Danny

Wasn't he? I remember being pleasantly surprised at how much I agreed with what he said on the economy and public services. The only thing that stopped him being seen as a "left-wing" candidate was because Iraq was (mistakenly in retrospect) seen as the big issue in that contest, and Burnham was unapologetic about it.

I thought you agreed a few weeks ago that Labour's loss had nothing to do with people in (far from affluent) southern towns thinking Labour would tax the rich too much or that they were supposedly "anti-business". In any case, in that video, Burnham says something which you'd probably consider to be left-wing and un-New Labour (hugely increased spending on elderly care, paid for with tax increases) and that group of swing voters liked it, or in the case of that old guy who didn't like the idea, still said he'd vote for him because he was a "nice guy". An unrepresentative sample to be sure, but still.

Interestingly, this item from 2010 showed "Red Andy" as the favourite of a group of swing voters (SOUTHERN "aspirational" swing voters at that), ahead of both Milibands. 7YwOWckI3gs

Hilariously, people on Twitter are saying Kendall should be picked on the basis that she is (supposedly) the one "the Tories fear". You would've thought the Jim Murphy disaster would've shown that hardcore Tories are the absolute WORST at judging what works for a Labour leader.

That's never stopped me before, but in any case, I'm not sure what's especially moronic about that post (unless we're still on the idea that calling a woman a witch is sexist).

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it makes much difference one way or the other if we're in the EU. Immature as it sounds though, if the big business fat cats all start lining up and telling people to do what they say if they want to stay benefitting from their generosity, then I might vote Out just to take them down a peg or two (the reverse to so many people who were saying a year ago they would vote Out of the EU, but have now switched to In apparently just because they don't want to be associated with Nigel Farage).

Again, these are the types of argument the Right just trotted out in favour of the Tories. I don't believe for a minute these businesses would actually leave if we left the EU, just as I don't believe they would leave if taxes were put up or if they were made to pay their workers more, because the fundamental advantages of doing business in one of the most wealthy and highly-educated countries in the world are not going to suddenly disappear.

It looks like Cameron is going to negotiate away most of those things anyway. If he does, what is the incentive to stay in just so that big businesses can maximise their profits and money can be wasted on super-bureaucracy?

I think the Labourlist poll in the last contest proved quite accurate, though. What's really mortifying is, in the donkey derby behind Saint Jeremy, Blair Witch Project has a reasonably good showing.

I'm still not understanding why supporting the EU is an article of faith for lefties now. I'm going to need more than vague claims about how "our economy relies on it" (the same kind of mindless unsubstantiated "don't rock the boat" argument which was just trotted out in favour of the Tories) to make me vote to stay in.

Hilariously, Jeremy Corbyn has won the Labourlist poll for next leader by a landslide, presumably because people are sick of all the other candidates endlessly spewing Toryish things that even Blair would've refrained from: http://labourlist.org/2015/06/jeremy-corby...dership-survey/ However, Labour MPs seem determined to prove how out of touch they are with the grassroots by not putting either him or Stella Creasy (the members' choice for deputy) even on the ballot.

Liz Kendall giving off the air of a particularly patronising primary school teacher, especially when she starts going on about how outrageous it would be to possibly leave the EU: zItOPhu8noY #theelectablecandidate

I'm failing to understand why you'd get rid of Mel B for Rita bloody Ora.

UGH: Dan Wootton ‏@danwootton 1h1 hour ago BIG Bizarre X Factor exclusive in @TheSunNewspaper tomorrow...It's Rita!

But that's the point - most people don't ever pay attention to politics, but to be a successful politician these days you have to have a big enough personality (and/or interesting enough message) to force your way into people's minds regardless, and make a big enough impression in the 10-second snippets on the news that people might occasionally see or in the quotes people might occasionally glance at in the papers. I bet even Stella Creasy has higher name recognition than she does despite never holding a notionally big position. Also worth bearing in mind that the YouGov internet panels are far more politically-interested than average (something like half of them had claimed to watch one of the debates) - yet she's still only scraping 7% support even with them.

Kendall has been getting hyped by the media too. I guess I'm just finding it hard to understand how her "lack of name recognition" is supposed to be an excuse for her poor performance in the polls. If she / her message is not interesting enough to get the public to pay attention, isn't that kind of a problem for a potential leader?

Someone on Politicalbetting just unearthed these figures actually. By October 2005, two months before the end of the contest, Cameron had shot to a comfortable lead in the public polls. This despite the fact he'd only entered the shadow cabinet earlier that year (whereas Kendall's been there for nearly 4 years already). http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Poli.../OctICMpoll.pdf

Would hate to have him as leader (like most of the so-called "hard left" he seems obsessed with what happened during Thatcher's time), but since that's obviously not going to happen, I can safely vote for him just to send a message.

Same, ironically the fact she's got a reputation as a "centrist" might mean she actually has some freedom to have some mildly left-leaning policies. Burnham looks like he'd just be another Miliband (so utterly paranoid about being seen as "left-wing" that he moves endlessly to the right on policy in a futile attempt to shut up the critics).

Lol, juvenile yes but hardly sexist. Is calling a man a "prat" also sexist? Just because an insult is only used to describe one gender, that doesn't mean the insult is because of their gender. Not sure what's meant by "early years", but I'm not sure being more in favour of wars than the Tories is going to be a particularly good argument to be LABOUR leader.

If supporting the basic right to strike is now a mark of how someone is "left-wing" then that says a lot. Where are the differences between Blair Witch Project and the Tories on welfare, public spending, privatisation of public services, taxes, general help for the poor, business/market regulation, etc.?

No, but it is that she's too scared to have any positions on anything that are distinctive from the Conservatives, except on the EU. Which like the Lib Dems would mean Labour have nothing interesting to say and just get dismissed as irrelevant.

Absolutely - and I think replicating the Lib Dems' spectacularly unsuccessful message for the election just gone, with a leader who doesn't even have Clegg-levels of charisma to compensate for how weak the message is, is the very last thing that would work.

Why didn't they pay attention to Miliband for so long, then? I'm just saying if her whole pitch is going to be "you may hate my policies but I can make Labour win", then she'd better hope she starts topping the public polls by the time of the leadership election so that she actually has some evidence to back up her claim.

But interest in politics is ALWAYS low - what makes you think there's going to be all these automatic opportunities for her to establish herself once she's elected? The successful politicians have to essentially force their way into the public consciousness. Most of the public knew nothing about Miliband for his first 2-3 years (until the hysterical scaremongering kicked in) because he/his message just couldn't leave an impression on the many people who didn't watch Newsnight, and there aren't any signs so far that Kendall is any different.