FireWoman

I didn't mean he doesn't deserve a place in Take That, I know he offer a lot to the band. I just said that if I was in his place I wouldn't be sure if I WANTED to be in Take That any more.

But Mark is a very reach person, he doesn't need two jobs. ;-) I know he can do both, but why be in the band if your role is downplay constantly?-for money, fame , to please his mates? I'm not surprised you have a different opinion. I'm probably too naive, I've just not used to put things in right perspective when it comes to pop world. I'm keep forgetting that business is the most important part of it. I forgot it is primary their job- there's not much place for artistic freedom or fulfilment. You see I come from a different musical background where the priorities are 180 grades reverse. And maybe I overestimate Mark's motives of being in TT, I thought that one of them was to show that he is capable of writing good songs because TT became a great platform to do it and reportedly very democratic band. But maybe I'm wrong and Mark just want to have a constant inflow of cabbage - and it isn't important for what reasons people like him (if it's only for a lovely smile and good sense of humour- so be it). Maybe it's enough for him, maybe at heart he is more of a celebrity than artist. I dunno, several years ago I read some of his interviews from solo years and it was clear to me that music (and also his music) is the most important thing for him - more important than fame. But who knows after several years in TT he could've changed - fame and money are addictive. I just really can't figure it out, for what reason most of TT fans admire/like Mark? For what? Not for a singing voice- that's for sure ;-). How many people actually hear his input as a songwriter in TT, and on what scale is his song-writing role in TT (not knowing his solo music it is IMO pretty difficult) ? Is he responsible for a minor changes in Gary's compositions or maybe many songs are actually his? How many TT fans can answer those questions? I have a feeling that most people actually like Mark just because he is Mark (the original member of a much beloved boyband), and want him in TT just because he is Mark (no mater his talent, or input in TT) and without the brand TT their interest in Mark Owen will vanish. Pippa, I think that Mark is quite introspective writer but he is still a pop artist (with slightly alternative/indie touch) - IMO this is still a mainstream genre. His second album "In Your Own Time" was very commercial- just people didn't want to give him a chance, wouldn't bother to listen. I don't think the lack of sales of solo album will shake his confidence but it may disheartened him to future work in TT.

You know, I thought a little about Mark's chances with his solo album and I came to the conclusion that if he has some remains of integrity in him and self-respect I think he should leave Take That if his solo album will be a total flop (and what worse no critical acclaim for his new album) . I'm very serious guys. And I don't think in a way that because he'll tarnish a good name of the band, it's just if I was him I wouldn't want to be in the band where I'm liked only for my looks and and overall cuteness- this isn't 90s any more and if he really wants to be taken seriously by people, if he wants to be a true artist and not only a pop star, a celebrity it''s the only way. I think this album will be a great proof what profit (I'm not talking about financial profit) all these years in a band after reunion has given him. Because I have a fear that TT reunion has given him as much as his CBB participation- which means for his musical credibility - nothing.

Oh, if majority of people are right and Gary writes 99% of Take That stuff nowadays too, we really shouldn't be worry about Mark's confidence . And some TT fans probably will be very pleased if on the next TT album Mark doesn't have as many lead vocals as on last three albums. Mark could be perfect backing singer (like in the 90s) - and in live shows just adding backing vocals and looking cute and pretty...that would be cool. :teresa: In fact the only bad scenario could be that Mark would get pissed off and leave the band - but I doubt it, he is too nice and he won't do that to his mates from TT. But again, even this doesn't have to be the end for Take That. But seriously, I think Mark isn't naive and knows how big (or rather small) fan-base he really has. But at least his fans from solo years seem to be pretty devoted, and unfortunately I don't think he's gained a sizeable fanbase thanks to TT successful reunion. Most of TT fans IMO are Gary Barlow fans (his voice, his music). Oh, enough speculations... most important his new album has to be good- I'll be pleased if his new material is good, and I don't care that much about commercial success - although I really wish Mark all the best.

Album will be released by his label Sedna, but Mark also sign up a contract with Mercury Records, probably to support the release financially. So there is a hope for some decent promotion and maybe a single or even two. B-)

twitter messages from Michael Brauer are from November last year, so I'm sure Mark's record is finished till now. When it'll be released? Nobody know, but Brauer also twitts to Mark Owen's fan about this issue. From 17th November: The electro-pop style may suit him, you're right (but unfortunately it doesn't particularly suits my musical taste ;-)). After hearing him on Progress/Progressed it's quite easy to imagine his new sound. But what's the point to release almost identical sounding record as TT? Mark surely has developed his own style during the solo years and I would like to actually hear the difference from TT production which is too polished and simply overproduced for my taste, I like more edgy and raw sound.

Difficult to find anything substantial about Owen's new record. Ben Mark and Jamie Norton aren't too keen to share some light about it unfortunately. <_< Only interesting stuff I've found on Michael Brauer's twitter page. However these are his general feelings about Mark's new material, he doesn't speak about musical direction, instruments ect. Article on Wikipedia about Brauer begins like this: and here are his twitts about Mark Owen's material.: Hmm, looks promising. :-) To be honest, I'm not happy with the rumours that Mark want to release an electro-pop record. I hope it will turn out not true. Huge involvement of the guitarist Ben Mark and keyboardist Jamie Norton give an assumption that the record should have a respectable dose of real instruments, I really hope so. I would love the next Mark solo album be a natural progression from "How The Mighty Fall".

If it were written by Barlow I'm sure it would be a single...but unfortunately Owen isn't a big name when it comes to song-writing, he isn't credible in people's eyes. I think that's the reason why this song was omitted even if it was a good pop song and had a potential as a single.

Because you're such a polite person, you encouraged me to write here one more time :) I think we can head towards something. I think that I've found the reason why we can't agree about the input on Progress. Because you know only Rob's and Gary's styles of writing. And I must agree with you that Gary comes across as a master of pop ballads, but not very good in up-tempo and quirky music. And his lyrics are also quite formulaic and predictable. So obviously anything more bizarre has to be Robbie's influence. But I'm happy that you admitted you don't know much about Mark solo music, and I understand that you don't want to get more familiar with it because you don't like his voice. Fair enough. So how can you wisely judge his input on that album? Maybe he did more than you can guess? Most people think he's smiley, cute, little guy with musical imaginary of a boy band member (narrowed to top 40 pop chart). That can't be further from the truth. Even in the last phase of TT(in the 90s) he was into Radiohead, Jeff Buckley, The Flaming Lips... his second single (was it in 1997?) "Clementine" was about the suicide and his comeback single in 2003 was about the end of the world. I'm not "over the moon" about his first two albums but his progress ;-) in song-writing between those two albums IMO is huge. Personally I find his 3rd solo album from 2004 very good, mature and genuine effort, which is so eclectic in styles. From Ian Dury's influences ( some Honky Tonk and indie-funk...and lyrics with the f***** word ;-)), through rockin' à la Muse track (with the lyrics "..Why don't you murder me?.."), also Beatle-y , maybe even George Harrison feeling on another song, one is like a West End anthem, and some 20s old barbershop feeling on another. Gary mentioned how he was inspired by Coldplay and that HE wanted that sound for the reformed TT - but surprise surprise Mark beat Gary to this in a song "Come On". It's not like a rip off (everyone has some influences Robbie too ;-)). I can't deny I like Mark's musical taste: The Stone Roses, The Smiths, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, The Waterboys, The Killers, Joy Division amongst others. I also have a feeling he can't be 100% himself in TT (because their songs have to be catchier, poppier, more radio friendly - production is very polished). So overall I think he is very open-minded and capable to come up with more bizarre lyrics and melodies. P.S. Yes I intentionally narrowed down to 3 main songwriters because it is a fact, this isn't any revelation. Howard and Jason said numerous times in the interviews that their contribution is far less than the other 3 members. But who knows how much Howard helped them particularly on Progress, because electronic music is his fave genre and he loves Kreftwerk and apart of being in the band he's also a DJ. :-)

Mark Owen playing one string on his bass guitar was particularly amusing. :lol: But overall I find it quite endearing that they try to be more than a vocal group. Now if Jason learnt to play lead guitar instead of strumming it and Mark learnt to use the other three strings, yeah that would be something ;-) And I think that Howard on drums is OK-ish (for that pop/light rock stuff). He can keep up the 4/4 rhythm :-), but it would be interesting to see him playing 5/8 or 6/8 metrum. I don't think anyone can have any reservation towards Gary, he's good.

give me the exact examples, please :) I don't know, maybe I'm too naive. Usually I'm miles away from a pop world, especially when it comes to contemporary music. So I didn't see TT (with or without Rob) as a mainly business thing. I'm accustomed that artists (which I listen to) release music purely from the love for it and for fun, not because for the money (I know it is important too to be financially rewarded for the work, but shouldn't it be the main cause). I don't understand why do you repeat that they looked like the band(or rather vocal group ;-)) brainstorming together to come up with the songs. First of all we didn't see the whole process but only the end of it (when they were finishing the demos, when they had most of melodies and lyrics done). For me in the documentary there wasn't any stretching the truth but rather they gave us too little details. They gave us some snippets and too many guesses. But still for me there were three members who did a lot of work. Rob delivered loads of lyrics (therefore probably a concept behind the album) and many melodies (but not for the every song!), and some songs are clearly collaboration work (for example SOS, KIDZ <--- and from the documentary we can learn that Rob is responsible for The Kinks rip off ;-)). And it should be mentioned once again Gary did ALL BACKING TRACKS. That's why I can't agree with you that this is almost Robbie album. I see 3 creative forces behind it, not one. And TBH I really don't like the idea that everything is credited to "take that", on every song they should name the exact contributor(s). This is probably my last post on that topic, I feel like I've repeated myself already, sorry for that. :P To be honest from the beginning I just wanted to point out that in TT apart from Gary and Rob there is also Mark who writes a lot but for some reason he is constantly omitted (by people and journalists) when it comes to song-writing and overall input in the band. Most people just can't understand why does he have so many leads on albums especially when he has such a distinctive and not so strong voice. Well the answer is obvious for me, because he writes those tunes. 7heDreamer I know this is Rob's forum so I'm sorry about my rant. In the near future Robbie is going to release a solo album. Everything will be back to a norm and I hope you'll be very satisfied with 100% Robbie stuff :)

But what do they say at the documentaries that you're so sceptical? From what I remember Robbie said he wrote loads of lyrics before they went to studio, so yes this is actually true. He said he wanted to be very well prepared for the sessions. And I don't see anything suspicious and impossible for Gary that he prepared the backing tracks before they went to studio. I don't think they ever said that 5 of them sat down and came up with all music and lyrics within the session time. Moreover in this interview Gary says that some backing tracks he sent (via internet) to Rob and Mark (of course separately ;)) so they clearly worked at home before they went to studio. Gary also said that some of them they wrote as 5 in the studio (maybe using Rob's previously written lyrics). (around 3:30) AH_PnQ6YtvM

Damn My post was written with the acridity towards Gary"the only talented song-writer in TT". It seems you didn't get it probably due to my bad English, sorry for that. I meant since the reunion Mark's been responsible for many songs in TT, lyrics and melodies. On BW album TT members collaborated with other outside writers so it is not easy to tell who did write what song, but still I'm pretty sure Mark sings lead vocals on songs he was largely responsible for. On "The Circus" it's much easier to guess which songs are Gary's and which are Mark's. And the songs I've mentioned before are definitely Mark's (some of them he wrote with Jemie Norton and Ben Mark, his mates from solo years). It may be impossible to believe but Mark can play piano a little bit (not so well like Gary but enough good to write songs with the help of it). And Flowerbed is also Mark's song. I understand that there are many people who doesn't like his voice but nevertheless Mark can pen a good song too. And actually in most cases I prefer his writing than Gary's. I also have to say I don't blame Gary for the common opinion he's the only songwriter. In many interviews he talked about the input from other members, once he even compared Mark to Neil Young (which was very nice but IMO over the top ). People just don't listen to him or don't believe his words (especially journalists). As for Rob, I don't neglect his impact on Progress album, but IMO it isn't fair to say he is responsible nearly for everything. Have you seen a documentary about the making of that album? I didn't get the feeling it's all about Rob, and if I remember correctly Gary prepared the whole background music.

Yeah since the reunion Gary has written all TT stuff... what a deluded person you're 7heDreamer Even from TT's interviews (especially from Gary) you can learn that he doesn't think like that at all. Another hint may be a collaboration with Ben Mark and Jamie Norton ( Mark's old band mates) on some TT's songs (How Did it Come to This, Throwing Stones, Hold Up The Light, Up All Night) . You don't have to be a genius to guess which TT member is responsible for those songs largely. ....And Flowerbed have to be Rob's song... after all he is responsible for the whole "Progress" LP :rolleyes:

Django Reinhardt at 73? He should be in top 20. And Rory Gallagher at 43 is a f****** joke- easily a top 5 on my list! I would place Jeff Beck and Paul Kossoff in top 10 too. Robert Johnson should be much higher in a top 20.