's a very interesting record, which is something I never thought I would say about a TT album :o Excellent job by Mr Price on the production front btw. I had forgotton he had originally been shortlisted by Rob to produce RKTVS but he went with Horn instead. Obviously wanted to let him do this instead and I am glad he did as he has done a very good job.

All of those venues are arenas - many with capacity's of less than 10,000 (The Denmark venue for example is 8,500 for gigs). The six dates for this tour are all in stadiums, the biggest of which is the San Siro which holds between 80-90,000 for a gig - if it does eventually sell out it will be their biggest gig of the tour. What I am shocked at with regard to the European Stadium gigs is that it has not been made clear that Robbie will be singing solo material. His name is not on the ticket abroad. The only reason they are playing stadiums is due to his popularity yet it has not been properly marketed in this way whatsoever. Many fans around the forums claim they only know Rob will be singing solo material because they are on forums daily - otherwise they wouldn't have any idea. I've heard some claim they struggled to get friends to buy tickets with them, despite them being Robbie fans, because they did not believe Robbie would be singing solo. Believe it or not but many fans, the non die-hards accross Europe and beyond are not even aware Rob has rejoined TT. It may be huge news in the UK and Ireland but I highly doubt it made the nation news in even remotely the same extent elsewhere. In many places it was probably just mentioned in the papers that Robbie has rejoined his old band with little else coverage. The whole thing has been very badly managed to say the least. Firstly, TT are playing huge stadiums in countries where both comeback albums flopped - the management only put these dates in stadiums due to Robbie's huge popularity across Europe (very few artists could sell out staidums even if their album went top 10), but yet failed to inform the public to the extent needed. Even people with very little knowledge of music charts and tours could clearly see that a band who's last album limped in at #68 are hardly going to fill a huge stadium - therefor it is not rocket science that the part about Robbie should have been marketed much much more than it was, especially in places where this wasn't on Sky News on the hour every hour mentioning he was doing a solo slot because outside the UK/Ireland - I doubt it was mentioned outside Showbiz type of shows. For the promoters not to have realized something so bloody obvious is really quite shocking. Having said that I do think once they start promoting properly across Europe the tickets will start selling properly with more dates being added, especially in Germany where I am shocked the dates have yet to sell out, consdiering TT's two albums did quite well there. The Wetten Das appearance will have a very positive effect I think. Both the European dates not selling out and The Flood under-performing (so far) are both as result from a mixture of naivety and frankly arrogance if you ask me.

The Flood is #1 in the midweeks. No real surprise considering all the pre-orders of physical sales etc - unless they start gaining a lot on Itunes they will trail off during the week. I also think 'The Flood' is vastly superior to Only Girl In The World, which is a bit rubbish tbh. I am no Rihanna fan but most of her singles are of much higher quality than this.