  |
 UK General Election 2024 |
| Track this thread | Email this thread | Print this thread | Download this thread | Subscribe to this forum |
 8th May 2024, 03:00 PM
Post
#41
|
|
 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,663 User: 88 
       |
QUOTE(DoBelieveTheHype @ 8th May 2024, 03:33 PM)  The centre ground does indeed win in politics. You're correct. All the more reason not accept right-wingers like Elphick into the Labour party fold. I think they have accepted her purely on symbolism and she’s standing down at the next election if I’m correct? I’m not a huge fan of accepting deflections full stop, but the last two have been really symbolic. I’m not a fan of it myself, but I can understand from a strategic point of view why this decision was made. The positives outweighs the negatives imo in short termism to get elected. |
 |
 
|
|
8th May 2024, 09:38 PM
Post
#42
|
|
 Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,449 User: 5,138
  |
So Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott have been suspended from the party but Natalie Elphicke is invited in like an old friend - f*** right off Starmer!
|
|
|
|
|
8th May 2024, 09:44 PM
Post
#43
|
|
|
BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,706 User: 124,514
 |
They apparently gave the whip back to Kate Osamor from the left of the party purely to calm some of the disquiet in Labour ranks. But Abbot and Corbyn are apparently just too toxic - despite Starmer being in the same Shadow Cabinet as recently as 2019.
|
|
|
|
|
8th May 2024, 10:16 PM
Post
#44
|
|
|
Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,449 User: 5,138
|
I hate the course he’s taking, I would nearly rather a Tory government than this fake BS Starmer is providing. The quote from Malcolm X about Liberals and the fox springs to mind. The fox will smile at you and act like your friend a bit like liberals!
|
|
|
|
|
8th May 2024, 11:37 PM
Post
#45
|
|
|
WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,663 User: 88
|
Well if anything it's royally upset Owen Jones, so that's a positive.
|
|
|
|
|
8th May 2024, 11:52 PM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,542 User: 18,639
       |
Owen Jones is a strong socialidt voice. Upsetting him is NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF!!
|
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 08:56 AM
Post
#47
|
|
|
BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,706 User: 124,514
|
Indeed, Owen is a legend, one of the very few mainstream journalists who dares to speak out on so many issues - Palestine, transphobia, poverty, racism. Of course a lot of people hate him - that's what you get in mainstream capitalist society for challenging the status quo.
|
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 09:58 AM
Post
#48
|
|
|
BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 6 December 2023
Posts: 911 User: 173,568
|
QUOTE(SemiDongContest @ 9th May 2024, 12:52 AM) Owen Jones is a strong socialidt voice. Upsetting him is NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF!! Oh no. Not a fan at all. I think always when this guy is representing a cause its usually doomed to failure, he's such a bad advocate for it and off-putting to most people. The Palestine issue is a big example it's such an obvious issue, there's a hugely well backed country clearly doing whatever they want, breaking any laws, committing war crimes it should be obvious this is not something anyone should be supporting in this manner but then almost all the big voices for the cause are usually sketchy people and it can create this situation where the average Joe goes against them |
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 11:09 AM
Post
#49
|
|
|
WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,663 User: 88
|
QUOTE(Smint @ 9th May 2024, 09:56 AM) Indeed, Owen is a legend, one of the very few mainstream journalists who dares to speak out on so many issues - Palestine, transphobia, poverty, racism. Of course a lot of people hate him - that's what you get in mainstream capitalist society for challenging the status quo. He’s almost 40 and acts like a child. He’s in the pocket of influential people too. Snipes away from the backbones of his columns and cries when someone challenges him. Isn’t he telling everyone to vote for the Greens now anyway who don’t even know who is repeating their party and what views they all hold. Abbot should be reinstated back to the Party, but isn’t it well documented she hasn’t apologised or done the required training course? All seems very stubborn to me. But of course this part is never peddled from her allies and staunch supporters! |
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 01:27 PM
Post
#50
|
|
|
BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,706 User: 124,514
|
He walked off a show once when he was upset over the LGBT massacre in Orlando and he thought that they were dismissing the hate crime angle several years ago but don't recall him "crying" ever. He argues forcefully and yes writes a newspaper column where he makes commentary like most other political journalists. There are so, so few mainstream journalists who even go half the way he does on several progressive, human rights issues. Which influential people is he in the pockets of?
|
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 04:12 PM
Post
#51
|
|
|
WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,663 User: 88
|
QUOTE(Smint @ 9th May 2024, 02:27 PM) He walked off a show once when he was upset over the LGBT massacre in Orlando and he thought that they were dismissing the hate crime angle several years ago but don't recall him "crying" ever. He argues forcefully and yes writes a newspaper column where he makes commentary like most other political journalists. There are so, so few mainstream journalists who even go half the way he does on several progressive, human rights issues. Which influential people is he in the pockets of? He's blocked half of Twitter. I’ve no problem with any political commentator commenting on anything, but Owen Jones is right on every single issue. He always supports David vs Goliath on every single issue irrespective of who is right and wrong to presented as a hero. I sometimes think that he sees himself as Jesus. Must be amazing to be right on every single issue and never wrong! I genuinely think he’d rather the Tories would stay in power. He’s in the pockets of the same people who powered the Corbyn machine. Just like the likes of Matt Zarb-Cousin etc. are too. Always complaining, never happy, never their fault on anything. |
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 05:54 PM
Post
#52
|
|
|
Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,542 User: 18,639
|
QUOTE(Rooney @ 9th May 2024, 05:12 PM) He's blocked half of Twitter. I’ve no problem with any political commentator commenting on anything, but Owen Jones is right on every single issue. He always supports David vs Goliath on every single issue irrespective of who is right and wrong to presented as a hero. I sometimes think that he sees himself as Jesus. Must be amazing to be right on every single issue and never wrong! I genuinely think he’d rather the Tories would stay in power. He’s in the pockets of the same people who powered the Corbyn machine. Just like the likes of Matt Zarb-Cousin etc. are too. Always complaining, never happy, never their fault on anything. Momentum is a great movement, and simply aims to shift the Overton window back so that we can ACTUALLY HAVE A DEMOCRACY AGAIN!! Plus, it advocates for the people and is run by the people; it's basically a textbook example of a REAL grassroots movement. Owens is one of the best journalists around, a true voice of solidarity and socialism. I couldn't give two shets if he blocks loudmouthed far righters on Twitter to protect both his message and his mental health. And childish? Because he doesn't wear suits and act like he's an alpha and better than everyone else? Mkay |
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 06:40 PM
Post
#53
|
|
 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,554 User: 12,929              |
The Elphicke defection is the first one of these to raise my eyebrows - a nepotistic MP parachuted in after her husband's conviction sexual assault, who's been rubbishing protesters and is clearly a right-wing stooge that embodies the feeling of 'it does actually matter how Labour wins, and winning by slapping red paint on former Conservatives is not the change the country needs, because it ends up being the same shit'.
I am seeing and potentially agreeing with a few interpretations of this acceptance as a way to make Labour a natural party of government, give the voters who have been constantly lost to shit grifter parties like UKIP, Brexit and Reform a chance to vote Labour, get them pleased with a few relatively agreeable things that Labour does like improve housing and the economy and now they're Labour voters pleased with something that a left-wing party has done for them, meaning Labour is more likely to be returned as the government in the future. Accepting someone who has been pandering to that wing is a first step. Of course all of the above is a bit insulting while principled Labour advocates for years like Abbott and Corbyn remain outside the party, people who were activists for Labour recently defecting to the Greens and the above explanation does stink a bit too much of 'hold off your criticism, Sir Starmer has a masterful gambit you need to wait for him to unleash', but I do have to assume that Starmer didn't just accept a morally dubious MP on a whim. (I also agree with Owen Jones on much, though he does have a flaw of being a little preachy) |
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 07:04 PM
Post
#54
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
Posts: 8,640 User: 10,030
 |
Whilst I can see why the move was disagreeable, I think it was actually the perfect move from Labour. In one way it's refreshing to see Labour play the political game well for once.
Iz sums it up nicely above. Elphicke should not be anywhere near a seat in the next election (although I believe they're standing down anyway), but the defection will likely have more of a positive effect for labour and a negative one for the conservatives. I realise things could go the wrong way once the actual election campaign starts, but it seems to me that Labour under Keir Starmer is steadily navigating the political mess of the conservative government - allowing them to drown themselves whilst avoid being dragged under by it too. This post has been edited by Envoirment: 9th May 2024, 07:05 PM |
|
|
|
|
9th May 2024, 07:20 PM
Post
#55
|
|
|
WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,663 User: 88
|
QUOTE(SemiDongContest @ 9th May 2024, 06:54 PM) Momentum is a great movement, and simply aims to shift the Overton window back so that we can ACTUALLY HAVE A DEMOCRACY AGAIN!! Plus, it advocates for the people and is run by the people; it's basically a textbook example of a REAL grassroots movement. Owens is one of the best journalists around, a true voice of solidarity and socialism. I couldn't give two shets if he blocks loudmouthed far righters on Twitter to protect both his message and his mental health. And childish? Because he doesn't wear suits and act like he's an alpha and better than everyone else? Mkay Momentum had some good ideas, but was deeply flawed. But the group let in a lot of people with extreme views, anti-semities etc. and did not know how to deal with the situation due to the lack of governance. Imagine where we'd be today if Long-Bailey got the nomination - highly likely another 5 years of the Tories incoming! I think a large part of the issues is groups like Momentum were so attached to ideological purity and would rather sulk and be challengers than win and be challenged. Owen Jones is not childish because he does not wear a suit. He has an incredibly high opinion of himself and he is always right (when he is not always righ..t). I actually agree with some of his views and some of his work is really good, but he throws his toys out of the pram, can never admit to being wrong and not sure he actually has any ideas for how to solve the problems that are practical and is purely driven by ideology. I just think he needs to grow up. Anyway, in the event Labour do not win at the election, the irony will not be lost on me that the "evil Centrists" will now be able to blame the "evil far Left"! 
|
|
|
|
|
10th May 2024, 05:59 PM
Post
#56
|
|
|
Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,542 User: 18,639
|
A literal article on Sky about how Labour is insisting there is "no place for Farage in the party"!!! It's bad when people are ssying the party's so right wing now that even Farage could get in.
|
|
|
|
|
10th May 2024, 08:13 PM
Post
#57
|
|
|
Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,449 User: 5,138
|
QUOTE(Rooney @ 9th May 2024, 05:12 PM) He's blocked half of Twitter. I’ve no problem with any political commentator commenting on anything, but Owen Jones is right on every single issue. He always supports David vs Goliath on every single issue irrespective of who is right and wrong to presented as a hero. I sometimes think that he sees himself as Jesus. Must be amazing to be right on every single issue and never wrong! I genuinely think he’d rather the Tories would stay in power. He’s in the pockets of the same people who powered the Corbyn machine. Just like the likes of Matt Zarb-Cousin etc. are too. Always complaining, never happy, never their fault on anything. So again who is he in the pockets of them? |
|
|
|
|
10th May 2024, 09:19 PM
Post
#58
|
|
 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,772 User: 3,272
  |
Owen Jones demonstrates what is so wrong with the left of the Labour Party. He gives the impression that he would prefer opposition to a Labour government that he can only agree with 50% of the time. He claims to support people on a low income, but by refusing to support a Labour party that agrees with him on everything, he is doing exactly the opposite.
|
|
|
|
|
10th May 2024, 09:35 PM
Post
#59
|
|
|
WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,663 User: 88
|
QUOTE(Steve201 @ 10th May 2024, 09:13 PM) So again who is he in the pockets of them? That whole Novara group. I'm not suggesting Owen Jones takes back handers, but he's very clearly influenced by that group through donations. |
|
|
|
|
10th May 2024, 09:52 PM
Post
#60
|
|
|
Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,449 User: 5,138
|
QUOTE(Rooney @ 10th May 2024, 10:35 PM) That whole Novara group. I'm not suggesting Owen Jones takes back handers, but he's very clearly influenced by that group through donations. yous think they were the Murdochs the way your talking. Pretty sure he’s happy to agree with them considering they are the modern face of the Bennite left!
|
|
|
|
|
| Time is now: 29th May 2024, 05:33 PM |
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 BuzzJack.com
About | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
