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Churchill Statue Discourse, would you rather be speaking German?

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Rooney View member profile	16th March 2021, 04:56 PM Post #61
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,671 User: 88	Pol Pot got away with what he did with UN turning a blind eye! And is only fairly recently as well. I've been to the Killing Fields and it's absolutely sobering.


Suedehead2 View member profile	16th March 2021, 05:20 PM Post #62
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,776 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Rooney @ Mar 16 2021, 04:56 PM) Pol Pot got away with what he did with UN turning a blind eye! And is only fairly recently as well. I've been to the Killing Fields and it's absolutely sobering. I've been there too and it is a truly chilling experience. I remember reading about Pol Pot when his regime was toppled and being horrified that a genocide on that scale had happened in my lifetime and with the Holocaust well within living memory.


Steve201 View member profile	16th March 2021, 05:54 PM Post #63
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,465 User: 5,138	In conclusion humans suck!


TheSnake View member profile	16th March 2021, 09:43 PM Post #64
Say that hiss with your chest, and... Joined: 24 May 2016 Posts: 18,581 User: 23,308	QUOTE(T Boy @ Mar 16 2021, 11:48 AM) Shouldn’t the discussion really be why people think statues need more protection than living women? I agree with the police protecting the statue a few days though. If the statue had been damaged or vandalised, the far right would come out in force and cause even more problems with breaking covid restrictions, probably without masks as many far right are anti maskers too, and also there would have been more violence. This post has been edited by The. Snake.: 16th March 2021, 09:44 PM


Chez Wombat View member profile	16th March 2021, 11:05 PM Post #65
The owls are not what they seem Pronouns: He/him Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,260 User: 9,232	QUOTE(Iz �� @ Mar 16 2021, 12:04 PM) I wanted to return to this point because I don't know, I think he does. This article has stuck in my mind ever since I read it last year: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocr...1Z8MBEiuSX6uYoI In summary, Churchill and the attitudes and values of his type of Britishness, the stiff upper lip, the never say die, the British exceptionalism, that he has come to represent, are the same values that are almost always presented by the contemporary incarnation of the Tory Party. That drags large numbers of the population to vote for them, even those who do not stand to gain from them being in government. Which is a majority of the country. Going against these values is asking to be crucified by the press. So when I ask for the ability to critique Churchill, I am also asking for the ability to imagine a British society that is not so dominated by the exceptionalism and nationalism that many of us rightly find embarassing and outdated. Basically, keeping his statue up is a cultural signifier that British conservative culture is here to stay. Which stands in opposition to the protests of rightful causes now and last summer. I mean yes, I understand symbolically why it might raise attention or strike at the heart of what is wrong with the establishment. I still maintain though, damaging it achieves nothing. It will simply further the divisions we need to repair and anger a sizeable part of the media/population and raise a discussion that has no point...it's not like it's ever gonna get removed any time soon as he is still widely thought of and even if it is, so what? That's a drop in the ocean compared to the real changes that need to happen. Maybe I'm living in a fairy tale land here, but I still think at this time, we need to have a constructive discourse about what can be done to protect women, stop racism and lessen the sometimes damaging patriotism in education of our past. Maybe we can consider if it's needed when we're in a better and less divided place as a society, but as it stands, it is ultimately a literal piece of stone in this wider debate. On another note, I do feel that 100 Greatest Britons poll that he won that people often cite is very outdated anyway, I reckon if another one is ran, he wouldn't do as well.