December 19, 200915 yr Oh Joe. :( That photo has quite obviously been photoshopped by The Sun which doesn't suprise me at all, but everything he's saying just seems like it's scripted from team SyCo. He's just a pawn on the chess board and I don't think he understand what he's saying. Rooney, you are being WAY too generous here..... I was prepared to give Joe the benefit of the doubt, but now today ALL doubt has been swept aside... Yeah, he's a pawn, but he's also a spineless Corporate "Yes Man" who wont add in anyway to the musical culture of this great nation.... In fact, whatever he does will obviously be totally compromised.. We can blame Cowell for this on one level, but at the end of the day, Cowell didn't put a gun to his head and FORCE him to say this rubbish.... Showing such a total lack of respect for another artist (and especially one who's your artistic superior in EVERY WAY imaginable) is just plain ignorant.... and shows that he's not only a musical lightweight, he's a musical re****.... All he had to do was say "well, it's not my cup of tea, but I respect what they're doing...", especially seeing as how RATM are donating their profits to CHARITY......... <_< Do we really need someone like him in music....? I think not....
December 19, 200915 yr Surely his arrogance is not his own though, he's probably just repeating what he's had said to him many times from Cowell & Co. History has taught us that Mr Cowell soon loses interest in acts if they are not instantly successful and Joe will know that there's a fair chance that his career will effectively be over should Simon end up viewing him as a failure, I do sort of feel sorry for him. He said the words, he did the deed... Does it matter that he was "only following orders"?? FUKK NO..... If he's that much of a gutless wimp to not stand up and say "I'm not going along with this", then he can fukk right off because his entire career is going to be just total compromise and just doing what he's told.... British music needs this sort of crap like a hole in the head..... I had some modicum of sympathy for him before he opened his mouth and showed us his character..... That of an ignorant, gutless coward who'll do exactly as he's told.....
December 19, 200915 yr He said the words, he did the deed... Does it matter that he was "only following orders"?? FUKK NO..... If he's that much of a gutless wimp to not stand up and say "I'm not going along with this", then he can fukk right off because his entire career is going to be just total compromise and just doing what he's told.... British music needs this sort of crap like a hole in the head..... I had some modicum of sympathy for him before he opened his mouth and showed us his character..... That of an ignorant, gutless coward who'll do exactly as he's told..... At the end of the day he is just a kid and I don't think any part of the campaign should be aimed at him. I'm no fan of Joe's music and I don't imagine for a second that he'll ever release anything of any level of substance but, as you say, he's just a pawn in this and I don't think it's particularly big to attack his character. Who would seriously turn round to their boss in the first week of any job and tell them to f*** off, especially if that job was the biggest opportunity you're ever likely to get.
December 19, 200915 yr At the end of the day he is just a kid and I don't think any part of the campaign should be aimed at him. I'm no fan of Joe's music and I don't imagine for a second that he'll ever release anything of any level of substance but, as you say, he's just a pawn in this and I don't think it's particularly big to attack his character. Who would seriously turn round to their boss in the first week of any job and tell them to f*** off, especially if that job was the biggest opportunity you're ever likely to get. You're right Dandy, no part of the campaign should be aimed at him. I'm no particualr fan of his but the campaign is about him as much as it is about Shayne Ward. He's just the current face of it. Nor do I think Cowell should be targeted publicly even if he is the architect. This sort of bland pop music always has and always will be around. It's the inevitability of it clogging up the charts that is the real issue. There's simply too much of it and it's stifling music that has real character and originality. Of course we've been here before with SAW and something will inevitably give but this campaign will at the very least sho the country that there's a large (and possibly growing) number of people who are getting increasingly fed up with it. Even if RATM don't make #1 it can still be viewed as a huge achievement and will have highlighted one more great band that many would never have discovered otherwise
December 19, 200915 yr At the end of the day he is just a kid and I don't think any part of the campaign should be aimed at him. I'm no fan of Joe's music and I don't imagine for a second that he'll ever release anything of any level of substance but, as you say, he's just a pawn in this and I don't think it's particularly big to attack his character. Who would seriously turn round to their boss in the first week of any job and tell them to f*** off, especially if that job was the biggest opportunity you're ever likely to get. Well, er, isn't that the WHOLE PROBLEM...???? Isn't this why we're having this whole debate...? That music is considered a "job" like being an office drone or a checkout operator....??? COME ON dude, that is so NOT what it is, and no serious music fan or musician would ever think that it is..... Did you not actually view the Bill Hicks clip I put up...??? I'd have more respect for Joe if he DID turn around to Cowell and say "fukk you, I wont do what you tell me"...... I dont think it's particularly "big" of Joe to attack Rage just because his fukkin' "boss" tells him to.....
December 19, 200915 yr At the end of the day he is just a kid and I don't think any part of the campaign should be aimed at him. I'm no fan of Joe's music and I don't imagine for a second that he'll ever release anything of any level of substance but, as you say, he's just a pawn in this and I don't think it's particularly big to attack his character. Who would seriously turn round to their boss in the first week of any job and tell them to f*** off, especially if that job was the biggest opportunity you're ever likely to get. I have to disagree. Whichever way you look at it this reflects very badly on Joe that either he is a complete muppet for following the orders of someone so clueless and arrogant as Simon Cowell (just read his NME interview for proof - yeah right you are the Pet Shop Boys have not done one good record in the last 15 years ... ), or if that is his opinion it shows that he has awful music taste & lacks respect for a vastly superior act and more damagingly he has no class to attack them in that manner. It would have been very easy for him to either dead bat the question or at least show no hard feelings and a mutual respect for RATM and their fanbase like RATM & the Facebook organisers have to Joe. I distinctly remember first Pop Idol winner Will Young being very apologetic for stopping Shakira's Whenever Wherever reaching #1, but then again (unlike "average Joe") Will Young was a class act & very talented, and clearly loved music by his excellent selection of covers in live sessions over the years, which is why he is still around today. But the bottom line for me was that on this year's (Fi)X-Factor he was the best of a bad bunch this year, but now I think he is a numpty and hope his career fades quicker than it takes me to type Leon Jackson where are you now?
December 19, 200915 yr I distinctly remember first Pop Idol winner Will Young being very apologetic for stopping Shakira's Whenever Wherever reaching #1, but then again (unlike "average Joe") Will Young was a class act & very talented, and clearly loved music by his excellent selection of covers in live sessions over the years, which is why he is still around today. Spot on Rich... Will Young aint my cup of tea, but he at least gets my respect for doing his own thing and not being manipulated... Same for Kelly Clarkson..... Look what happened when they tried to force her into doing R & B stuff.... She basically said "fukk that" and went her own sort of "Pop/Rock Chick" way...... Joe's actions are just saying to me that this guy is gonna just produce totally worthless trash.... But even that wouldn't be such a cardinal sin in itself, his decision to take part in Cowell and Clifford's anti Rage p!ssing contest does him no credit whatsoever, it just makes him look an absolute fool....
December 19, 200915 yr Well, er, isn't that the WHOLE PROBLEM...???? Isn't this why we're having this whole debate...? That music is considered a "job" like being an office drone or a checkout operator....??? COME ON dude, that is so NOT what it is, and no serious music fan or musician would ever think that it is..... Did you not actually view the Bill Hicks clip I put up...??? I'd have more respect for Joe if he DID turn around to Cowell and say "fukk you, I wont do what you tell me"...... I dont think it's particularly "big" of Joe to attack Rage just because his fukkin' "boss" tells him to..... I agree, it IS the whole problem but the fault still lies with the producers and record labels for turning it into a job rather than something that requires huge levels of talent and skill. The whole process of the X-Factor is effectively applying for a job and I'd expect anyone who wins it will do what they've been told because the people who respect and care about their music would never choose to begin their career via the show. I actually think we basically agree in principle, it's just that I can't really agree with laying into his personality as part of the same debate. And, no, I don't think it is big of Joe to attack RATM for the same reasons that I don't think it's big to attack him... Edited December 19, 200915 yr by Dandy*
December 19, 200915 yr I agree, it IS the whole problem but the fault still lies with the producers and record labels for turning it into a job rather than something that requires huge levels of talent and skill. The whole process of the X-Factor is effectively applying for a job and I'd expect anyone who wins it will do what they've been told because the people who respect and care about their music would never choose to begin their career via the show. I actually think we basically agree in principle, it's just that I can't really agree with laying into his personality as part of the same debate. And, no, I don't think it is big of Joe to attack RATM for the same reasons that I don't think it's big to attack him... We'll just have to agree to disagree mate... I think that "only following orders" really essentially amounts to the same thing in this case... I dont think it says anything at all positive about Joe's character at all, especially when you consider that Rage said nothing negative about HIM personally, it just makes him look, at best, like a drone, a stooge, which is not good at all...
December 19, 200915 yr Spot on Rich... Will Young aint my cup of tea, but he at least gets my respect for doing his own thing and not being manipulated... Same for Kelly Clarkson..... Look what happened when they tried to force her into doing R & B stuff.... She basically said "fukk that" and went her own sort of "Pop/Rock Chick" way...... The funny thing is when you look at the whole Reality TV talent show phenomenon there are only four acts from the USA & UK to come away with a long lasting and established career: Will Young - stood his ground with Simon with regards to what music he wanted to make and what image he wanted to portray in his videos, so that Simon left him to his own devices after his first album to focus on Gareth Gates. Kelly Clarkson - first American Idol, stood her ground with regards to the musical vision she wanted to go i.e. more rock/pop less R'N'B lite Girls Aloud - sacked manager Louis Walsh (albeit with him retaining 25% royalties for the duration of their first major recording contract which lapsed a couple of years ago with the Greatest Hits album), hired writers/producers Xenomania and a very healthy relationship was established. Carrie Underwood - stuck to her guns that she wanted to be a country recording artist, and has been very credible as a result. All four of those acts have done well because they rose above the usual Reality TV winning song dreck to establish their own individuality, sound and to a lesser degree artistic vision. Coincidence? I don't think so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leona Lewis' first album was a huge success filling the void left by Mariah, Whitney & Celine; but the second album has performed underwhelmingly so far after the release of the tepid first single from it, so question marks are beginning to hover with regards to a long term career especially as she still seems to be a Cowell puppet and not an individual artist. Whilst it is way too soon to comment on Susan Boyle or Adam Lambert.
December 19, 200915 yr Author Has anybody seen today's The Sun newspaper ..... Joe McElderry = see you next Tuesday.... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showb...es-riffage.html He said: "They can't be serious! I had no idea what it sounded like. It's dreadful and I hate it. How could anyone enjoy this? Can you imagine the grandmas hearing this over Christmas lunch? "I wouldn't buy it. It's a nought out of ten from me. Simon Cowell wouldn't like it. They wouldn't get through to boot camp on The X Factor - they're just shouting." Oh what a prick, Anyone who sympathises for him now is just a plain idiot after what her has said. I have already taken two people off my Facebook friends list for joining a group called 'Joe McElderry For no.1, RATM campaign is stupid'. I hate the 'they're just shouting' criticism, especically when it comes to Rage, talk about missing the point. Joe McElderry = Simon's fukkin' STOOGE, his little cock-sucking B1TCH.... He can p!ss off and die.... His "career" will last about two minutes, and people will STILL be listening to Rage when he's flipping burgers in McDonalds..... Tosser..... -_- To quote the late, great Bill Hicks - "A ball-less, souless, little corporate b"tch, SUCKER OF SATAN'S COCK....It's only your dignity, suck it..... After reading this quote, I am now officially seriously p!ssed off..... Forget everything I said on that chart chat thread, FUKK JOE McELDERRY, RAGE FOR No1!!!!!!!!!! He's showing no sort of respect for RATM who have shown a lot more decency than to attack this pathetic little stooge-boy personally, and now for no real reason (other than the fact that he's probably been TOLD to..) he comes at Rage like the obedient little Simon Slave that he is...... Joe, RATM wrote this song for puppets like you with no minds of their own.... Glad to see you have come around Scott, even if Sony are behind it, that isnt the reason people are buying it people are buying it because they want to get rid of the x factor, they want real music back. Have you heard their radio 5 interview? By the way, why did the thread in Chart Chat get shut down.... The little Joe-supporting corporate ****** couldn't handle a heated debate....?? :lol: If you look back it is because Bert said he thought RATM would 'cash in' on this campaign, I banged my head many times, proved him wrong, told him if he is going to debate, then at least know what you are talking about, and then repeatedly called him an idiot. He then didnt bother replying to any of my points only told me he 'didnt take insults well' so naturally i called him an idiot some more, he then told another member on MSN if he saw me in real life he would 'stab me in the head with a big knife' (just for calling him an idiot!!!). And then I got a warning for being abusive to another member :dance: god it isnt like I called him a c**t, it was only idiot, and he was being an idiot so yanno, dont say idiotic things, dont get called an idiot etc. So yeah that is what made the thread get closed. On a number of occasions a photo has ended many a famous person's career..... surely this could easily be another example of that: http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00951/SNF19BIZAN-280_951687a.jpg Looks a bit photoshopped, but it still makes me angry. At the end of the day he is just a kid and I don't think any part of the campaign should be aimed at him. I'm no fan of Joe's music and I don't imagine for a second that he'll ever release anything of any level of substance but, as you say, he's just a pawn in this and I don't think it's particularly big to attack his character. Who would seriously turn round to their boss in the first week of any job and tell them to f*** off, especially if that job was the biggest opportunity you're ever likely to get. Mate, the campaign WASNT aimed at him at all, but after what he has said, it f***ing is now, his fault. I hate how the music industry is now business over art, but this is why we want RATM at number 1, turning around to your boss on your first day, if he is being a prick and you tell him f*** YOU I WONT DO WHAT YOU TELL ME, that is what Rage is about, being treated fairly, fighting for what is right. And the whole fact that they will do a 'massive free victory gig' if they get number 1, will mean i will be epicly dissapointed, I NEED to see them live again.
December 19, 200915 yr Author from Tom's Facebook: RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE have just announced that if their single "KILLING IN THE NAME" is number one on the Christmas Week UK pop charts over the single from X-Factor winner they WILL PLAY A HUGE FREE CONCERT IN THE UK TO CELEBRATE THE VICTORY OF THIS HISTORIC PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN!!!! If the unprecedented grassroots movement to topple the X-Factor monopoly is successful in making Rage number one the group will return to UK shores sometime in 2010 for a massive "thankyou" gig. And get this...Rage have vowed to invite 2nd Place finisher, X-Factor empressario Simon Cowell, to MC the show! Said Rage guitarist Tom Morello late friday night: "Attention Freedom Fighters! RAGE VS. X-FACTOR WILL BE DECIDED BY SATURDAY'S SALES. Spread the word! Knock on doors! Host downloading parties! Knock over ladies buying X-Factor! The clock is ticking. And if "Killing in the Name" is number one WE ARE COMING. And it will be the victory party to end all victory parties. Visit these links to purchase the track: iTUNES - 99p - track #2 (click on 'view in itunes' on the right) http://bit.ly/ratm-itunes PLAY.COM - 65p - it's the only track on the page http://bit.ly/ratm-play 7DIGITAL - 50p - track #2 http://bit.ly/rage-7digital HMV.COM - 79p (careful - this is track #1) http://bit.ly/ratm-hmv TUNETRIBE - 49P - track #2 - LIVE version (yes it counts) http://bit.ly/ratm-tunetribe or http://bit.ly/rage-tunetribe (Studio Version) TESCO DIGITAL - 67p - track #2 http://bit.ly/ratm-tesco WE7 - £1.07p - track #2 http://bit.ly/ratm-we7
December 20, 200915 yr Let Joe have this number one because we won't see him on scene in the future anyway :lol: Edited December 20, 200915 yr by SnowPavel
December 20, 200915 yr HEELLLLLLLLLLLL YESSSSSSSS. Fukk Me!!! You mean RATM actually won?????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
December 20, 200915 yr Author Fukk Me!!! You mean RATM actually won?????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :) a great day for music.
December 20, 200915 yr It is actually amazing. I was expecting a result of another 150K ish selling #2 and never dreamt at the beginning of the week that it would take off in this manner.
December 20, 200915 yr This has almost restored my faith in the British public I can only say that it serves Cowell and McElderry right... The sheer idiotic, ignorant hubris they showed in The Sun yesterday has backfired so completely on them.... If Joe's career fails, then he has "Simple Simon" to thank for it..... This is a victory for REAL MUSIC....... I'd like to think that somewhere Bill Hicks is sitting on a cloud, and crying a tear of joy right now..... RATM do indeed PLAY IT FROM THE FUKKIN' HEART....... Now, about that free gig lads....... :rolleyes:
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