June 7, 201015 yr No citizens who are not terrorists are TARGETED by Israeli forces, Palestinian terrorists are notorious for using human shields so 20 can get killed along with the terrorist or some civilians can get caught in crossfire or some twats can find it funny to throw rocks at soldiers so inevitably there is civilian casualties but they are not the target, terrorists are If a terrorist holes up in a building with 30 hostages/human shields does it make sense to just let him live and leave him alone to kill Israelis ? course not, it is necessary to still blow up the building So all of those thousands that have died were "human shields" and were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Give me a break. I don't support the killing of the Israeli people, but at least I can condemn both sides and see them for what they are. Both states have done wrong, but how somebody can't see that Israel is just as provocative and uses the same amount of terrorism is beyond me.
June 7, 201015 yr Author No citizens who are not terrorists are TARGETED by Israeli forces, In the 2009 Gaza war, Israeli troops shepherded around 100 Gazan civilians into a UN building, then shelled it several hours later. I have a feeling I've already written that in this thread, but unsurprisigly, I don't remember you responding...
June 7, 201015 yr So all of those thousands that have died were "human shields" and were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Give me a break. I don't support the killing of the Israeli people, but at least I can condemn both sides and see them for what they are. Both states have done wrong, but how somebody can't see that Israel is just as provocative and uses the same amount of terrorism is beyond me. Death totals that are put about by left wing media organisations, pressure groups, anti Israel organisations with an agenda and other groups never bear any resemblance to the actual total, I remember once the Guardian put up a death total after fighting in a Palestinian camp and the total that was put about was 3 times that of the final total confirmed by the UN, if a media organisation says 500 dead assume it to be about 150 Even the BBC the other day reported 18 dead on that ship and the final total was 9
June 7, 201015 yr No citizens who are not terrorists are TARGETED by Israeli forces, So are you saying they're just really bad shots then?
June 7, 201015 yr In the 2009 Gaza war, Israeli troops shepherded around 100 Gazan civilians into a UN building, then shelled it several hours later. I have a feeling I've already written that in this thread, but unsurprisigly, I don't remember you responding... I had never heard of that incident and was/am not in a position to comment on it, I suspect again that the death toll is exaggerated by the left wing media
June 7, 201015 yr So are you saying they're just really bad shots then? Shells go astray and hit the wrong target, missiles can hit wrong targets, it happens, we have done it many a time, the yanks have done it more times than can care to remember, its one of those things If Israel had an agenda of genocide they could wipe out the entire population of Gaza and West Bank in a day
June 7, 201015 yr I had never heard of that incident and was/am not in a position to comment on it, I suspect again that the death toll is exaggerated by the left wing media Oh no, that sort of media that by its very nature has ordinary human beings as its main priority. How irresponsible. -_-
June 7, 201015 yr If a terrorist holes up in a building with 30 hostages/human shields does it make sense to just let him live and leave him alone to kill Israelis ? course not, it is necessary to still blow up the building War Crime. That IS targeting civilians every way as much as you described shock and awe tactics. Essentially you're saying 'there are innocent people in their but as long as we kill one bad guy who cares about them?'
June 7, 201015 yr Shells go astray and hit the wrong target, missiles can hit wrong targets, it happens, we have done it many a time, the yanks have done it more times than can care to remember, its one of those things If Israel had an agenda of genocide they could wipe out the entire population of Gaza and West Bank in a day Except if they did even the US would stop backing them
June 7, 201015 yr War Crime. That IS targeting civilians every way as much as you described shock and awe tactics. Essentially you're saying 'there are innocent people in their but as long as we kill one bad guy who cares about them?' If there is direct intelligence that a dangerous terrorist is in a particular building then it is irresponsible not to take him out regardless of if he is the only one in the building or not, Palestinian terrorist leaders used to also hole out in hospitals, baby milk factories etc, other deaths to take out a terrorist leader are unfortunate but a necessary evil Edited June 7, 201015 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber
June 7, 201015 yr If there is direct intelligence that a dangerous terrorist is in a particular building then it is irresponsible not to take him out regardless of if he is the only one in the building or not, Palestinian terrorist leaders used to also hole out in hospitals, baby milk factories etc, other deaths to take out a terrorist leader are unfortunate but a necessary evil There are better ways than murdering innocents. If you kill 30 inoocent men, women and children for every single 'terrorist' leader you simply create more willing to die for the cause. Israel are killing everyone anyway regardless so many will simply fight back. What's even more ludicrous is when Hamas came to power they offered recognition and talks but Israel refused. It seems they prefer killing people...
June 7, 201015 yr There are better ways than murdering innocents. If you kill 30 inoocent men, women and children for every single 'terrorist' leader you simply create more willing to die for the cause. Israel are killing everyone anyway regardless so many will simply fight back. What's even more ludicrous is when Hamas came to power they offered recognition and talks but Israel refused. It seems they prefer killing people... Suppose you were an American helicopter gunship commander in Iraq war, you get intelligence that Chemical Ali is in a restaurant having a meal and you get confirmed sightings, the restaurant is packed with say 70 diners, the glass is bullet proof and the only way to take out Chemical Ali is by wiping out the entire restaurant with a missile from the gunship, would you give the order to fire ? I know I would in a heartbeat and sensibly Israeli commanders have done the same thing with the top Hamas people
June 7, 201015 yr Suppose you were an American helicopter gunship commander in Iraq war, you get intelligence that Chemical Ali is in a restaurant having a meal and you get confirmed sightings, the restaurant is packed with say 70 diners, the glass is bullet proof and the only way to take out Chemical Ali is by wiping out the entire restaurant with a missile from the gunship, would you give the order to fire ? I know I would in a heartbeat and sensibly Israeli commanders have done the same thing with the top Hamas people And then you should be tried and convicted of a war crime. Do you not understand that these actions are illegal. But then the Israeli government obviously do not understand the notion of legality.
June 7, 201015 yr Suppose you were an American helicopter gunship commander in Iraq war, you get intelligence that Chemical Ali is in a restaurant having a meal and you get confirmed sightings, the restaurant is packed with say 70 diners, the glass is bullet proof and the only way to take out Chemical Ali is by wiping out the entire restaurant with a missile from the gunship, would you give the order to fire ? I know I would in a heartbeat and sensibly Israeli commanders have done the same thing with the top Hamas people What kind of restaurant has bulletproof glass? Surely you could storm the restaurant with less civilian casualties than bombing it? :wacko:
June 7, 201015 yr Suppose you were an American helicopter gunship commander in Iraq war, you get intelligence that Chemical Ali is in a restaurant having a meal and you get confirmed sightings, the restaurant is packed with say 70 diners, the glass is bullet proof and the only way to take out Chemical Ali is by wiping out the entire restaurant with a missile from the gunship, would you give the order to fire ? I know I would in a heartbeat and sensibly Israeli commanders have done the same thing with the top Hamas people And if Bin Laden or a Hamas leader somehow - very unlikely but let's just continue with the hypothetical questions - got into the Knesset when it was packed with MPs. Would you blow the whole place up?
June 7, 201015 yr What kind of restaurant has bulletproof glass? Surely you could storm the restaurant with less civilian casualties than bombing it? :wacko: A lot of the ones used in Iraq by government ministers were, most were owned by Ba'ath people, that situation kinda happened, it wasn't Chemical Ali it was a senior figure and the Americans bombed a restaurant with 47 deaths but I was giving that scenario as an example of what Israeli commanders have to face to take out top Hamas people
June 7, 201015 yr And if Bin Laden or a Hamas leader somehow - very unlikely but let's just continue with the hypothetical questions - got into the Knesset when it was packed with MPs. Would you blow the whole place up? Depends on how "high value" the target is, if it is someone right up on the wanted list and the chance to take them out may well be a one off then yes, whatever it takes
June 7, 201015 yr Israel's Sayaret special forces are amongst the best in the world and could easily go in and take out individuals. Once they know an individuals location tacking them is relatively easy and a special sqaud or a sniper could easily be deployed quickly and with relatively few civilian casualties if any. Levelling the building is at best, rash and unnecessary and at it's worst a war crime. Also you haven't addressed the issue of how you can reconcile your assertion that Operation Iraqi Freedom 'allowed' for civilian collateral damage and is a war crime fr which you suggest Bush and Blair should be tried yet when Israel do exactly the same (which you endorse fully) it isn't.
June 7, 201015 yr Author Wow. Before I just thought BA Baracus was a tosser, but now I'm starting to think he's literally insane.
June 7, 201015 yr Israel's Sayaret special forces are amongst the best in the world and could easily go in and take out individuals. Once they know an individuals location tacking them is relatively easy and a special sqaud or a sniper could easily be deployed quickly and with relatively few civilian casualties if any. Levelling the building is at best, rash and unnecessary and at it's worst a war crime. Also you haven't addressed the issue of how you can reconcile your assertion that Operation Iraqi Freedom 'allowed' for civilian collateral damage and is a war crime fr which you suggest Bush and Blair should be tried yet when Israel do exactly the same (which you endorse fully) it isn't. Shock and Awe was not aimed at taking out any Iraqi regime leaders it was about striking fear into ordinary Iraqis in order to encourage them to rebel and rise up against the Hussein regime, Bush and Blair sent in B-52's to carpet bomb residential areas of the city, 26000 perished in these actions so while I support America taking out a restaurant in the hunt for a senior regime figure I do not support the levelling of entire residential areas when there was no regime or military targets in those areas. If I had my way Bush and Blair would be swinging from the same gallows as Hussein it was pre meditated mass murder with no intent of taking out regime leaders
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