do you know what the biggest concern is from the ordinary 'johns' i talk too?... the increase in islam in this country... why? because sooner or later, once its built its popularity up its going to be pushing for changes in our laws and that wont be good news for women and gay people.... oh wait, i believe someone on telly has already voiced that concern but was cried down by a baying audience... yep, it was nick griffin! :lol:

Muslims are perfectly entitled to call for changes in the law and governments are perfectly entitled to say no. There's a much higher Islamic population in France but I'm not aware of any great campaign to have homosexuality outlawed or for women's rights to be curtailed.

Muslims are perfectly entitled to call for changes in the law and governments are perfectly entitled to say no. There's a much higher Islamic population in France but I'm not aware of any great campaign to have homosexuality outlawed or for women's rights to be curtailed.

 

But they shouldn't come into OUR country and even try tell us what to do, they don't like it here they can bugger off home if they are here they play by our rules

 

I will be more receptive about sharia law the day they start allowing churches in Saudi Arabia and the UAE but hell will freeze over before that happens but go to Riyadh and demand a church or a christian place of worship you will be arrested and flogged and probably jailed too so as far as I am concerned every mosque should be closed down in this country in the name of equality and fairness

 

Muslims coming here should be grateful it is time for them to fukk off back to where they came from in the first place if they don't like our rules -_-

 

Kevin Rudd said it best, it is time the party leaders shed PC and really told it as it is

 

 

 

 

 

 

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

 

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

 

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

 

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

 

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

 

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

 

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Edited October 26, 200915 yr by B.A Baracus

spoken like a true 'city boy'.... yep you talk about what you see but you dont see REAL english people, your townie view is the heart of the whole problem, with townies dictating what lifes about to ordinary people out in the sticks. get your arse into a real english village and talk to the locals...

 

My hometown is pretty much a heartland for what you call the "real English" (ugh). It's a town not a village, but it's in Cheshire, which is like 98% white, and my town has been particularly heavily-hit employment-wise in recent years... I live in one of the two towns with Vauxhall plants, where loads of jobs were slashed a couple of years ago, and which has been constantly under threat in the last year. I'm honestly surprised whenever I see an ethnic minority around where I live, because it's simply such a rare occurrance. Does all this mean that these "real English" stereotypes are racist and want all immigration to be stopped? Nope. Many people will occasionally grumble about it, but when it comes to the crunch, most would admit they wouldn't want to see immigration stopped, and they certainly wouldn't actively vote for a racist party. The implication that the "real English" are so worried about immigration levels that they will turn to the BNP is simply WRONG.

 

 

But they shouldn't come into OUR country and even try tell us what to do, they don't like it here they can bugger off home if they are here they play by our rules

 

How is a Muslim who was born here any less of a Brit than you or I? I'm pretty sure I remember you saying that you're Jewish, so I find it pretty strange that you're making these comments. I'm "ethnically" half-Jewish myself, and I certainly wouldn't appreciate someone who has 200 years of 100% "British ancestry" telling me my opinions on MY country are less valid than their opinions. And like any Brit (regardless of religious leanings or ethnicity), I will take full advantage of my right to say I dislike things about my country without leaving. Multiculturalism is a part of this country whether you like it or not, so if YOU don't like it, maybe you should take your own advice and YOU should leave. Born in Britain, you're British - simple as that.

 

And anyway, the vast majority of Muslims would not want to see Sharia law incorporated into British law, and the number of Muslims is simply never going to outweigh the number of Christians/non-religious, so your post is scare-mongering nonsense.

Edited October 26, 200915 yr by Danny

My hometown is pretty much a heartland for what you call the "real English" (ugh). It's a town not a village, but it's in Cheshire, which is like 98% white, and my town has been particularly heavily-hit employment-wise in recent years... I live in one of the two towns with Vauxhall plants, where loads of jobs were slashed a couple of years ago, and which has been constantly under threat in the last year. I'm honestly surprised whenever I see an ethnic minority around where I live, because it's simply such a rare occurrance. Does all this mean that these "real English" stereotypes are racist and want all immigration to be stopped? Nope. Many people will occasionally grumble about it, but when it comes to the crunch, most would admit they wouldn't want to see immigration stopped, and they certainly wouldn't actively vote for a racist party. The implication that the "real English" are so worried about immigration levels that they will turn to the BNP is simply WRONG.

How is a Muslim who was born here any less of a Brit than you or I? I'm pretty sure I remember you saying that you're Jewish, so I find it pretty strange that you're making these comments. I'm "ethnically" half-Jewish myself, and I certainly wouldn't appreciate someone who has 200 years of 100% "British ancestry" telling me my opinions on MY country are less valid than their opinions. And like any Brit (regardless of religious leanings or ethnicity), I will take full advantage of my right to say I dislike things about my country without leaving. Multiculturalism is a part of this country whether you like it or not, so if YOU don't like it, maybe you should take your own advice and YOU should leave. Born in Britain, you're British - simple as that.

 

And anyway, the vast majority of Muslims would not want to see Sharia law incorporated into British law, and the number of Muslims is simply never going to outweigh the number of Christians/non-religious, so your post is scare-mongering nonsense.

 

Even though I was born here and live here I am not ethnically British and don't pretend to be, I am culturally British and I would rightly expect an earful if I started protesting against English laws and cultures and traditions and for example started demanding that no one work on the sabbath or that christmas be banned, if I didn't like this country and its traditions I would bugger off to another one and muslims and anyone from any religion that doesn't like the British way of life should go even if they were born here like I was

 

When someone from another country comes through passport control they should leave religion at the gates and integrate to British way of life

Edited October 26, 200915 yr by B.A Baracus

And look at when England are playing Pakistan at cricket, the ground is packed with asians cheering on Pakistan, those that are tourists are fine but the ones that live here or were born here should support England not Pakistan, I bet half those Pakistan fans that were cheering AGAINST England were born here so they are not culturally British they are pakistani's

Or...here's a revolutionary thought Craig. They are of dual nationality culturally. Did you not say you said you were Russian when you went abroad because you were ashamed of identifying as English? :manson: These people may be very grateful to this nation and love it for what it is but still be very entitled to celebrate their heritage. I thought we left Tebbit's Cricket Test bollocks in the 80s? :manson:

But they shouldn't come into OUR country and even try tell us what to do, they don't like it here they can bugger off home if they are here they play by our rules

 

I will be more receptive about sharia law the day they start allowing churches in Saudi Arabia and the UAE but hell will freeze over before that happens but go to Riyadh and demand a church or a christian place of worship you will be arrested and flogged and probably jailed too so as far as I am concerned every mosque should be closed down in this country in the name of equality and fairness

 

Muslims coming here should be grateful it is time for them to fukk off back to where they came from in the first place if they don't like our rules -_-

 

Kevin Rudd said it best, it is time the party leaders shed PC and really told it as it is

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

 

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

 

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

 

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

 

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

 

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

 

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

The difference is that Saudi Arabia is a holy place to them - of course they would kick up a fuss if a church was built there! Your analogy is flawed, the true equivalent would be a Muslim demanding a mosque built in the Vatican City...

 

And whomever wrote that speech is talking bollocks (and it wasn't Rudd, http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp) - anybody with a rudimentary knowledge of Australia knows the only Christian principle that the nation was founded on was 'thou shalt not steal'! :P In any case, that speech is entirely inappropriate for the UK - God is hardly a part of our culture in this day and age, given the miniscule church attendance rates. It's a load of populist bull$h!t, as very few immigrants come here and complain about the nation (basically every immigrant I have ever met has gushed to me about how much they love this country and how easy it is to integrate), but attitudes like those peddled by the BNP, the Daily Mail et al would have us think every Islamic immigrant demands that we accept Sharia law. Very few of our nation's Muslims are at all fundamentalist...

Or...here's a revolutionary thought Craig. They are of dual nationality culturally. Did you not say you said you were Russian when you went abroad because you were ashamed of identifying as English? :manson: These people may be very grateful to this nation and love it for what it is but still be very entitled to celebrate their heritage. I thought we left Tebbit's Cricket Test bollocks in the 80s? :manson:

 

English tourists thanks to the binge drinkers in Ibiza, Majorca, Costa's and Greek Islands and football fans travelling to foreign games have severely tarnished the reputation of British tourists, say you are British when you go on holiday now then you can expect to be assumed to be a football hooligan so I hide my Britishness and use my parentage and grandparentage roots so that I will not be viewed as a hostile threat to them and will get on well with the locals, nothing wrong in that, British tourists have an appalling reputation because of the actions of a minority

 

Anyone who lives here should fully support the England team in sports, there are lots of asian players in the England team and they have made the effort to be British, if I go and live in Australia I would quite rightly support Australia in cricket, football, athletics etc etc as I am one of them once I have settled there if I left Britain so the only people supporting Pakistan at Edgbaston and Lords should be tourists

Edited October 26, 200915 yr by B.A Baracus

Oh, and Rob - approximately one and a half million people in this country identify as being Muslim , which works out as 2.7% of our population. I find it ironic that Nick Griffin gripes about the political influence of this group seeing as they have just half a million on the number of BNP voters in the European election, and look how little effect on the system the BNP have! :lol:

English tourists thanks to the binge drinkers in Ibiza, Majorca, Costa's and Greek Islands and football fans travelling to foreign games have severely tarnished the reputation of British tourists, say you are British when you go on holiday now then you can expect to be assumed to be a football hooligan so I hide my Britishness and use my parentage and grandparentage roots so that I will not be viewed as a hostile threat to them and will get on well with the locals, nothing wrong in that, British tourists have an appalling reputation because of the actions of a minority

 

Anyone who lives here should fully support the England team in sports, there are lots of asian players in the England team and they have made the effort to be British, if I go and live in Australia I would quite rightly support Australia in cricket, football, athletics etc etc as I am one of them once I have settled there if I left Britain so the only people supporting Pakistan at Edgbaston and Lords should be tourists

You haven't at all answered why people who live here should fully support the team. Loving and living in the nation =/= abandoning your heritage.

 

And the former part of your post (although this isn't really directed at you) goes to show why the vast majority of us are so uneasy with patriotism as it has been so tarnished by jingoistic morons...the party that learns to practice patriotism without leaning into bully boy xenophobia will almost certainly win the election after it does, it would seem. We need to drive the BNP out of the equation when it comes to nationalism and show that we can practice it without having to recourse to ugly discrimination...

This thread is really quite disturbing.. Craig is coming across as outrageously racist, Rob is quite clearly the only hypocrite in the entire topic and clearly supports the BNP. Seriously anyone who uses the term 'ethnically British' is a BNP supporter 'm8'.

 

As for your absurd claims Craig, let me just say with response to your cricket comment, why should those born here NOT support Pakistan if that's where their heritage and families generations is based? They have just as much right as you to support who they want.. You've come across as a racist, homophobic knob in this topic so I would suggest stopping before you get carried away... (I was going to say warned but with mushy'BNP'manrob modding this forum he's probably cheering you on).

The difference is that Saudi Arabia is a holy place to them - of course they would kick up a fuss if a church was built there! Your analogy is flawed, the true equivalent would be a Muslim demanding a mosque built in the Vatican City...

 

And whomever wrote that speech is talking bollocks (and it wasn't Rudd, http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp) - anybody with a rudimentary knowledge of Australia knows the only Christian principle that the nation was founded on was 'thou shalt not steal'! :P In any case, that speech is entirely inappropriate for the UK - God is hardly a part of our culture in this day and age, given the miniscule church attendance rates. It's a load of populist bull$h!t, as very few immigrants come here and complain about the nation (basically every immigrant I have ever met has gushed to me about how much they love this country and how easy it is to integrate), but attitudes like those peddled by the BNP, the Daily Mail et al would have us think every Islamic immigrant demands that we accept Sharia law. Very few of our nation's Muslims are at all fundamentalist...

 

I worked out in Qatar for a time and it was the same there Tyron, any religious worship that is conducted can only be islamic, there were no churches, no synagogues, nothing, the mullah's allowed christian worship only in people's homes so it is not just Saudi Arabia and holy cities, its the same in Doha where I was and is the same in Dubai, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi etc which are hardly holy places, it is just muslims having their cake and eating it

 

Ironically the only place in the middle east where christianity was allowed and openly practiced and churches were allowed was Saddam Hussein's Iraq

This thread is really quite disturbing.. Craig is coming across as outrageously racist, Rob is quite clearly the only hypocrite in the entire topic and clearly supports the BNP. Seriously anyone who uses the term 'ethnically British' is a BNP supporter 'm8'.

 

As for your absurd claims Craig, let me just say with response to your cricket comment, why should those born here NOT support Pakistan if that's where their heritage and families generations is based? They have just as much right as you to support who they want.. You've come across as a racist, homophobic knob in this topic so I would suggest stopping before you get carried away... (I was going to say warned but with mushy'BNP'manrob modding this forum he's probably cheering you on).

 

I am not racist at all, many of the most outspoken comments against Griffin and the BNP have been from me, if Rob or Scott deem my posts racist I am sure my warning level will rise but I doubt it will happen as I am not being remotely racist

I worked out in Qatar for a time and it was the same there Tyron, any religious worship that is conducted can only be islamic, there were no churches, no synagogues, nothing, the mullah's allowed christian worship only in people's homes so it is not just Saudi Arabia and holy cities, its the same in Doha where I was and is the same in Dubai, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi etc which are hardly holy places, it is just muslims having their cake and eating it

 

Ironically the only place in the middle east where christianity was allowed and openly practiced and churches were allowed was Saddam Hussein's Iraq

It's more that government there isn't at all secular - something you're not going to find me ever defend, but that is why we would be unable to...the reason it doesn't work both ways is that the people demanding the construction of mosques here (hardly an unreasonable request in a pluralistic society) aren't at all liable for the actions of their government, hence why we take the higher, more enlightened ground...the reason I was responding with the Saudi thing was that you explicitly mentioned Riyadh, I was saying why it would never be allowed (especially there) :P

You haven't at all answered why people who live here should fully support the team. Loving and living in the nation =/= abandoning your heritage.

 

And the former part of your post (although this isn't really directed at you) goes to show why the vast majority of us are so uneasy with patriotism as it has been so tarnished by jingoistic morons...the party that learns to practice patriotism without leaning into bully boy xenophobia will almost certainly win the election after it does, it would seem. We need to drive the BNP out of the equation when it comes to nationalism and show that we can practice it without having to recourse to ugly discrimination...

 

Multi culturalism is a failed experiment, parts of cities are like a seperate country and that is wrong, Golders Green might as well be Tel Aviv, Brixton/Stockwell/Clapham might as well be Jamaica, Bradford is like karachi, Tottenham is like the centre of Istanbul, Southall for example is like walking round Mumbai, and it is just plain wrong, people from other cultures are forming their own communities like countries within a country and just mixing with their own as opposed to blending in everywhere across the country, that shows that multi culturalism is a failed concept (I am not being racist I included my own religion) and it is just as bad with Brits living in the Costa Del Sol, they just form their own country within a country which is wrong

 

For example is a person coming over from say pakistan is he in general going to get a house in rural Derbyshire or Berkshire and so on ? no, he will just go where the fellow types are gathered in their own country within a country, that is what I am against, they should be mixing and living among the indigenous white population

 

Everyone who lives here should integrate and mix and scatter themselves around the country and be BRITISH and live the British life and mix with whites and blacks as opposed to their own kind

 

Awaits being branded a racist :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Edited October 26, 200915 yr by B.A Baracus

Anyone who lives here should fully support the England team in sports, there are lots of asian players in the England team and they have made the effort to be British, if I go and live in Australia I would quite rightly support Australia in cricket, football, athletics etc etc as I am one of them once I have settled there if I left Britain so the only people supporting Pakistan at Edgbaston and Lords should be tourists

 

What total crap!

 

 

I worked out in Qatar for a time and it was the same there Tyron, any religious worship that is conducted can only be islamic, there were no churches, no synagogues, nothing, the mullah's allowed christian worship only in people's homes so it is not just Saudi Arabia and holy cities, its the same in Doha where I was and is the same in Dubai, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi etc which are hardly holy places, it is just muslims having their cake and eating it

Considering some of what the Israeli government has done over the years, I don't think of either of us can criticise other governments for being religiously closed-minded. Not that *I* would ever want to associate myself in any way with the Israeli government, but if Muslims are being held accountable for some of the corrupt regimes in Islamic countries then I guess we should be held accountable for some of Israel's atrocities.

 

 

Awaits being branded a racist

 

No, nothing racist about talking about the "indigenous whites" and referring to ethnic minorities as "their own kind" at all.

 

The big irony of all this is, at the start of this tirade, you stated that anyone who doesn't like the "British way of life" should just leave the country. Well, guess what, multi-culturalism is the closest thing Britain has to an identity and way of life in the 21st century, so if you don't like it, then take your own advice and leave.

Multi culturalism is a failed experiment, parts of cities are like a seperate country and that is wrong, Golders Green might as well be Tel Aviv, Brixton/Stockwell/Clapham might as well be Jamaica, Bradford is like karachi, Tottenham is like the centre of Istanbul, Southall for example is like walking round Mumbai, and it is just plain wrong, people from other cultures are forming their own communities like countries within a country and just mixing with their own as opposed to blending in everywhere across the country, that shows that multi culturalism is a failed concept (I am not being racist I included my own religion) and it is just as bad with Brits living in the Costa Del Sol, they just form their own country within a country which is wrong

 

For example is a person coming over from say pakistan is he in general going to get a house in rural Derbyshire or Berkshire and so on ? no, he will just go where the fellow types are gathered in their own country within a country, that is what I am against, they should be mixing and living among the indigenous white population

 

Everyone who lives here should integrate and mix and scatter themselves around the country and be BRITISH and live the British life and mix with whites and blacks as opposed to their own kind

 

Awaits being branded a racist :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You brand multiculturalism as a failed concept when it doesn't even exist in its intended sense - what we have today is not multiculturalism, but many cultures living in isolation! I agree that we ought to all integrate and mix, but I find it amusing that you brand multiculturalism to have failed as an experiment when you're espousing the experiment itself!

Anyone who lives here should fully support the England team in sports, there are lots of asian players in the England team and they have made the effort to be British, if I go and live in Australia I would quite rightly support Australia in cricket, football, athletics etc etc as I am one of them once I have settled there if I left Britain so the only people supporting Pakistan at Edgbaston and Lords should be tourists

What utter rubbish. If I move abroad when I retire I shall continue to support the England football team. After all, I still support Brighton and Hove Albion despite living in Bournemouth.

But they shouldn't come into OUR country and even try tell us what to do, they don't like it here they can bugger off home if they are here they play by our rules

On a scale of 1 to 10 your reply would score 11 for nonsense. We believe in free speech here. That same freedom of speech should be extended to people who weren't born here. Would you say that anyone whose Jewish ancestors fled Nazi Germany or other occupied countries shouldn't be able to say what they want? If any of them want to ban pork for instance, let them argue their case. I won't agree with them but they should be perfectly free to advocate it.

On a scale of 1 to 10 your reply would score 11 for nonsense. We believe in free speech here. That same freedom of speech should be extended to people who weren't born here. Would you say that anyone whose Jewish ancestors fled Nazi Germany or other occupied countries shouldn't be able to say what they want? If any of them want to ban pork for instance, let them argue their case. I won't agree with them but they should be perfectly free to advocate it.

 

Indeed. In fact, another irony of BA's argument is that many Muslims living in Britain have ancestry that traces further back than Jews in Israel...