Zippy T Doodar

At that time [1992] I would not really know what would be going on in the Scottish Music Scene, as I stopped buying the Scottish music monthly Cut Magazine a couple of years previously. I do not know if you used to buy this magazine or are a fan of graphic novels, but if you are then you may know this magazine from an infamous comic strip by Grant Morrison which caused a lot of fuss at the time. I used to get that magazine around 1988/1989 and the types of acts that would be featured would be ones like The Blue Nile, Win and Goodbye Mr Mackenzie. I think, through the pages of the magazine, I would have known acts like Paul Haig and Edwyn Collins first as solo artists before I discovered their work with Josef K and Orange Juice. In regards to Orange Juice I do not think I knew anything about their music in the early 1980s, apart from the fact that they had dolphins on the cover of “You Can’t Hide Your Love Forever”. At that point I was a fan of Aztec Camera and owned their “Love” album [one of my favourite LPs at the time], but I do not think I knew of the Postcard Records link between Haig, Collins and Roddy Frame until a few years later. If you are in your 40s then you may have been part of "The Sound of Young Scotland" scene, though if you are also in your mid-30s, you will have probably just missed out like me. I would have been in my later years of school when grunge broke into the mainstream, but as an indie fan, I think it would have been better to have been a 6th Former, 10 years earlier in the early 1980s when record labels like Postcard were first being created. In the early 1990s, you did have Teenage Fanclub in the indie charts, but generally it seemed that Scottish music was being mostly represented by Del Amitri, Simple Minds and Wet Wet Wet, acts who, at that point, did not release the best music of their careers [i like some of their other records]. Even though I would never want to listen to some of Wet Wet Wet’s records again, I think as a vocalist Marti Pellow is slightly under-rated. I prefer him than Michael Bolton. Loz

I heard “Cloudbusting” on ‘Absolute 80s’ last night and for the first time ever, I thought that the production on the song actually reminded me of ‘Tango In The Night’ era Fleetwood Mac [especially “Big Love”]. Loz

I have heard their name mentioned many times over the years, but I could not tell you any records they would have released. As they were a band who were critically adored, I have an idea of their importance to the indie music scene and as a reference I guess they would be similar to mentioning The Field Mice, Talulah Gosh or Sarah Records in an article. There is also an American band called The Young Fresh Fellows and they were releasing records around the same time that The Young Marble Giants were active. As both acts had similar names I would get the two acts mixed up as my knowledge of them has remained vague. I cannot tell you anything about The Young Fresh Fellows apart from the fact that their name was mentioned in a song called “Twisting” by They Might Be Giants [an indie duo that I started liking back in the 1980s, a few years before their “Flood” album was released and an act that I could not mistake for the YMG]. Loz

I do not think “Louie Louie” was ever a big hit in the British charts. I think it may have been popular in America, but as far as the UK market was concerned, I think the song became more of an ‘underground’ tune. I say that, even though I do not know what would be regarded as an ‘underground’ scene in the early part of the 1960s. From what I know of Britain in the 1960s, all the ‘troublesome’ or ‘dangerous’ scenes, like the ones that featured Mods, Rockers and Hippies, would come later on. I think they were the moral panics of the period 1967-1969, whilst earlier on all I can think of as being ‘underground’ would be the beatnik jazz scene that would normally be shown as being situated in and around Soho. I know that The Kingsmen are usually described as a ‘garage’ band but I do not know if this would be just an American genre at the time. I think ‘garage-rock’ could be the American equivalent to that British blues-rock scene that ‘spawned’ successful acts like The Who and The Animals. I do not know if any of the American acts from that scene had the same stadium-sized success in their home country as The Who did here or whether they would be generally regarded as a one-hit wonders, outside a small specialist group of ‘garage-rock’ aficionados. I do not know if you are a fan of the ‘garage-rock’ genre but “Louie Louie” would be the only record that I know that was by The Kingsmen. The tracks mentioned in my previous posts [The Kingsmen, PJ Proby] all feature on a compilation album that is supposed to represent the playlists the pirate radio stations in the mid 1960s. The compilation was issued around the same time as that Richard Curtis film, “The Boat That Rocked”, was released into the cinemas of the UK and Ireland. I do not know if you have seen the film, but if you have avoided it thinking it was just another ‘Richard Curtis rom-com’ [though he was the guy who created Blackadder], then it might be of interest to you especially if this was the era you grew up in [and especially if you were one of those people who would be listening to their transistor radio from under the bed sheets]. Even though the film will never feature on E4’s ‘100 Greatest Comedy’ films list and would be too long to sit through in one sitting at the cinema, it is supposed to be a good representation of the pirate radio scene of the mid 1960s. I grew up in the 1980s, so I associate ‘pirate radio’ with the kind located in tower blocks and parodied by The Lenny Henry Show [Delbert Wilkins of The Brixton Broadcasting Corporation]. The ‘pirates’ of the 1960s may have been radical and scandalous in their day, but it is hard to believe how much trouble they were, especially when many of the presenters on those boats turned out to be the cheesy ‘Smashy and Nicey’ types of the 1980s. Do you remember what radio was like in the 1960s and were you a listener of ‘pirate radio’ at that time? If so, which station did you listen to and could you get Radio Caroline, Radio London or The Big L on your wireless set? Loz

Some good points in your comments, though I cannot see there being too much initial scandal around The Monkees, as I would expect most people in 1960s America would have viewed them as a TV comedy show first. I suppose you could view them as the retro equivalent to ‘Glee’ though in the case of The Monkees I suppose you could say the music is a far better feature of the show, than the comedy. When I was younger, I thought that 1960s acts were just suitable for ‘old fogies’ [my parents] and like S/A/W, Genesis or Hair Metal, this would be the type of music that I would not listen to. Even though I would try to avoid most 1960s music, The Monkees would be one of the few acts that I thought were alright, as I used to watch their show when it was broadcast on TV every holiday morning. You see I hated ‘Why Don’t You’ with a passion and so would watch all those old American comedy shows like The Monkees, Get Smart and I Dream Of Jeanie instead when Inspector Gadget and Ox Tales were not being shown. I do not know if The Archies were a cartoon series as well as a comic strip, or whether the cartoon footage I have seen was just made to promote the song, but I think their music career may have been developed to rival to The Monkees. At the time, I heard that all the people who played on the record were anonymously listed to make it look like the cartoon characters were actually the people who played on the record. I have forgotten who the studio band was, but like Gorillaz I think the people behind The Archies also had many other Number One hits as well. It may have been Flo & Eddie from The Turtles but I think they ended up as part of Frank Zappa’s Mothers of Invention instead. I was actually listening to a 1960s rock album today before I came out to work. On the disc was PJ Proby, whose ‘pant-splitting’ exploits I heard much about in my youth from my father. With all the fuss that was made over Proby I though he might have exposed himself in a way similar to Iggy Pop and his infamous see-through trousers, but according to a documentary I saw recently it was only his knee that was exposed. Also on the disc was “Louie Louie” by The Kingsmen, which I think was regarded as being very obscene back in the 1960s. Even though the lyrics are not supposed to be rude, the mumbled voice on the record does give the impression that you are in fact listening to someone who might be the ‘American Serge Gainsbourg’. I do not know if you have figured out the lyrics yet, but to me it does sound like the chorus is “Louie Lou-eh [rude noises] to the break of dawn”. I do not go to the cinema very much, as generally I am not a person who likes to sit with all the noisy crowds that you get at a ‘blockbuster’, though I did make a point to watch the recent ‘Gainsbourg’ film. I thought the film was entertaining, but as the film overlooked a lot of his scandals, I guess anybody who is not too familiar with Gainsbourg would wonder what all the fuss was about. As expected, the film featured “Je T’aime”, though some of the lines were not subtitled, probably due to maximum rudeness. Not only was “Je T’aime” covered by René Artois from ‘Allo ‘Allo, but by Judge Dread as well, an act who managed to chart many rude reggae songs over a period of about 10 years. I have recently heard one of his songs on a reggae compilation album but I do not know which one as most of his Top 40 hits had similar titles. As these titles included “Big Six”, “Big Seven” and “Big Eight”, I wonder if he would have debuted with a “Big One”. I also wonder if any of his records would have been played on the radio in the 1970s. If “Relax” by Frankie Goes To Hollywood was banned in the 1980s and that song was actually not very rude at all, then I cannot see how Judge Dread could get any airplay at all. At this point I am having trouble imagining where Judge Dread fits into 1970s culture, as on one hand he could have been quite an ‘underground’ act and on the other he was a very successful artist in the charts, with his singles on the chart for about 25 weeks each. I am wondering if he would fit into a ‘humourous song’ scene that might also feature people like Jasper Carrott, Max Boyce, Mike Harding or Doc Cox, though I do not think any of these performers had any reggae songs in their sets. Can you remember seeing any of these acts at the time? If so, what are your reminisces and thoughts about this period of popular culture? Loz

I remember he was going to do a ‘Reload 2’ with Gut Records, but V2 offered him a better deal. I think he should have stuck with a Gut contract, as when he signed to V2, they ended up releasing that “Tom Jones International” song with Wyclef Jean, which was slightly embarrassing. At this point, some might say that Wyclef Jean’s election [as President of Haiti] would be for the best, as it would stop him making any more records like “Tom Jones International”, though to give Jean credit I thought that his solo hit “Gone Till November” was an excellent single. Loz

Talking of ‘oldies stations’, I do hope ‘Absolute 80s’ will one day get around to playing another a-ha record that is not “Take On Me”. It would be nice to find “Train Of Thought” or “You Are The One” on their playlist for once. Loz

Sorry for the confusion as the sentence was supposed to feature three separate acts. Maybe I should have used Indecent Obsession instead of Check 1-2 as David Dickinson, the lead singer of this Australian Brother Beyond, ended up in Home & Away after his band failed to chart in the UK. Yes you are correct, Craig McLachlan was indeed the lead singer of Check 1-2, though they were credited as Craig McLachlan & Check 1-2 by the time the band had their hits, as that billing built upon McLachlan’s success as Henry from Neighbours. I now seem to think that the former name of Check 1-2 was ‘The Y Frontz’ and I think this band may have featured the guy who played Des Clarke on sax. I remember that ‘Des Clarke’ was part of a band during his years on Neighbours and I think that many other cast members were involved too. Unfortunately, I do not think he was able to capitalise on his success, even as a ‘Karl Kennedy’ type of ‘student turn’, because last time his name was mentioned in a conversation at work, someone said he is now homeless. I do not know if you remember an Irish band called The Forget-Me-Nots? Well they were a band who released a jolly tune in 1991 called “Soap Singer’s Beat” [the chorus went “All those records you release, same to me to me”]. It was a pity that the song was not released a couple of years earlier when Kylie & Jason were having all their Number Ones, as I think it would have been a hit back then, especially as those were the days when the charts were also full of ‘Cut Magazine’ acts such as Texas, Deacon Blue and The Bible [if you want to imagine the sound of this record think about what would happen if Claire Grogan was the lead singer of The Frank & Walters]. By 1991, S/A/W had been superseded by the success of New Kids On The Block and even that group’s success was fading as bands like Take That came onto the scene. Even though it seemed that every soap star who featured in ‘Big Magazine’ [for example Abi Tucker and Laura Vasquez] were saying how they were about to release a record, most of these recordings would not trouble Take That in the charts as the majority of these releases were generally worse than any tunes that S/A/W may have recorded in the late stages of their career [including the ones written for Big Fun and Sonia]. Therefore if I had a choice between an album of S/A/W produced tracks and an album of singing soap stars I think I would select the former, as the S/A/W compilation would no doubt have Dead Or Alive’s “You Soin Me Round” as one of the tracks, whilst the latter would probably feature Adam Ricketts or Sid Owen. Unless you or anybody else can come up with any other good examples, I think that the only decent soap star-turned pop singer is Kylie Minogue. Even though I was a big Neighbours fan when I was younger [even watching the first episode], these days I only think of her in terms of pop music and so when she does turn up acting in a film, I generally think of her in a way similar to that of Madonna. Loz

Hello everybody, I am here today to talk about celebrity scandals. Does anybody have any particular favourites they would like to talk about? First of all, I would like to discuss scandals involving performers miming to other people’s voices on ‘their’ records. What are your opinions about this? I mention this as I have been reading about the court case involving Lou De Prijck, the real singer of the Plastic Bertrand song “Ça Plane Pour Moi”. De Prijck wanted to promote himself as original singer of the song, which was much to the disgust of the record company that owned the original rights. Now I was quite surprised that this had come to light again, as I thought that the fact that Plastic Bertrand did not sing on the song was common knowledge by now. I first heard these rumours way back in the early 1990s and anyway I thought that Plastic Bertrand was always regarded as a punk ‘cash-in’, rather than a ‘proper punk’, in the eyes of the press. Even though most people will have not seen De Prijck before or care who Plastic Bertrand actually was [to be honest I would not know who he was without looking at the cover of the first Smash Hits magazine] I think most people on here will remember Milli Vanilli or Black Box, two high profile ‘lip-synch’ acts of the late 1980s. In suppose if the success of Milli Vanilli and Black Box had just stayed confined to Europe, then nobody would have bothered too much as this kind of ‘deception’ was something that you would expect of Euro-pop and Euro-dance producers [49ers, Boney M, Xpansions, DJH featuring Steffi etc]. In regards to English and American acts, I think in the past, most stories have involved people not playing on their own records rather than miming along to other people vocals, though in the cases of Frankie Goes To Hollywood and ‘The Pistols’ [allegedly 10cc and Chris ‘Motorbiking’ Spedding respectively], these rumours have only added to their ‘mystique’. So what do you think? Loz

Yes, Russell Mucahy is the director’s name, though I thought it could be Russell Malachy or Russell Mullhern. “The Chauffeur” is one of my favourite early Duran songs as well, alongside “Save A Prayer”, and yes, those other songs that you mention are very much under-rated. I do not remember the video for “Do You Believe In Shame?” as it is not included on their ‘Greatest’ singles DVD. Thankfully, it looks like EMI will be re-issuing Duran Duran’s entire back catalogue as 2CD/DVD sets so I will be able to get the videos on those releases when they come out. ‘Notorious’ should be next as they are already up to the Arcadia album. I do not know if they will bother re-issuing The Power Station album as well, though obviously Robert Palmer should have been already mentioned in this list for his female video backing band. “Do You Believe In Shame?” is from the Duran album called ‘Big Thing’, so I think you might be remembering The Age Of Chance instead. I think their album may have been called ‘Big Noise’ after one of their singles which had the title “Who’s Afraid of The Big Bad Noise”. I remember that the covers for ‘Big Thing’ and The Age Of Chance would have been similar, as both artworks featured a lot of brightly covered type. I like The Age Of Chance’s VHS, even though it is only 10 minutes long. Thankfully I did not pay the original £10.99 asking price for it, as I picked it up when it was only a pound in the Virgin Megastore sale. As well as “Who’s Afraid of The Big Bad Noise”, the VHS features the videos for “Kiss” and “Don’t Get Mad…Get Even”. At that point The Age Of Chance reminded me of an indie-dance-punk ABC at the point where Fry & White had David Yarratu and Eden in the line up [‘Zillionaire’]. I think that The Age Of Chance should have been as big as PWEI or Jesus Jones, as a record like “Info-freako” sounds quite similar to the Sheffield group. The Age Of Chance album that I own is the one that they released in 1990 after changing singers. From what I can remember of the album, I think it sounded very much like a male-fronted version of ‘1234’, the album released by Propaganda in the same year [i suppose you could say they were not the ‘real’ Propaganda at that point as only one member was left from the ZTT days]. In regards to Talk Talk, Squeeze and XTC, I can only agree with you as they are bands that I like and their singles are always very welcome when I hear them on the radio [though ‘Absolute 80s’ should play more of their tunes]. I came to XTC quite late so I cannot remember any of their videos apart from the one for “Dear God”. This video is still a very vague memory in my mind and from what I can remember it could be a Talk Talk video that I am thinking of. All I remember is that the video features somebody standing in a field under a tree. I think that this person starts off as a boy who ‘turns’ into Andy Partridge as the video progresses. I cannot remember anything else about the video apart from that and the fact that the boy reappears at the end of the shoot. I do not think there were any DVDs ever released by XTC, which is a shame. On the other hand, there were loads released by Squeeze, of which I own a few different re-issued video collections. Of their early videos, it is the one for “Cool For Cats” that comes to mind first, though generally the videos by Squeeze that are easily remembered, are the ones released from the ‘Babylon & On” album. I think it is because the videos for songs like “Hourglass” and “Trust Me To Open My Mouth” are quite ‘wacky’ and that is why those videos are so memorable for me. I think you could say at this point, Squeeze had become more like Madness and [The] Madness had become more like Squeeze. I think a lot of these videos may have been influenced by the television career of Jools Holland, who I seem to remember collaborating with people like Vic Reeves and Roland Rivron at that time. In the video for the single “8535937”, Holland is replaced by a cardboard cut out as he was making a comedy show and therefore was unavailable for filming. At the time I think he was recording the show where he meets an alien and the two of them go off on a journey around Britain, travelling in a modified Rolls Royce that has a squashed roof. I do not know if you remember this show but it used to be on Channel 4 late at night, which after his live link ‘slip-up’ was the only place Channel 4 would dare put him. I remember watching ‘The Tube’ and know that they used to make a lot of videos for new acts that they had discovered. I have regularly seen the videos they made for The Proclaimers and Frankie Goes To Hollywood [perhaps one of the most important videos of the 1980s, more important than the two videos ZTT released for Frankie], but I cannot remember any other acts, so if anybody else can remember who they saw on The Tube, please let me know in this thread. Loz

I heard on the radio that she is 52 today. Happy Birthday Kate! Loz

Yes, that was indeed Candyland, a band who, whilst not being part of that old ‘Madchester’ scene, were an indie-dance act. I suppose you could say that they were a cross between EMF and Jefferson Airhead, acts who would have been releasing records around the same time as Candyland [i was going to say ‘The Mock Turtles and Jesus Jones’, but as Mike Edwards never gets good press these days, I decided EMF were a better reference]. The guy you remember with the bleached mop top haircut would have been the singer, though I cannot remember his name or what the album was called. I think the album could have been called ‘Kingdom’, after the third single or had something to do with eating sweets. Even if the band used a pun on the phrase Candyland, I do not think the title was as bizarre as ‘Madstock, The Continuing Adventures of Bubble Car Fish’, which was from an album released by fellow indie-dance types Candy Flip. I actually own that Candy Flip album, as it came in one of those American long-boxes that I liked to collect back in the early 1990s and was cheap enough to buy for the one song that I wanted. Even though I hated “Strawberry Fields Forever” I liked their single “Redhills Road”, a song which at the time reminded me of “Save A Prayer” era Duran Duran. In relation to ‘The Greatest Video Ever Made’, I think most people will normally say that the best Duran video is “Save A Prayer, “Rio” or Girls On Film”, all of which would be usually found in those type of lists. I would disagree, even though the first two videos are the kind of ‘luxury travelogues’ that are always strongly associated with Duran Duran. I would say that their best video is “All She Wants Is…” which was a completely animated video. It was done in a way similar to the ‘cut-away’ shots in the “New Sensation” video by INXS, whereby you move a band member one way and a florescence light the other, shot-by-shot. I think INXS and Duran also used the same video director a couple of times in the 1980s and his name was Russell, though it was not the same guy who created the “All She Wants Is…” video. This person also directed the last Arcadia video using the same visual effects but “All She Wants Is…” is the better song. Another 1980s act that I remember having very watchable videos was Talk Talk. This was because most of their videos were directed by Tim Pope, who also directed all The Cure videos in the 1980s, as well as other ‘natural history’ shoots such as “Charlton Heston” by Stump [the video that included a million frogs]. One video that I did not like by Talk Talk, was the one where they are all standing in a field, on a farm at about 6am in the morning. It would have been alright if it was a straight performance piece, but there were parts in the video where the music stops and the band start doing these ‘comedy interludes’. Not only does Mark Hollis speak into the camera, saying something like “Cor blimey Gov’nor look at my trousers”, but the song is repeated three times on the video collection, as the band have shot alternate back-to-back versions of the video, in the same location, within a time period of about 30 minutes. I do not think there is any similar problems with Peter Gabriel as all his videos are usually faultless. I would say that he is definitely an artist whose work I was introduced to by the medium of video [“Sledgehammer”, “Big Time” etc]. Even though I own his video collection on DVD and VHS, I have never got around to buying any of his albums from before 1986, whether solo or with Genesis [i suppose also due the Phil Collins association problem], and generally I am not too good at remembering album tracks on a day-to-day basis. “Downside Up” is not a record that comes to mind but I may have that track on the “Ovo” album, as I know that album features many guest vocalists such as Paul Buchanan from The Blue Nile. Buchanan also appears on my Craig Armstrong album as well, doing an orchestral version of "Let's Go Out Tonight" [one of my favourite songs from one of my favourite albums]. “This Love” also appears on that album, but I have not listened to the album yet as I think most of the tracks will be instrumental pieces from films that Armstrong has scored. I do not fancy listening to an album like that at the moment, as I prefer listening to compilation albums by artists, such as The Wedding Present, where I know many of their hits. The Wedding Present’s ‘Ye Ye’ singles collection was the album that I listed to last night, but I do not know how any of their videos would go. I do not know if you remember any of the videos from their monthly singles campaign of 1992, but I think that all 12 videos from that ‘Hit Parade’ series have now been re-issued onto DVD [‘Dick York’s Wardrobe’]. I would quite like to buy that DVD as I only ever bought the vinyl singles the first time around. Even though I would like a Wedding Present DVD collection, I am worried that it will be a waste of money. I fear that the promos could be the kind of scrappy camcorder recordings that you would get on the Chart Show’s Indie Chart in 1986 when there were no Mute Records releases to be played, the kind of videos that would only usually be good enough for bonus footage. I have bought DVDs like that before and do not wish to waste my money again, so if you remember what they were like I would be very grateful indeed. Loz

I like both the Cocteau Twins and The Bunnymen, but that McCulloch/Fraser single does not come to mind as I only started to like those acts in the 1990s, around the time that McCulloch’s ‘Mysterio’ album and the “Lover Lover Lover” single was released. I think the lead singer of Echo & The Bunnymen was called Noel at that time, as McCulloch had left for his solo career, and I think they may have gone indie-dance by that time, as I remember their album cover was very ‘psychedelic’ looking. I guess it was no wonder why Echo & The Bunnymen reformed in the mid 1990s with McCulloch on vocals, as apart they were not entirely successful. If I remember correctly I think that the McCulloch/Fraser single only got to number 75 and so I think that they were actually listed as one of the ‘most unsuccessful one hit wonders’ in the Guinness Hit Singles Book, alongside Fish & Tony Banks. I think the Guinness Hit Singles Book was edited by Mike Reid, Tim Rice & Paul Gambaccini at that point, a role they did ever since they invented the first edition back in the 1970s. When they stopped their involvement in the mid 1990s, the new editors thought it was dumb to this list these collaborations as separate acts and so that single was put under McCulloch’s solo list. The band Candyland nearly featured on the list of ‘most unsuccessful one hit wonders’ as well, but their single “Fountain Of Youth”, charted a few places higher. Even though I still have their album somewhere at home [which has a purple banana on the front], I do not remember this single as well as “Bittermoon”, as it was not a record that was ever promoted much on TV. I thought that “Bittermoon” should have been a bigger hit, especially since the video was shown a few times on The Chart Show. I do not know if the members of Candyland went on to form any other groups and unlike The Apples, who did have only one hit at Number 75 with “Eye Wonder”, I do not think they would have been people in the 1980s that we should have known about [The Apples featured members of Win and so probably members of The Fire Engines as well]. In regards to Depeche Mode, it has been many years since I have played all the early videos as they are all on a VHS and the DVD that I normally watch starts in 1986 with the ‘Music For The Masses’ tracks. The fact that it is on VHS is one reason why I have not bothered playing that collection in the last 10 years and also because I think that most of the videos feature Dave Gahan’s ‘specialised’ dancing style, which is very nearly of the Hugh Dennis kind [from The Mary Whitehouse Experience years]. Even though they were made a few years before his ‘Rock God’ period, from what I can remember I do not think “Shake The Disease” or “It's Called A Heart” featured any of this ‘embarrassing dad’ dancing. I cannot remember which of these two songs it was, but I remember that one was shot all at night under floodlights in a kind of corn field. That was probably the best video on the collection [‘Some Great Videos’]. In a way similar to the dance of Dave Gahan [and the ‘stage presence’ of other 1980s stars such as Andy Bell and Jim Kerr] as a child I thought that it was easy to mimic the movements of Kate Bush, which would be done by waving your arms about in a circular fashion whilst singing “Wow”. Even though that association has held firm in my mind from a very young age, I cannot be sure if I ever saw the original video to “Wow” or whether the mannerisms that I remember were actually taken from a parody by someone like Pamela Stevenson on ‘Not The Nine O’Clock News’. Now that I have mentioned Not The Nine O’Clock News, I think I should mention “Nice Video Shame About The Song” at this point, even though it is an obvious reference to make. From what I remember about the sketch, I think was actually a parody of a New Romantic video like Bowie’s “Ashes To Ashes” and even though I cannot be certain of the year it was actually first broadcast, I think it may date from 1981, a period that featured many videos shot in studios that should actually be a 'Nice Song Shame About The Video' category. I am trying to think of words to describe the ‘visual texture’ of these videos, though as I am having difficulty, maybe somebody else could come up with a good critique of the style and look that I am thinking about. The videos that I am remembering now include ABC’s “The Look Of Love” and a number of early Soft Cell videos like “Tainted Love”, which was so bad, it was replaced by a much better video in 1991 that made it on Marc Almond’s video hits collection. I do not know if anybody else remembers that Monty Python sketch where they all looked out of the window and found that they were surrounded by ‘film’? That sketch made a point about all those old comedy shows showing a marked difference in definition between the interior studio shots recorded onto video and the outside footage shot on film. I think this difference is also apparent if you watch pop videos from the early 1980s, especially if you were to view a video like “The Look Of Love” and then watched “Ghost Town” by The Specials. Even though both are great records, the ABC video spoils your enjoyment of the track, whilst the “Ghost Town” video is still as ‘gritty’ as it was in the 1980s and really helps to promote the message of the track very well. ABC, The Specials and David Bowie are all artists that I enjoy, so it is easy to pick out dreadful videos that they have made from their wonderful back catalogue and I guess that everybody on here who has mentioned a favourite video, has mentioned it because it is an artist or record that they like in the first place. I suppose if a song was recorded by someone like Michael Bolton or Stock Aiken Waterman, and that song had the best video ever made, I doubt if anybody would want to remember it, let alone admit how good the video was, because the song and artist will always be the most important factor. Even though that was an ‘extreme’ example, I cannot think of any videos that would fall into that “Nice Video Shame About The Song” criteria and I do not know if anybody else could think of any examples. If you can, please post your examples here as I will be very interested to see what you can come up with. Loz

On my lunch today I purchased collections by Echobelly, Ned’s Atomic Dustbin and Big Audio Dynamite. I will be listening to one of these CDs when I get home from work. Loz

Yes that is a good choice, as that is one of my favourite Banshees tunes as well. Even though it was a great performance by Siouxsie, I cannot actually remember if the rest of the band were actually in the video. I just remember the image of Siouxsie dressed as that kind of ‘vampire Catwoman’ with the rings on her hand which were actually silver claws. I think Budgie and Severin may have been shown briefly in the background, though I will need to look at the video again. I think at this point I may also be remembering the video to a song called “Bittermoon” by the early 1990s indie-dance band Candyland, which I think was very similar in tone and quite gothic too [you may also remember this song, the lyrics went something like “Do you ever dream of angels in Crimplene, their wings are polystyrene they cannot fly”]. I think Candyland were signed to Fiction records, just like The Cure. Now I think that The Cure are a great video band who, along with Madness, are probably the best video act from the 1980s. In comparison to The Banshees, many more videos come easily to mind, the majority of which would have been directed by Tim Pope. The only other video by Siouxsie that instantly comes to mind would be the one for “Dear Prudence” which also features as a bonus on the ‘Nocturne’ DVD. I do not know if you own the ‘Nocturne’ DVD as well, but there is a very odd video-film as part of the extras that also features Robert Smith as part of The Glove, which is like a demented version of Alice In Wonderland. Another ‘Goth’ act that I liked in the 1980s was The Sisters Of Mercy and a child I used to think that the video for “Dominion” was great. This was the video where Andrew Eldritch and Patricia Morrison [who at the time I thought was actually called ‘Morticia’] were shown in the desert, somewhere in the Middle East, all dressed in white. I guess this is also a reason why the video sticks in my mind as I would usually associate Goth acts with wearing black in Leeds city centre. By the way, if you are wondering why earlier, when I mentioned The Cure and Madness, that I did not mention Depeche Mode as being ‘the best video act from the 1980s’ as well, then I would probably say that their catalogue of videos from the 1990s was actually better overall. I do not know if anybody else would agree or disagree with me on this fact, but as far as memorable videos go, I think it this point can also be applied to the Pet Shop Boys, even when regarding the tracks from the 'Television' VHS compilation, of which I am very fond of. Loz

Well there is no faulting your knowledge as, without watching the VHS tapes again, I am 100% sure that you are completely correct. Out of all the video albums released in the 1980s, I think that ‘Savage’ is one of the best as it was not just a collection of random video clips. There was some kind of narrative thread going through the tracks which held it all together, which is rare for these types of work. Compare ‘Savage’ to Annie & Dave’s first video album ‘Sweet Dreams’, which was a collection of live tracks recorded at the Heaven Nightclub interspersed with videos for the singles, and then you can see how good ‘Savage’ actually was. It has only been in the last couple of years, that I have got around to purchasing ‘Sweet Dreams’ on DVD as I did not like the album the first time it was released in the 1980s. From ‘Touch’ onwards I ended up getting all the other Eurythmics albums that BMG released, as well as the ‘We Too Are One’ and ‘Dave Stewart/Spiritual Cowboys’ videos. Those tapes have been in my collection for ages, but as it has been about 20 years since I last viewed either of the tapes, I cannot remember too much about them. I think both were ‘Behind The Scenes’ documentaries which had many live performances, though I think that the Spiritual Cowboys release also had the full video to the “Jack Talking” single on the tape as well. I am not too bothered about having those releases on DVD and I doubt that The Spiritual Cowboys video would ever be re-issued by Sony, though I think that ‘Savage’ should have been by now, especially since the parent album has been re-issued a couple of times in the last few years. I am just hoping that Sony will get around to re-releasing that video album onto DVD quite soon as my old VHS copy is now starting to show signs of sound loss. I think The Shakespears Sister videos were great as well, especially the ones where Fahey and Detroit are portrayed like a Goth version of Joan Crawford and Bette Davis in the film 'Whatever Happened To Baby Jane'. I was quite surprised that both Shakespears Sister VHS tapes were re-issued onto one DVD by Warners [the first VHS includes “You’re History” and footage from Russia] as they have never re-issued the Bananarama VHS onto disc. I think it is quite strange as a new Bananarama compilation seems to be released every few years on CD and you would think that if Warners included the videos as well, it would make any new compilation a more popular release. In addition to Bananarama, another 1980s act that I thought I would see compiled by Warners onto DVD is The Fine Young Cannibals. I will not spend to long talking about FYC here as I have only just recently mentioned them whilst talking about The Beat in another thread. However, I will say one thing, in that I always preferred the video to “Ever Fallen In Love” to “She Drives Me Crazy”, even though the latter was directed by the same people who did New Order’s “True Faith”. “Ever Fallen In Love” was from an 1980s movie that I think was called something like ‘Wild Thing’ or ‘Wild At Heart’, and even though it is quite a cheesy video, I like how it uses the video clips of the film. For most of the time, promo videos for singles released in conjunction with films are dreadful, as for the majority of releases the videos tend to go ‘performance, film clip, performance’ with not much visual relevance between film clip and band. Now I think that you will be the type of person who can easily come up with a good example of a pop video promo that was released in relation to a ‘blockbuster’ film which was not completely useless. I cannot think of any good ones at the moment, apart from the video to The Art Of Noise’s re-recording of the ‘Dragnet’ theme tune [as the film was broadcast on ITV1 the other day] which had the cast from the “Close To The Edit” video superimposed on top of clips from that Dan Aykroyd / Tom Hanks film. Otherwise I am just remembering Bryan Adams standing in a forest and Ronan Keating sitting on a bench. So can you think of any other good videos? Loz

I was listening to Rod Stewart’s “Downtown Train” this morning on a compilation of tunes that were all sung by the many favourite artists of Michael Parkinson. Whilst listening to that particular tune, not only did I think that Mick Hucknell could actually be a good replacement for Rod in The Faces, but that “Downtown Train” sounded very much like a tune that Bolton would have recorded in 1990. Whilst many people think that admitting a liking for Hucknell and Bolton will some how damage their social standing, especially if that admission is not given with an arched eyebrow and layer of ‘irony’, somehow Stewart is still looked upon as being quite acceptable, even though most of his albums in the 21st Century could have been projects given over to Barry Manilow. I think that you could say that Stewart has been ‘sailing on a sea of credibility’ ever since the 1970s, as in the 1990s his records were just as good [or as bad] as records by Bolton. Loz

I am not listening to anything because I am working in a quiet office. However, does anybody here listen to Radcliffe & Maconie and BBC Radio 2? If so, have you heard this week a record by a Canadian band called Mother Mother entitled “Oh My Heart”? I only ask because I know there are a lot of people who view this area who are fans of obscure 1980s indie music and even though I think “Oh My Heart” is a great single, it does remind me of a record from the 1980s but I just cannot remember what it is. I think it might be a record released on Creation records by The House Of Love [like “Christine” or “Destroy The Heart”] but I cannot be sure as I have not heard those records for years. If anybody has any ideas to the record I might be thinking of, please post your suggestions. Thank you. Loz

By the way, whilst we are talking about the 1980s, did anybody else watch the Live Aid shows that were on BBC Four over the last two nights [actually repeated from 2005]? In regards to memorable hits and long term careers, I think the list of Live Aid artists could be a good reference point here for this opinion and maybe some of the points raised in other threads about ‘guilty pleasures’ as well. Loz

I could not agree with you more. I would also pick “Jump They Say” and 'Paninaro' as great videos from those acts, not only because they are favourites of mine, but also because a lot of people, when asked, would probably just say the biggest hits, such as “Let’s Dance” or “West End Girls”. As for Depeche Mode and Eurythmics, I think I would select their late 1980s video albums “Strange” and “Savage” instead of a single video, though in regards to Depeche, I always thought the ‘reveal’ in the “I Feel You” video, where the curtain gets dropped behind Dave Gahan, to be a very excellent shot. I think you are right about ABBA as well. Even though I am not somebody who is a fan, I have to agree that they have indeed produced a lot of memorable videos. I suppose this claim for greatness can be supported by the fact that the iconography of videos have been ‘spoofed’ to great effect by people like French & Saunders and Erasure, something that you could not say for Ace Of Base. In regards to Ace Of Base, I am reminded of that group every time I hear “Alejandro” by Lady Gaga, though in regards to the video, I think the Madonna video that we are both thinking about, when we see that Gaga ‘rip-off’, is the one for the song “Human Nature”, which came out in about 1994. Even if it is a different Madonna video that you have got in your mind, I am guessing that it will still have been made sometime between 1992 and 1995. Loz

I think “Just Got Lucky” is a great song and it is a pity that style of group seemed to fade out towards the mid 1980s. I think they may have released another album in about 1985 but by then they would have been ‘out of fashion’. I would actually list The Joboxers as being in the same category as Dexy’s Midnight Runners, Animal Nightlife and The Beat. In regards to The Beat, I would have been too young to know “Mirror In The Bathroom” the first time around and therefore, would not necessarily think of them as being a Ska band. I would have initially known The Beat through liking the records of the Fine Young Cannibals and I would say that FYC started out with a development of that ‘Joboxers sound’ on their single “Johnny Come Home”. I guess that General Public would also sound similar to FYC though I cannot remember how any of their records went [however, I remember that their single was also called “General Public” and they were a duo]. The Joboxers were mentioned on one of the radio shows I was listening to the other week, as the presenter had gone to a ‘Guilty Pleasures’ night which was promoted by somebody who used to be in the band. I cannot remember if it was the singer or the guitarist, but I think after The Joboxers the promoter may have formed a late 1980s indie-dance band called IF [though this band could have been called 28IF after the registration number of the car on the Abbey Road album]. I remember reading an interview with the guy who compiled all the ‘Guilty Pleasures’ albums and he said that he started a radio show in London playing all these awfully cheesy records as this indie-dance band had been a commercial failure. Rather than being a massive international hit like Jesus Jones or EMF, his band had as much success as Slow Bongo Floyd, Nixon and The Apples [who I think had something to do with Win of “We’ve Got The Power” advert fame], all of which could be contenders for a ‘Guilty Pleasures’ night by now. Nevertheless, whoever may have invented ‘Guilty Pleasures’ I just hope they are not playing “Just Got Lucky” as I think it is a record that should be respected as much as records by The Beat and The Style Council [“Speak Like A Child”] are to this day. Loz

I like Bowie but my collection is still missing many of his earlier albums including ‘Pin-Ups’. Even though it is a covers album, I think it should be a good album as Bowie would have still been ‘Ziggy’ at the time when it was recorded. In that case, I would say that ‘Pin-Ups’ is likely to be a better album than many of his later artist albums from the 1980s, especially the one that coincided with the ‘Glass Spider’ tour. Actually, I think ‘Pin-Ups’ could be the last album ‘recorded’ by ‘Ziggy’ and therefore could be looked upon as some kind of ‘symbolic’ project by Bowie to rid himself of that character. At about the time Bowie released ‘Pin-Ups’, I think Bryan Ferry also released a covers album, as a side-project away from Roxy Music. As it is not an album that I have got in my recent pile of Roxy Music CDs, I cannot say whether the album would be all Glam-Rock or an album where Ferry would be crooning all those 1940s covers again [i suppose that particular ‘wartime covers’ album will still not be as bad as those covers albums by either Duran Duran or Simple Minds]. Are you a fan of Bowie and Ferry? If so, did you happen to listen to that two-part Radio 2 show about Glam-Rock, that was presented by Gary Kemp, a couple of weeks ago? I enjoyed listening to the first part but still have not got around to listening to the final part yet. I think this second part will be mainly about British bands like Slade and Sweet. I think American acts, such as Kiss and Alice Cooper, could get a few mentions and will be talked about briefly but I think that the focus of the show will be mainly placed upon other British Glam-Rock bands. Glam-Rock is not a genre that would come to mind when thinking about New Zealand or Australia, as I would expect most bands from these countries to be either in the pub-rock or hard-rock genres. I do not know if anybody would categorise Split Enz as being an outright Glam-Rock band [especially in the years before Neil Finn joined], though I suppose they could be, as they were formed in the early 1970s and had lots of make-up. I think a documentary about Australian Rock would be of great interest to me, but I doubt that I will be hearing or watching one anytime soon on the BBC as ‘Australian Rock’ does not seem to seem to have the general appeal as either American or British Rock. Actually, apart from the BBC, I think that Rock in general is under represented on television at the moment, especially on the music channels that we get on Freeview. As far as Rock music is concerned, I would have expected 4music to have a better playlist, as they take many programmes from Channel 4 and could take shows from sister channel ‘Kerrang!’ TV as well. Unfortunately these shows from ‘Kerrang!’ are quite rare and usually scheduled at about 1am in the morning after all the old Channel 4 comedy programmes have finished. I do not mind watching 4music at night when many of these comedy shows are broadcast again, just as long as it is not ‘Bo Selecta’ that is being repeated. I never got the appeal of that show in the first place and I guess it would be very dated if I did. Even though they are about 10 years old now, I do like watching ‘Banzai’ and ‘Trigger Happy TV’. Actually, as far as music programming is concerned I would say that ‘Trigger Happy TV’ has a better ‘playlist’ than many of the ‘shows’ broadcast in the daytime hours [for example all those ‘Top 20 R&B’ countdowns]. Does anybody else here watch Trigger Happy TV? If you are a regular viewer then you might be familiar with “Under The Milky Way” by Australian group The Church. I think it must be a favourite track of Dom Joly, as it is one of those obscure tracks from the late 1980s that is used over and over again as a soundtrack to all the crazy stuff that is shown on screen. Another record like this is “Bakerman” by the Danish group Laid Back, which also features on the ‘Trigger Happy’ spin-off album. If you have been living in mainland Europe then you will probably know Laid Back as they have been going for years. I think they had a lot of big hits in the mid 1980s including “Sunshine Reggae” which I think was originally released in about 1984. They are not to be confused with Slovenia’s Laibach, who I would expect to be better known on here by fans of alternative 1980s music. Nevertheless, if you do remember Laid Back’s “Bakerman” then I guess that you will also remember that skydiving pop video that accompanied the single, which featured the band plummeting to earth whilst playing various instruments. As well as the “Bakerman is baking bread” refrain I think there was something in the lyrics about “The night train is coming, got to keep on running”, but as it has been many years since I have listened to it without looking at any funny visuals, I may have got this line wrong and be thinking of something else instead. Loz

In the car, I am currently listening to a ‘Swinging Sixties’ three CD set and was actually playing The Easybeats the other night from this compilation. After getting home, I spent most of the evening trying to remember who recorded the song in the 1980s, thinking that it could have been The Dammed, Siouxsie & The Banshees or Echo & The Bunnymen [though I remembered that they covered Love, Trinity and The Doors instead]. I was sure it was either a Goth or Indie band from the 1980s who had covered it, but after looking in the Hit Singles book it turned out it was Gary Moore, a guitarist who I think used to be in one of the line ups of Thin Lizzy with Midge Ure. I also looked at The Easybeats discography to see if they had many other hits, but it turned out that they only had one more chart hit in the UK. I do not know this other hit but I do know that their song “Good Times” was the song INXS and Jimmy Barnes covered for ‘The Lost Boys’ soundtrack [alongside that Doors cover by Echo & The Bunnymen]. In addition to this The Easybeats were listed in the Hit Singles book as being a group made up of members from England, Australia and The Netherlands. Even though they had only a couple of hits in the UK I think The Easybeats were as big as The Beatles in Australia, because like many bands, I guess The Beatles would have not got around to touring there in the 1960s. This was due to bands taking about six months in a boat to get there, a timeframe which also seemed to be the usual gap between releases of albums by groups in that decade [therefore time was not wasted on long trips ‘down under’]. However, as far as the UK market is concerned I think the most successful 1960s group from Australia was actually The Bee Gees, who had two number ones. Loz

I was actually watching my Split Enz hits DVD just before I came into work today and got up to the point where the promotional video for “I See Red” was shown. I think “I See Red” was their only other hit in the UK, though I do not think it got into the Top 40. I suppose anyone who is a fan of The Finn Brothers would know a lot of Split Enz songs, whilst other people may know “Six Months In A Leaky Boat” or “Message To My Girl”. I think the former song was voted, alongside McLennan-Forster’s “Cattle and Cane”, as one of the greatest Australian songs ever because Split Enz were living in Melbourne at the time [however, I think the famously cramped living conditions that gave Crowded House their name was a reference to a time living in Los Angeles in the mid 1980s rather than at this point in Melbourne]. In regards to “Message To My Girl”, people may also know this song if they happened to collect all those free CDs that came with Mojo in the mid 1990s, as “Message To My Girl” was featured in a version that was recorded with the national New Zealand Symphony Orchestra. This version was credited to ‘ENZSO’ [not to be confused with the duo Enso, the name being a combination of Enz and N.Z.S.O.] and came from an album released in about 1996, that featured most of the Split Enz back catalogue recorded orchestrally. I never got to listen to the entire ENZSO album, as my friend at University, who was a big fan of Neil Finn, never got around to lending it me after he said he would so I cannot confirm whether the album was largely instrumental or not. I have still got all of my Mojo CDs and “Message To My Girl” is one track worth playing from the masses of artists that I have now forgotten about [the ones who were supposed to be the ‘Next Big Thing’]. It is a beautiful version of the song and I actually prefer it to the original. Anyone who likes Crowded House and is also a fan of the orchestral sounds of ABC’s ‘Lexicon Of Love’ album, should check this record out. I think the ‘ENZSO’ album was performed at least once in concert, but I doubt if all the orchestra would have painted all their faces for the show. Unlike Kiss, I cannot imagine the group reforming for gigs with all the original 1970s make-up, especially if the reunion featured Neil Finn, who joined much later on when he was about 21. I think I was about 21 when Crowded House originally split up in the 1990s and must have been 12 or 13, when I first saw the video to “Don’t Dream It’s Over” on The Chart Show. Other bands from Australasia that I have liked during this years include The Triffids, Midnight Oil, INXS, Frenté, The Go-Betweens and Mental As Anything, all acts that I guess people on here would have heard about before. Loz

It is a name that I have heard of many times before in passing, though I am not at all familiar with his work. I think his songs would be something that either Patricia Kass or Ute Lemper would sing, as I think he would write the kind of torch songs that would work well in a smoky cabaret bar somewhere in Paris or Berlin. To be honest, I am not too sure if Bertolt Brecht would have been German or French. With a name such as Bertolt Brecht I would say he was German, though obviously as boundaries have changed over the years, I cannot be certain [for example Herbert Lom is so old that I think he was born in the time of the Austro-Hungarian Empire] Actually, I might be getting myself mixed up between Brecht and Kurt Weill at this present moment. It is more than likely that I am thinking about Weill, as I know that he would have been writing songs at the time of The Weimar Republic, a period in history that I would mostly associate with the sound and image of Ute Lemper. That is about as much as I know about Weill, who as a reference, probably is to music as what Rainer Werner Fassbinder was to films, seeing as they are names from German culture I have heard about, but unlike Werner Herzog and various ‘Kosmische’ groups of the 1970s, not artists that I have seen discussed in depth before, whether on BBC Four or in the press. It could be the case that Weill’s life has been on BBC Four before, but in an art or history series that was so ‘highbrow’ that I decided against viewing. I think the ‘Legends’ series is about as far as I will go when it comes to serious cultural documentaries, as I generally like watching the more populist music shows broadcast by the BBC on Friday nights, such as ‘Synth Britannia’. I found the documentary about the ‘Kosmische’/Krautrock groups of the 1970s very interesting, when it was shown a few months ago on BBC Four and I hope this will be followed up with a documentary on the European electronic music scene of the 1980s. I suppose if the BBC does commission this kind of documentary, then at least they will have a chance to show the live concert by Kraftwerk again. They are a group that I have respected for many years, though in relation to this thread, I think somebody else has already mentioned the situation regarding people’s preference for “The Model” over “Computer Love”. Unlike Kraftwerk, one act that I did briefly mention earlier was Flo & Eddie [a duo who were originally in The Turtles]. Now I do not know if anybody else listened to the Radio 2 show about Glam Rock, that was broadcast last night at 10pm, but I did and was surprised to hear their names were mentioned a number of times in regards to the recordings of T Rex. Along with T Rex the show mainly focused on David Bowie, as it was the first part of a documentary series that will be concluded tonight with a look at bands such as Slade and Sweet. Whilst I would expect that no Glam Rock fan would fault the Number One hits of T Rex or Slade, I think that there might be a few better recommendations for Bowie, especially when considering “Dancing In The Street”, as most pundits seem to regard that song as an embarrassment in Bowie’s back catalogue. Loz