The aim of prison should be to ensure that people leave as a better person than they were when they went in. That can't be achieved in a six month sentence. That's why the Lib Dems are right to say that short prison sentences are normally (note normally, not always) a bad idea. This is one area where the government are showing signs of basing their policy on evidence rather than hysterical tabloid prejudice.

 

Full marks to follow over the weekend.

 

Prison to me though should be 65% punishment and 35% reform

 

The best way to reform someone is to make prison so tough that the criminal literally soils their boxers at the thought of going back to prison, that the criminal is shaking like a leaf when the police knock up as opposed to the current bragging about it to their mates.

 

A criminal who upon release genuinely wants to reform should be encouraged and even helped but prison itself is too soft

 

Jon Venables has a 36" plasma tv in his cell and a PS3, wtf ? prison is Butlins with bars atm and that needs changing drastically as there is no incentive for a criminal to reform.

 

Prison should involve 6am squarebashing and exercise, 8 hrs a day minimum of hard work, 3-4 hours of education, meals and living conditions that fall in line with the basics of the Geneva Convention, no tv's and games consoles in cells, a tough harsh regime that makes the criminal scared to come back

Unless you're a lot older than I think, that's not saying much. This is only the third change of government in 31 years.

True. It's not saying much given the stupidity and corruption that has been dished out from the previous decades. But who would of thought that moves could have gone this far in 100 days already? Very few I expect.

True. It's not saying much given the stupidity and corruption that has been dished out from the previous decades. But who would of thought that moves could have gone this far in 100 days already? Very few I expect.

 

I am generally encouraged by the start they have made, I don't feel they have gone far enough in many areas like welfare reform, foreign aid, NHS bureaucracy, nuclear weapons etc but things are heading in the right direction

Prison to me though should be 65% punishment and 35% reform

 

The best way to reform someone is to make prison so tough that the criminal literally soils their boxers at the thought of going back to prison, that the criminal is shaking like a leaf when the police knock up as opposed to the current bragging about it to their mates.

 

A criminal who upon release genuinely wants to reform should be encouraged and even helped but prison itself is too soft

 

Jon Venables has a 36" plasma tv in his cell and a PS3, wtf ? prison is Butlins with bars atm and that needs changing drastically as there is no incentive for a criminal to reform.

 

Prison should involve 6am squarebashing and exercise, 8 hrs a day minimum of hard work, 3-4 hours of education, meals and living conditions that fall in line with the basics of the Geneva Convention, no tv's and games consoles in cells, a tough harsh regime that makes the criminal scared to come back

He doesn't though? Have you ever ACTUALLY been to a prison? They aren't the soft 'Butlins with bars' places you imagine them to be - they're pretty grim, boring places. Certainly not attractive places to go to.

 

The best way to reform someone is to show that there is still a place for them in society, rather than 'lock 'em up and throw away the key'. Why do you think reoffending rates are so low in Scandinavia?

I am generally encouraged by the start they have made, I don't feel they have gone far enough in many areas like welfare reform, foreign aid, NHS bureaucracy, nuclear weapons etc but things are heading in the right direction

I was going to comment on the NHS part but didn't however I do know that NHS bureaucracy has improved internally at the top levels. Nothing has been shown externally yet but it is on it's way.

What do you think can be done with foreign aid and why is that an issue now? First deal with the big things and get into the minor things later.

He doesn't though? Have you ever ACTUALLY been to a prison? They aren't the soft 'Butlins with bars' places you imagine them to be - they're pretty grim, boring places. Certainly not attractive places to go to.

 

The best way to reform someone is to show that there is still a place for them in society, rather than 'lock 'em up and throw away the key'. Why do you think reoffending rates are so low in Scandinavia?

Precisely. There are plenty of non custodial alternatives which might seem soft to some people but which have much lower reoffending rates than prison sentences.

He doesn't though? Have you ever ACTUALLY been to a prison? They aren't the soft 'Butlins with bars' places you imagine them to be - they're pretty grim, boring places. Certainly not attractive places to go to.

 

The best way to reform someone is to show that there is still a place for them in society, rather than 'lock 'em up and throw away the key'. Why do you think reoffending rates are so low in Scandinavia?

 

Those that do genuinely want help and are showing a desire to reform I am all for helping, they are not the target, I am all for giving people a second chance, just not a third.

 

My target is the repeat offenders, the ones that keep committing crimes when on bail, when on community orders, when on probation etc etc, they need a tough dose of prison to shock them into going straight.

Prison to me though should be 65% punishment and 35% reform

 

The best way to reform someone is to make prison so tough that the criminal literally soils their boxers at the thought of going back to prison, that the criminal is shaking like a leaf when the police knock up as opposed to the current bragging about it to their mates.

 

A criminal who upon release genuinely wants to reform should be encouraged and even helped but prison itself is too soft

 

Jon Venables has a 36" plasma tv in his cell and a PS3, wtf ? prison is Butlins with bars atm and that needs changing drastically as there is no incentive for a criminal to reform.

 

Prison should involve 6am squarebashing and exercise, 8 hrs a day minimum of hard work, 3-4 hours of education, meals and living conditions that fall in line with the basics of the Geneva Convention, no tv's and games consoles in cells, a tough harsh regime that makes the criminal scared to come back

I think you have a rather extreme punishment view there. I don't know anyone else that comes near that thinking. This is your crime culture where you have a knife under your pillow because you are so paranoid?

I do however know several people who worked in prisons and they are of the opinion that it should be 100% reform and 0% punishment. That way you get few repeat offenders, and costs a lot less to society directly and less prison costs also.

I was going to comment on the NHS part but didn't however I do know that NHS bureaucracy has improved internally at the top levels. Nothing has been shown externally yet but it is on it's way.

What do you think can be done with foreign aid and why is that an issue now? First deal with the big things and get into the minor things later.

 

Foreign aid was one of the 2 areas that were ringfenced by the government to be exempt from cuts which I am utterly opposed to.

 

It is ridiculous that we are giving huge amounts of aid each year to places like China, China is a superpower now, one of the worlds most powerful economies, the country that owns much of America's debt, the country that is going to be the worlds dominant economy in the next decade or two and we are giving them aid, India get substantial aid, India has more billionaires thanany country in the world than America, India is a thriving tiger economy why does it need aid ?

 

Africa is a lost cause, a wasteland of corruption, vile dictatorships etc yet we are continually throwing good money after bad at a problem and a region that is irrepairable.

 

Foreign aid should be scrapped altogether and the money spent on UK causes, the only exceptions should be aid being given in return for British firms being awarded contracts so that we are getting something in return.

 

it is to me outrageous that Britons are having to be hit hard in the pocket yet foreign aid is exempt from cuts.

 

 

Foreign aid was one of the 2 areas that were ringfenced by the government to be exempt from cuts which I am utterly opposed to.

 

It is ridiculous that we are giving huge amounts of aid each year to places like China, China is a superpower now, one of the worlds most powerful economies, the country that owns much of America's debt, the country that is going to be the worlds dominant economy in the next decade or two and we are giving them aid, India get substantial aid, India has more billionaires thanany country in the world than America, India is a thriving tiger economy why does it need aid ?

 

Africa is a lost cause, a wasteland of corruption, vile dictatorships etc yet we are continually throwing good money after bad at a problem and a region that is irrepairable.

 

Foreign aid should be scrapped altogether and the money spent on UK causes, the only exceptions should be aid being given in return for British firms being awarded contracts so that we are getting something in return.

 

it is to me outrageous that Britons are having to be hit hard in the pocket yet foreign aid is exempt from cuts.

 

I would get into the humanistic side of the argument with you, but I've got a horrible feeling it will end with you proposing Pakistanis should be culled.

 

What I will say is though, you realise it will actually help us in the long run if we develop the THird World nations? It would do immense things for our trading prospects.

Those that do genuinely want help and are showing a desire to reform I am all for helping, they are not the target, I am all for giving people a second chance, just not a third.

 

My target is the repeat offenders, the ones that keep committing crimes when on bail, when on community orders, when on probation etc etc, they need a tough dose of prison to shock them into going straight.

The tougher you treat them the more they are immune. All you are doing is creating more hardened criminals.

Foreign aid was one of the 2 areas that were ringfenced by the government to be exempt from cuts which I am utterly opposed to.

 

It is ridiculous that we are giving huge amounts of aid each year to places like China, China is a superpower now, one of the worlds most powerful economies, the country that owns much of America's debt, the country that is going to be the worlds dominant economy in the next decade or two and we are giving them aid, India get substantial aid, India has more billionaires thanany country in the world than America, India is a thriving tiger economy why does it need aid ?

 

Africa is a lost cause, a wasteland of corruption, vile dictatorships etc yet we are continually throwing good money after bad at a problem and a region that is irrepairable.

 

Foreign aid should be scrapped altogether and the money spent on UK causes, the only exceptions should be aid being given in return for British firms being awarded contracts so that we are getting something in return.

 

it is to me outrageous that Britons are having to be hit hard in the pocket yet foreign aid is exempt from cuts.

1 - IS any aid going towards China?

2 - Uh, it has more billionaires than any country in the world America aside, but it's also the one of the most inequal countries in the world. Why? Because the billionaires pay barely any tax to help lift the poor out of their trap. Sounds like your idea of heaven, all we need to do is cut off the aid!

I would get into the humanistic side of the argument with you, but I've got a horrible feeling it will end with you proposing Pakistanis should be culled.

 

What I will say is though, you realise it will actually help us in the long run if we develop the THird World nations? It would do immense things for our trading prospects.

 

And get banned again ? no chance ;)

 

But we have tried the humanistic route in Africa, massive appeals, 2 major charity concerts, the best selling record of all time yet the problem is getting worse and worse, despite Live Aid, Band Aid, Live 8 etc etc the problems in Sudan and Ethiopia are WORSE now than ever so there does come a point where you just think they are unlucky f***s and question whether it is worth throwing more and more money at something that is just getting worse.

 

The only way of sorting out even the basics in Africa is toppling the dictatorships, jailing and executing all the corrupt officials, a massive continent wide education program especially sex education, introducing continent wide organic farming and crops that are immune from weather, so we are effectively talking about turning Africa colonial again and having the continent under white western rule, I am not convinced that that would go down too well with the human rights brigade or even the Africans themselves.

 

Lost cause Africa is, sorry

Edited August 20, 201014 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber

And get banned again ? no chance ;)

 

But we have tried the humanistic route in Africa, massive appeals, 2 major charity concerts, the best selling record of all time yet the problem is getting worse and worse, despite Live Aid, Band Aid, Live 8 etc etc the problems in Sudan and Ethiopia are WORSE now than ever so there does come a point where you just think they are unlucky f***s and question whether it is worth throwing more and more money at something that is just getting worse.

 

The only way of sorting out even the basics in Africa is toppling the dictatorships, jailing and executing all the corrupt officials, a massive continent wide education program especially sex education, introducing continent wide organic farming and crops that are immune from weather, so we are effectively talking about turning Africa colonial again and having the continent under white western rule, I am not convinced that that would go down too well with the human rights brigade or even the Africans themselves.

 

Lost cause Africa is, sorry

Really? Things are better than ever in Africa, mainly because the mineral wealth is being bought up by the Chinese, hence infrastructure growth. Africa isn't a lost cause - we just need to fund INFRASTRUCTURE projects.

Foreign aid was one of the 2 areas that were ringfenced by the government to be exempt from cuts which I am utterly opposed to.

 

It is ridiculous that we are giving huge amounts of aid each year to places like China, China is a superpower now, one of the worlds most powerful economies, the country that owns much of America's debt, the country that is going to be the worlds dominant economy in the next decade or two and we are giving them aid, India get substantial aid, India has more billionaires thanany country in the world than America, India is a thriving tiger economy why does it need aid ?

 

Africa is a lost cause, a wasteland of corruption, vile dictatorships etc

 

Less then 0.4% of total spending so it's not huge and that includes BBC world service, UN subscription, embassy's and foreign diplomats.

 

 

Edit:correct calculation

Edited August 21, 201014 yr by Ricky

And get banned again ? no chance ;)

 

But we have tried the humanistic route in Africa, massive appeals, 2 major charity concerts, the best selling record of all time yet the problem is getting worse and worse, despite Live Aid, Band Aid, Live 8 etc etc the problems in Sudan and Ethiopia are WORSE now than ever so there does come a point where you just think they are unlucky f***s and question whether it is worth throwing more and more money at something that is just getting worse.

Wrong again. The best selling single of all time in the UK is that awful version of Candle In The Wind.

 

I'll respond to the rest of your nonsense when I'm more sober.

1 - IS any aid going towards China?

Yes, and rightly so imo. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7938786.stm

 

 

Lost cause Africa is, sorry

How ignorant!

I've got a horrible feeling it will end with you proposing Pakistanis should be culled.

 

Going back to Pakistan again and the issue of aid I see precious little aid coming from the muslim world for the flooding yet again its the west and particularly us and America who seem to be giving all the aid and money, Pakistan is a muslim nation so the muslim world should be paying for the relief, the likes of Saudi Arabia, Libya, the UAE etc are rolling in money yet we are the ones who are helping out their "brothers" while the muslim world twiddles its thumbs.

Going back to Pakistan again and the issue of aid I see precious little aid coming from the muslim world for the flooding yet again its the west and particularly us and America who seem to be giving all the aid and money, Pakistan is a muslim nation so the muslim world should be paying for the relief, the likes of Saudi Arabia, Libya, the UAE etc are rolling in money yet we are the ones who are helping out their "brothers" while the muslim world twiddles its thumbs.

After being criticised for not giving enough, Saudi Arabia have now given a fairly substantial sum.

After being criticised for not giving enough, Saudi Arabia have now given a fairly substantial sum.

 

Yeah that's what I mean, they were guilt tripped into doing it when infact they should be doing it in the first place along with the rest of the muslim world.

 

I have no objection to us providing doctors, nurses, medicines etc but the muslim world should pay for the bulk of the relief efforts.