davetaylor

Certainly did Steve. The crowning glory, as a certain chappy took the Virgin Top 40 Book, pointed to "Please Please Me" at number 2. Yet, it did really make number one, he said. Phillip Swern explaining about the BBC Averaged chart, put him up in my reckoning. Even though, he hasn't got the balls, to tell his Pick Of The Pops audience, this. Which he should of been doing, every week, since this excuse of a show, became a retro programme in 1989, but hasn't.

Since we discussed the 3 way tie in 1968, other info was brought to my attention. That being a mistake in NME, with Tom Jones & Tommy James. Which meant part of Tommy's points were awarded to Tom Jones. So, NME's Top 5 that week should of read: 01 05 I've Gotta Get A Message To You 02 03 This Guy's In Love With You 03 06 Do It Again 04 01 Mony Mony 05 04 Help Yourself With that alone, it put the Bee Gees, as the sole BBC average #1. Then, we've got the Top Pops Magazine WHSmith chart (not in the average) putting the Bee Gees more ahead & either way it's a joint #2 for Herb & the Beach Boys. Going through the BBC Charts, there are points (from May 1960 to March 62) when there are more ties...this is again due to the BBC only using 3 charts in the average. It was impossible to include Record Mirror anymore, as they changed their compilation day & Record Retailer was always late. Then from March 1962, both were released earlier in the week. Similar story from 2nd Sept 67 to February 8th 69. Though, when Radio One started, Denys Jones cancelled out ties, & only used them, if a record was going up or a new entry. All records going down that tied, were separated. Personally I don't really think ties mattered or not. Some of the BBC ties would also not of occured, if Record Retailer had not separated their own ties, in a bad fashion. There were many times, that Record Retailer hid ties by looking at the previous week's position of the record. I was once told that even that 31st Aug 68 RR chart, also had a tie at the top with the Beach Boys & Bee Gees. Again, had that not been separated, it would of pushed the Bee Gees, even further ahead on the BBC average.

The first line BBC Radio One "Personality", is a contadiction on it's own. Personality? What Personality? Quite hilarious! Relevance? Relevant to the age of those that purchase & download songs i.e. most under 40s. Albums much more relevant to a bigger age range, is what he should be saying & not about just "kids".

NME, MM & DISC also included EPs. NME & Disc LPs, too. Those 2 & the BBC were known as Britain's Top Selling Records, hence why they included the lot...Although MM, never included LPs. LPs were dropped from Disc in 1966, as sales increased on LPs. The BBC chart, also dropped LPs in 66. The BBC never actually used an LP chart, until July 69. A typical LP wouldn't sell much in a week, before 1966, unless you were the Beatles, the Stones, Sinatra or Lonnie Donegan. Record Retailer was not the most accurate chart of the time. That is a fallacy. It was a trade magazine, mainly of news for the manager & pop performer. It just so happened to carry a chart page - A poll of 30 - 60 shops...No one in the industry took a blind bit of notice of it's charts. It just published one, that's all. When the magazine arrived through your letter box0 (usually a Friday, even the chart in it, was a week out of date. There wasn't a MOST ACCURATE of the time. Radio 2, don't use the BBC Charts today...Why is this, you ask? It's because of 2 things. Youngsters complained when it was used, because it doesn't match with Guiness. Rather than Radio 2's Production Team, taking the trouble to explain, the true story of charts, they either couldn't be bothered, or got lazy in digging out their own charts. All the BBC's old written material is kept at The BBC Written Archives Centre in Reading. Half of the staff, were made redundant. Cost cutting measures. So, that is the real reason. Now the BBC (well, actually Unique Broadcasting) just take the info, lazily from a published book of top 40 charts, rather than, even go near their own archives. If 4 writers, had not of made a decision to use Record Retailer for the 60s. You'd be none the wiser. Exactly if they'd of stayed with NME, or gone to any of the others. Technically they should of stuck, with the BBC. As those were the ones everybody heard on the Radio & saw on the TV. Whether they were any more accurate or not, is neither here nor there. No chart was any better than the other. They were all based on a different niche of shops (& like I just said) one on it's own, is no better than the others. Record Retailer's acuracy (as you call it, EuroMusic) just wasn't happening & if you saw the way, they put their charts together, you'd die of laughter, I fear...

The problem is though by choosing one sole Music Paper, it causes a further problem. A niche. Each Paper had one. By 1967, Melody Maker had like a 180 shop poll. The biggest yes, but many of those sales, were now HMV based. So, they out weighed the smaller outlet. Record Retailer at 60 shops, was in a niche of the more Middle Of The Road outlet. Hence why the likes of Frank Ifiled & Nancy Sinatra, appeared ahead of the Beatles & Stones, on occasion. Then, they also pulled in another MOR artist, Des O'Connor, ahead of Tommy James in 1968. Disc & Music Echo was somewhere between the two, of those. And NME, had their own 150 shop poll. But (again) had another niche. Then, WHSmith & Woolwoths, were not included in any poll. WHSmith had their own chart in Top Pops Magazine from mid 68, onwards. By joining 4 Music Papers together, the BBC pulled a better picture & ironed out mistakes in others, by doing so. The Beeb started to go wrong in 1968 i.e. the 3 way tie...which was caused by 2 things. A mistake in NME's comp & the fact that by then, the BBC were only using an average from 3 charts, as Melody Maker had taken over DISC's top 30. Really the BBC, should of then included TOP POPS Magazine's Top 30, as well. This would of ironed out, a fatal mistake in NME...NME had confused Tom Jones points, with Tommy James (as both had the same initials). This meant that the number one, for the 31st August 68, should really have been the BEE GEES. By joining 4 charts together, you get a quarter of the picture from the total of Music Papers, so totallying one big chart. Joining 3 seems to have not been enough (& that's what happened with the 3 way tie). In 1968, the number of shops polled per Music Paper, was as follows: Melody Maker 180 NME 150 Record Retailer 60 So, adding the poll of Top Pops Magazine, would of may a difference & so, ironed out any mistakes, in the other 3. With the error of NME, completing disappearing for inclusion of Top Pops. Although still none of that includes the lost Woolworths sales. You could say the middle of the road outlet of Record Retailer, could cover that (as Woolworths, did draw the MOR record buyer). But Woolworths was a hell of a lot of lost sales, so I might consider it an idea to include Record Retailers positions in an average chart twice, to even it up. Then, when all is said & done Woolworths was not included in any seen chart, until 1975.

Like I said Mr Tibbs. It's a mess. Also (similar to whay you say), according to the crap that is Wikipedia & Tiger Feet...Billy Don't Be A Hero sold more than Mud! Totally wrong of course, but Wiki says 755,000 for Paper Lace & 730,000 for Mud, during the 70s decade, as a whole. Absolute nonsense on Wiki & much the same pre 82, from the OCC. Who's running this? Tony Blackburn, Phillip Swern or Unique Broadcasting!

Working for the industry back then, Alex mate. There are many things that books, have never published about charts & many records, that did sell ok, but failed to make top 50 positions.

Thanks Robbie & Suedehead. Like I previously argued though, it would of been better if all positions from NME, Melody Maker, Disc, Record Mirror, Record Retailer & the BBC charts were all noted in the Guiness Books. I believe a book of US chart positions, did this with Billboard & Cashbox etc, in the 80s & was quite well put together. Clive Solomans "Record Hits" was a bit short of that in the UK in 1976, though it did cover E.P.s from Melody Maker & listed Record Mirror positions too. I think a better book could be put together, to feature all the above chart positions & indeed include the Sheet Music positions too, as they practically ran alongside records quite well abeit a few instrumental pieces, that sold better on the Sheet Music circuit, like "Forgotten Dreams" for instance in 1957. Certainly Melody Maker did start a Sheet Music chart, in the late 30s, but the War came along & it stopped it.

They were not known as Official Charts until 1969. No Official existed before then. When will you understand that? All are you just hypnotised, by what is put around today? The only reason Guiness chose NME & Record Retailer was because they were the first to increase to a Top 30 & Top 50. It didn't make them official. There wasn't an official chart. You could say the chart the BBC always used was official too...but it wasn't until 69 & even then (like I explained it wasn't fully excepted, until 1971). I know. I lived through the 50s & 60s & followed the charts. You didn't even see Record Retailer in the shops. HMV displayed the Melody Maker Chart or the EMI Chart (depending on store). No radio station played out Record Retailer's chart, no Newspapers carried it. Even Billboard used the same Weekend NME chart, as Radio Luxembourg. Why wasn't it used by anyone? Because it had a very very low sample. Not even worth a mention. That's the real reason, they dumped their own chart to put money into the company of the British Market Research Bureau, along with the BBC, to make a more "proper" chart, as they knew their own charts, were not very well compiled, like the BBC's. You call yourself "Europe's Biggest Music Fan", but don't even know the real British history of charts. The only thing true, that you've said is that NME were the first to publish a Record Chart, but it wasn't based on actual sales, anyway. No chart was. Until 69. Before that it was averages & points for the lot...even Record Retailer used an average points system, not disimilar to the BBC, who just lumped the lot together for a better idea, even though slightly flawed. All you have in you "Guiness Book Of Hit Singles" is a decided chart in 1977, by an American, A local Radio DJ & a couple of lyricists. Which is fact. In actual fact, that book should of featured every chart position, of every charting single from NME, DISC, MELODY MAKER, RECORD MIRROR & RECORD RETAILER, up until 1969 & then (only then) switched to the British Market Research Bureau chart...but they didn't & even Gambaccini, admits that. But he's more bothered about appearing on various pop pundit shows (usually after someone has died) instead of getting his act together by doing a proper chart book.

Well it was just not based on sales, Steve. Here's how that chart was compiled. NME take 25 Charts of Top 20 sellers, from 25 Shops. Then, those 25 charts have their positions averaged out. So, 20 points for a #1, 19 for a #2, all the way down to 1 point for a #20. Likely Al Martino achieved 500 points for his #1, at a maximum. The rest is worked out into a top 12, with all ties, making it a top 15 & very close to the Sheet Musc Charts. Which were launched by Melody Maker, before the war. Then given a breather. It was about the end of 1955, when Singles started to overtake Sheet Music. No Radio Station in the UK, broadcasted Singles Charts, until March 1958 (that being the Pick Of The Pops almagamated averaged NME/MM/DISC/Record Mirror top 20s. Radio Luxembourg dropped the Sheet Music Chart, for the NME Top 20 in January 1960. From July 1966, NME supplied them, with a weekend top 20 (different from the one in the paper). From March 1967, Radio Luxembourg used their own made up chart, until 1978, when they began to use the Record Business Top 30. BBC LIGHT PROGRAMME continued with Average charts. Dropping Record Mirror in May 1960, so they just averaged NME, DISC & MELODY MAKER. On the 31st March, the average featured NME, DISC, MELODY MAKER & Record Retailer. Though Record Retailer was slated for having small polls of just 30 shops & separated hidden tied positions, whilst other papers had 75, 100 & 150 polled shops. Melody Maker swallowed up DISC's chart in 1967. So the BBC average used NME, DISC & RECORD RETAILER. A mistake in NME in August 1968, led to a wrong 3 way tie, on the BBC Top 30. This led to the forming a first computerised sales panel chart on 11th Feb 1969. Though this was also open to many short falls of returns, right up to the mid 70s. It wasn't really accepted by most people, until mid 1971. If anyone starts talking about Official Charts, before 1969...Then, they are LYING! Coz, there wasn't one.

Got to be Billy Fury, easily.

Well as we know Robbie, even they do not have access to chart sales info, previous to 1994. This particular list, just contradicts itself, & there doesn't seem to be any continuity method to it. A bit of a mess. Methodically we know that "The Harry Lime Theme" & Anton Karas was the best seller of 1950 & "Too Young" with the almighty Jimmy Young, was the best seller in 1951.

Definately not the case. If that was the case you'd of had Rock Around The Clock for 1955, Merry Christmas Everybody from 1973 & Bohemain Rhapsody from 1975. Trust me. This programme is reknown for coming out with confusion. Whatever happened to proper BBC producers like Roger Pusey & the late great Bernie Andrews, & not some ex-Capital Radio Unique Broadcasting mob? Good Griefna! :cry: Although no lists of best selling singles exist for 1952-69, as all charts (in those days) were based on points & NOT sales. And it's pretty much a big mockery, as the BBC did their first Top 20 on 29th March 1958 with David Jacobs.

A lot of this show was nonsense. Distant Drums, In The Summertime, Tainted Love were the actual best sellers of 1966, 1970 & 1981 respectively & not what Phillip Swern decided on. Plus (i'm pretty 99% certain) thae Are You Lonesome Tonight was the top seller of 1961 & not Wooden Heart.

The Saturday top 30 was the New Record Business Magazine Top 30. Which (of course) was based on a Fri to Thurs period. UK's Biggest Top 30, I think they called it. That started in March 1978. Top 10 Past & Present was where Capital got their idea, for Pick Of The Pops - Take Two, from. By 1983, this had become a Vintage Chart type show & played a couple of old Top 20s. In early December 1983, they did December 66 & December 76. Both out of the Radio Luxembourg archives, of course. That one, ran from 10pm - midnight. I can't recall what directly, what they called it. Something like "Flashback", I have an inkling of.

Songs that just missed the Top 50 between 7th July 73 & 27th Oct 73: 51 TIME TO GET DOWN - THE O'JAYS 7th July 52 OOH WHAT A FEELING - JOHNNY NASH 7th July 53 IT'S ONLY MONEY - ARGENT 14th July 51 MARIA MAGENTA - DONOVAN 21st July 52 GERDUNDULA - STATUS QUO 4th Aug 55 ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH - FOUR TOPS 11th Aug 55 MORNING GLOW - MICHAEL JACKSON 18th Aug 55 THE CLAPPING SONG - SHIRLEY ELLIS (RE-ISSUE) 1st Sept 51 VICIOUS/SATELLITE OF LOVE - LOU REED 8th Sept 54 THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAY HA HA - NAPOLEAN IX (RE-ISSUE) 15th Sept 51 CRYING IN THE RAIN - MARTY KRISTIAN (OF THE NEW SEEKERS) 22nd Sept 52 SHINE ON SILVER SUN - THE STRAWBS 22nd Sept 53 WE'VE GOT TO DO IT NOW - THE NEW SEEKERS 22nd Sept 73 54 ROCK & ROLL PEOPLE - BOBBY MCGEE 22nd Sept 56 OH SHE IS A BIG GIRL NOW - JUDGE DREAD 29th Sept 57 TIE A YELLOW RIBBON - BING CROSBY 29th Sept 6th Oct ALL I KNOW - ART GARFUNKEL BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS - THE HOTSHOTS CLOUDS - DAVID GATES DAN THE BANJO MAN - DAN THE BANJO MAN DON'T GET YOUR KNCKERS IN A TWIST - JOHNNY REGGAE DOWN AT THE CLUB - CHAOS HOLLY HOLY - JUNIOR WALKER & THE ALL STARS MONY MONY - TOMMY JAMES & THE SHONDELLS (RE-ISSUE) MY MERRY GO ROUND - JOHNNY NASH THINKING - ROGER DALTREY WHEREWITHAL - CLIFFORD T. WARD WILL IT GO ROUND IN CIRCLES - BILLY PRESTON 13th Oct BAND OF GOLD - FREDA PAYNE (RE-ISSUE) COME LIVE WITH ME - RAY CHARLES LOOK ME UP - BLUE MAGIC WONDERFUL - COLIN BLUNSTONE 20th Oct IT'S A GAME - STRING DRIVEN THING PEACEMAKER - ALBERT HAMMOND PLAY AROUND - LINDA LEWIS SWEET DESIREE - FAMILY SWEET LADY GENEVIEVE - THE KINKS 27th Oct HALF BREED - CHER MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA - GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS STAYED AWAKE ALL NIGHT - BACHMAN TURNER OVERDRIVE STONED OUT OF MY MIND - CHI-LITES TIME IS TIGHT - BOOKER T & THE MGs (RE-ISSUE) WHEN YOU SMILE - ROBERTA FLACK YOU'VE GOT MY SOUL ON FIRE - EDWIN STARR

And it will have the lowest turn out ever.

I believe it did. For Zeus: 8 Track Cartridges took us into the 70s, & the cassette came popular from 72/73 onwards

Give One Dire 7000 physicals, for the week. Consider toneless Fenty's 1500 ahead on iTunes each day mon-sat. Then you you've got her finishing up over 2000 ahead, by Saturday.

This is a note to everyone. A certain Facebook group (apparently called UK Top 40 Chart Chat) has been brought to my attention. A couple of saddos on there, are copying & pasting posts from Buzzjack. The Rihanna sales thread has been posted there & the YTD charts, are also being nicked, weekly. I know a lot of hard work goes into Buzzjack threads & the people that start, them. It's grossily unfair that these urchins, constantly steal other people's work & don't even source material, or give you any credit. Some of them even nick, other sites logos, too. If you notice this kind of thing, don't be afraid to give them a personal message (failing a kick in the teeth) :teresa:

Not the Radio One chart, Euro Music! That's very incorrect. This was the Radio One Chart: 30 27 THERE GOES MY EVERYTHING - ENGLEBERT 29 NE THE LETTER - MINDBENDERS 28 20 PLEASANT VALLEY SUNDAY 27 21 YOU KEEP ME HANGING ON - VANILLA FUDGE 26 17 HOUSE THAT JACK BUILT - ALAN PRICE SET 25 NE FROM THE UNDERWORLD - THE HERD 24 NE WHEN WILL THE GOOD APPLES FALL - SEEKERS 23 24 FIVE LITTLE FINGERS - FRANKIE MCBRIDE 22 29 ODE TO BILLY JOE - BOBBIE GENTRY 21 18 BURNING OF THE MIDNIGHT LAMP - JIMI HENDRIX 20 22 GOOD TIMES - ERIC BURDON & THE ANIMALS 19 16 I WAS MADE TO LOVE HER - STEVIE WONDER 18 13 WE LOVE YOU - ROLLING STONES 17 11 HEROES & VILLAINS - BEACH BOYS 16 19 BLACK VELVET BAND - DUBLINERS 15 26 MASSACHUSETTS - BEE GEES 14 12 JUST LOVING YOU - ANITA HARRIS 13 22 THE LETTER - BOX TOPS 12 09 EVEN THE BAD TIMES ARE GOOD - TREMOLOES 11 14 DAY I MET MARIE - CLIFF RICHARD 10 07 SAN FRANCISCO - SCOTT MCKENSIE 09 15 THERE MUST BE A WAY - FRANKIE VAUGHAN 08 04 I'LL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN - TOM JONES 07 10 HOLE IN MY SHOE - TRAFFIC 06 05 LET'S GOT TO SAN FRANCISCO - FLOWERPOT MEN 05 03 ITCHYCOO PARK - SMALL FACES 04 06 REFLECTIONS - DIANA ROSS & THE SUPREMES 03 08 FLOWERS IN THE RAIN - THE MOVE 02 02 EXCERPT FROM A TEENAGE OPERA - KEITH WEST 01 01 THE LAST WALTZ - ENGLEBERT HUMPERDINCK Oh course "The Last Waltz" was not even playlisted by Radio One. This is the difference between Pirate Radio & Radio One. Radio One was supposed to be the legal substitute for Pirate stations...Except the missed one thing. Pirate Radio had an enormous age range. Radio One was aiming at the teenage market. Pirate stations constantly played out Englebert, Frankie Vaughan, Anita Harris. Radio One did not.

I'd hazard a guess, that it's iTunes, with pre-orders included, but I don't know. It has last Saturday's date on it. So, it must update, each Saturday. In which case, it's the complete week on iTunes & you've got the pre-orders in, as a bonus. Bit of a clue, to what is likely to happen, the following week, i'd guess. Obviously they could use "Official" as in "Official" week on iTunes, only. I've been playing around with it & if you remove the pre-order bit, the top ten turns into the first part of Big Top 40, when they start the show by playing the top 10 of the week on iTunes. Funny, what you stumble on! Plus it looks like "Chart Show TV" base their top 20 singles chart, around it. Though in an abstract form i.e. we're not playing that or that. There's an album feed too: http://www.uktop40.co.uk/official_top_40_albums.rss

I noticed this UK Top 40 Charts site & wonder where this feed is from? (I'd guess iTunes) But what is based on? As it say's official & up to date. Which it does look, like. It's certainly not the rolling iTunes chart. Is it rolling on a complete week? http://www.uktop40.co.uk/official_top_40.rss

Whilst I make shows for Atlantic Oldies 2NG, also check out Oldies Pardise, too. I would actually say, it's better than 2NG, but I shouldn't really...

Many songs were ignored by Luxembourg's chart. Stuart Gillies (Amanda), Neil Reid, Johnny Pearson, Max Romeo, & all Judge Dread records...to name just a few. Some just too easy listening, others banned, were just dismissed. Hence, why it never mean't a thing & was completely made up. And you thought Big Top 40, was rather daft, ay! Though it's good to see them, Luxembourg's chart was just a guess of the following week's Radio One chart, minus their non airplay stuff. The w/k ending 1st Jan 72 can't be correct, as there wasn't a radio one chart, that week (Tues 28th Dec 71). The last one of that period was w/k 25th December 71 & announced on Tuesday 21st Dec 71 at 12.30pm, by Alan Freeman. Chart books are no good for that period, as they too, have the incorrect date. It's probably "the guess" for Tuesday 4th Jan 72. The missed chart dates of Radio One (when they never used a new chart) were: Tuesday 26th Dec 67 (The averaged top 30 never compiled, as Melody Maker didn't publish that week) Tuesday 24th Dec 68 (ditto) Tuesday 30th Dec 69 Tuesday 29th Dec 70 Tuesday 28th Dec 71 Tuesday 26th Dec 72 Tuesday 25th Dec 73 Tuesday 31st Dec 74 Tuesday 30th Dec 75 Tuesday 28th Dec 76 Tuesday 27th Dec 77 Tuesday 26th Dec 78 Tuesday 25th Dec 79 (although this chart was announced on Tuesday 1st Jan 80, a week out of date) Tuesday 30th Dec 80 Tuesday 29th Dec 81 Tuesday 28th Dec 82 Tuesday 27th Dec 83 Tuesday 25th Dec 84 (This chart was compiled & appears in chart books, but Radio One, ignored it)