davetaylor

Here are 42 minutes of POTP from 12th Jan 1964: (Noteably just after Alan's very first presentation of TOTP on the 8th Jan) http://youtu.be/9MRHv1ro974 20 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 17 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 12 Stay - The Hollies New Releases Hey Lover - Susan Maughan Will You Be My Lover Tonight - George Bean Whispering - Nino Tempo & April Stevens Tonight You're Gonna Fall In Love With Me - The Shirelles The Boy You're Kissing - Mark Wynter Donna Donna (Why Do You Wanna Do That) - The Voices Of Chris Jensen Dance With Me - Jay & The Americans LP Spot It's You Or No One - Bobby Darin (Track: All Or Nothing At All) Top 10 10 08 Secret Love - Kathy Kirby 09 06 Dominique - Singing Nun 08 04 You Were Made For Me - Freddie And The Dreamers 07 09 Swingin' On A Star - Big Dee Irwin & Little Eva 06 03 She Loves You - The Beatles 05 06 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 04 05 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 03 10 Hippy Hippy Shake - Swinging Blue Jeans 01 02 Glad All Over - Dave Clark Five 01 01 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles

Check out the BBC Motion Gallery site. Many Top Of The Pops on line. http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go..._13567821487952

Gold? You listen to Gold? I can't believe that with all the decent Internet Oldies stations around, you have to listen to a station for the braindead. Gold's Playlist: Let's play the same 500 sings over & over & over again.

Top Of The Pops 1977 Part 2 (26th Dec 77): http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go..._13564766463782

BBC4 won't be showing part 2 of the Christmas Show from 1977, as it's hosted by DLT (assisted by Blackbum). If I find a copy, i'll post it. Meanwhile here is 17th Nov 1977 (& JS): http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go..._13563887884474 Chris, unfortunately Chris Hill's performances on the 1975 & 1976 TOTPs are both missing. The Goodies "Father Christmas Do Not Touch Me" is different. As Radio One & TOTPs had a ruling with double A sides. The Radio One Top 20 (& Tom Browne) always played "Father Christmas" in December 74 & TOTPs always featured "The Inbetweenies". The same when TOTPs always featured "First Cut Is The Deepest" & Rod Stewart. The Top 20 always played "I Don't Want To Talk About It".

Funnily on 10th Dec 88 in London, Bros went to the top. Must of been close in the London area, for the 10th.

Much agree Chris. It is a lovely song & very underplayed, although a big hit. And all of Dana's hits are very underplayed. When was the last time you heard "Fairytale". Only made #13, but shifted just as many as "It's Gonna Be A Cold Cold Christmas". 1978 will be ok to go ahead. First one penciled in for 17th Jan 2012. JS didn't present while he did "Jim'll Fix It". So the first 4 months of 78, will be ok, apart from DLT. But we have all those, we can link in the future. So, watch this space....

18th Feb 69 to Sept 87 (Wednesday if Mon was a Bank Holiday) Previously you saw the chart as new, on Top Of The Pops, which was a Wednesday evening from 1st Jan 64 to 1965 & a Thursday, there after. Before 1964, you had to wait until Sunday at 4pm on Pick Of The Pops & between March 58 & Dec 61, Saturday at 11pm on Pick Of The Pops, when the charts were aimed at your parents & not teenagers, hence some non playing of Elvis etc. And the album chart on a Wednesday July 69 to Sept 87 (Thursday if Mon was Bank Holiday). No Album Chart announced, before then. And Albums were included in the overall chart from March 58 to April 66. Of course i'm talking BBC there. Not a pulled together book, that ignores the BBC's charts. The first chart I heard on the Radio, would of been Pete Murray on Radio Luxembourg & the Top 20 on Sunday's at 11pm. Somewhere around 1957, which would be the first I can remember! 1957 would be the Sheet Music Chart, as record charts did not feature on Radio until Oct/Nov 57.

And the 1st Dec 1977 show (also not shown): http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go..._13562090817952

Here's the 22nd Dec 1977 edition (which of course won't be shown): http://youtu.be/hSbsRGt6euo

No. It was a thing put about by the compilers of the self made fanzine "Chartwatch". Never was a chart compiled. And if you look at the Record Business Research figures. There is no way that "War Is Over", overtook "Starting Over", let alone "Grandma". Even with a mythical 33% Woolworths extra added figure. For not including Woolworths, you lose nearly half of Granma's figure, hence why "Starting Over" was the Record Business Magazine Christmas #1. Infact I believe "Grandma" only made #3 on that chart & Jona Lewie was #1, before Lennon was shot. The NME & Melody Maker can't even be compared for different cut off days. NME going from Thursday to Weds & MM from Fri to Thurs. In anycase, both of those papers didn't do a chart that week, either. Week ending 3rd of Jan 81 is actually the chart, that would of appeared in the papers on Week ending 27th Dec...except there were no editions, that week! The NME & MM Charts were always available on a Saturday morning. So, w/k ending 3rd Jan (for NME & MM), were new charts on 20th & covered the period 11th to 17th Dec (for NME) & 12th to 18th (for MM)...Not like Dasher stated at all, even. From what i've also seen, is likely BMRB made a mistake in putting it at #2 on Tuesday 6th Jan 81. Figures going in wrong boxes, all over the place. What with 3 Lennons & Jona Lewie (with the same initials) the chart was a mess. It's more likely that it only really made #3, not even #2. Where (i'm likely to reckon) that Starting Over was really still at #2 on the 6th. the 6th covered 29th to 3rd Jan. Indicating falling sales in a quiet period. Even more apparent on Tuesday 13th, when the single was #3.

And what makes Gambaccini the same, by saying "Pick Of The Pops" was essential listening in the 60s? It was, yes...but he didn't actually come to Britain, until 1970! He'd of been brought up by Billboard & even they didn't use Record Retailer. On Swern: Yep, he was a Record Producer & only on rather crappy hits, like The Pearls & the like. You can dedicate the Virgin book to both Swern & Gambaccini, as they are both Virgin's, where the charts are concerned. Both bought up on reading books, without having the proper knowledge. Gambaccini, even more so. The programme lacked the words of Derek Chinnery. He should of been on, as he created the BBC charts & had a hand in pushing towards BMRB.

Exactly, Mr Tibbs. You had a row of columns, with the Artist's name, backwards i.e. Sinatra, Nancy & Small Faces. So, all too easy to put figures in the wrong box. And it may of happened, on a couple of occasions, with BMRB in the 70s & early 80s too... And Steve201: Radio Luxembourg, weren't really ahead of the BBC, as Luxy broadcasted the Sheet Music Top 20, until 27th Dec 1959 (abeit a week behind with Pete Murray) & then went to the NME top 20, from 3rd Jan 1960. They were ahead, when Barry Alldis took the Luxy Top 20 show, to Saturday Lunchtimes, with a special Weekend NME chart from July 1966. A short lived affair, that became a pretty much made up own Luxy Top 20, when Paul Burnett took over in March 1967.

They were spread around the Country, Yes Martin. Melody Maker also did something no other chart did. They also included a poll from Ireland. It was shops like Hickies, Co-Operative Stores & tons of the stand alone Record Shops. Melody Maker had a niche into the Jazz sector originally, then had a slight biased to the Northern Dance sector from around 65-68, then got a bit biased to reggae & ska. Which showed in their 31 - 50 positions. NME's niche went into the folk of Dylan & into the Hendrix fanbase from the mid 60s, onwards. Then (like I already said) Record Retailer (& also Disc) were very Middle Of The Road orientated. Genres & Sectors, that could really only be brought together by averaging the charts, together. A chart of charts. And hardly surprising mistakes did occur, not to say hype. Though Melody Maker were not prone to mistakes, but hype in those 31 to 50 positions. To combat that, they stopped publishing the 31 to 50 in April 67 & shrunk to a Top 30, as did Disc, although they still compiled a Top 50. Then (of course) 180 charts were collected by phone to Melody Maker & then they just added those 180 charts together, to make their own average. Exactly what NME did with 100 charts, Disc with 75 & Record Retailer with 60. Hence, why Derek Chinnery (at the BBC) decided to do the same, with the published charts. He'd get them sent to him on a Tuesday & just added them all together, with variable mistakes himself. Obviously not taken that care, with the maths. Some week's, he got his 12 year old daughter, to add them together! Then they got their first airing on Top Of The Pops on a Wednesday evening at 6.40 in 1964, with Dusty Springfield kicking off that first historic show, with Jimmy Savile. The BBC's very first chart aired on Pick Of The Pops on Sunday 30th March 1958 at 11pm, with David Jacobs & never did he play a certain Jackie Dennis record, callled "La Dee Dah". All though it was in the top 20, for a good 8 weeks! You have today's listener battle with Independant Radio & it was pretty much the same in the 50s. For Radio Luxembourg span out their Sheet Music Top 20 at the same time, as Pick of the Pops. Then began battling further, when they both kept switching their shows, back & forth from Sunday to Saturday. There was Luxembourg going for the teenager, but the BBC were still playing new releases, from 1940s artists instead of playing Tommy Steele, Little Richard & Elvis, they'd rather be playing Geraldo, Sinatra & Crosby. Then came the 1958 Pick Of The Pops number one review of the year....David Jacobs, still managed to get Peggy Lee in, although she only made number 6!

Well Record Retailer was a Saturday to Friday chart with a 30 shop poll in 1960, rising to 60 shops in 1966. But it hides all tied positions. I was told that various tied Number ones, were separated, by taking a look at the previous week's positions i.e. the higher the place, of a record the previous week, determined the separation of a joint position. Please Please Me, being a separated tie too, with Wayward Wind. But Wayward Wind, was apparently awarded top spot, as it were higher than Please Please Me, on the previous week. NME did 2 Singles charts. One for the Paper itself, the other for Radio Luxembourg & Billboard. The Paper chart was Mon to Sat & the Luxembourg/Billboard cut off on a Friday. It had risen from 25 shops to 150 by 1963. Melody Maker was a Monday to Saturday chart. Rising from 25 shops in 1956 to 100 in 1960, to 150 in 1963, to 180 in 1967. This being the one, seen on most walls in the shops & also used by Radio Caroline & Ready Steady Go. Record Mirror was a Monday to Saturday chart. With the biggest amount of 1950s poll of 60 shops. Putting it above NME. The chart ceased on 17th March 1962. Disc was a Saturday to Friday chart. With the poorest poll in 1958, but rose to 75 shops by 1963 & ahead of Record Retailer's 30 shop poll. Pop Weekly started in September 62 - 1966 & averaged the 4 other charts & polled 10 other shops of their own. Top Pops started in 1968 to 1971 & polled WHSmith & Sons only, on a Mon to Sat basis. Cashbox Magazine (in the States) used a similar thing to Pop Weekly (for British Singles) & then from February 69, switched to Melody Maker's top 30. EMI produced an average chart, with a HMV sweep of 10% (this one did appear in some HMV shops & was used by the EMI company trade people. All papers (apart from Record Retailer) kept tied positions intact. You could say NME & Melody Maker were the better of the 5 regular Music Paper charts. Those 2 together, would give a more informed/compiled chart, as the Mon to Sat period was probably best.

Rather worded wrongly document "1952 saw the birth of Britain's Official Singles Chart". Quel surprise! "The Sales Week 3rd Feb - 8th Feb 1969 saw the birth of Britain's Official Chart". Now, that really is official! Think I'll report it to the Police, for false deception. It can be proven.

Certainly did Steve. The crowning glory, as a certain chappy took the Virgin Top 40 Book, pointed to "Please Please Me" at number 2. Yet, it did really make number one, he said. Phillip Swern explaining about the BBC Averaged chart, put him up in my reckoning. Even though, he hasn't got the balls, to tell his Pick Of The Pops audience, this. Which he should of been doing, every week, since this excuse of a show, became a retro programme in 1989, but hasn't.

Since we discussed the 3 way tie in 1968, other info was brought to my attention. That being a mistake in NME, with Tom Jones & Tommy James. Which meant part of Tommy's points were awarded to Tom Jones. So, NME's Top 5 that week should of read: 01 05 I've Gotta Get A Message To You 02 03 This Guy's In Love With You 03 06 Do It Again 04 01 Mony Mony 05 04 Help Yourself With that alone, it put the Bee Gees, as the sole BBC average #1. Then, we've got the Top Pops Magazine WHSmith chart (not in the average) putting the Bee Gees more ahead & either way it's a joint #2 for Herb & the Beach Boys. Going through the BBC Charts, there are points (from May 1960 to March 62) when there are more ties...this is again due to the BBC only using 3 charts in the average. It was impossible to include Record Mirror anymore, as they changed their compilation day & Record Retailer was always late. Then from March 1962, both were released earlier in the week. Similar story from 2nd Sept 67 to February 8th 69. Though, when Radio One started, Denys Jones cancelled out ties, & only used them, if a record was going up or a new entry. All records going down that tied, were separated. Personally I don't really think ties mattered or not. Some of the BBC ties would also not of occured, if Record Retailer had not separated their own ties, in a bad fashion. There were many times, that Record Retailer hid ties by looking at the previous week's position of the record. I was once told that even that 31st Aug 68 RR chart, also had a tie at the top with the Beach Boys & Bee Gees. Again, had that not been separated, it would of pushed the Bee Gees, even further ahead on the BBC average.

The first line BBC Radio One "Personality", is a contadiction on it's own. Personality? What Personality? Quite hilarious! Relevance? Relevant to the age of those that purchase & download songs i.e. most under 40s. Albums much more relevant to a bigger age range, is what he should be saying & not about just "kids".

NME, MM & DISC also included EPs. NME & Disc LPs, too. Those 2 & the BBC were known as Britain's Top Selling Records, hence why they included the lot...Although MM, never included LPs. LPs were dropped from Disc in 1966, as sales increased on LPs. The BBC chart, also dropped LPs in 66. The BBC never actually used an LP chart, until July 69. A typical LP wouldn't sell much in a week, before 1966, unless you were the Beatles, the Stones, Sinatra or Lonnie Donegan. Record Retailer was not the most accurate chart of the time. That is a fallacy. It was a trade magazine, mainly of news for the manager & pop performer. It just so happened to carry a chart page - A poll of 30 - 60 shops...No one in the industry took a blind bit of notice of it's charts. It just published one, that's all. When the magazine arrived through your letter box0 (usually a Friday, even the chart in it, was a week out of date. There wasn't a MOST ACCURATE of the time. Radio 2, don't use the BBC Charts today...Why is this, you ask? It's because of 2 things. Youngsters complained when it was used, because it doesn't match with Guiness. Rather than Radio 2's Production Team, taking the trouble to explain, the true story of charts, they either couldn't be bothered, or got lazy in digging out their own charts. All the BBC's old written material is kept at The BBC Written Archives Centre in Reading. Half of the staff, were made redundant. Cost cutting measures. So, that is the real reason. Now the BBC (well, actually Unique Broadcasting) just take the info, lazily from a published book of top 40 charts, rather than, even go near their own archives. If 4 writers, had not of made a decision to use Record Retailer for the 60s. You'd be none the wiser. Exactly if they'd of stayed with NME, or gone to any of the others. Technically they should of stuck, with the BBC. As those were the ones everybody heard on the Radio & saw on the TV. Whether they were any more accurate or not, is neither here nor there. No chart was any better than the other. They were all based on a different niche of shops (& like I just said) one on it's own, is no better than the others. Record Retailer's acuracy (as you call it, EuroMusic) just wasn't happening & if you saw the way, they put their charts together, you'd die of laughter, I fear...

The problem is though by choosing one sole Music Paper, it causes a further problem. A niche. Each Paper had one. By 1967, Melody Maker had like a 180 shop poll. The biggest yes, but many of those sales, were now HMV based. So, they out weighed the smaller outlet. Record Retailer at 60 shops, was in a niche of the more Middle Of The Road outlet. Hence why the likes of Frank Ifiled & Nancy Sinatra, appeared ahead of the Beatles & Stones, on occasion. Then, they also pulled in another MOR artist, Des O'Connor, ahead of Tommy James in 1968. Disc & Music Echo was somewhere between the two, of those. And NME, had their own 150 shop poll. But (again) had another niche. Then, WHSmith & Woolwoths, were not included in any poll. WHSmith had their own chart in Top Pops Magazine from mid 68, onwards. By joining 4 Music Papers together, the BBC pulled a better picture & ironed out mistakes in others, by doing so. The Beeb started to go wrong in 1968 i.e. the 3 way tie...which was caused by 2 things. A mistake in NME's comp & the fact that by then, the BBC were only using an average from 3 charts, as Melody Maker had taken over DISC's top 30. Really the BBC, should of then included TOP POPS Magazine's Top 30, as well. This would of ironed out, a fatal mistake in NME...NME had confused Tom Jones points, with Tommy James (as both had the same initials). This meant that the number one, for the 31st August 68, should really have been the BEE GEES. By joining 4 charts together, you get a quarter of the picture from the total of Music Papers, so totallying one big chart. Joining 3 seems to have not been enough (& that's what happened with the 3 way tie). In 1968, the number of shops polled per Music Paper, was as follows: Melody Maker 180 NME 150 Record Retailer 60 So, adding the poll of Top Pops Magazine, would of may a difference & so, ironed out any mistakes, in the other 3. With the error of NME, completing disappearing for inclusion of Top Pops. Although still none of that includes the lost Woolworths sales. You could say the middle of the road outlet of Record Retailer, could cover that (as Woolworths, did draw the MOR record buyer). But Woolworths was a hell of a lot of lost sales, so I might consider it an idea to include Record Retailers positions in an average chart twice, to even it up. Then, when all is said & done Woolworths was not included in any seen chart, until 1975.

Like I said Mr Tibbs. It's a mess. Also (similar to whay you say), according to the crap that is Wikipedia & Tiger Feet...Billy Don't Be A Hero sold more than Mud! Totally wrong of course, but Wiki says 755,000 for Paper Lace & 730,000 for Mud, during the 70s decade, as a whole. Absolute nonsense on Wiki & much the same pre 82, from the OCC. Who's running this? Tony Blackburn, Phillip Swern or Unique Broadcasting!

Working for the industry back then, Alex mate. There are many things that books, have never published about charts & many records, that did sell ok, but failed to make top 50 positions.

Thanks Robbie & Suedehead. Like I previously argued though, it would of been better if all positions from NME, Melody Maker, Disc, Record Mirror, Record Retailer & the BBC charts were all noted in the Guiness Books. I believe a book of US chart positions, did this with Billboard & Cashbox etc, in the 80s & was quite well put together. Clive Solomans "Record Hits" was a bit short of that in the UK in 1976, though it did cover E.P.s from Melody Maker & listed Record Mirror positions too. I think a better book could be put together, to feature all the above chart positions & indeed include the Sheet Music positions too, as they practically ran alongside records quite well abeit a few instrumental pieces, that sold better on the Sheet Music circuit, like "Forgotten Dreams" for instance in 1957. Certainly Melody Maker did start a Sheet Music chart, in the late 30s, but the War came along & it stopped it.

They were not known as Official Charts until 1969. No Official existed before then. When will you understand that? All are you just hypnotised, by what is put around today? The only reason Guiness chose NME & Record Retailer was because they were the first to increase to a Top 30 & Top 50. It didn't make them official. There wasn't an official chart. You could say the chart the BBC always used was official too...but it wasn't until 69 & even then (like I explained it wasn't fully excepted, until 1971). I know. I lived through the 50s & 60s & followed the charts. You didn't even see Record Retailer in the shops. HMV displayed the Melody Maker Chart or the EMI Chart (depending on store). No radio station played out Record Retailer's chart, no Newspapers carried it. Even Billboard used the same Weekend NME chart, as Radio Luxembourg. Why wasn't it used by anyone? Because it had a very very low sample. Not even worth a mention. That's the real reason, they dumped their own chart to put money into the company of the British Market Research Bureau, along with the BBC, to make a more "proper" chart, as they knew their own charts, were not very well compiled, like the BBC's. You call yourself "Europe's Biggest Music Fan", but don't even know the real British history of charts. The only thing true, that you've said is that NME were the first to publish a Record Chart, but it wasn't based on actual sales, anyway. No chart was. Until 69. Before that it was averages & points for the lot...even Record Retailer used an average points system, not disimilar to the BBC, who just lumped the lot together for a better idea, even though slightly flawed. All you have in you "Guiness Book Of Hit Singles" is a decided chart in 1977, by an American, A local Radio DJ & a couple of lyricists. Which is fact. In actual fact, that book should of featured every chart position, of every charting single from NME, DISC, MELODY MAKER, RECORD MIRROR & RECORD RETAILER, up until 1969 & then (only then) switched to the British Market Research Bureau chart...but they didn't & even Gambaccini, admits that. But he's more bothered about appearing on various pop pundit shows (usually after someone has died) instead of getting his act together by doing a proper chart book.