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 Have your politics shifted? |
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 19th October 2022, 10:30 PM
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#21
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,190 User: 7,561 
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Sep 16 2022, 06:07 PM)  Can I ask why on Earth do male and female meteorologists get different pay in the first place?? Sorry Steve, I meant to reply sooner! It's less to do with different pay for the same role, but essentially was part of an archaic government mandated pay progression scheme, which essentially rewards length of service over contribution. This penalises those who take either part-time work due to caring commitments or maternity leave- which disproportionately affects women. Gender pay gap is not just about that but also about the proportion of those in more senior roles and how unbalanced that has become, with shift work (nights etc.) tending to filter out women before they reach the Chief Meteorologist role - I think there has only ever been 2 women working at that level in over 150 years (!) Though we do now have a woman as Chief Exec.- Penny Endersby.. |
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20th October 2022, 09:33 PM
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#22
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 Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,244 User: 5,138
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Ah I see, like most job especially in government then, thanks for the clarification. I mean it’s not like it’s a woman’s fault they are child bearers (mainly) but then a work place has to function so needs a reliable employee, it’s a difficult thing. At least we are in a better position than 30/40 years ago.
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30th December 2022, 04:45 PM
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#23
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,190 User: 7,561
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QUOTE(JulianT @ Sep 18 2022, 06:21 AM) I don’t know if I’m genuinely one of the only right leaning people on here or if, like me, most of the others are too scared to post about politics on here very often. But I’ve made the (not particularly unusual) journey from Lib Dem to libertarian conservative since I hit 30. Like dandy* I think life does tend to turn you from an idealist into a pragmatist, wherever that takes you. Good to have ppl here with differing views - always welcome to this forum! Interesting that both you and Dandy* have made the political journey of becoming more conservative with time. It appears that this traditional link may have been broken since Gen X (see interesting chart from John Burn-Murdoch). I'd be interested in your opinion on why that might be? I have some theories, but it is an interesting development that I've noticed.. |
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30th December 2022, 07:15 PM
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#24
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,216 User: 3,474
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Thats an interesting chart. What’s very interesting is the dip for the Gen X lot before the rise. If my maths is right that’s kinda around the financial crisis. Personally I think the myriad of financial and political crisis and general f***ery the millenials have lived through is having more of an impact. Even against the radicalisation attempts of both Facebook and YouTube/Google
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30th December 2022, 07:20 PM
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#25
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 5,804 User: 214
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I’d say if anything I’ve moved more to the left since I entered voting age. I was always green/labour but as years have passed have become more anti-right
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30th December 2022, 07:25 PM
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#26
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 Mansonette
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 35,428 User: 54
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I think it depends on what you class as "more conservative". For me I'd still never vote conservative but I have come to accept that idealist views can't always be realistically achieved and we need people who can plan moves for how to improve the country in a practical and successful way - and it's really difficult to know what those steps should be as we don't really know what state of f*cked the economy really is in. Plus, through my work, I've realised that people can spend AGES and AGES debating theoretical rights and wrongs but ultimately it's all pointless unless you take actions - so do whatever we can for now that helps move things in the right direction.
The starter things I think people should campaign for is fair representation. The issues around inherent racism in the UK's systems also apply to social class and location, that's something that really could be sorted quite simply if people could stand up to the middle/upper class white folk in power. |
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30th December 2022, 10:54 PM
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#27
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Perfectly Pop
Pronouns: He/Him
Joined: 3 March 2007 Posts: 9,556 User: 3,033
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I just vote more tactically now. That’s it.
There’s no point voting for someone where it’s essentially a wasted vote anymore. |
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31st December 2022, 05:01 AM
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#28
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,244 User: 5,138
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I think I have become more economically left wing but less liberal socially. I just think Gen X focuses too much on social issues which have been won in the past (but still of course need continued re-emphasised today) and just plays into the right wing narratives and let’s them get away with the ‘there is no alternative economics’ BS.
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9th January 2023, 07:16 PM
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#29
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 637 User: 18,962 
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Having read some discussion on this topic today, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Millennials are becoming more conservative, but they are not attracted to the brand of 'conservatism' practiced by the Republican Party and the Conservative Party right now. After all, it's more like reactionary culture war politics than real conservatism. But outside of electoral politics, the average 36 year old is still clearly more conservative than the average 18 year old.
Therefore, the Millennials are behaving normally, and the Republican/Conservative Party are the source of this apparent abnormality. |
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9th January 2023, 09:54 PM
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#30
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,640 User: 124,514
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I come from a largely conservative voting family who idolised Margaret Thatcher - I followed that brainwashing for a while but when I went to university and got a bit more educated I realised that their ideology was based on selfishness. That said, I did used to think that economically the Tories were as good as Labour. I did go through a brief phase in my life in the mid 2010s when I wasn't happy and found the UKIP policies attractive and almost abstained from the Brexit vote. However, something at the last minute made me vote Remain with gritted teeth.
The result of that and the reaction of the Brexiters completely woke me up and I became more left wing - both socially and economically - living in Bristol helped. Now I despise the Tories (and even more the right wing press) for their cruelty, culture wars against minorities (especially their vicious war on trans), the way they don't care at all about the poor and disabled, their corrupt cronyism and disdain for the environment. The result of the 2019 election in particular was the lowest point where I realised how much shit the country was in and what a dark path it had gone down. It is a shame that Starmer isn't the radical change we need but it is a damn sight better than the Tories. As for going more right wing with age - as I equate right wing policies with destruction, cruelty and selfishness then I absolutely hope not. My parents are even more into it now - watching GB news religiously - we never talk about politics and we actually get on, for the most part, fine. But it does seem that they are getting brainwashed. Anyway, on a positive note, I do find when you hang around with kind people who look out for others including minorities life is a lot lot happier! |
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9th January 2023, 11:37 PM
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#31
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,166 User: 22,895 
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QUOTE(ta-ra*el~la @ Jan 9 2023, 07:16 PM) Having read some discussion on this topic today, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Millennials are becoming more conservative, but they are not attracted to the brand of 'conservatism' practiced by the Republican Party and the Conservative Party right now. After all, it's more like reactionary culture war politics than real conservatism. But outside of electoral politics, the average 36 year old is still clearly more conservative than the average 18 year old. Therefore, the Millennials are behaving normally, and the Republican/Conservative Party are the source of this apparent abnormality. You might have a point. I think in some ways I am more small c conservative than I once was, but I would NEVER vote for the Tories or the Replublican party in America. Those are crazy people with ridiculous ideas. |
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10th January 2023, 01:36 AM
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#32
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Let's Go Brandon
Joined: 6 April 2006
Posts: 22,648 User: 421
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Yes. Went from left wing to right wing the past few years.
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10th January 2023, 05:04 AM
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#33
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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QUOTE(ta-ra*el~la @ Jan 9 2023, 07:16 PM) Having read some discussion on this topic today, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Millennials are becoming more conservative, but they are not attracted to the brand of 'conservatism' practiced by the Republican Party and the Conservative Party right now. After all, it's more like reactionary culture war politics than real conservatism. But outside of electoral politics, the average 36 year old is still clearly more conservative than the average 18 year old. Therefore, the Millennials are behaving normally, and the Republican/Conservative Party are the source of this apparent abnormality. Depends where you are. 30-year olds in Britain today are more left-wing than any generation at their age before in recent history. Which is predicated on 'real conservatism' still being something one looks towards when one gets asset-rich, the main point being that British people in their thirties aren't getting asset-rich. No chance of them becoming conservative there; the Tories will eventually swing back to that platform and find little from it. I think it's slightly less the case in America but they also have a more friendly institution to populist left politics which are demonised far worse than culture wars somehow in British media. QUOTE(Sempachorra @ Jan 10 2023, 01:36 AM) Yes. Went from left wing to right wing the past few years. Why? Economic factors? Though the debates I've had with you in the past indicate otherwise. |
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10th January 2023, 05:55 AM
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#34
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 637 User: 18,962
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QUOTE(Iz �� @ Jan 10 2023, 05:04 AM) Depends where you are. 30-year olds in Britain today are more left-wing than any generation at their age before in recent history. Which is predicated on 'real conservatism' still being something one looks towards when one gets asset-rich, the main point being that British people in their thirties aren't getting asset-rich. No chance of them becoming conservative there; the Tories will eventually swing back to that platform and find little from it. I think it's slightly less the case in America but they also have a more friendly institution to populist left politics which are demonised far worse than culture wars somehow in British media. Why? Economic factors? Though the debates I've had with you in the past indicate otherwise. As I see it, many 30-somethings are economically left leaning (due to being poor), but they increasingly dislike the cultural politics that is popular on university campuses, and find Gen-Z activism alien. Many also report being more small-c conservative in many ways. However, they also don't like the anti-climate, anti-LGBT culture warriors on the Right. This, plus the economic stuff, means they won't be voting conservative anytime soon. I've come across many people who are saying things like 'if the left dropped the cultural stuff they would become more popular'. I suspect this is true. I mean, Bernie almost won on that formula, after all. I mean, the left should still push back against right-wing culture politics, but they shouldn't start culture wars of their own. This post has been edited by ta-ra*el~la: 10th January 2023, 06:02 AM |
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10th January 2023, 06:54 AM
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#35
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,166 User: 22,895
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I wonder about that. If I had to describe it I'd say that some millennials now trend towards passivity whereas gen Z tend to have a bit more fight in them. In America this is turned up to 11 because for whatever reason people seem to do everything what I perceive as more intensely there.
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11th January 2023, 12:11 AM
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#36
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,190 User: 7,561
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There is definitely a lot of anger and increasing levels of animosity out there- we see that being exploited and used to generate revenue on social media.
I think (and I am only really speaking for myself here) that there is an element of nihilism in Millennials now, and maybe partly in Gen Z too? When you think about what has happened since many of us entered the jobs market in 2008, e.g. a near continuous decline in living standards/public services and stagnation in wages as well as worsening wealth inequality and job security, endless corruption and injustice that goes unpunished, and disenfranchisement from near continuous defeats of progressive politics, then it's really not that surprising. Everything is getting worse over time, and every voice or movement that tries to change things for the better is comprehensively defeated and destroyed. So, what's the point? |
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12th January 2023, 07:56 AM
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#37
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BuzzJack Legend
Pronouns: He/Him
Joined: 18 March 2013 Posts: 34,944 User: 18,473
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 11 2023, 12:11 AM) There is definitely a lot of anger and increasing levels of animosity out there- we see that being exploited and used to generate revenue on social media. I think (and I am only really speaking for myself here) that there is an element of nihilism in Millennials now, and maybe partly in Gen Z too? When you think about what has happened since many of us entered the jobs market in 2008, e.g. a near continuous decline in living standards/public services and stagnation in wages as well as worsening wealth inequality and job security, endless corruption and injustice that goes unpunished, and disenfranchisement from near continuous defeats of progressive politics, then it's really not that surprising. Everything is getting worse over time, and every voice or movement that tries to change things for the better is comprehensively defeated and destroyed. So, what's the point? I agree with you here. I think in my experience, especially post COVID, I feel like I'm living day to day sort of in a world of my own. I'm fed up with everything just going to shit all the time. The biggest reason for this in my opinion is a government that has made successive mistakes since 2008. I can't speak for everyone but I get the feeling that the majority just aren't feeling anything anymore. Maybe this was the plan from the right all along, make everyone nihilistic. If that happens then what's the worst that can happen with them? Everyone is just fed up and the new status quo seems to be shit people get away with everything so why bother caring? |
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12th January 2023, 08:29 AM
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#38
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,374 User: 23,471
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I can only really mimic the experiences a lot of people in this thread have had — I was fairly passive as a teen and would have probably called myself a liberal. I shifted more to the left as the years went by after I became more engaged with the news and politics online. This all led to unexpected passion and volunteering in person (not something I see myself doing again, unfortunately).
I thought perhaps I would tilt a little back to the centre with age and money but that hasn't happened. It's really difficult not to look at the world and see the continued failures of capitalism and neoliberalism. The saddest thing, as mentioned above by others, is I can feel myself not caring and just accepting that this is the way it's going to be. I am becoming less engaged because it's just total despair otherwise — there is barely any hope in politics right now. |
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31st May 2023, 06:27 PM
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#39
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Jacob Alan~
Joined: 12 March 2015
Posts: 4,987 User: 21,664
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Slowly drifted left as everything has become worse. I've only ever voted Lib Dem in general elections (partly because of the constituencies I was in for 2015, 2017 and 2019), I'll probably vote Labour now because I'm in a Labour held constituency now and I will vote for whoever I need to to get rid of the
Almost more or at least equally importantly, I'm strongly in favour of PR because I want people to be able to vote for what they want to, not for the least bad option. I'm sure people are aware of how awful FPTP is already but I feel there needs to be a stronger push for change. We already do this for some local elections, sometimes- it's quite easy, you just write 1, 2, 3 etc then presumably once all the 1s are counted, the top 2 or 3 "1s" stay and the "2s" from the losing "1s" get added to the remaining candidates. As one example of how PR would work. Several people in this thread said they'd like to vote Green but wouldn't because it would feel like a wasted vote. I get emails from and follow this organisation and have done since 2019: https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/   Eliminate the idea of safe seats and wasted votes. It's not impossible, not saying that it's easy but it's not the most unlikely scenario in the world for there to be a hung parliament with Labour as the largest party and Lib Dems agreeing to a coalition on the condition that PR is implemented. As for my personal views, I've gone from economically centre left and socially centre right in my late teens to economically socialist and socially centre-left/ apathetic. While I appreciate there are some complexities I'm glossing over*, the reason I say apathetic is economics (certainly right now) is what people really care about as a whole, culture wars are just conservatives desperately trying to avoid talking about how they just want the rich to get richer, which doesn't really resonate with the 99%. Focus on the economy, improvements to public services and general living standards will also improve things socially. *Of course it's always important to uphold and defend rights that have been won, but the right (the donors and politicians broadly speaking I mean) don't actually care about immigration, LGBT rights or "wokeism" one way or the other, they just know that they can use those issues to hide the fact they want to screw over not just the working class, but anyone outside their inner circle of obscene wealth, or those benefitting from that wealth by acting in those interests. Oh and always remember:   It's quite affirming to know reality is on your side. |
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31st May 2023, 07:35 PM
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#40
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Cœur poids plume
Joined: 3 November 2007
Posts: 18,150 User: 4,718
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I am a full-time Keith hater now x
(I still want to see the Tories lose which is a dilemma) |
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