lol for someone who doesnt like gaga you give her a lot of your time. :unsure:

I'm not saying they aren't opinions, i said they seem obvious.

Gaga has been around for 2 years yes, and i as i said people may not think it yet but she is/will be a musical icon. She has changed pop music which your post shows, as people are now attempting to be different and 'out there' to be noticed like gaga has been.

You say people arent copying gaga, so the same argument goes for gaga not copying madonna, it can be said its 'very annoying' people saying gaga is copying madonna when shes just being different, creative and unique.

'The younger generation' (which you are part of) doesnt think she's BRAND new, they arent thick, they are aware of previous artists, but gaga is unique in today's music world: fact.

Give gaga twenty years, i'll put a lot of money on it, that she will have changed music forever and be considered a musical icon.

As I stated before, I used to be a big fan, but I've gone off her completely at the moment. I'm also very big on music in general, so I know a lot about most artists.

 

They seem obvious to you though, a lot of people don't agree with that, so whilst they seem obvious to you, they seem obviously incorrect to others. You can't pass off your opinions as facts, just because they seem obvious to you, that's not how it works.

 

No she's not. She's a pop star who is recycling what past artists have done, and bringing it to the present. She is not a musical icon, Lady Gaga herself said that it was crazy that people are calling her that, because she's not. And no, that's not what my post says. They're not trying to do that, they're just trying to do something different to what they may usually do (change their style, like Madonna etc...) and straight away, Gaga's crazy little "monsters" call everyone copycats. This whole Christina Aguilera thing is ludicrous, seeing as a lot of things that Gaga's done looks exactly like what Christina did when she was younger. They appear to be blind to the obvious facts, and it's annoying as hell. She's not changed pop music in any way, it's stayed exactly the same, just with Gaga's music now being the most prominent. She hasn't created a new musical style or anything like that, so she's not changed pop music. At all.

 

Gaga is blatantly copying Madonna. There's loads of articles going round at the moment, because Madonna is angry about Gaga's "Alejandro" video, with all the things she's done in the video, previously done by Madonna in her other videos. The gun bra for one, stood out for me. It looked like a blatant rip off of Madonna's cone bra, but they're talking more about the religion stuff. There are plenty of articles, sites, with examples of Gaga's copying "inspiration" from Madonna. And like Arrs has just said, Lady Gaga is not unique, everything she is doing has been done before, you just weren't around to see it - nor was I, but I've looked at all the past musical icons.

 

Yes they do. I know a lot of people who think Lady Gaga is incredibly original, she's created this and that, no-one's been like her before... yadda, yadda, yadda. And it's saddening, because there are much more talented people out there, and in the past, that aren't getting anywhere near as much credit as Lady Gaga is. She's very talented at playing the piano, she's an alright singer, and she's an alright songwriter. I don't like how everyone hails her as the second coming. It's wrong. She's not unique, she's just unusual.

 

Gaga won't last twenty years, I don't think. The only artists that have lasted for even ten years are either incredibly gifted (vocally), or are able to change their styles to keep them relevant. Gaga is stuck once the electro-pop craze fizzles out. Her crazy outfits won't be cared about anymore, and people will be over her. She's not able to change that much, she's in one box, and she's going to struggle to get out of it.

I haven't posted in ages (due to exams :angry: ), but I always keep updated with the threads and posts (often for general entertainment) and I find it necessary to say how I feel about the whole thing.

 

Firstly, I would like to stress the fact that, while I am a huge GaGa fan, I also have a lot of love for Madonna, so my opinion is pretty much unbiased. I'd like to start by addressing the issue of the whole 'delusional GaGa fans'. Lady GaGa is my favourite artist. Do I believe she's completely original? No. Do I believe she invented the music video? No. It is unfair to generalise when it comes to GaGa fans in believing that we are all idiots, that we are all sheep and that we all hate anyone who may be seen as competition to her, because that is not true at all. Part of being a fan is defending your favourite artist. Another part is understanding the criticisms others have of them. So we're not ALL completely immature. The day I first began to love Lady GaGa wasn't when Just Dance or Poker Face come out, wasn't when The Fame hit number 1, wasn't when she started having worldwide success... It was when I saw the videos of her at Glastonbury and heard Poker Face acoustic. That was when I first realised; this girl's good.

 

Secondly, when it comes to the issue of her being a copycat, I think it's unfair to generalise based on one video. Yes, it is clear that this video is heavily influenced by Madonna, but which of her other videos apart from about 10% in Telephone, in which she just happens to look like Madonna. But there is nothing wrong with being inspired by someone. I doubt every thought going through GaGa's head is 'how should I copy her next??'. It is unfair to have that opinion of her. Although she is a little before my time, I am sure Madonna also had her influences and copied others also. It's horrible as well to compare her to Grace Jones and Roisin Murphy just because she wears weird clothes. Not everyone who wears something that is out-of-the-ordinary is copying Grace Jones. I can admit a lot of it is done for attention, but that is just part of the concept of 'GaGa'.

 

Finally, while some have, not all GaGa fans believe her to be 100% original. But to say she is completely unoriginal is also unfair. What GaGa is doing has, in part, been done before, but she does have the ability to bring such ideas to the 21st Century. Clearly, she's quite good at it. I am sure also, to those who think that she will burn out, or hit a brick wall, that GaGa has those exact same fears. Every artist does. I accept that there is a chance she could flop at anytime. I also accept that there is a chance that she could become a pop phenomenon to span decades, like Madonna and Michael Jackson have been. There is nothing to say that either couldn't happen. To say, however, that there will never be another Madonna or Michael Jackson is pure $h!te (and I don't swear). What a pessimistic view of the world to think that there will never be anyone else as good as those, or with their longevity, in the history of the world. I am sure at the time of Frank Sinatra, the Beatles and Elvis, they were also saying that no-one would ever be as big. Then came Michael. Again, no-one will ever be as big. Then came Madonna. No-one will ever be as big as those... Perhaps then along came GaGa? To discuss the future is something that we should not do. No-one will ever be able to predict the trends in musical style and popularity over the next few decades. That is silly. Why don't we all just live in the present and accept GaGa for what she is right now (the biggest singer in the world AT THIS TIME) and accept Madonna for what she is right now (a true icon) and see what happens. To the GaGa fans - she is not an icon. She has only been around for two years and while her rise to fame has been phenomenal, we have to see how much longevity her career has before we give her the coveted 'icon' label.

 

With regard to Alejandro - love it. Video is fantastic. Would love it to go to number 1, but given the huge album sales I think top 5 is most realistic.

 

PS - to those who say that we cannot have a true grasp on how much of a copycat she is because we are young, perhaps you should just let us have our GaGa for being something brand new in TODAY'S market. Historically, not even Michael Jackson was truly original. He was just the best at what he did. At this moment in time, so is GaGa.

Lady Gaga is incredibly musically and artistically talented, you can't deny that

Secondly, when it comes to the issue of her being a copycat, I think it's unfair to generalise based on one video. Yes, it is clear that this video is heavily influenced by Madonna, but which of her other videos apart from about 10% in Telephone, in which she just happens to look like Madonna. But there is nothing wrong with being inspired by someone. I doubt every thought going through GaGa's head is 'how should I copy her next??'. It is unfair to have that opinion of her. Although she is a little before my time, I am sure Madonna also had her influences and copied others also. It's horrible as well to compare her to Grace Jones and Roisin Murphy just because she wears weird clothes. Not everyone who wears something that is out-of-the-ordinary is copying Grace Jones. I can admit a lot of it is done for attention, but that is just part of the concept of 'GaGa'.

Example, example, example. There are many more, that I can't be bothered finding (some trivial, some blatently obvious). Her copying isn't based off one video, the copy cat rumours have been going for the entire time she's been out. Madonna, Grace Jones and Roisin Murphy have all commented on it.

Lady Gaga is incredibly musically and artistically talented, you can't deny that

I have never denyed that. She is very talented at playing the piano, but her voice isn't incredible, she has a limited range and stamina, but she's got an alright voice. She's an alright songwriter, a lot of her lyrics aren't fantastic, but I don't take away the fact that she does write her own songs. And a lot of her designs etc... come from her team. I'm not giving her all the credit for all her designs, because she works with a whole team, and we don't know how much she does, and how much her Haus of Gaga team do. Despite the fact that a lot of the set and outfit designs are "inspired" from previous artists.

People need to realise that Madonna was revolutionary in what she has acheived and the boundaries she pushed, especially in video. GaGa has achieved a lot in two years, but it is ingnorant to put her on the same pedestal as Madonna. GaGa is yet to make a career defining album, although I am confident she will; she is only 24 years old, and has made one album, she has got a lot of time yet to grow as an artist and discover her individuality. That being said, the Alejandro video is extremely ambitious, and in a time where mainstream pop music videos are becoming more and more generic by the day, it should be applauded for that fact alone, and on the issue of "copying" their is no doubt there are a lot of nods to Madonna, and I'm sure she is not stupid enough to think she would 'get away with it too', it's all deliberate. The video itself was beautifully put together regardless, and despite the Madonna 'rip-offs' homages' whatever you want to call it, the video has its own messages and concept (no, I'm not saying it's a completely original concept). Plus, and I am talking in general here, nothing, absolutely nothing, is created out of a vacuum.

Edited June 12, 201015 yr by Daniel Gleek

As I stated before, I used to be a big fan, but I've gone off her completely at the moment. I'm also very big on music in general, so I know a lot about most artists.

 

They seem obvious to you though, a lot of people don't agree with that, so whilst they seem obvious to you, they seem obviously incorrect to others. You can't pass off your opinions as facts, just because they seem obvious to you, that's not how it works.

 

No she's not. She's a pop star who is recycling what past artists have done, and bringing it to the present. She is not a musical icon, Lady Gaga herself said that it was crazy that people are calling her that, because she's not. And no, that's not what my post says. They're not trying to do that, they're just trying to do something different to what they may usually do (change their style, like Madonna etc...) and straight away, Gaga's crazy little "monsters" call everyone copycats. This whole Christina Aguilera thing is ludicrous, seeing as a lot of things that Gaga's done looks exactly like what Christina did when she was younger. They appear to be blind to the obvious facts, and it's annoying as hell. She's not changed pop music in any way, it's stayed exactly the same, just with Gaga's music now being the most prominent. She hasn't created a new musical style or anything like that, so she's not changed pop music. At all.

 

Gaga is blatantly copying Madonna. There's loads of articles going round at the moment, because Madonna is angry about Gaga's "Alejandro" video, with all the things she's done in the video, previously done by Madonna in her other videos. The gun bra for one, stood out for me. It looked like a blatant rip off of Madonna's cone bra, but they're talking more about the religion stuff. There are plenty of articles, sites, with examples of Gaga's copying "inspiration" from Madonna. And like Arrs has just said, Lady Gaga is not unique, everything she is doing has been done before, you just weren't around to see it - nor was I, but I've looked at all the past musical icons.

 

Yes they do. I know a lot of people who think Lady Gaga is incredibly original, she's created this and that, no-one's been like her before... yadda, yadda, yadda. And it's saddening, because there are much more talented people out there, and in the past, that aren't getting anywhere near as much credit as Lady Gaga is. She's very talented at playing the piano, she's an alright singer, and she's an alright songwriter. I don't like how everyone hails her as the second coming. It's wrong. She's not unique, she's just unusual.

 

Gaga won't last twenty years, I don't think. The only artists that have lasted for even ten years are either incredibly gifted (vocally), or are able to change their styles to keep them relevant. Gaga is stuck once the electro-pop craze fizzles out. Her crazy outfits won't be cared about anymore, and people will be over her. She's not able to change that much, she's in one box, and she's going to struggle to get out of it.

 

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea i think they are facts. I am aware they are my opinions but they seem OBVIOUS, they arent facts no but they seem OBVIOUS.

Unfortunately (well maybe fortunately thinking about it..) i dont have as much time as you to go in to such hugeeeeee detail, what i will say is gaga will keep selling, keep developing and she will be here for a long time to come. Remember i told you, gaga will be a legend & a music icon. Thats all from me folks. B)

Edited June 12, 201015 yr by Halo

You are freely allowed to post your opinions, but making digs at someone's favourite artist, just because they said something against your favourite artist is something that isn't allowed on this forum, and it's rather pathetic. It was immature and completely unnecessary, there was no need to bring Kylie up, and you would not have brought her up, had she not been in the poster's signature.

 

If you disagreed with his points, disagree with them, don't resort to bashing his favourite artist, just because he doesn't like a video made by yours.

 

firstly, i didn't have a dig at anyone...merely stating quite a common thought that Kylie Minogue has not done too badly being one step behind Madonna over the years. I'm sure she'd be the first to acknowledge this.

 

secondly, where have i implied whom is my favourite artist??

 

so your final point is irrelevant on both counts re "bashing"

 

i'm lucky enough to appreciate all genres of music, as opposed to sitting in one camp!!

 

"GaGa does nothing but copy Madonna, and it's despicable"

 

Well that is completely incorrect for a start.

1. Gaga writes all her own songs (madonna doesnt)

2. Gaga is a better singer

3. Gaga is a lot more creative & unique then madonna.

4. Gaga has better songs then madonna.

5. Gaga has better videos then madonna.

 

List goes on. The media may present madonna as a legend and the best thing ever in music but seriously, make up your own mind, she CLEARLY isnt.

(and this is coming from someone who isnt biased as i am not really a massive fan of either artist just stating the obvious in my eyes.)

I don't really want to involve in a pointless argument, but what is obvious for you Halo? (btw you remind me of another poster btw, isn't this an alias???)

 

your list:

1. that is a fact

2. that is a matter of opinion, because how do you measure it? 'it is obvious' is not an evidence of it, so truely your opinion. Although I have to say I agree with you (and I'm a Madonna fan)

3. This is again your opinion. Where is the evidence for that?

4. Again your opinion

5. Again your opinion, in fact you can't compare two artists from different eras. As in the time Madonna was huge (in the 1990s) the technic wasn't in a high as it is now. And anyway what's the problem with it, if Gaga is influenced by Madonna?

 

There is no problem to express your opinion but to say "it is obvious" is not true, as how do you prove that? your "obvious" is your opinion in my eyes ;)

 

Please respect other members opinion, again I have the feeling you're here to tell off and wind up people.

Ben, i havent said they arent opinions. I am aware they are opinions they just seem obvious to me, obviously not everyone will agree that would be silly to think people would.

Not once did i present them as facts not sure where people have got the idea i think they are facts :unsure:

All opinions should be respected, the world would be a boring place if everyone agreed and liked the same things.

And as you say it is such a pointless argument :lol:

Ben, i havent said they arent opinions. I am aware they are opinions they just seem obvious to me, obviously not everyone will agree that would be silly to think people would.

Not once did i present them as facts not sure where people have got the idea i think they are facts :unsure:

That's why I said to use the word "obvious" is dangerous ;)

:lol: Maybe it is, i guess. It really does appear to be obvious though ;)

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea i think they are facts. I am aware they are my opinions but they seem OBVIOUS, they arent facts no but they seem OBVIOUS.

Unfortunately (well maybe fortunately thinking about it..) i dont have as much time as you to go in to such hugeeeeee detail, what i will say is gaga will keep selling, keep developing and she will be here for a long time to come. Remember i told you, gaga will be a legend & a music icon. Thats all from me folks. B)

The idea that you keep saying that they are "obvious" suggests that you view those points as facts. All I'm saying is that they may be obvious to you, because they are your opinions, but not everyone shares them, so they don't view them as obvious. We're having a discussion, and if I'm going to be in a discussion, I will give my full opinion. That post took me about 10 minutes maximum, I wasn't sat there for an hour typing it out or anything like that.

 

Actually, none of that is facts either. You don't know whether she'll keep selling and be here for a long time to come. I think she's going to flop some time soon, and the music genre craze will shift, and she'll be left behind.

 

firstly, i didn't have a dig at anyone...merely stating quite a common thought that Kylie Minogue has not done too badly being one step behind Madonna over the years. I'm sure she'd be the first to acknowledge this.

 

secondly, where have i implied whom is my favourite artist??

 

so your final point is irrelevant on both counts re "bashing"

 

i'm lucky enough to appreciate all genres of music, as opposed to sitting in one camp!!

Yes you did. Other posters have noticed too. You immediately went for the poster's favourite artist, because you knew that would get him riled up. Once again, you wouldn't have even considered bringing her up, had he not been in the poster's signature.

 

You didn't say who your favourite artist is, but the way you shot straight back at the poster (by going at their favourite artist) sort of implied it to me. I'm most likely wrong there, but that's what I assumed from your post.

 

Erm... no it's not? You went after his favourite artist, because you were annoyed with what the poster said. That was blatantly obvious. You were bashing. And don't make that assumption about me, you have no idea of my musical taste. I like a wide variety of musical genres, thank you very much.

:lol: mrlovett please do something more productive, arguing like this is going on a road to absolutely nowhere..

:lol: mrlovett please do something more productive, arguing like this is going on a road to absolutely nowhere..

Are you being serious? We're having a discussion... How incredibly immature.

Okay :unsure: this 'discussion' (hardly) is going nowhere. As ben said it's just pointless.

oh please - this is a post from someone who hasn't the first clue about musical heritage.

 

Without Madonna - there simply wouldn't even BE a Lady GaGa.

 

I personally think Lady GaGa is easily the greatest new popstar to come along in the last decade or so. But I have to agree with Russ. Implying Lady GaGa is better than Madonna is like saying Oasis were better than The Beatles = laughable.

 

Right now her Madonna meets David Bowie's female Ziggy Stardust act is a breath of fresh air amongst too many one dimensional popstars around at the moment (and you have to give her kudos for bringing dance/pop back to the top end of the US charts; and 1970s/80s art rock visual imagery back to videos/concerts) open up the potential for her to be one of the all time great music artists. But it is how she kicks on with her second/third album onwards will be the key. If she is still a significant artist by the end of this decade then one can start to make those comments. At the moment all she has done is reinvent the wheel.

Okay :unsure: this 'discussion' (hardly) is going nowhere. As ben said it's just pointless.

I know. You slot nicely into the "delusional Gaga fans" section, so reasoning with you is like talking to a wall. If you want to think that Gaga is more musically iconic than Madonna, feel free. It just proves everything I'm sorry as correct.

So you are now stating what you said as correct, so, factual? After the whole 'discussion' on opinions and facts?

You think you are correct, its an opinion.

(also as i said i am not biased as i am not a massive fan of either madonna or gaga)

Edited June 12, 201015 yr by Halo

So you are now stating what you said as correct, so, factual? After the whole 'discussion' on opinions and facts?

You think you are correct, its an opinion.

(also as i said i am not biased as i am not a massive fan of either madonna or gaga)

Correct, regarding you, yes. And you're clearly biased, everyone here had read it, and if you judge by everyone elses' posts, no-one agrees with you. I'm stopping this discussion with you now, because it's like talking to a wall. You're set in your thoughts, despite many posters being very confused in your thoughts.

Moving on as this is just going to nowhere & is just pointless.

 

I was disapointed by the video, as the song itself feels like a summer song, but the video is so dark and confusing.