I fully believe that Israeli forces acted in self defence

 

There was around 800 on the ships and around 10 died so if Israeli forces wanted they could easily have killed hundreds so that was never their intention, but if they come under attack with live ammo, iron bars and knives course they are going to bloody defend themselves.

 

Like I said in one of my early posts if I went to say the gates of Downing St or Heathrow Airport terminal 3 and went for an armed policeman with a knife or iron bar I WOULD be shot so I don't see what Israeli forces have done wrong here.

 

There would be 0 dead if the thugs hadn't attacked the soldiers, their fault like it would be my fault with the armed policeman analogy.

 

Also there are strong links between the IIH who are one of the organisers of this shipment and Hamas/Al Qaeda

 

I am not a troll I have been banned before over Israel so it is a subject very close to my heart

 

 

A police officer would actually have a recognised mandate for doing what they do, and if they entered your home, for example, they would likely have a search warrant signed by a judge. Why should a ship sailing in international waters accept the dubious "authority" of a foreign army that has no such mandate given to them, or a signed search warrant...? Answer, they dont, in fact they have every right in the world to resist a bunch of armed people trying to board their ship who may or may not be pirates.....

And another thing that annoys me too, Turkey is being portrayed in the media today as full of harmless peaceful people who wouldn't say boo to a goose when the reality is that Turkey has one of the worst human rights records in the WORLD and has massacred more Kurds in cold blood in Iraq than Chemical Ali did so I don't know why people find it so hard to believe that Turkey was helping Palestinian terror groups and attacked Israeli soldiers, Turkey is one of the most vicious and vile nations on this planet with huge amounts of blood on its hands over the last few decades.

 

Sounds an awful lot like Israel too though dunnit....?

 

And, like Isreal, Turkey is a democracy.... Well, it must be, they have a voting system, opposition parties, a representative parliament, etc, etc.... JUST like Israel..... :rolleyes:

 

Nothing you've said in this arguement has addressed the simple fact that Israel has acted in the most cowardly and hypocritical way at every point since its inception... Israel is a serial treaty breaker, it has broken the terms of the borders drawn up in 1967, it broke the Nuclear non-proliferation act (and you wonder why it is that Iran wants nukes, simple really, cos YOUR LOT broke the treaty along with the Yanks and procured nuclear weapons by duplicity and against all the UN declarations on nuclear weapons..).. The way the Zionist supremacists you LOVE so much have acted towards the Palestinians can be summed up in this analogy....

 

Imagine new neighbours move in next door, then all of a sudden, during the night they break into your house and say "hey, my great, great, great, great, great grandparents used to own this house, but they left it, thing is though we kindof like the living room, so you've got to fukk off now or we'll shoot you....". Well, sorry, but as you've already pointed out, if anyone came into YOUR home and did this, you'd stick them with a bowie knife.... Well, errrr, same principle here with the Zionists (particularly the "Settlers", a bunch of armed, Jewish Supremacist loonies who somehow think they're entitled because an obscure passage in the Old Testament grants them authority to just take what they want somehow... Yeah, right.....). I would say that Tyron is absolutely correct when he mentions the 1967 treaty, if Israel is entitled to anything, it's that and ONLY that, anything else, they're trespassers and people have a right to resist them... By any and all means necessary, INCLUDING "terrorism" (which I dont believe it even is, how can you call a repressed people who fight back against an injust, aggressive, expansionist state to be "terrorists", they're GUERILLAS, but they're not terrorists... The only real "terrorism" I see here is that committed by the Israeli State, and since you've just openly stated that Islamic Fundamentalists were justified to strike back against the US/UK occupation of Iraq, then by extension the Palestinians, Egyptians, Syrians, etc are entitled to strike back against the Israeli occupation of Gaza, The Lebanon, etc...). -_-

And another thing that annoys me too, Turkey is being portrayed in the media today as full of harmless peaceful people who wouldn't say boo to a goose when the reality is that Turkey has one of the worst human rights records in the WORLD and has massacred more Kurds in cold blood in Iraq than Chemical Ali did so I don't know why people find it so hard to believe that Turkey was helping Palestinian terror groups and attacked Israeli soldiers, Turkey is one of the most vicious and vile nations on this planet with huge amounts of blood on its hands over the last few decades.

Er, because Turkey are Israel's basically only ally in the region? :manson:

Sounds an awful lot like Israel too though dunnit....?

 

And, like Isreal, Turkey is a democracy.... Well, it must be, they have a voting system, opposition parties, a representative parliament, etc, etc.... JUST like Israel..... :rolleyes:

 

Nothing you've said in this arguement has addressed the simple fact that Israel has acted in the most cowardly and hypocritical way at every point since its inception... Israel is a serial treaty breaker, it has broken the terms of the borders drawn up in 1967, it broke the Nuclear non-proliferation act (and you wonder why it is that Iran wants nukes, simple really, cos YOUR LOT broke the treaty along with the Yanks and procured nuclear weapons by duplicity and against all the UN declarations on nuclear weapons..).. The way the Zionist supremacists you LOVE so much have acted towards the Palestinians can be summed up in this analogy....

 

Imagine new neighbours move in next door, then all of a sudden, during the night they break into your house and say "hey, my great, great, great, great, great grandparents used to own this house, but they left it, thing is though we kindof like the living room, so you've got to fukk off now or we'll shoot you....". Well, sorry, but as you've already pointed out, if anyone came into YOUR home and did this, you'd stick them with a bowie knife.... Well, errrr, same principle here with the Zionists (particularly the "Settlers", a bunch of armed, Jewish Supremacist loonies who somehow think they're entitled because an obscure passage in the Old Testament grants them authority to just take what they want somehow... Yeah, right.....). I would say that Tyron is absolutely correct when he mentions the 1967 treaty, if Israel is entitled to anything, it's that and ONLY that, anything else, they're trespassers and people have a right to resist them... By any and all means necessary, INCLUDING "terrorism" (which I dont believe it even is, how can you call a repressed people who fight back against an injust, aggressive, expansionist state to be "terrorists", they're GUERILLAS, but they're not terrorists... The only real "terrorism" I see here is that committed by the Israeli State, and since you've just openly stated that Islamic Fundamentalists were justified to strike back against the US/UK occupation of Iraq, then by extension the Palestinians, Egyptians, Syrians, etc are entitled to strike back against the Israeli occupation of Gaza, The Lebanon, etc...). -_-

 

The UK/USA were deliberately slaughtering civilians it was an established part of their game plan, sending B-52's to carpet bomb residential areas was with the sole intention of having as much civilian loss of life as possible, pre meditated murder, then the degrading treatment of POW's in Abu Ghirab and Basra by UK/US forces IMHO made UK and USA civilians fair game.

 

However, Israel's plans is not about genocide, mass murder etc, Israeli forces could wipe out every living organism on the West Bank and Gaza quite easily if it so wished but the Israelis instead go for what they consider to be "military targets" such as Hamas leaders, Hamas fighters, weapons smugglers etc, innocent civilians do inevitably get killed in the crossfire and through being used as human shields but Israel don't TARGET civilians like UK and America did in shock and awe, Blair and Bush wanted cold blooded mass murder Israel seek to neutralise threats to its security, big difference.

 

The UK and USA deserve all they get as they set out on a path of civillian genocide and mass murder, Israel don't so we are talking chalk and cheese here.

Happy to answer it

 

Britain got what it deserved in 7/7 and the other incident as it played an active role in the deliberate mass murder of 26,000 Iraqi civilians, civilians the intended target of Shock and Awe and our government played at active part in it so are fair game for revenge attacks along with America, Blair and Bush should be facing genocide charges in The Hague BUT you can't compare that with Israel in Gaza and West Bank, Israeli military actions are aimed at killing terrorists and weapons smugglers, they have targeted operations to eliminate these terrorists, sometimes when they blow up a house to kill a terrorist others may be caught up in it but try are not the intended target unlike Shock and Awe, civilian deaths in Palestine are collateral damage what we did in Iraq was premeditated mass murder of civilians so we deserved fully any revenge attacks.

 

As for the question of my family being killed in 7/7 human nature would mean a desire for revenge, I would have dedicated my life to assassinating Blair so i would have blamed Blair for my family death.

 

To sum up we and America deliberately murdered civilians in cold blood Israel target terrorists but sometimes civilians get killed in the crossfire or they kill civilians in self defence who are attacking them with rocks.

 

You didn't answer my question. If one of your family members died in Islamic extremist attack, would you say your family members DESERVED it, because we re-elected Blair, just as in your view Palestinians deserve to die because they elected Hamas?

You didn't answer my question. If one of your family members died in Islamic extremist attack, would you say your family members DESERVED it, because we re-elected Blair, just as in your view Palestinians deserve to die because they elected Hamas?

 

And as I have already explained....

 

If one of them died in an islamic extremist attack I would not blame the extremists I would blame BLAIR and I would not rest until I had shot the c**t between the eyes, deserving is not a word I would use I would just say I understand why the Islamic extremists did what they did as Blair was jointly responsible for the execution of 26,000 islamists at the hands of B-52's

 

However Israel do not have a policy of deliberately targetting civilians, they target extremists and their leaders and sadly innocents get caught up in the crossfire

And as I have already explained....

 

If one of them died in an islamic extremist attack I would not blame the extremists I would blame BLAIR and I would not rest until I had shot the c**t between the eyes, deserving is not a word I would use I would just say I understand why the Islamic extremists did what they did as Blair was jointly responsible for the execution of 26,000 islamists at the hands of B-52's

 

So you wouldn't think your family members deserved it? In that case, why do Gazans deserve it just because their people elected Hamas?

You didn't answer my question. If one of your family members died in Islamic extremist attack, would you say your family members DESERVED it, because we re-elected Blair, just as in your view Palestinians deserve to die because they elected Hamas?

 

I don't want to see Palestinians killed unless they are Hamas leaders, Hamas terrorists or smugglers of rockets and arms, I simply want to see the Palestinian threat to Israel neutralised which means Israel expelling all the Palestinians from West Bank and Gaza and Israel annexing the territory, Palestinian territory is used to fire rocket after rocket into Israel, the Palestinians can go live in Egypt and Jordan in safety.

And as I have already explained....

 

If one of them died in an islamic extremist attack I would not blame the extremists I would blame BLAIR and I would not rest until I had shot the c**t between the eyes, deserving is not a word I would use I would just say I understand why the Islamic extremists did what they did as Blair was jointly responsible for the execution of 26,000 islamists at the hands of B-52's

 

However Israel do not have a policy of deliberately targetting civilians, they target extremists and their leaders and sadly innocents get caught up in the crossfire

And your only defence against various anti-terrorism and other charges for those remarks would be "It's only a small internet forum, nobody could possibly take those threats seriously." That being the case, why bother making them?

So you wouldn't think your family members deserved it? In that case, why do Gazans deserve it just because their people elected Hamas?

 

Has Suedehead2 hacked into your account or something ? you are being more pedantic and nit picking than him today :mellow:

 

I have said again and again that Gazans are not a target of the Israelis unless they are engaged in terrorist activities or smuggling weapons, the way you are going on you would think that the Israelis are deliberately targetting ordinary civilians which they are NOT so your example of 7/7 and Gaza is a poor one

And your only defence against various anti-terrorism and other charges for those remarks would be "It's only a small internet forum, nobody could possibly take those threats seriously." That being the case, why bother making them?

 

Hypothetical situation as none of my family have been victims of an islamic attack and the odds are heavily against the fact they ever will be, however if they WERE then I stand by what I said

I don't want to see Palestinians killed unless they are Hamas leaders, Hamas terrorists or smugglers of rockets and arms, I simply want to see the Palestinian threat to Israel neutralised which means Israel expelling all the Palestinians from West Bank and Gaza and Israel annexing the territory, Palestinian territory is used to fire rocket after rocket into Israel, the Palestinians can go live in Egypt and Jordan in safety.

So you don't want to see Palestinians killed unless they disagree with you? That's the sort of attitude adopted by the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein to name just a few. Well, if you feel comfortable in their company, fine. Fortunately, most of us don't.

Hypothetical situation as none of my family have been victims of an islamic attack and the odds are heavily against the fact they ever will be, however if they WERE then I stand by what I said

Better watch out for the knock on the door then

So you don't want to see Palestinians killed unless they disagree with you? That's the sort of attitude adopted by the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein to name just a few. Well, if you feel comfortable in their company, fine. Fortunately, most of us don't.

 

Whatever, I think my role in this thread has run its course, I got banned over Israel/Palestine before and I don't want the same to happen again

There were seven Irish citizens caught up in this and they were sent to Israel and forced to sign documents stating that they had entered Israel illegally, despite being nowhere near Israeli waters.... The Irish boat (1 of the 6 involved) was a day behind the main one that got attacked and is now north of Libya. AFAIK, it's going to go to Gaza regardless. And the people here have called for the Israeli embassy in Dublin to be shut down. We've had enough and we do not want Israel to get away with what they are doing and what they have done. They used some Irish passports to assassinate the Palestinian guy back in January, too. This cannot continue. If our government had any balls they would officially boycott Israel and shut down the embassy immediately.

I don't want to see Palestinians killed unless they are Hamas leaders, Hamas terrorists or smugglers of rockets and arms,

 

Then why did you say this:

 

Palestine is a terrorist state that elected a terrorist group to represent them (Hamas), if the Palestinians wanted peace they should not have elected terrorists as leaders

Also...

 

I have said again and again that Gazans are not a target of the Israelis unless they are engaged in terrorist activities or smuggling weapons, the way you are going on you would think that the Israelis are deliberately targetting ordinary civilians which they are NOT so your example of 7/7 and Gaza is a poor one

 

I hate to break it to you, but the Israelis DO target innocent citizens. During the Gaza war, there was one incident where Israeli soldiers herded around 100 civilians into a UN building for "safety"... then shelled it several hours later.

Then why did you say this:

 

Also...

I hate to break it to you, but the Israelis DO target innocent citizens. During the Gaza war, there was one incident where Israeli soldiers herded around 100 civilians into a UN building for "safety"... then shelled it several hours later.

 

Your little fishing expedition has so far got nothing more than tadpoles :rolleyes: keep fishing

 

I have never said that all Palestinians are terrorists, your quotes of me seem to suggest you are implying that I think that when I think nothing of the sort

 

Hamas are terrorists, it does not mean that everyone that voted Hamas is a terrorist any more than everyone who voted BNP is a neo nazi

 

I have no issue with peaceful Palestinians who quietly go about their every day business I DO have issues with the extremists and consider them fair game for Israel

"if the Palestinians wanted peace they should not have elected terrorists as leaders" clearly implies you think they deserve it. It can be easily flipped round to "if the British wanted peace they should not have elected a war criminal as a leader".

 

But anyway, the reason the Gazans elected Hamas is because Israel drove them to it, due to the disgusting way Israelis treat Palestinians; they saw that having the moderate Abbas got them nowhere, so they felt they had no other choice but to go for a more extreme option. When humans are driven to dire situations, they do desperate things. When Germany was in a depression, they elected fascists. Just last weekend, Iceland's capital, driven to despair by the economic crisis, elected "the Best Party", which pledged to build an Icelandic Disneyland and give all residents a polar bear.

"if the Palestinians wanted peace they should not have elected terrorists as leaders" clearly implies you think they deserve it. It can be easily flipped round to "if the British wanted peace they should not have elected a war criminal as a leader".

 

But anyway, the reason the Gazans elected Hamas is because Israel drove them to it, due to the disgusting way Israelis treat Palestinians; they saw that having the moderate Abbas got them nowhere, so they felt they had no other choice but to go for a more extreme option. When humans are driven to dire situations, they do desperate things. When Germany was in a depression, they elected fascists. Just last weekend, Iceland's capital, driven to despair by the economic crisis, elected "the Best Party", which pledged to build an Icelandic Disneyland and give all residents a polar bear.

Additionally because of the rife corruption within Fatah, which prevented anything from getting done - they were forced into extreme measures, but again, Craig can't exactly claim that Hamas being elected was an extreme move when they offered an olive branch upon being elected!

Just been watching the footage on ITV news

 

Clear evidence of soldiers being brutally attacked with clubs and a soldier being thrown overboard, those doing the attacking deserved to be shot judging by that footage. Self defence by the Israelis