THE most fundamental question that involves everyone on earth is 'what is life all about'... now religion in its many forms claims to know the answer.

 

contrary to popular perception, i personally am not 'anti religion' per se, im just against or have rejected everything ive heard about it ..... so far.

 

the universe doesnt work on faith, life doesnt work on faith, everything in the universe from galaxies to atoms behave in accordance to the laws of nature, physical, carnal, consistent laws that drive everything. science is busy trying to understand and discover these laws, to measure and quantify every new discovery.

 

what id like is someone with a religion to explain to me in logical terms i can understand, just how their religious doctrine can be explained in these terms. you see, i WANT abit of heaven, eternal happiness?...yes please! but i cannot accept 'blind faith' or the nebulous, often contradictory, historical writings in a holy book. surely if you have found the pot of gold, the answer to lifes mysteries, then its your duty to spread the word is it not?

 

i believe that IF it exists, then it can either be discovered or predicted in the universe, there must be a theory based on logic that predicts the possibility of 'heaven'.

 

one thing i am pretty certain of, there are far more things going on in the universe then we can understand, quantum physics gives a hint of this as does the string theory.

In my opinion? Simply (in three words); Religion is evil.

 

But like you said, a religious point of view is more needed for this thread..

Religion is a load of bollocks. Millions and millions follow all these traditions based on no actual fact or evidence, people actually believe impossible $h!t, like walking on water actually happened, honestly there are so many deluded losers on this planet its f***ing stupid, i accept people have their own belifs, if they want to buy into the bull$h!t they can, but i dont buy into bull$h!t.And the stupidest thing is how seriously they take it, honestly, people have gone to war because of religion, or killed many people saying their prophet or lord told them to do it (if your lord is so great why are telling you to take lives idiot <_<) and people go as far as protesting a film jsut because of its title, loads of people tried boycotting 'Dogma' just because of the name, yet its a film with a f***ing poop monster in it, where as they all lined up to see jesus get beat to $h!t in 'The Passion of Christ' of course i stole this last bit from Kevin Smtih, but its still valid.

 

 

I accept that religion DOES have some benefits; it's a comfort and a safety blanket for many people. I also accept that there IS a possibility that something is out there; what that is though we will never know.

 

However, I do think religion is and has always been mankind's biggest weakness. The vast majority of conflicts and wars in the world have religious differences at their root. And so religion is indirectly the cause of the destruction and suffering of billions of lives - just as many, if not more, lives that it helps.

It's also behind some of the most outdated prejudices known to society. Religion does not develop or "advance" at the same rate as society.

 

It's also faintly ridiculous that even in "developed" parts of the world, people are still flocking in their droves to mindlessly follow the words of some stories written down in various scriptures, and automatically take it as absolute gospel. People don't do that with anything else, WHY religion.

And what many otherwise-intelligent people choose to ignore is that most of the scriptures they follow like sheep were written by MAN not God or Allah or whoever. And given most religions teach that man is flawed, does it not follow that these scriptures are also....?

Dawkins makes an interesting connection between religion and insecurity.

 

When someone is great, skilled, talented, or extraordinary, people say he is "blessed" or "God gave him his talents" just because they can't accept the fact that someone is better than them. So they just got lucky, "God" just happened to provide it.

 

Every hospital and clinic in the developed world has at least 1, if not a whole fleet of MRI machines. We just take it for granted. Do ya know how an MRI machine works? every atom in the body has protons rotating around a nucleus, but when exposed to a magnetic field, all the protons stop rotating and align in the direction of the field.

An MRI machine exposes the body to a strong magnetic field, which causes protons in every atom to align. Then, the magnet turns off and the protons begin to rotate again. MRI's capture an image of how quickly the protons move back into rotation. Tumors, non-human cells, return to the rotation at a different speed as the rest of our bodies, so bingo, the image captures cancer or tumors in an instant.

 

IT'S FUKKING BRILLIANT!!! It's a testament to how extraordinary humans are, how far we've managed to go. We are an incredibly intelligent species... look what we can do in an ordinary hospital. We did it without divine intervention, we did it without God, we don't need a god.

Edited October 1, 200915 yr by Consie

much though i agree with the 'anti' sentiments here, i would like comments from 'pro' religious people to PLEASE tell me where i ... we.... are going wrong, why we cannot see what they can the only proviso is that they can explain it logically without refering to blind faith or a historic textbook..

and people go as far as protesting a film jsut because of its title, loads of people tried boycotting 'Dogma' just because of the name, yet its a film with a f***ing poop monster in it, where as they all lined up to see jesus get beat to $h!t in 'The Passion of Christ' of course i stole this last bit from Kevin Smtih, but its still valid.

 

:lol: :lol:

 

Or indeed look at what's happened with the sober and very even-handed Brit drama "Creation", a dramatization about the life of Charles Darwin..... Yes, the sheep will flock to watch their bit of religious, and borderline Anti-Semitic, "Torture Porn" made by an alcoholic racist Catholic Supremacist, and then go nuts over a film about Darwin.... Idiots..... :rolleyes:

 

Religion doesn't "enlighten" at all, well certainly Christianity and Islam dont, it's all "fire and brimstone", "allah is great" and "god moves in mysterious ways", er why is allah great, exactly? Why does God move in mysterious ways....? Bhuddism probably is a lot more about seeking enlightenment and inner-self, and of course when you compare the Dalai Llama to the Pope or the Ayatollah in what they're actually saying, MY, what an absolutely STARK contrast..... :rolleyes: I've certainly got more time for the Dalai Llama than I would any other religious leader... For that reason, I probably think the only religion I even could contemplate following would be Bhuddism...

 

But, in reality, I think that we are pretty much alone in this life, we have to think things out for ourselves, there IS no "intervention" coming from a Higher Power, and God isn't on anyone's side in a human conflict.... If there ever was a God, then, frankly, it left us to it a long time ago.....

 

If there ever was a God, then, frankly, it left us to it a long time ago.....

 

yes he did, which is why we NEED jesus to redeam us for our sins... <_<

 

PLEASE tell me how this works in reality....

 

 

someone

 

 

i dont want to spend eternity in hell and damnation if theres a way out...

i dont want to spend eternity in hell and damnation if theres a way out...

 

Bloody hell Rob... Where's this rubbish coming from....? Sounds to me like you're almost falling for the scare tactics of Judeo/Christianity here.... There IS NO HELL..... That's complete and utter bullsh!t..... A fairy tale told to frighten and control us.... "Satan" or "the Devil", or whatever, is just (very loosely) based upon the Greek myth of Hades, the ruler of the "underworld".... Christ, The Bible aint even all that original, truth be told...... :lol: :lol:

 

This is what I dont understand about "religion"... I mean, come on... First it's Polytheism (Roman, Egyptian, Pagan, Norse and Greek gods) for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, then it's Monotheism.... So, who's actually correct....? Of course Hinduism is also Polytheist (Vishnu, Kali, Brahma, Shiva, Ganesha, Krishna etc, etc, etc....). You know, who's to actually say that the ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Pagans or Norse are any less right or wrong than Christians or Muslims....?

 

All sounds a bit vague to me, and certainly not something I think we should really be allowing to control our lives....

 

Bloody hell Rob... Where's this rubbish coming from....? Sounds to me like you're almost falling for the scare tactics of Judeo/Christianity here.... There IS NO HELL..... That's complete and utter bullsh!t..... A fairy tale told to frighten and control us.... "Satan" or "the Devil", or whatever, is just (very loosely) based upon the Greek myth of Hades, the ruler of the "underworld".... Christ, The Bible aint even all that original, truth be told...... :lol: :lol:

 

This is what I dont understand about "religion"... I mean, come on... First it's Polytheism (Roman, Egyptian, Pagan, Norse and Greek gods) for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, then it's Monotheism.... So, who's actually correct....? Of course Hinduism is also Polytheist (Vishnu, Kali, Brahma, Shiva, Ganesha, Krishna etc, etc, etc....). You know, who's to actually say that the ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Pagans or Norse are any less right or wrong than Christians or Muslims....?

 

All sounds a bit vague to me, and certainly not something I think we should really be allowing to control our lives....

 

im trying to look at it from a religious persons perspective, you know full well that atm i dont believe in hell, im offering believers a chance here to explain to me exactly how it works, just to see if im missing something..

This comes more across like an Athiests Support Group thread than an unbias discussion thread about religion LOL.

 

There is more than enough proof that Christianity is based on realistic spirituality. Of course there won't be physical evidence of heaven and hell because your body doesn't go there, your spirit does. So it obviously doesn't physically occur, it does spiritually. If you have any sense of spirituality and open-mindedness you'll be able to believe and pick up religious concepts easier.

 

One of my closest friends was full-on Athiest and was constantly on my case joking about God etc, he then wanted to prove how wrong I am by finding fault with the Bible through reading it. And as he read it, God talked to him there and then. Full-on Athiest converted in a matter of minutes.

 

I think why people find religion a joke is because there are so many variations of it, except they all derive from the concept of God, just adjusted in different ways based on what certain cultures and their ancestors physically came across and from there built a concept upon. There is no proof that Christianity and the Bible is one big lie, and why would it be, after so many years, through so many people. What would we all get out of it for lying, when that's exactly what we are against? We might as well be Athiests then and just live and die and not give a $h!t. Religion is not a hobby, it's a choice.

Christians choose to believe in their religion because it's a way of letting go of all the wrong-doings we do everyday and a way of finding our own special purpose in life, appreciating what was given to us and what can be given to us.

And on the other hand you can choose to disagree with all of that and live your life contemplating spirituality and bashing religion the rest of your life as an Athiest. That really is the bottom line IMO. It is actually hopeless to even discuss religion, especially over the internet because religion comes down to a spiritual choice which obviously difficult to convey to those with their own stubborn opinions and completely non-existant spirituality. It's just going to round and round in circles, like it has for the last 2000+ years.

I am sorry but religion is an outdated method of social control. A set of (admittedly usually good) rules that show advanced ethics and morality but a set of rules none the less that pray on man's weakness to understand that we are basically alone in this universe. It takes responsibility away from the individual and places it in the hands of an outside agency.

 

I truly believe that religion is responsible for more intolerance, bigotry and hatred than any other construct dreamt up by humans anywhere. And don't give me that "but look at all the good that religion does" because all the evil that man has done in the name of religion far outweighs that.

Edited October 3, 200915 yr by grebo69

There is no proof that Christianity and the Bible is one big lie,

 

No proof that it's the truth either..... It's total conjecture.... You'd MAY AS WELL believe in Zeus, Apollo, Ra, Bast, Gaia, Odin or Herne the Hunter.... Why exactly do we consider Greek, Roman, Egyptian deities as being the MYTHS, and accept this "God" as being the truth....? Why is Homer's 'Odyssey' considered myth or legend, and the Bible or the Koran considered "truth", why is Scientology considered as being a Fringe religion, and Catholicism or Islam considered mainstream....? It's totally and completely fukkin' arbitrary and quite clearly subject to change every few millenia or so.... In a couple of thousand years time our descendants will probably all be worshipping The Great Mystical Kangaroo or something equally ridiculous..... :rolleyes:

 

I am sorry but religion is an outdated method of social control. A set of (admittedly usually good) rules that show advanced ethics and morality but a set of rules none the less that pray on man's weakness to understand that we are basically alone in this universe. It takes responsibility away from the individual and places it in the hands of an outside agency.

 

Spot on Grebo... Really, The Age of Enlightenment and the ending of rule by a Feudal Monarchy should also have seen the end of "God" as well, the Monarch's "divine right" to rule was done away with and outdated, in favour of the Rule of Law..... Classical and Neo-Classical thinking came into play on things such as crime, ethics and punishment and the concept of Man basically being a rational being responsible for his own actions came to the fore...

 

Religion is outdated, outmoded and totally anachronistic....

This comes more across like an Athiests Support Group thread than an unbias discussion thread about religion LOL.

 

There is more than enough proof that Christianity is based on realistic spirituality. Of course there won't be physical evidence of heaven and hell because your body doesn't go there, your spirit does. So it obviously doesn't physically occur, it does spiritually. If you have any sense of spirituality and open-mindedness you'll be able to believe and pick up religious concepts easier.

 

One of my closest friends was full-on Athiest and was constantly on my case joking about God etc, he then wanted to prove how wrong I am by finding fault with the Bible through reading it. And as he read it, God talked to him there and then. Full-on Athiest converted in a matter of minutes.

 

I think why people find religion a joke is because there are so many variations of it, except they all derive from the concept of God, just adjusted in different ways based on what certain cultures and their ancestors physically came across and from there built a concept upon. There is no proof that Christianity and the Bible is one big lie, and why would it be, after so many years, through so many people. What would we all get out of it for lying, when that's exactly what we are against? We might as well be Athiests then and just live and die and not give a $h!t. Religion is not a hobby, it's a choice.

Christians choose to believe in their religion because it's a way of letting go of all the wrong-doings we do everyday and a way of finding our own special purpose in life, appreciating what was given to us and what can be given to us.

And on the other hand you can choose to disagree with all of that and live your life contemplating spirituality and bashing religion the rest of your life as an Athiest. That really is the bottom line IMO. It is actually hopeless to even discuss religion, especially over the internet because religion comes down to a spiritual choice which obviously difficult to convey to those with their own stubborn opinions and completely non-existant spirituality. It's just going to round and round in circles, like it has for the last 2000+ years.

 

 

hi

 

where exactly is the 'more then enough evidence the christianity is based on spirituality'?... what exactly IS spirituality? tbh it seems like an abstract concept, there is no proof that spirit even exists.

 

you say that theres no physical evidence of heaven or hell because your spirit goes there.... but it HAS to be somewhere! logic dictates that! the universe is a physical entity, the only way that heaven or hell (utopia, paradise, call it what you will) can exist is IF the string theory or similar, is anything like right, and this universe co - exists along side other universes (a multiverse). there is NO evidence, nor even suggestion, theory, as to where heaven/hell exists in this physical universe or known dimension.

 

of course IF there are other dimensions currently unknown to us (unproven , but as theories do hold some water), then that does open the door to the possibility as to where the afterlife could exist. however that concept is so deep that non of the ancients who first wrote about 'paradise' in the afterlife could possibly have comprehended that. in fact, they didnt even know the earth was spherical and orbited the sun in the spiral arm of a galaxy, one of millions..

 

theres no proof that the bible is one big lie?.... id suggest that its not for us to disprove it so much as you to prove it IS the truth... its just a load of ancient writings, selected from thousands of such texts to try to prove a point. tbh 4 testimonies which often contradict eachother and were supposedly written 60 years after the event isnt a very sound basis for a whole system of belief. tucked away i only 1 gospel is the fundamental basis of christian doctrine "for god so loved the world that he gave his only son so that all who believe in him would not perish but have eternal life" (john 3:16) ,.... now that should be headline news across the whole spectrum of scripture, not tucked away in 1 unproven text. thousands of contemporary writings would have carried that message .... there are NO contemporary texts by the ruling roman authorities (tacitus etc) that even suggest that jesus existed.

 

god?.... yeah i believe in 'god', the natural force that drives life... we exist, we and our world are alive, so whatever natural force/law that exists that caused life to happen is god.

 

do i find this god in any religion?.... NO! i find people trying to own the concept of 'the lord' in oreder to control others, vying for power to further their own ends. but yes you are right in as much that there are so many variations of religion that it makes the concept a laughing stock.

 

whos to say which type of religion is correct if any?... god = religion = :wacko:

 

guys....i dont want this to be an athiest love in, ive lead the way many times in rubbishing religion, this time i want an open debate and i want people with religion to explain it to me.. :)

hi

 

where exactly is the 'more then enough evidence the christianity is based on spirituality'?... what exactly IS spirituality? tbh it seems like an abstract concept, there is no proof that spirit even exists.

 

you say that theres no physical evidence of heaven or hell because your spirit goes there.... but it HAS to be somewhere! logic dictates that! the universe is a physical entity, the only way that heaven or hell (utopia, paradise, call it what you will) can exist is IF the string theory or similar, is anything like right, and this universe co - exists along side other universes (a multiverse). there is NO evidence, nor even suggestion, theory, as to where heaven/hell exists in this physical universe or known dimension.

 

of course IF there are other dimensions currently unknown to us (unproven , but as theories do hold some water), then that does open the door to the possibility as to where the afterlife could exist. however that concept is so deep that non of the ancients who first wrote about 'paradise' in the afterlife could possibly have comprehended that. in fact, they didnt even know the earth was spherical and orbited the sun in the spiral arm of a galaxy, one of millions..

 

theres no proof that the bible is one big lie?.... id suggest that its not for us to disprove it so much as you to prove it IS the truth... its just a load of ancient writings, selected from thousands of such texts to try to prove a point. tbh 4 testimonies which often contradict eachother and were supposedly written 60 years after the event isnt a very sound basis for a whole system of belief. tucked away i only 1 gospel is the fundamental basis of christian doctrine "for god so loved the world that he gave his only son so that all who believe in him would not perish but have eternal life" (john 3:16) ,.... now that should be headline news across the whole spectrum of scripture, not tucked away in 1 unproven text. thousands of contemporary writings would have carried that message .... there are NO contemporary texts by the ruling roman authorities (tacitus etc) that even suggest that jesus existed.

 

god?.... yeah i believe in 'god', the natural force that drives life... we exist, we and our world are alive, so whatever natural force/law that exists that caused life to happen is god.

 

do i find this god in any religion?.... NO! i find people trying to own the concept of 'the lord' in oreder to control others, vying for power to further their own ends. but yes you are right in as much that there are so many variations of religion that it makes the concept a laughing stock.

 

whos to say which type of religion is correct if any?... god = religion = :wacko:

 

guys....i dont want this to be an athiest love in, ive lead the way many times in rubbishing religion, this time i want an open debate and i want people with religion to explain it to me.. :)

 

Spot on... It's just more proof of it being rather subjective and almost certainly open to criticism.... Certainly it should not be taken on simple "blind faith"....

 

That's different to the Christian/Islamic, etc view of "God"... Natural law and the Universe is almost certainly a cast-iron fact. I could almost certainly accept this concept of "God" because it clearly exists... "Heaven"?? "Hell?" "Celestial Angelic Choirs?" "70 Virgins waiting for us in Paradise if we blow up this bus or this tube"? Nonsense, and DANGEROUS nonsense at that..... -_-

No proof that it's the truth either..... It's total conjecture.... You'd MAY AS WELL believe in Zeus, Apollo, Ra, Bast, Gaia, Odin or Herne the Hunter.... Why exactly do we consider Greek, Roman, Egyptian deities as being the MYTHS, and accept this "God" as being the truth....? Why is Homer's 'Odyssey' considered myth or legend, and the Bible or the Koran considered "truth", why is Scientology considered as being a Fringe religion, and Catholicism or Islam considered mainstream....? It's totally and completely fukkin' arbitrary and quite clearly subject to change every few millenia or so.... In a couple of thousand years time our descendants will probably all be worshipping The Great Mystical Kangaroo or something equally ridiculous..... :rolleyes:

The bookwriters of the New Testament knew that writing about the events that they did could cost them their lives. Some were imprisoned, some were murdered. Ala the Apostle Paul.

 

The Bible's stories were witnessed by many people. The events written in it were done in the open and many, throughout history, have died because of such beliefs. In addition, throughout history, many have tried to discredit these writings but the stories told have obviously stood the test of time.

Differing from myths, legends etc, the events recorded in the Bible have happened in the presence of many credible witnesses. E.g. The Bible records plenty of testimonies belonging to women, and in that day and age a woman's word was not one of note. Scripture contains dozens of specific predictions that came true with 100% accuracy, in comparison to Nostradamus's vague "prophecies" which could be applied to literally anything - as an example.

 

You wouldn't find 48 major prophecies concerning the Messiah fulfilled in any single man, based on, even, science! The chance of that occuring by coincidence is something like 10 to 1 billion. Those are pretty high odds to reflect the truth of the Bible, Jesus and Christianity as a whole. .

Can you tell me what these specific prophecies are please?

For me, religion should be individually driven, not socially driven.

 

It should be about what ever each one chooses to believe or perceive what it's beyond physical and/or rational, not something you impose to others.

Religion is just an emotional crutch for those too mentally weak to think or believe in themselves so they are brainwashed a load of horse $h!t about a bearded guy in the clouds

 

No one who is mentally strong and non gullible should turn to or embrace religion