FinalCylon

"Mindful of the Eastern block voting, the Eurovision authorities have reintroduced the national juries, which will count for 50 per cent of the vote." --www.reallyuseful.com. "After the public debate about neighbour and diaspora voting, we decided to give the national juries a say." --www.eurovision.tv, quoting Ruurd Bierman, Chairman of the Eurovision reference group "Other competing nations, including Greece, Turkey and Russia, have benefited from neighbourly votes and those cast by communities living in other European states. Fans of the contest, who have become disgruntled with the voting system, have been calling for a return of the jury vote." --BBC News The diaspora angle is best explained by this less newsworthy source: "We, the fans of the Eurovision Song Contest, are not happy with the, currently, unfair nature of the voting system. We feel that the voting result of, not only the eastern countries, but the western nations as well, are being adversely affected by the number of immigrants in each country. It has become a tradition that Germany will always award Turkey 12 points, this could be interpreted as suspicious as the largest population of immigrants in Germany are from Turkey. The same is happening in all of the Eurovision countries. Ireland has for the last two years given 12 points to Lithuania in the final. This is also highly suspicious because the highest population of immigrants in Ireland are from Poland and the second highest number are from Lithuania..." --oikotimes.com, 2007 The trend of Ireland voting for Lithuania continued in 2009, with Ireland being the only country to give 12 points to Lithuania (in the semi, watered down to 7 points in the final after the jury influence.) Ireland didn't get a chance to vote for Lithuania in 2008. While droves of Turks have moved to Germany and droves of Lithuanians have moved to Ireland, very few Germans have moved to Turkey and very few Irish have moved to Lithuania. When Eurovision officials say they want to reduce the effect of diaspora, they mean they want to take votes away from Eastern countries and give them "back" to Western countries.

It's annoying to have these jury wildcard picks in the semi-finals, because no band that finishes worse than 10th place with the tele-voting in the semi-final is going to have a shot at winning the whole thing (unless maybe there was a performance glitch in the semi-final.) However, the goal of the juries is to increase Western influence. Replacing Macedonia with Finland accomplished that. (Replacing Serbia with Croatia... not so much.)

Jade Ewen is an actress and was a member of an internationally successful band. Alexander Rybak is a wash-out from the semi-finals of Norwegian Idol. The composer of Jade's song is Andrew Lloyd Webber, "the most successful composer of our time." The composer of Rybak's song is a wash-out from the semi-finals of Norwegian Idol. It's sort of like a Ford Fiesta winning a car race, with a Renault 4, Volkswagon Bus, and Yugo coming in second through fourth, and then everyone applauding that the UK's Formula One car finished fifth. The UK did not get a result in line with its monetary/artistic effort. That's not to say the UK did not deserve to be fifth.

There's certainly more of a Western influence. Russia is crushed. Azerbaijan and Turkish uprisings quelled. United Kingdom, France and Denmark much improved. Actually, I sort of liked Denmark, but I mean, it was generic. No way should it surpass Azerbaijan. Block voting seems to be reduced, which was the whole goal of the juries. Sweden and Finland were two big recipients of the Scandinavian vote in the overall contest, and without their blond comrades they would have wound up much like this jury result. However, Denmark improved, so it's hard to interpret. I had forgotten Spain, to tell you the truth, and had to look it up on youtube to get a refresher. I think Spanish music rocks in general, but this entry was just too stereotypical Eurovision, IMO. It was utterly forgettable Europop. So, yeah, I think it deserved to bomb.

Suppose the votes were like so: (Jury)+(SMS)=(Total) 12+12=24 Norway => 12 points to Norway 6+6 = 12 Azerbaijan => 10 points to Azerbaijan 0+10 = 10 Russia => 8 points to Russia 2+8 = 10 Moldova => 7 points to Moldova (10-10 tie broken in favor of SMS votes) ...and so on Doesn't that explain how Russia gets 8 points from Ukraine when the Ukrainian jury gave them 0? Basically, the points from the jury and SMS are added, then this is used just to sort the countries, then the points are assigned 12, 10, 8, 7, etc. Isn't that how it works?

The Ukrainian broadcasting has this afternoon sent a formal complaint on voting in the Eurovision-finals, according to the Russian newspaper Life.ru. The complaint is that the Russians legally cheated at the eight points from Ukraine. The Russian participant Anastasiya Prikhodko had 91 points and ended up in a tenth place in the international sangkonkurransen. Ukraine claim that there was something seriously wrong with the counting of SMS votes. Ga zero points Unlike previous polls, in which all power has been with viewers, it was this year also introduced a jury system. Each country set up with five music yndige people who had to decide as much as the TV viewers. The Ukrainian jury had given the Russian contribution to zero points, according to Vice President Roman Nedzelskiy by state channel 1, the Ukrainian equivalent to NRK. A few minutes before Ukraine should read up their points for the whole of Europe, they were the final results including SMS votes. It showed that Russia had received eight points. Voted for Norway This should not be possible, says Nedzelskiy. Without more detailed knowledge of voting rules, common sense suggests that even if the Ukrainians had the most votes to Russia, should not the total score pot exceed six points. The hanging high twelve points went to Norway, however, and Rybak. - We have just sent an official letter to the international broadcasting organization (EBU), asking someone to explain us how this could happen. Both the Ukrainian jury and the viewers voted for Norway, "says Nedzelskiy to Life.ru and continues: - But on the fly it turned out that Ukraine had eight points to Russia. Did not see the sms-figures The vice president believes that the results are skandaløse and wants an overview of SMS votes that have come into the Ukraine. It is according to him, an external analyst that handles the count of SMS votes. - Had we done this myself, though we had just what voting process takes place, "he comments. On Saturday they got the results a couple of minutes before they were spoken. - I do not know what they are doing over there in Russia. Two minutes before the broadcast, we had this amazing figure from the EBU and to present this information as our own under Points. To be honest, we were all in shock. Not exactly good neighbors This is an example of pure manipulation from Russia's side, according to Nedzelskiy. - Norway is without doubt the sole clear winner, but how did Prikhodko Ukrainian eight points from? The much-talked about nabovennskapen in the way voice is nonexistent when it comes to Russia and Ukraine. - I am very grateful for the two points we got from Russia. Well done, neighbors, "says Nedzelskiy, obviously ironic. - Strange Nor NRK have any good explanation on how this should have gone to. - Now I know not something to this complaint, and the EBU has not yet announced what jury voted for. But what I can say, and that the rules are known, are the points from televotingen, from 12 to 1, counting fifty percent, and the scores from the jury, from 12 to 1, counting fifty percent. Then add these numbers together Monday, and if someone has the same, so it is televotingen that do fall, "says Stian Malmö, project manager for NRK, the Dagbladet.no. - Provided that the Ukrainian jury ga the Russian song 0 points, how can Russia have been 8? - No, it sounds weird out. Dagbladet.no has tonight not succeed to obtain the EBU for further comment. My two favorite parts of the automatic translation are: * "the Russians legally cheated" - if they legally cheated, then where's the problem? :) * skandaløse - it's simply skandaløse.

[citation requested]

Whose performances disappointed you? Turkey. As others said, the woman was shouting in the final, much less so in the semi-final. I think someone told her to put more energy into the final performance, and it backfired. Whose (unexpectedly) impressed you? Azerbaijan improved from the semi-final to the final and really shined. And Iceland was solid in both. Who did you think placed unfairly or surprisingly low? Ukraine did not deserve to get almost no points from Russia (not to mention everybody else.) And who exceeded your expectations on the final leaderboard? Like most, I was surprised that Norway exceeded its hype. I expected it to be #1, not to smash records. And anything else you wanna tell us :P I'm most interested in learning the patterns here so that I won't make stupid bets in the future. One thing that seems to be the case is that block voting extends to the singer's place of birth and actually seems more important than neighborly voting. For example, Russia and Belarus gave 12's to Norway with its Belarussian singer, but they gave only 2 and 6, respectively, to neighbor and former comrade Ukraine. Of course, it's a little debatable, since Norway gathered so many 12's anyway, but personally I think it was a near automatic 12 from Belarus for the Belarussian singer, even if he had been mediocre. Ukraine gave an 8 to Russia and its Ukrainian singer, which, given the weakness of the song, was a lot. The only countries that gave more points to Russia were Estonia and Armenia, both neighbors of Russia. (Well, Georgia is between Armenia and Russia, but close enough.) Another pattern is that although ballads can and do sometimes win Eurovision, they did poorly overall this year. Malta got trashed. UK sort of got trashed, considering the heavy guns they brought to bear to garner only fifth place. I can't remember who the other ballads were... that's how forgettable they were. :) And it seems that those who mostly just stood there (Lithuania, Malta) got trashed, but then again over-the-top performances (Ukraine) did not necessarily do well either. Norway was lively enough, but had no half naked soldiers, half naked girls, or fireworks. If Estonia had been more lively (but not over the top), I think it could have gotten third. I'm wondering if maybe the "amateurish" acts do better in Eurovision. If you compare Norway to UK or France, there's just a different feeling there. I mean, the Norwegian singer, Alexander Rybak, is clearly a professional, but he's so young and lively, not serious, that he comes across with a cute amateurism. It seems like bringing super serious professionals to the contest will lose you a few points here and there. And bringing outrageous professionals (Svetlana Loboda of Ukraine) seems to be even worse. I haven't watched all that many years of Eurovision, though, so maybe you guys can comment more.

Spain was tied for 23rd. There was no 24th place.

Predict the top 10 of the final [60 points available - 5 points for each correct position, 3 points for being one position off, 1 point for being two positions off; extra 10 points if you predict all the members correctly regardless of order] 01 - Norway - 5 02 - Turkey - 1 03 - Ukraine - 0 04 - Iceland - 1 05- Azerbaijan - 1 06 - UK - 3 07 - Moldova - 0 08 - Bosnia & etc. - 1 09 - Estonia - 0 10 - Sweden - 0 --> 12/60 Edit: I accidentally had 11 picks, so I removed the 11th. Bonus Question 1: Where will the 5 autoqualifiers finish? [50 points - 10 points for each correct position, 5 points for being one position off, 3 points for being two positions off, 1 point for being three positions off] France - 14 - 0 Germany - 21 - 5 Russia - 13 - 3 Spain - 15 - 0 UK - 6 - 5 --> 13/50 Bonus Question 2: Which Scandinavian country (Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark) will be the least successful? [10 points for getting it correct, 0 for not!] Denmark --> 0/10 Bonus Question 3: How many votes will be left to be announced when it is mathematically impossible for the winner to be caught? (NB: Does not include the vote that makes it mathematically impossible) [10 points for getting the exact number of votes remaining, 5 points for getting within 1 vote, 3 points for getting within 2 votes, 1 point for getting within 3 votes] 2 --> 0/10 Bonus Question 4: How many points will Azerbaijan score? [10 points for getting the exact amount, 5 points for guessing within 5 points of it, 3 points for guessing within 10 points of it, 1 point for guessing within 20 points of it] 182 --> 0/10 Bonus Question 5: Predict the bottom five positions of the final [60 points available - 5 points for each correct position, 3 points for being one position off, 1 point for being two positions off; extra 10 points if you predict all the members correctly regardless of order] 21 - Germany - 3 22 - Portugal - 0 23 - Denmark - 0 24 - Lithuania - 3 (was tied for 23) 25 - Croatia - 0 --> 6/60 ----> 31/200

Have the results been released for the votes without the juries?

Yes, it happens in the West too, of course. To me, the Scandinavian block vote is most noticeable there, though this year it was masked by two legitimately good Scandinavian entries (Norway and Iceland.)

Well, I'm referring to block voting, of course. The former Yugo republics do it a lot, and Russia benefits from its neighbors' votes too. The topic has been beaten to death here, but while some say it's just due to similar taste in music, I don't think that's the case much of the time. Really awful stuff gets voted up by neighbors. I'm sure you can think of examples. Anyway, if it wasn't a problem, then they wouldn't have come up with these juries. I just didn't think the change would result in Russia giving Ukraine almost no points.

FYI, Ukraine and Russia used to be part of the U.S.S.R. (CCCP). ;)

Well, the juries replaced Serbia with Croatia. The juries are intended to reduce block voting and shift the votes back to the Western countries. Replacing one ex-Yugo country with another hardly accomplished that. (The other semi was more fruitful in that regard.) But certainly replacing Serbia with Croatia resulted in a more dignified, less campy, entry. Perhaps juries will prove to raise the artistic level of the entries and winners.

Russia gave France 10 points and Ukraine just 2 points?! What the frak? Isn't there a rule that if you used to be part of the same country, you have to vote for your former brothers regardless of any present political differences? Russia used a Ukraine singer for its entry, then gave a token 2 points to Ukraine? Isn't Svetlana Loboda popular on Russian music television? What happened here?

Norway beat Azerbaijan by just 21 points in the semi-final. Doesn't this suggest that Norway's landslide victory in the final was due to the juries?

Azerbaijan :wub: :wub: :wub:

19. Albania 9/10 - cute, love those legs, like the Balkan interlude 20. Norway 9.5/10 - I really don't want it to win, but it is pretty good. 21. Ukraine 10/10 - Last year I visited Ukraine and shot video and used Svetlana Loboda for the music. 22. Romania 7.5/10 - I still think this is mediocre at best 23. UK 8.5/10 - I don't think her voice was as good as some others, actually 24. Finland 7.5/10 - forgettable 25. Spain 9/10 - weak vocals, but like the Balkan beat

14. Malta 9/10 - I think she was better this time, you have to give her credit - with vocals alone outshines most others 15. Estonia 9.5/10 - For some reason it really appealed to me this time, much like Dead Can Dance, but needs dancing 16. Denmark 6/10 - He missed a note, and otherwise unremarkable. 17. Germany 8.5/10 - Interesting concept. 18. Turkey 9/10 - Vocals really weak. Backing vocals almost inaudible. I regret placing a bet to win.

10. Russia 5/10 - oh my gods, she tanked. The visuals were painful too. 11. Azerbaijan 9.5/10 - this is the first that really commanded my full attention, stupendous 12. Bosnia 8/10 - just average for the finals IMO

7. Iceland 9.5/10 - shines above the rest so far 8. Greece 5/10 - I hated it even more the second time, pure fluff crud 9. Armenia 7.5/10 - sounds exactly like Dead Can Dance for the first few seconds, weak vocals

1. Lithuania 8/10 - too much like Tears for Fears 2. Israel 7/10 - weak singing 3. France 8.5/10 - a bit boring, but good 4. Sweden 8.5/10 - her deep notes still freak me out 5. Croatia 6/10 - not a good idea to use a voice as a whiny middle easterny instrument 6. Portugal 7/10 - 1970's style performance, looks out of place today

I'm an ex-pat, so I guess I don't count.

It's okay. I'm an American citizen anyway, with Lithuanian residency. About Lithuania's Sasha, I think I feel the same way as most here. I think he qualified only barely and will only rack up a few points. I like the song, but it pales in comparison to the competition. It's an improvement over last year's entry, but still Lithuania doesn't quite "get it" when it comes to picking its entries to Eurovision. Lithuania is a country of singers, so there is hope for the future, but it's a small country, so be patient. Of course, there was the near miss in 2006 with "We are the Winners."